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Kazi ya Mashushushu si Kuhujumu Uchaguzi

Discussion in 'Uchaguzi Tanzania' started by KULIKONI UGHAIB, Oct 22, 2010.

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  1. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Oct 22, 2010
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    Makala ifuatayo imechapishwa katika toleo la wiki hii la jarida la Raia Mwema ikiwa ni majibu kwa makala yangu katika toleo la wiki iliyopita iliyokuwa na kichwa cha habari "Ni Kweli Mashushushu Huhujumu Uchaguzi?" (Bonyeza HAPA kuisoma)."Raia" mmoja aliguswa na makala hiyo na anaijibu kama inavyosomeka hapo chini


    Ningeweza kuandika makala nzima kumjibu "raia mwema" huyu lakini nimeonelea bora kuileta hapa barazani.Of course,kazi mashushushu si kuhujumu uchaguzi kama ambavyo kazi ya JWTZ si kujishughulisha na miradi ya uchimbaji dhahabu (refer Meremeta,etc).Kadhalika,kazi ya serikali si kuwaruhusu watu wakwapue fedha za EPA kisha iwasihi warejeshe,na kazi ya Mhariri wa gazeti la serikali Daily News si utabiri wa matokeo ya uchaguzi wakati hata kura hazijapigwa...My point is,suala sio duties and responsibilities za mtu au taasisi ni zipi bali namna zinavyotekelezwa.

    Sina tatizo na "raia mwema" huyo kutumia muda wa kutosha kumjadili mtoa hoja badala ya kujadili hoja husika.Ex-US President George Bush aliwahi kusema ukiongea jambo kisha likaafikiwa au kupingwa then lina mantiki kwani lingekuwa la ovyo ovyo nani angepoteza muda japo kulitaja?

    Well,nawasilisha hapa where we dare speak openly
     
  2. P

    Proud Patriot JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 22, 2010
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    I am honoured to be the first one to comment on this post,i think the poster (something ughaibuni) is trying to make a crucial point but some naive,dull-minded, and ill-willed individual who think inside the box don't realise...and i can undoubtedly say that "Mr. Raia Mwema" (surprisingly) is a typical example of such persons!?

    I just read the the 1st few phases of his post to you and for the 1st time in my life i felt comfortable to judge a book by it's cover,i mean that he's making vague arguments....before he can start to prove me wrong he should find a quiet place and TAFAKARI what you just told him:

    Kazi ya serikali si kuwaruhusu watu wakwapue fedha za EPA kisha iwasihi warejeshe, na kazi ya Mhariri wa gazeti la serikali (Daily News) si utabiri wa matokeo ya uchaguzi wakati hata kura hazijapigwa...
     
  3. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Oct 22, 2010
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    Nimesoma makala yako nafikiri ina walakini. Umesema kuwa wewe binafsi una ufahamu wa kutosha kuhusu masuala ya Usalama wa Taifa. Umepata ufahamu huu kwenye jitihada zako za kujiendeleza kitaaluma, ambapo umefanikiwa kusoma kwa undani kuhusu fani ya usalama wa kimataifa.

    Kwanza umeshindwa kabisa kutofautisha kati ya kusomea taaluma na kuifanyia kazi. Ni vitu viwili tafauti hivyo. Pili, kuna tofauti kati ya usalama wa kimataifa na usalama wa taifa. Wewe unadai umesomea usalama wa kimataifa, kwa hiyo sidhani kama una uzoefu wowote na usalama wa taifa. Ni sawa na mtu aliyesoma sheria au siasa za kimataifa (International law/politics) halafu aseme hili litamfanya pia azijue sheria/siasa za kitaifa (domestic law/politics). International security na national security ni spheres mbili tofauti japokuwa zinaweza ku-compliment each other.

    Kwenye makala yako pia umedai unaifahamu vizuri Idara ya Usalama wa Taifa ya Tanzania. Unaifahamu je? Unafanya kazi au ulishawahi kufanya kazi kwenye hiyo idara? Au kwa kwa vile umesome usalama wa kimataifa basi unaifahamu idara ya usalama moja kwa moja. Au labda umeipitia ile sheria ya usalama wa taifa basi uka-conclude kuwa unaijua idara hiyo? Unajichanganya sana kwenye makala yako. On one hand unasema unaijua vilivyo idara ya usalama wa taifa. On the other hand unasema, "kama ilivyo mahala pengine duniani, masuala ya usalama wa taifa yanabaki kuwa siri kubwa." Kama yanabaki kuwa siri kubwa, wewe umeijuaje hiyo idara?

    Kwenye makala yako pia umejaribu kutofautisha idara za usalama za nchi kama Marekani na Uingereza na ile ya Tanzania. Specifically, umesema kuwa "Taratibu za wenzetu zinawezesha taasisi zao za usalama kutotumia usiri wa fani yao kwa minajili tofauti na maslahi ya taifa. Kadhalika, taratibu hizo zinasaidia kuepusha taasisi hizo kutumika kwa maslahi ya vikundi fulani katika jamii au kwa minajili ya kisiasa; ilhali taasisi hizo hazipaswi kufungamana na chama chochote cha siasa."

    Nafikiri argument yako ni shallow na inaonyesha kuwa hujafanya utafiti wa kutosha juu ya idara za usalama wa taifa za hizo nchi ulizozitaja. Nakushauri kwa kuanzia na kabla ya kumjibu huyo mdau kafanye kwanza utafiti juu ya hii issue. Unaweza kuanza na kesi ya Binyam Mohamed labda utaweza kupata mwanga kama idara ya usalama ya Uingereza (M15) ilikuwa inaact kwa maslahi ya taifa lao.

