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Kenya imewekeza kuzipita tz and ug mbali sana.

Discussion in 'Kenyan News and Politics' started by Mwana wa Mungu, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. Mwana wa Mungu

    Mwana wa Mungu JF-Expert Member

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    Jamani, nafikiri sote tulisikia ile taarifa iliyotolewa juzi, kuwa hapa east Africa, wenzetu wakenya wameibuka kidedea kwasababu wanafanya mambo ya kueleweka wakavutia uwekezaji unaofikia shilingi za tz kama trilion 5, hapa tz tumevutia uwekezaji wakaja watu kuwekeza kama bilion 700 tu, uganda ndo kabisaa, bilioni sijui 100?...hahaha, sasa hivi maneno mengi ya sisi wabongo yanatufikisha wapi? mbona wenzetu wanatupiga magepu ya kufa mtu kiasi hiki? mnafikiri tufanye nini? au ninyi wenzangu hata hamshituki aibu hii...duh!
     
  2. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Inasikitisha sana wananchi wa Tanzania tunapoletewa majaribu yenye habari hewa kama hii, binafsi I would rather have uchumi ambao unachechemea kama wetu bongo, lakini unawashirikisha kimanufaa wananchi walio wengi, kuliko ule wa Kenya ambao ni Conditioned Economy, kama wa South Africa,

    Yaani on the papers nchi ni tajiri sana, lakini wananchi ni masikini tena wanaolala kwenye ma-box, kule vitongoji vya Nairobi na Soweto, najua bongo tuna matatizo mengi ya kiuchumi, ila so far bado sijamuona mwananchi wa bongo anayeishi kwenye nyumba ya ma-box, infact hata mara ya mwisho nilipokuwa Rio, Brazil I was shocked kukuta hata huko nako kuna wananchi wanaoshi kwenye ma-box!

    Mungu Aibariki Tanzania Yetu!
     
  3. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu FMES unaishi sehemu gani ya Bongo? tembea ndugu yangu utashuhudia watu wanaolala kwenye maboksi.
    Anyway, mimi sioni kama hata uchumi wetu huu unawasaidia sana watu wa chini. Kumbuka kuwa hata serikali yenyewe inakiri kuwa kilichoimarika ni macro economy, ambao manufaa yake kwa watu wa chini si makubwa sana. We are now struggling kukuza micro economy ili gains za macro economy zije kwa watu wa kawaida. lakini nadhani inakuwa vigumu kutokana na ufisadi mkubwa uliofanyika kwa sababu macro economy ilishatabilze tangu enzi za Mkapa
     
  4. Mwawado

    Mwawado JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu hiyo sehemu inaitwa KIBERA...Usisikie kabisa maisha hapo mahali ni ya chini mno na kila siku foreign journalists wapo hapo na makamera yao makubwa ...kupiga picha kuonyesha ni vipi Africa tu masikini...Watoto wadogo wanatembea bila nguo kwenye malundo ya takataka kutafuta chakula....Kule kwetu Tandale/Uwanja wa Fisi kuna afadhali mno.

    Mimi nafikiri hiyo akili ya uwekezaji iinue maisha ya mwananchi mmoja mmoja badala ya kunufaisha Mafisadi wachache.Ndio maana mpaka leo namuheshimu Mwalimu aliyejaribu kujali maisha ya mkulima na mfanyakazi wa kawaida,kwa kumpatia Huduma muhimu (Elimu,Afya,Maji etc) kwa gharama nafuu.
     
  5. K

    Kithuku JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 27, 2008
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    Ipo nyingine pia inaitwa Mathare, nako ni balaa. Kwa ujumla ni asilimia karibu 3% tu ya wananchi wa Kenya wanadhibiti zaidi ya 90% ya uchumi wa nchi! Huko Marekani hali kama hii imewaathiri sana na mmesikia hizi habari za financial crisis, Bush anashawishi congress iidhinishe fedha "to bail out" mashirika yanayofilisika,maana yakidondoka hayo ni uchumi wa nchi nzima uko hatarini. Ni hatari sana kuwa na kundi la watu wachache kumiliki uchumi wa nchi.
     