    Ni baada tuu ya hayo ndio utaweza kuangalia vuzuri mwenendo mzima wa usalama wa taifa letu hivi sasa. Otherwise, utakuwa unaongelea kitu ambacho hukijui both kitaaluma na pia kikazi. Pia ningekushauri ukaisome vizuri ile sheria ya idara ya usalama wa taifa ya mwaka 1995 kama sijakosea, hasa sehemu ya nne angalao ujue kijuu juu kazi za idara hiyo kisheria maana inaonekana umeikabidhi majukumu yote ya nchi.

    Kwa maoni yangu nafikiri huyo mdau raia mwena amehoji vilivyo hoja zako na ni vizuri ukajibu hoja zake badala ya kutuletea tukusaidie. Kama alivyosema huyo mdau "Ukiyavulia nguo maji lazima uyakoge". mimi nafikiri ungemjibu kule kule badala ya huku. Also, ungejaribu kuandika kitaaluma na kuwa objective zaidi badala ya kujiassociate na upande mmoja. Nasema hivyo kwa sababu mtu ambaye ni neutral akisoma makala yako anajua within the first few sentences, kuwa unalalia upande gani.

    Kama kweli una taaluma ya usalama wa kimataifa, then andika kwa kutumia hiyo taaluma. Otherwise, kama unategemea msaada wa moani kama aliyotoa Proud Patriot hapo juu then, I am afraid to say utakuwa unajiaibisha wewe mwenyewe na taaluma yako.
     
  4. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Unajua ni rahisi kukosoa kuliko kuanzisha au kujenga hoja.Kwanini kabla hujakimbilia kukosoa ungefanya utafiti kidogo kuhusu unachoandika?Usalama wa taifa ni moja tu ya elements za usalama wa kimataifa.Global or International security ni eneo pana lakini kutegemea interest na concentration ya inquirer inawezekana ku-squeeze down to a single nation.Same applies to other academic fields,iwe sociology,international politics,international relations,etc.No research no righ to speak.Tafiti kwanza kisha urejee hapa kukosoa.

    Kuhusu uzoefu wa national security as a profession,silazimiki kueleza kama nina uzoefu au sina hasa kwa vile lengo la makala yangu sio kueleza wasifu wangu.You have every right to believe that I am just a naive person trying to explain something complex that I have no idea about.Those who were interested in the content and substance of the article would have probably gone father beyond the lens of examining the writer's profile.I strongly believe the so-called raia mwema knows me better
    Tatizo lako linaendelea kuwa kudadisi wasifu wangu badala ya kuangalia mantiki ya nilichoandika.Sina tatizo na wewe kutoafikiana nacho.Naifahamuje?That's none of your damn business.Suppose naifahamu beyond nilivyoeleza,would that convince you to agree with the article?

    Unayejichanganya ni wewe unaekurupuka kuuliza maswali ambayo majibu yake yamo kwenye makala husika lakini huwezi kuyaelewa kwa vile tatizo lako sio makala bali mwandishi.Kama niliwahi kufanya kazi huko au nimeielewa taasisi hiyo kutokana na kusoma masuala yanayohusiana na majukumu ya taasisi hiyo,au kwa kusoma sheria husika,what difference do that make to hoja zilizomo?Keep on guessing...
    Hadi hapo sijaona tatizo,or what you're trying to say

    Easier said than done.Likewise,it's easy for you to conclude that my argument was shallow only for you to come up with an even shallower one.Hivi kwa akili yako,ishu ya Binyam Mohammed,ina-relate vipi na,kwa mfano,udhaifu wa Idara yetu kuzuia wezi wa fedha za EPA?Au unataka kusema kuwa wizi huo uliachwa ufanyike kwa ajili ya maslahi ya taifa?
    Nani alikwambia kwamba tatizo la Tanzania,au Afrika kwa ujumla lipo kwenye sheria?Kwani IPTL,Kiwira,Richmond,Dowans,EPA,Meremeta,nk zilipotokea kulikuwa hakuna sheria za kuzuia matukio hayo?Kama una muda wa kupoteza,hangaika na kusoma sheria mbalimbali kisha ujiridhishe kuwa tuna sheria nzuri tu lakini tatizo lipo kwenye usimamizi na utekelezaji.Nikupe mfano mwepesi.Hivi unafahamu kuwa laiti sheria za ununuzi vifaa serikalini zingezingatiwa tusingeingizwa mkenge kwenye ishu ya Richmond?Sheria zilikuwepo,na zilibainisha waziwazi vipengere ambavyo matapeli wa Richmond hawaku-qualify lakini kuna sheria kubwa zaidi ya tamaa na ulafi wa mafisadi?

    I dont have to convince you kama naelewa kwa undani nilichoandika au naelewa juujuu.It wont make any difference,and I sually have no time with stuffs that dont make a difference.

    . Maoni yako sio universal.Tatizo lenu wepesi wa kukosoa ni kujimilikisha haki ya ujuzi na ufahamu wa kila kitu.Kama kwa maoni yako huyo jamaa amehoji vizuri,basi ni dhahiri kwa mawazo yangu (na pengine ya wengine wasionufaika na ufisadi) ni mwendelezo uleule wa kutetea mkono kwenda kinywani

    Who the f**k are you kunichagulia wapi pa kuweka post?Sikuweka hapa kwa minajili ya kusaidiwa kumjibu bali nimeposti hapa kama navyoposti ishu nyingine.Na hata ingekuwa nimeamua kumjibia hapa na sio kule kwanini iwe kule na sio hapa?

    Hayo ni mawazo ya kilevi.Sijui academic background yako,kwahiyo nashindwa kukupa jibu sahihi.Nadhani ushakia watu wanaoitwa functionalists,feminists,positivists,etc.Kama hujawahi kusikia basi hata nikikesha hapa mwaka mzima hutaelewa nachoandika.Hizo ni perspectives.Nina perspective yangu binafsi.Hate it or love it,it remains that way.Unachoita kuelemea upande mmoja is actually my perspective.Kama huna msimamo huwezi kutetea unachoamini.Kuna na msimamo sio sawa na ubaguzi.As long as msimamo unalindwa na hoja za kuusapoti,basi unaweza kusimama hadharani bila uoga na kusema huu ndio mtizamo wangu,na uko namna hii kwa sababu hii,na hii na ile.Tatizo lenu mmezowea kuridhisha kundi dogo la watu badala ya kuridhisha mahitaji ya jamii pana.Mnajiskia kama mkom peponi kuwalamba unyayo watawala alimradi mkirudi mtaani mjisifu.Hali kama hii ndio inayopelekea wanataaluma wa Redet na Synovate kuweka rehani reputations zao kuwaridhisha watawala.I was born free,and would never ever sell my dignity and freedom.

    WHo the **** are you kutoa maelekezo nani aandike nini na wapi?This is not Daily News au Habari Leo au Uhuru na Mzalendo.Kwanini hampendi kusikia mawazo tofauti na mnachoamini?Ukiogopa kujiaibisha utaendelea kuwa mtumwa milele.Wakati wewe unaficha jina, mwenzio nadiriki kuandika jina langu halisi,pamoja na contact details zangu (katika makala zangu) kwa vile sihofii kukosolewa, kuaibika au kuwachukiza watu flani. Huo unaitwa ujasiri.

    Siandiki ili niwe true patriot.Siandiki ili nipongezwe.Naandika nachoamini kuwa hata kama kitawakera watu flani lakini in long run kinaweza kuleta mabadiliko yanayokusudiwa.Kama true patriotism ni kutetea ufisadi,then let me remain a coward.

    And final word, huhitaji kuwa na ujuzi au uzoefu wa usalama wa taifa kutambua kuwa fedha za EPA ziliibiwa wakati taasisi hiyo ikiwa kazini. Richmond walituingiza mkenge wakati taasisi hiyo ikiwa kazini.....halafu wazembe kama wewe mnashauri tukasome Sheria Ya Usalama wa Taifa!
     
  5. b

    bitimkongwe JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Eeeh makubwa haya, yasije fika kuingiana maungoni!
     
  6. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Hatari lakini salama
     
  7. Mtazamaji

    Mtazamaji JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Nyie wenye info tuunamba mtujulishe kampuni gani ilishinda zabuni ya kutengeneza au kusuuply vifaa vya uchaguzi eg kama makaratasi ya kupigia kura, nk?

    Lakini nikirudi kwenye mada nadhani hawa wanausalama wanaweza kufanya kazi yeyote ile iwe nzuri au mbaya mbele ya jamii.

    wenyewe na taasisi yao na mabosi wakifanya analysis wakiona na "wakijiridhisha" ni kwa maslahi yataifa watafanya chochote kile.

    UKisoma soma kwenye mitandao utagundua sio haki na halali kulingisha CIA,KGB, na MI "X" na akina UWT.

    Kwa nchi kama Tanzania ambapo Chama bado kimeshika hatamu Institution nyingi na hii ya UWT bado haziko huru. Kutokuwa huru kunafanya hata hizo analysis ya operation na kazi zao kuwa biased ku suit chama au fulani na sioTaifa

    Kwa waliosoma IT watakubaliana nami kuna topic au somo linaitwa system development. Moja ya tatizo la system( computer system in this case) zinaztumika au zianzokuwa developed ni wazo au requirement ya mtu au watu wachache.

    Hili ni tatizo kubwa. "systems" iliyotengenzwa kwa request ya kukidhi matakwa ya mtu au kikundi cha watu bila kungalia "real requirement" ya organistaion zinaishia kuwa failure.Yule aliye reqesut system akiondokaa akija mwingine atahitaji mabadiliko kwenye ile system.System hizi haziwi failure kwa wale zinaokidhi matakwa yao.

    Mfano huo unaweza kutumika kelezea mapungufu ya Organisation system, structures na operation kwenye taasisi nyingi iwe ni NEC, UWT etc

    Kwa hiyo

    • Tunahitaji viongozi watakaobadilisha hizi system za hizi taasisi zetu.

    • Tunahitaji viongozi walio tayari kujipunguzia madaraka kiasi ili kuwepo na balance of power, Accountability na resposibility
    Observation yangu ni kuwa CCM hawako tayari kufanya haya.Ni oppostion ndo wamekuwa wanaadvocate for these key changes.

    VOTE OPPOSITION TO MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT MORE ACCOUNTABLE AND RESPONSIBLE
     
  8. M

    Mtaka Haki JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 23, 2010
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    Ninachotarajia mimi ni kwamba Idara ya Usalama wa Taifa haitamjibu mwandishi. Nililo na uhakika nalo ni kwamba itanyamaza bila kusema chochote.