  6. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    1.
    2.
    Sawa sawa, ni kweli kuna wananchi kwenye some areas bongo wanaishi kwenye ma-box, lakini kuna tofauti kubwa sana na wenzetu kwenye hizo nchi za Kenya na Brazil,

    Wananchi ninaiowaona bongo, wakiishi kwenye ma-box, ninaamini wengi wao ni wale vijana wanaozurura mijini, na hili tatizo lilifumuka under utawala wa Mkapa siamini kwamba ni makazi yao maalum, kwa vizazi na vizazi vyao, kama Kenya na Brazil, au?
     
  7. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #7
    Sep 27, 2008
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    FMES,Mwawado,Kithuku,

    ..mimi nina imani kwamba tukijitahidi tunaweza kuwa na uwekezaji unaonufaisha wananchi walio wengi na taifa kwa ujumla.

    ..sidhani kama mtoa hoja ana maanisha tushindane na Kenya hata ktk mambo mabaya kama kuenea kwa slums.


    NB:

    ..matatizo yanayotokea USA hayahusiani sana masuala ya umiliki, au sera za Ujamaa/Ubepari, bali uzembe, choyo, tamaa, na ubadhirifu.

    ..Tanzania tulikuwa ni wajamaa na uchumi ulikuwa unamilikiwa na serikali/umma/wananchi lakini hilo halikuzuia Uchumi wetu usiporomoke.
     
  8. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu naomba darasa hapo zaidi, mimi nilifikiri kwamba matatizo ya US sasa hivi yametokana na serikali yenye mfumo wa kibepari under Clinton, kujaribu kutumia itikadi za kijamaaa kwa kurahisisha masharti ya mikopo ili wananchi wengi wa hali ya chini waweze kumiliki rasilimali za taifa lao, au?
     
  9. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #9
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    FMES,

    ..kwanza tukikiendelea hapa tutaharibu mada.

    ..halafu kuna wataalamu wa suala hili mfano GAME THEORY ambao hata mimi hufyonza elimu toka kwao.

    ..walalahoi walifikiri wataweza ku-afford adjustable rate morgages. sasa interest rates zimepanda mno, hivyohivyo monthly payments zimepanda, sasa walalahoi wanashindwa kuishi kwenye majumba yao.

    ..in a short run mabenki[share holders] yalifaidika na walalahoi walipata nyumba. lakini in a long run hii kitu imekuwa hasara tupu--kwa mabenki[share holders] na walalahoi.

    NB:

    ..hata Bongo si tulikuwa na Tanzania Housing Bank. lakini ilikufa kutokana na wananchi kutokurudisha mikopo ya nyumba.
     
  10. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 27, 2008
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    FMES
    Tatizo la sasa halikutokana na sera za Clinton. Limetokana na greed. Ukiona kwenye mortgage bei za nyumba zilipoanza kupanda wenye pesa wakalainisha masharti ya kutolewa mikopo kwa hiyo hata wale waliokuwa na uwezo mdogo wa kununua nyumba wakazinunua tena za bei za juu kwa riba ya udanganyifu. Unaanza na riba ya 5% kwa miaka miwili ya kwanza na riba kuruka hadi 10.5% na zaidi baada ya hapo. Wengi wakajikuta hawawezi kulipia monthly. Hata kwenye soko la hisa lilikuwa hivyo hivyo. Sasa watu wakashindwa kulipia nyumba na na kwa sababu bei za nyumba zilipokuwa zinapanda wajenzi waliendelea kujenga nyumba mpya as if there was no tomorrow. Sasa soko likajikuta lina nyumba mpya zisizonunuliwa na wale walionunua nyumba za riba za udanganyifu wakajikuta na mijumba wasiyoweza kulipia. Ndio maana Obama anamlaumu Mc Cain kwa sababu yeye na Republicans wenzake walipinga kuwepo regulations za kusimamia haya masoko ya hisa na fedha ( deregulation) Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
     