    HII NI MIONGONI MWA MAKALA ZILIZONICHEKESHA SANA. Hapa mtu wa kawaida anaweza kuona kuwa aliyejibu ni wa usalama wa taifa kutokana na nilichonukuu hapa.
    Anatarajia kuwa Usalama wa taifa hautamjibu mwandishi. Pia ana uhakika kuwa itanyamaza bila kusema. Huo uhakika upatikanaje? Ni kutokana na yeye kuwa anaweza kutoa amri wasijibu?
    Pia amekasirishwa sana na UONGO WA DR. SLAA wa EPA? Ni uongo upi ambao anaonekana kukasirishwa nao. EPA was proven to be a fact, Richmond was proven to be a fact, Meremeta wa proven to be a fact ila ni "fact nyeti".
    Kagoda, RADA nk.
    Huo uongo wa Dr. Slaa ni upi?
    Mimi nadhani hapa kuna kichekesho kuwa tungeacha tu kuliko kujibu kwa kutoka nje ya hoja iliyotolewa na kushambulia ukweli tunaouita uongo.
     
  9. zumbemkuu

    zumbemkuu JF Bronze Member

    #9
    Oct 23, 2010
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    bilashaka kazi za mashushu zinakinzana, mashushu wanaweza wakawa wa aina 2, nawataja kwa mfano aina ya kwanza wawe wa serikali (bila kujali upande wowote wa chama au kiongozi), aina ya pili ni ya vyama vyenyewe kwa maslahi ya vyama vyao, lakini kwa wale mashushu wa serikali lazima kwa hali ya kibinadam kuwe na mgawanyiko wa kimaslahi, yaani wale ambao hawaegemei upande wowote na wale wenye maslahi na vyama husika, nawaslilisha.
     
  10. UmkhontoweSizwe

    UmkhontoweSizwe JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Haya ndo matatizo ya wasomi wetu. Badala ya kujadili hoja wao wanajadili umbeaumbea tu! Hoja ya msingi iliyoletwa na mwanzisha mada ilikuwa kudadisi kama idara ya usalama wa taifa inaweza kutumiwa kuhujumu matokeo ya uchaguzi, kama siyo upigaji wa kura wenyewe.
    Mjibuji badala ya kujibu hiyo hoja yeye akaamua kumfungia kibwebwe mleta hoja! Questioning who he is, what he knows/doesn't know, where he lives, if he has worked or not in the UWT doesn't make sense if you haven't answered his/her primary concern.
    Tutaachana lini na mambo hayo ya kufuatiliana personally ili tujibu hoja kwa hoja?
    Kuhusu hoja yenyewe kama UWT inaweza kutumika kuhujumu matokeo ya uchaguzi, nakubaliana na Mtazamaji hapo juu alivyosema kwamba;
    "Kwa nchi kama Tanzania ambapo Chama bado kimeshika hatamu Institution nyingi na hii ya UWT bado haziko huru. Kutokuwa huru kunafanya hata hizo analysis ya operation na kazi zao kuwa biased ku suit chama au fulani na sioTaifa"
    Mi nasema inawezekana kabisa. Tumeona idara nyingine eg. polisi jinsi zinavyotumiwa na upande mmoja (hasa walio madarakani) kuhujumu upande mwingine. Kwa nini ihindikane UWT kutumiwa?
     
  11. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Oct 23, 2010
    Joined: Jan 13, 2010
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    Whenever we are criticised for our arguments, it seems to invoke a negative image in our mind. Most of us tend to take it as an insult, discouraging, or offensive, and are unable to handle it easily. And yes, criticism can make a person nervous, mad, and defensive. I have seen people getting offended quite easily and quickly when they hear words of criticism about what they have said.

    Even a person of high status and considered to be a noble, humble, and respectable gets angry when s/he is being criticized. This has made me to ponder why we cannot accept criticism with an open mind, grace, and joy? Why are we so sensitive about criticism and why do we allow it to affect us in our work, relationship, and productivity?

    This can be seen in your response which is full of F words. Kulikoni huko ughaibuni? Ni F words tuu? If you have run out of argument just, instead of swearing, just shut up. When we say "how to face or deal criticism" then it implies criticism to be awful, difficult, problematic or troublesome. You have to deal with them instead of angrily lashing out F words. Drop the negative outlook on criticism and adopt an intelligent one sir. That means do not take all criticism personally and bad for you. Remember: even the greatest people on earth are criticized.

    What is said in my earlier post is that national security and international security are different security areas, though they may compliment each other. For example, the FBI and the CIA are two agencies in the United States which collect and act upon information that is either related to activities which affect the security that country. Although the two cooperate in some cases, they have different areas of focus. The FBI collects intelligence related to domestic security and performing crime investigation. The CIA is an international intelligence agency which is not responsible for domestic security.

    The primary focus of the CIA is international intelligence, while the National Security Agency (NSA) handles domestic intelligence in coordination with the FBI. In addition, the CIA often cooperates with international intelligence agencies to exchange information. The CIA may pass information regarding domestic security on to the FBI. They pass this information regarding domestic security simply because it does not fall within its ambit.

    Another good example is within the United Nations. Look at the UN Charter on the acts which constitute a threat to international peace and security. Matters of national security do not amount to a threat to international security unless they have an international character.

    I find funny when you trying to compare international issues and national issue. Those are completely different areas my friend. Huwezi kwa mfano kusoma international law or politics halafu uniambie eti you know Tanzanian domestic law or politics. International and national issues fall completely on different arenas, though as I said before they may complement each other. Kwa hiyo usifikiri kwa vile umesoma usalama wa kimataifa basi utajua jinsi idara ya usalama Tanzania inavyofanya kazi. Labda ungeniambia sehemu ya idaya hiyo inayoshughulika na usalama wa kimataifa, hapo labda tungeelwana. Otherwise, I will stick with my argument that the fact that you studied international security does not automatically qualify you to know in practice how the Tanzania national security department works.

    Madai yako kuwa unaifahamu vizuri Idara ya Usalama wa Taifa ya Tanzania must be substantiated. We need to know how you know, ili tujue unayosema kama yana ukweli. Otherwise, argument basing on the fact that unaijua fika hiyo iadara cannot be maintained. That fact is that you cannot speak of something you don't know. Kama alikuwa mtu ambaye labda alishawahi kufanya kazi au kuisomea idara hiyo then labda anaweza akajua anachokisema. But you cannot use your theoretical knowledge of international security to justify that "unaifahamu vizuri Idara ya Usalama wa Taifa ya Tanzania." How??


    Kitaaluma waandishi ambao hawana uhakika na wanachokisema they start by defending themselves even before they start. That is exactly what you did in your article. Ulianza kwa kusema eti una taaluma ya kutosha ya usalama wa kimataifa. Eti unaijua vizuri idara ya usalama wa taifa. Umeijulia wapi kama sio kutufanya sisi wadanganyika?? Halafu kuonyesha jinsi ulivyo shallow na lazy hata kufanya utafiti unamquote George Bush as your reference? You're probably the first person to have read quoting George Bush to back up their argument. How degrading is this!

    Now nije kwenye issue ya Binyam Mohammed. Sikusema kuwa inarelate na issues za EPA, nk. Ni wewe mwenye unataka kuirelate. Kwenye article yako umesema hivi: "Taratibu za wenzetu zinawezesha taasisi zao za usalama kutotumia usiri wa fani yao kwa minajili tofauti na maslahi ya taifa. Kadhalika, taratibu hizo zinasaidia kuepusha taasisi hizo kutumika kwa maslahi ya vikundi fulani katika jamii au kwa minajili ya kisiasa; ilhali taasisi hizo hazipaswi kufungamana na chama chochote cha siasa."

    Ndio maana nikakushauri ukasome kesi ya Binyam Mohammed kwanza ili at least ujue kama ni kweli "taratibu za wenzetu zinawezesha taasisi zao za usalama kutotumia usiri wa fani yao kwa minajili tofauti na maslahi ya taifa". Full citation ya kesi yenyewe ni Regina (Binyam Mohamed) v Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, 16 Feb 2010 (Court of Appeal). Baada ya kuisoma hiyo kesi ndio utaweza kulinganisha vyombo vya usalama vya huko uliko na vya hapa Tanzania.

    I agree you dont have to convince me kama kama unaelewa kwa undani ulichoandika au unaelewa juu juu. Basi kama hujui kubali criticisms au hata masahihisho instead ya kutukana. Hapa tupo kupashana habari, kokosoana na kuelimishana. Sidhani tuko hapa kutukanana na kupeana maneno ya F. Mambo ya F words waachie wenye lugha yao.

    Issue ya wapi umjibie huyo raia mwema. Wewe ulivyoandika article yako si ulipeleka ikachapishwe kwenye jarida la Raia Mwema? Kwani uliileta hapa jamvini ijadiliwe pia? Na huyu raia mwenma si amekujibia huko huko kwenye jarida? Vipi kama angeijibia hapa, si ungesema kakukimbia? Kwa nini usirepond response yake kule kule ulikopublish article yako? Instead unasema "Ningeweza kuandika makala nzima kumjibu "raia mwema" huyu lakini nimeonelea bora kuileta hapa barazani." I bet ingekuwa na F words kibao. Kama una uhakika na unachosema kwenye article yako kamjibie kule kule kama ulivyopeleka article yako ya mwanzo.

    Yaani hapo inaonyesha kama vile umemkimbia kwa kuishiwa arguments. Then unacopy and kupaste hapa eti "nawasilisha hapa where we dare speak openly." Sure, here we dare to speak openly; and this includes criticising baseless arguments. But I don't think is a place to swear against others members though simply because you don't like their criticisms.

    Mwisho kudiriki kuandika jina lako halisi, pamoja na contact details zako hakufanyi makala zako ziwe strong. The strength of the articles will speak for itself regardless of whether those who published them used their real names. Kwani nani kasema tutumie majina halisi hapa JF?

    Ukiyavulia nguo maji lazima uyakoge. Mkuu inabidi tuu ukazime moto uliowasha kule kwenye jarida la raia mwema unless you want to be the weakest link.
     
  12. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Nakubaliana na wewe kuwa wasomi wetu wana matatizo makubwa sana. Hatukubali criticisms. Nakubali sikuigusa kabisa hoja yake ya msingi. Na kutoigusa hoja yake ya msingi sikuwa najadili umbea. Kitu ambacho mimi nilihoji ni basis alizotumia kusopport hoja yake ya msingi. Na kwa vile basis alizotumia ni baseless zenyewe then automatically hoja ya msingi inakuwa haina maana tena kuijadili.

    Pia unakosea unaposema kuwa mtoa mada alikuwa anadadisi. Sidhani kama alikuwa anafanya hivyo. Mtoa mada alimesema kabisa kwenye article yake kuwa amesomea masuala ya usalama wa kimataifa na pia anaijua vizuri idara ya usalama ya tanzania. Kwa kusema hivyo alikuwa anatufahamisha kuwa anajua alichokuwa anakisema na sio kuwa alikuwa anadadisi tuu. Lakini nilivyosoma zaidi hoja yake ya msingi nikawa najiuliza mbona anavyosema haviendani na ufahamu wake alioulezea huko mwanzo. Unaweza ukawa na ukuta imara lakini kama msingi wake dhaifu then what do you expect? it will fall down.
     
  13. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Nimeku-PM kuhusu swali lako naifahamu vipi hion taasisi.Then ukishafahamu inakusaidia nini?Hivi kila unaposoma makala gazetini unahitaji kufahamu CV ya mwandishi?