  11. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu unajua jana nimeona Clinton akihojiwa na Matt Lauer na akikubali kuwa hoja kwamba yeye ndiye mhusika mkuu wa hili soo ni kweli, ingawa baadaye akajarib u ku-spin kwamba yeye aliona Freddie wakitengeneza hela nyingi sana on a surplus level kwa hiyo akaamua kua why not help the poor,

    Akajaribu na ku-fail miserably kuhamishia lawama kwa serikali ya sasa kuwa walikuwa wazembe kwenye ku-regulate Wall Street, anyways, mimi sina ujuzi sana na uchumi, ingawa I call my self a capitalists ninachojua ni one thing tu kwamba under Clinton mafuta yalikuwa ni 99c a gallon, that will never happen again,

    Lakini ahsante sana kwa hilo darasa.
     
  12. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #12
    Sep 29, 2008
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    Wakuu wotwe hapo juu,salute kwa lecture kali,

    However,sasa huu mjadala wetu na hawa wakenya wanavyo-make,shida yetu ni nini hasa? Leo hii Tanzania ilitakiwa iwe imetenga bajeti kubwa kwenye inrastructure na kujenga viwanda wvikubwa vya ndani bila hivyo hawa wakenya wataendelea kutufanya soko lao na kitu ambacho kinanitia uchungu ni hawa watawala kujifanya viziwi on this issue.Ndiyo maana natamani mapinduzi Tanzania
     
  13. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

    #13
    Sep 29, 2008
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    Wakuu,

    Kama mnakumbuka topic ya industrialisation, unajua kua those kind
    of developments zinaambatana na ile kitu inaitwa "Rural-Urban Migration".
    A major consequent of this thing ni kwamba watu wanakimbilia mijini kutafuta kazi na in the initial stages everything looks OK but once hizo employment
    situation zinapo-saturate basi problems of overcrowding na lack of housing
    zinafutia....From there inabidi serikali yoyote ile iwe na mipango kabambe ya kuthibiti this thing.Unfortunately all LDC's are guilty of mishandling the situation na nd'o maana hao wanaoishi katika maboksi wanaonekana.

    Tafakari kidogo Bongo na utaona kua uchumi bado changa na with time
    those issues mnazoongelea kuhusu Brazil na Kenya mtaziona hapo Bongo laivu.
    Unajua Brazil wanakua considered a developed Nation na pia wana nuclear capababilities?...Je mbona omba omba na malaya tele?..Capitalism and Industrialization has its ills and they cant be unmasked.

    Hata humu Marekani kuna wanaishi kwenye maboksi na pia homeless kibao!!!
    Lakini wanawaficha na kuwa-take care kimpango.Bongo tayari ishauzwa kwa
    wahindi na mafisadi, unadhani tutakwepa hilo?...Sidhani.Give it time and we will be back here talking about it and where did the wind start beating us?

    Zangu hamsini hizo.
     
  14. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo kwa watanzania wakati mwingine tuna blahblah nyingi za kisiasa kuliko matendo. Wakenya wanapoamua kufanya biashara wanafanya biashara kweli na hawaingizi siasa humo.
    Pia, hapa TZ tuna ile kitu inaitwa inferiority complex. Tumeshaanza kuonyesha woga dhidi ya wakenya tangu zamani, na hii haikuanzia kwa watu wa chini, walianza tangu viongozi wetu na ndio waliowajaza watu hofu na woga.
     
  15. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu naheshimu nondo zako daima. Na wala sistahili kukupinga..ila naomba nitofautiane na wewe hapa..