    Kuhusu makala kupeleka makala Raia Mwema,you didnt have to tell me because I have been their columnist tangu 3rd issue ya gazeti hilo since it was born.Also,I have been a Jamii Forums members since 2007.So what stops me from posting makala zangu or readers' reactions hapa?I am both a Raia Mwema columnist and a JF member.Tatizo liko wapi?

    Sijawasha moto wowote zaidi ya kuwanyooshea vidole mafisadi pamoja na wapambe wao.Tunapigani uhuru wa pili,na utapatikana.Mnaweza kufanya kila jitihada kutu-discourage lakini hiyo ilifanywa na Makaburu huko South Africa and it eventually failed.Mnaweza kutengeneza jeshi la kuwavunja moyo wale wote wanaohoji maswali muhimu au wanaochokoza mijadala ya msingi lakini at the end of the day the righteous shall prevail.

    Hayo maji sijayavulia nguo mie pekee bali kila Mtanzania anayetaka kuona nchi yetu haigeuzwi kichaka cha mafisadi wachache.Mnaweza for some time kuwavunja moyo wenye ujasiri wa kuuliza maswali magumu.Manaweza pia for most of the time kutumia nguvu kukwaza mijadala yenye manufaa kwa taifa.Lakini kamwe hamuwezi kuzuia moto wa mabadiliko.Kama walishindwa USSR na Makaburu mtaweza nyie ambao kiama chenu kinabebwa kwenye ujumbe "ushirika wa wachawi haudumu"?

    Badala ya kujibu swali "JE INAWEZEKANA IDARA YA USALAMA WA TAIFA KUTUMIWA NA SERIKALI KUHUJUMU UCHAGUZI" mnaelekeza nguvu zenu kwa mtoa hoja!Well,Watanzania sio wajinga mnavyofikiria,na hukumu yenu ni hapo Oktoba 31.
     
  14. Rutashubanyuma

    Rutashubanyuma JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Ukiniuliza kazi ya mashushushu hapa nchini nitakwambia ni kulinda utawala uliopo na wala siyo vinginevyo na mashushushu hawawezi kuwa mstari wa mbele kwenye chaguzi tu lakini kwenye mambo mengine ya kiusalama wamelala fofofo.Dr. Slaa yupo sahihi na unapomwita mwongo ni kumkosea adabu tu...........................
     
  15. Lucchese DeCavalcante

    Lucchese DeCavalcante JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Oct 23, 2010
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    I am in love with this thread...
     
  16. Mimibaba

    Mimibaba JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Oct 23, 2010
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    I want to some up this way. Putting Slaa at the centre of these issue is a technic ill intention which has aborted. The objective of the contributions has both the truth and falacy. What you can not change me is my own eyes witnessing of the Institution like Usalama wa Taifa under the arrogant Sophia Simba and of cause covert activities against opposition leave alone Dr. Slaa. AND THAT IS SOPPOSED TO BE "SIRI"
     
  17. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Unajua ni vigumu sana kumuelewa mtu iwapo umeshamhukumu in a certain way.Ukishajenga dhana kuwa hoja za mwandishi ni baseless basi unakuwa umejijengea ukuta utaokwaza kuelewa chapisho husika.

    Halafu,kwa taarifa yako,uandishi wa makala sio kazi nyepesi kama unavyofikiria especially mada katika makala husika ni ya kiufundi zaidi kuliko kitaaluma (more technical than academic).Ni vigumu zaidi iwapo mada husika inamlazimu mwandishi kuwa makini ili asije vunja sheria flani na wahusika wakapata sababu ya kumkalia kooni.Hivi,kwa uelewa wako Mr Much Know,could you draw a clear line that separates facts za kusapoti hoja zilizomo kwenye makala and uvunjifu wa sheria (dhalimu) ya Siri za Taifa?Hili ni eneo delicate sana just like mwandishi anapotaka kuandika kuhusu suala ambalo tayari liko mahakamani.Asipoandika kwa undani ataambiwa hoja zake baseless.Akiingia kwa undani anahatarisha kuvuruga mwenendo wa kesi.

    Mie sio mwandishi wa habari by profession.I simply am someone who loves writing.And out of my passion for writing emerged a desire to share my ideas,stories,reflections,perspectives,etc in the form of newspaper articles.My rule of thumb is never to discuss something I know nothing about.If I feel the need to,I would then take as considerably much time as possible to acclamatise myself with the theme I intend to write about but possess limited or no knowledge at all about it.

    That's not only writing with passion but also making an article more informative.Back in the days my firends and I used to cut news clips from the good old RAI ( sio hili la sasa la kifisadi) because most of its articles were full of stuffs that we as students by then found it quite relevant to our studies.

    Anyway,baada ya kujadili udhaifu na mapungufu ya mwandishi,je unaweza kutupa jibu la swali la msingi kama inawezekana mashushushu kutumiwa na CCM kuchakachua kura ktk uchaguzi mkuu ujao?Hilo ndilo swali lililopelekea niandike makala husika,na wala makala haikuwa inahusu wasifu wangu.Jibu please!
     
  18. M

    Mikomangwa Senior Member

    #18
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Usalama wa Taifa ni MNYAMA gani? Ni hawa hawa tumezaliwa tumbo moja baba mbalimbali, marafiki zetu, walala hoi wenzetu, tunaishi nao, tunachart nao. Kwa kifupi: wanatupa siri kutoka sirini! Chaguzi za vinchi masikini (au vilivyojitakia kuwa maskini, na viongezi wake hawajui kwa nini vinchi vyao ni maskini) zinavurugwa na USALAMA WA TAIFA kwa maslahi ya watawala wasiokuwa tayari kushindwa. Muulize rafiki yako, ndugu yako anayefanya kazi huko atakwambia hivyo ili mradi umtunzie hiyo siri sirini mwako.
     
  19. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Oct 25, 2010
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    Nashukuru kwa notification yako uliyoni-PM, but in the message yako haukughusia kabisa ni jinsi gani unavyoifahamu hiyo idara. Your message was just lamenting on my replies to your comments. Tafadhali rejea rejea aya ya sita kwenye article yako ambapo unasema:

    Binafsi nina ufahamu wa kutosha kuhusu masuala ya Usalama wa Taifa au intelijensia. Katika jitihada za kujiendeleza kitaaluma, nimefanikiwa kusoma kwa undani kuhusu fani ya usalama wa kimataifa (international security). Kadhalika naifahamu vizuri Idara yetu ya Usalama wa Taifa.

    A very simple and natural question from an interested reader of your article would be: Unaifahamuje hiyo idara? A reasonable person from the street would be interested to know about you kuijua vizuri hiyo idara. They will wonder: do you or have you worked there before? Imeisomea hiyo idara? Or is from your own knowledge and experience? The simple reason for all these questions is that kama ulivyosema kwenye aya ya saba kwenye article yako: Ni vigumu kwa wengi kuelewa kuhusu hilo kwa vile, kama ilivyo mahala pengine duniani, masuala ya usalama wa taifa yanabaki kuwa siri kubwa. Sasa kama yanabaki kuwa siri kubwa, how come unaifahamu vizuri Idara yetu ya Usalama wa Taifa?

    Even imagine an organisation was interested on what you wrote and invites to give a presentation juu ya hiyo idara na kwenye presentation yako ukasema "Kadhalika naifahamu vizuri Idara yetu ya Usalama wa Taifa. How would you respond kama ukiulizwa na moja ya wasikilizaji wako unaifahamuje hiyo idara? Would you as you said in your PM start lashing our F words because you get provoked or start associating the person who asked you that question with certain group like you have done to me? I believe a good writer should respond to criticisms levelled at his/her writing but not lashing out F words on the grounds that s/he was provoked.

    I would still have asked you the same question if your article was for another organisation and you claimed without any explanation whatsoever that "unaifahamu vizuri hiyo organisation." The fact that you have been their columnist tangu 3rd issue ya gazeti hilo since it was born and also a Jamii Forums members since 2007, does not entitle you to write baseless articles or not to be criticised for what you write. JF is a forum where everywhere is equal in the debate regardless of when the joined this forum.

    Please do not class me in a certain group simply because of me questioning what you have written. In deed, this is a common issue here at JF. If we all have the same perpective then this would not have been a great forum. Mfano, umesema kwenye moja ya posts zako kwenye hii thread kuwa "Unajua ni vigumu sana kumuelewa mtu iwapo umeshamhukumu in a certain way." Baada ya kusema ukanihumu kwa kuniassociate na group fulani. Sasa utanilewaje kama kama tayari umeshanihukumu in certain way?? I was simply asking an honest question kuwa unaijuaje idara ya usalama wa taifa wakati at the same time unasema hii idara inaendesha mambo yake kwa siri? Instead of answering my question, you decided to take this question personally on the ground that I provoked you.

    More importantly you automatically associated me with a group you don't like. We make assumptions when we don't fully understand a situation. It is a natural reaction to immediately fill in any missing information by making up our own story. We do this because we like to try to make sense of people and situations. The problem with this is that most of the time our story is incorrect which causes all kinds of complications. The fact is, we don't know what the truth is unless we ask.

    Dr Slaa ametoa tuhuma. Wewe umezitumia tuhuma zake kuandikia article bila kupata kuverify upande wa pili. Sasa hebu niambie article yako ina tofauti gani na ile ya mwandishi wa habarileo aliyendika tuhuma za Dr Slaa kutembea na mke wa mtu?

    As much as we would like to think we know what others are thinking, we simply can't read minds. Sometimes we think we have the super power to know the reasons why people do the things they do (without asking them) which is pretty presumptuous. Remember, not everyone sees the world the same way you do (shocker, I know, but it is easy to forget).

    Need another reason to stop making assumptions? Try turning it around. Do you believe that other people can read your mind? Would you rather that someone make up a story (an assumption) about what you are thinking and feeling? Or, would you prefer that they ask you? When you ask instead of assume, you may not always get an answer you like or expect. Still, asking is much better than making up your own story because then you are in the position to make an informed next step.

    Kuna mdau mmoja hapa JF alianzisha threads hapa akiicriticise idara ya usalama kwa kushindwa kabisa kudeal na mambo ya uhamiaji. It appeared that the person did not know the role and powers ya idara ya usalama wa taifa. When I questioned him/her, s/he said "tumevamiwa!" But gave hin/her the relevant law which which provides such powers and also informed them that kuna idara ya uhamiaji ambayo kisheria ndio inahusika zaidi na masuala ya uhamiaji. So, the right department to criticise ilikuwa idara ya uhamiaji na sio ya usalama wa taifa.

    It appears you are on the same path here. In your article you metioned EPA, Richmod, etc and you think that idara ya usalama is responsible for this. You did not mention TUKUKURU which in law ndio idara inayohusika. Instead you said "Kitaalamu, idara hiyo ingepaswa kushinikiza hatua dhidi ya mmiliki wa Kagoda; hasa kwa vile taasisi za usalama duniani kote zina njia rasmi na zisizo rasmi za kushinikiza mambo yenye maslahi kwa taifa." You may be right that kitaalamu inabidi iwe hivyo, but inawezekana isiwe hivyo kisheria. Kisheria idara za usalama hazina, sio tuu Tanzania, hazina mamlaka ya kushinikiza. Ndio maana nilikushauri ukasome ile sheria ya idara ya usalama wa taifa (That is the law and if you don't like then ask your MP).