    Sidhani kama hapa ulikuwa genuine NA HIYO KAULI YAKO HAPO JUU. . Umejaribu kuwa defensive lakini ukweli unabaki pale pale. Manufaa yapi hayo unayoyaongelea? you mean mwananchi wa kawaida Tanzania yuko better off, kuliko wa Kenya? au tunarudi kwenye ule wimbo wetu wa kudumu..Amani na utulivu? By all measures ziwe za UNDP, WB, IMF nk..ukweli unaujua kipato cha Mkenya na MTZ ni tofauti...

    Watanzania uchumi wetu hauwezi kushindana na wakenya. Thats the bitter truth. Tunaweza kuspin kwamba uchumi wa kenya ni mkubwa lakini haunufaishi wengi, wakati sisi wa Tanzania tunajua hakika uchumi wetu infact unanufaisha wachache kuliko hata Kenya. Sasa kipi bora uwe na uchumi wa Kenya mkubwa ambao uko mikononi mwa 3% au uwe na uchumi wa kuchechemea wa Tanzania ambao vile vile umo mikononi mwa 2%?

    Tanzania tuna potential kubwa sana, lakini nadhani watanzania wenzetu especially viongozi wetu ni wanafiki na walafi (greedy) kuliko wakenya. Kibaya ni kwamba wanajimask kwenye amani na upole. I am a proud African FIRST and then Tanzanian, nafurahi sana nikiona nchi ya kiafrika kama Kenya inavyopiga hatua despite madudu na rushwa kwa wachache, nafurahi ninapokuwa Paris au London nikapanda KQ as an African ni jambo la kujivunia sana ukiona mwafrika mwenzako anasonga mbele. siwezi kufurahia KLM..simply because KQ ni ya muafrika mwenzangu...personally nikiwa JKIA nikiona ile traffic ya ndege zinavyopishana..nikicompare na hapa kwetu DIA..lazima niappreciate juhudi za wenzetu maana najua..haya mambo hayakuja overnight..watu walifanya na wanafanya kazi kwa bidii!

    Ile mentality ya afadhali wote tukose, mimi sina na naona ndilo jambo kubwa waafrika na watanzania tulilonalo! Kama hutimizi wajibu wako..anayetimiza wa kwake..ATAKUPITA tuu..whether you like it or not! Tanzanians can spin it the way they want..lakini hakika wakenya wanajitahidi mno! against all odds, za ukabila, chuki, rushwa, ubinafsi..wameweza kufanya makubwa kuliko sisi tunaoimba kisiwa cha amani kila siku..

    Kwa hiyo kikubwa, ni kukaa chini tuangalie tulijikwaa wapi..na wala siyo tulipoangukia! Hakuna Uchumi uliokamilifu kwamba utawainua WOTE labda zile ndoto za mzee wetu Kambarage ambazo na yeye baadaye alikiri kwamba hazikuwa sahihi. Tuangalie tunaweza kushirikiana na wakenya, waganda, waburundi, warwanda wapi tuweze kuinuana..hizi nyimbo za amani na utulivu ni kudanganyana...zitakuwa na maana endapo tutazitumia kuboresha maisha ya watu wetu.

    Watanzania wenzangu tuache longo longo! Hii "roho ya kwa nini" na "heri tukose wote"...tuachane nayo..haifai..tupige mzigo tuu, kitaeleweka!

    Tuwaangalie wakenya kwa makini, perhaps we have one or two things we can learn from them!
     
  16. Manda

    Manda JF-Expert Member

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    Kenya tukumbuke they have been a capitalist economy country since ever, kwaio jamaa to be honest wamejiimarisha kiuchumi(In terms of GDP/GNP) zaidi yetu.