    That why the member who was questioning idara ya usalama wa taifa on immigration issue, having read the law, s/he agreed and we continued to discuss the substantive part of the thread. This was merely a preliminary issue which was to be ironed out and the guy did not take it personally. S/he did make an assumption but later realised that were just here to inform and educate each others. I believe one of the JF core values is that its members are not here just to make assumptions about people beliefs or which political group they belong. This is a forum where people can debate equally. JF is not a personal blog like Michuzi Blog.

    Nakubaliana na wewe kuwa "uandishi wa makala sio kazi nyepesi …especially mada katika makala husika ni ya kiufundi zaidi kuliko kitaaluma." Lakini hii haina maana kuwa mtu anaweza kuandika makala from nowhere. You have to know what you are writing and you are able to back it up if criticised unless you are writing a tabloid stories. Pia nakubaliana na wewe kuwa "Ni vigumu zaidi iwapo mada husika inamlazimu mwandishi kuwa makini ili asije vunja sheria flani na wahusika wakapata sababu ya kumkalia kooni." Now imagine if idara ya usalama ikitaka maelezo toka kwa juu ya makala yako ambayo unasema kuwa unaifahamu vizuri idara hiyo. Would start lashing out F words on the ground that, you have been provoked by them?

    Ni vizuri umekubali kuwa wewe sio "mwandishi wa habari by profession" That is very important because when people reading your articles in the future would know that you are not writing them professionally but just for fun.

    I also agree with your "rule of thumb … never to discuss something you know nothing about." This clearly suggests that unaijua vizuri idara husika. Tell us now, how do you know it? This will help your readers to trust what you have written. They will read your article with belief that it was written by someone who actually knew what they were writing about. Ninasoma sana articles nyingi kwenye magazeti, na wakati mwingine huwa najiuliza hivi kweli huyu mwandishi alikuwa anajua anachokiandika or he was just writing emotionally?

    You mentioned about Rai, the then newspaper which I also loved to read. Do you think the then Rai would have published your article? What would have been your response if, the editor had asked you if you have any facts to substantiate your claim that unaifahamu vizuri idara ya usalama wa taifa ya Tanzania? Lets be clear here. We will give an account of every idle word (without a basis in reason or fact) we have spoken regardless of whether or not we are writing academically or professionally.

    Umemalizia kwa kusema kuwa baada ya kujadili udhaifu na mapungufu yako (which you still disputing), kama ninaweza kutoa jibu la swali la msingi kama inawezekana mashushushu kutumiwa na CCM kuchakachua kura katika uchaguzi mkuu ujao. So do you think I would give an objective answer to your question, if you have already associated me with a certain group which you claims to be using idara ya usalama for its own interests? In deed, you have said in your article that unaifahamu vizuri idara hiyo, probably kuliko wasomaji wa article yako, so should you have the correct answer already?
     
  20. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Oct 25, 2010
    Joined: Dec 12, 2007
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    Tatizo lako umejimilikisha jukumu la fikra za umma.Kwamba kama wewe huamini basi umma nao hauamini.Kuwa na msimamo ni jambo zuri.Ila kuwa na msimamo kwenye jambo la kipuuzi ni sawa na upuuzi pia.

    Kuna watu wanalalamika kuwa JF inapendelea Chadema na kuichukia CCM.Wanachosahau ni ukweli kuwa katika mazingira ya kawaida,people have got a lot to gain kuisapoti CCM kuliko Chadema.Ukisapoti CCM utabebwa na lori kwenda mkutanoni.Ukikurupuka na ndoto zako za ajabu kuikashifu Chadema utapewa front page coverage na Habari Leo au Daily News.Ukisapoti CCM utawezeshwa kukwepa kodi,na uhalifu mwingine kama huo.So why would people risk supporting Chadema?Inahitaji busara tu kutambua kuwa WATU WAMECHOSHWA.

    Unaweza kuandika makala ndeeefu kutetea kisichoweza kutetewa.Wenye akili zao hawahitaji malumbano kubaini nani fisadi,nani mlezi wa mafisadi,nani anatumia fedha za umma kwa maslahi ya mafisadi,nk.Baki na mtizamo wako,haitomwathiri mtu mwingine.

    Kuhusu jibu la swali nililouliza kwenye makala yangu,itachukua karne nzima kukufahamisha dhima ya makala hiyo.Unfortunately,hiyo si kazi yangu au ya mwandishi yeyote ile ya makala.Ukisoma kitu na hukukielewa au kutokipenda una uchaguzi wa kuachana nacho au kuamini tofauti na mwandishi.Hakuna mwandishi anayemshikia bastola msomaji ili akubaliane na alichoandika.Haimnyimi usingizi mwandishi iwapo wasomaji watapatwa kichefuchefu na alichoandika,as long as maandishi hayo si matusi,kashfa au uhaini.Similarly,hainisumbui kuona umeng'ang'ania kutaka kujua naielewaje Idara ya Usalama wa Taifa.That's your own problem.

    Aliyeelewa kilichoandikwa ameelewa.Asiyetaka kuelewa kama wewe...well,there's nothing Raia Mwema and I could do to help.Amini unachoamini kwa vile hakuna anayejaribu kukuaminisha tofauti na uelewa wako.
     
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