    Lakini always Economic Development doesnt mean sustainable human development, kitu ambacho Kenya wanakikosa, lucky i ve been in Kenya, Uganda na Tz as my home country, lakini still pamoja na Kenya kuwa mbali kiuchumi zaidi yetu, the vast of the majority are languishing in extreme poverty, ongelea Miundombinu, Huduma za Afya, Shule etc hawa jamaa tumewaacha mbali. Kama utapita Jommo Kenyatta Airport au Nairobi city you can prove me wrong lakini just go outside Nrb u will prove what i mean!

    Sera ya Mwalimu ya Ujamaa (ambayo imekufa ingawa we claim to adhere to), ilitupa fursa 'at least' ya kuwa na human sustainable development ambayo wenzetu across the region waliikosa. So far so bad, sisi si 'wajamaa' tena, the status quo proves that, na tunakoelekea ni kule kule kwa waKenya..yaani 'Ubepari', asa consequences za Ubepari ndio kama hizo ambazo tunaanza kuzi-feel, sio tuu katika national level but aslo at the International level as far as the country is concerned, kwamba tunatengeza Gap btn the haves and the have not!

    Cha kusikitisha zaidi sijaona jitiada za makusudi kurekebisha hilo, its a timing bomb kwetu na sio mda mrefu na sisi tutakuwa na our own 'KIBERA'!....its the matter of time!
     
  17. M

    MkamaP JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna cha kuvutia wawekezaji sisi ndio tufanye uwekezaji.
    Hizi propaganda za west tutazikumbatia mpaka lini? Mimi nadhani tunachohitaji ni kila mtanzania aishi maisha ya wastani hicho ndicho kikubwa, hayo mambo yenu sijui ya macro ama micro economics sisi kama wananchi hatuyahitaji, sisi tunachohitaji ni huduma bora maji,afya,maradhi nk.
     
  18. Kibunango

    Kibunango JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]
    Uzuri wa Bongo kila mna ana nafasi ya kujenga kutokana na kipato chake.
     
  19. Songambele

    Songambele JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Sep 29, 2008
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    Uwekezaji uendane na nani hasa anawekeza kuliko kuzungumzia kwa ujmla wake, hata kama uganda uwekezaji wao ni billioni 100 inawezekana ukawa uwekezaji bora kuliko Trillioni za wakenya ambazo zimewekezwa na wahindi na wazungu ambazo wanazitumia kuwanyonya wenyeji.

    Binafsi hali ya uchumi wa Kenya na Tanzania naona zinafanana tu isipokuwa Kenya ilitangulia kimaendeleo na Tanzania inakuja sasa. Wazalendo wanawekeza zaidi katika Bar za chini ya mwembe manake hata Macasino Kenya ni ya Wahindi. Wazalendo wanapombeka na kuwa vicheche sanasana waliondelea wanafanya kazi za ukarani (kufanya kazi ofisini na katika mabenki) na uchuuzi mdogo mdogo usio na tija.

    Super market za Nakumatti za wahindi, makampuni ya simu wenyewe wanafahamika waswahili ni ukurugenzi, umeneja, uhasibu n.k (Ukarani tu) au haya ni maendeleo kwenu. Mafisadi wa serikali ndio wanajenga majengo marefu ni sawa na hapa bongo.

    Nenda Florida(Madhouse), simens, katika macasino na kibera ukaone waswahili kazi yao ni nini! Takwimu hizo ni kwa faida ya wageni. uwekezaji bado hauwanufaishi wananchi wa kawaida labda kufunga Tai na kuvaa suti faida wanakula wadosi. Sasa kama Uganda uwekezaji ni mdogo lakini wanawekeza wazalendo ni bora kuliko uchumi fake wa Kenya na Tanzania.
     
  20. PatPending

    PatPending JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 30, 2008
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    Before people reach for the panic button and jump on the blame wagon, it is worth noting that the figures presented are for the financial year that incidentally coincided with one of the largest initial public offerings in Africa, Safaricom's. Tanzania's attraction of FDI has been both consistent and sound and it is still growing. It will be interesting to see the same figures following this financial year.
     
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