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Kawawa vs Sokoine: A Myth or Reality?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mdau, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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    Poleni na msiba wa mzee wetu mpendwa na mnyenyekevu wanajamvi wenzangu........kuna tetesi nyingi sana kuhusiana na chanzo cha ajali iliyosababisha kifo cha hayati Sokoine,mojawapo ikiwa ni kwamba hayati mzee Kawawa alikua anahusika.........ukweli ni upi?
     
  2. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Ondoa udaku hapa. ...........
    ..........watu wengine wana mambo ya ajabu kweli.
     
  3. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    Ngoja azikwe kwanza, utapata majibu yako...!...Kwetu kumsema mtu akiwa bado huku aridhini unachuma dhambi na kujikwaza!
     
  4. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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    "Ondoa udaku hapa. ...........
    ..........watu wengine wana mambo ya ajabu kweli

    KICHUGUU......hivi wewe ni Mtanzania kweli?? mambo ya ajabu unayafahamu?? ngoja nikujulishe- ni pamoja na VIONGOZI WA CCM KUDAI KWAMBA WATZIKOSA SANA BUSARA ZA HAYATI KAWAWA,SASA WAULIZE NI ZIPI AMBAZO WAMEWAHI KUZITUMIA??? hayo ndio mambo ya ajabu sasa.......usidandie mambo, kama una hoja toa, kama huna kaa kimya,sio lazima kuchangia.
     
  5. Utingo

    Utingo JF-Expert Member

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    Mdau, hapo umenena, magazeti mengi yamenichanganya sana ni article ya zitto kabwe tu kuwa rashid alikuwa kalamu ya mwalimu ndiyo ina mantiki, zingine ni uongo na uzushi. Ni hekima zipi za kawawa. ikiwa ni hivyo tusubiri hata za msekwa na makamba. jamani tuwe wakweli watueleze hata mojawapo.

    Waache uzushi, mbona kabla hajafa hawakuwa wakimsema kuwa ni kisima cha busara? sana sana walikuwa wanamheshimu tu na kwenda kumlilia ili JK awape vyeo au atulize hasira za jk. Wa madale tunajua hilo. Ndiyo maana wamelia maana hakuna wa kumkaripia jk sasa labda akina mzee kisumo.
     
  6. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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    Na pia kuna wengine wanasema Mwalimu alikua anapenda sana watu waliokua na utaratibu wa NDIYO MZEE....kumbukeni Kambona alivyoonekana mkorofi...anyway,kila mtu ana mapungufu yake,labda pia level ya elimu ilimfanya hayati kawawa awe mnyenyekevu..
     
  7. M

    Mbunge wa CCM JF-Expert Member

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    huoni kuwa umeishakiri kuwa watazikosa busara zake???

    acheni unafiki. kila mtu anajua ccm ilikuwa ikishauriwa mambo mengi sana na kawawa na si lazima kila ushauri uandikwe magazetini. kwa taarifa yenu kama si ushauri wa kawawa, nchi ingewaka moto wakati sokoine alipopewa meno na mwalimu kuendesha vita dhidi ya uhujumu uchumi.

    majuzi wakati wa sakata la richmondi kama si busara za kawawa, nchi ingewaka moto pia.

    msekwa katoboa kuwa alikuwa mshauri mkubwa kabisa (kuliko hata ali mwinyi) wakati wa uchaguzi. kauli hii ni thabiti na ya kweli kabisa kadiri ya ufahamu wangu wa siasa za ccm.

    ni mambo mengi aliyokuwa akishauri sasa kama hukuyajua sio useme hawakuheshimu ushauri wake.
     
  8. M

    Mpambanaji K Member

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    Ni lazima tukubali kuwa Kawawa alikuwa na mchango wake kwa CCM. Lakini hoja iliyokuwa imetolewa mwanzo ni je,tetesi kuwa alihusika na ajali ya sokoine ni kweli?mwenye data atumegee
     
  9. Kilasara

    Kilasara JF-Expert Member

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    Kuhusika kwa RMK na kifo cha Sokoine ni far-fetched; and brutish at this moment of mourning.

    Hakuna shaka kwamba Kawawa alikuwa loyal 100% kwa Rais Nyerere. So loyal and submissive that he hardly advised anything that smacked correction if the boss erred.

    May his soul rest in eternal peace. Amen
     
  10. K

    Kieleweke Member

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    Kichuguu,

    Habari ya "chai kuongezwa hadi ikatamkwa funika kikombe" naweza kuamini ni udaku na tumeusema sana mashuleni, mitaani, kwenye baa nk.

    Lakini kuhusu kifo cha Sokoine ninachoweza kusema ni kwamba nilibahatika na bahati nilikuwa mtoto sana madarasa ya mwanzoni primary.

    Nilisoma gazeti lote la AFRICA NOW toleo la May 1984 mwezi mmoja baada ya kifo cha Sokoine.

    Gazeti lile halikuwa la uvumi. Liliheshimika kwani kulikuwa na waandishi kama Bafour Ankomar, Wole Soyinka, na kulikuwa na column maalum ya Abdulahman Babu aliyehusishwa na mauaji ya Karume bila kusema huo ni udaku.


    Kuhusu kifo cha Sokoine mtaani yalizungumzwa mengi sitaki kuyasema lakini na utoto ule ninakubuka vizuri.

    Story ya kifo cha Sokoine ilikwa special report ya gazeti lile toleo lile. Lilitaja viongozi wengi ukizingatia kwamba ilikuwa ni miezi michache Aboud Jumbe kuondolewa nyadhifa zote na NEC ya CCM kule Dodoma na nafasi yake kuchukliwa na Ali Hassan Mwinyi.

    Mwinyi hakutajwa kwenye ile report ya gazeti kwani hakuwa gumzo. Salim Ahmed Salim alitajwa akiwa tayari amepewa nafasi kumrithi Sokoine kama Prime Minister.

    Kawawa si kwamba alitajwa tu kama wengine. Aliwekewa chapter nzima iliyoitwa KAWAWA CHOICE.

    Kila msomi alikuwa hakosi gazeti lile kila mwezi. Na nilikuwa nikienda kucheza kwa enzangu basi kipimo changu cha usomi wa mdingi wa wenzangu ni kuona kama sebuleni wameweka gazeti la AFRICA NOW.


    Lakini pamoja na kulipenda gazeti lile, basi toleo lile ndio ukawa mwisho wa gazeti lile. Siku hizi huwa naona gazeti fulani nalo limeandikwa AFRICA NOW sijui ndiyo muendelezo wa lie au la.

    Nahisi serikali ililifungia kwani hilo ndilo lilikuwa toleo la mwisho kuonekana Tanzania. Lakini huwa najiuliza, hivi kungekuwa na internet siku hizi serikali ingefanyaje. Unafungia lisiingine watu tunarishiana kopi kwenye email na serikali inabaki kulalamika tunatumia vibaya mitandao.

    Nahisi serikali isingekuwa na kufanya zaidi ya kuwatumia watu kama wewe Kichuguu kusema ondoa udaku wako hapa.
     
  11. Regia Mtema

    Regia Mtema R I P

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    Ndugu yangu swali hili ungemuuliza Mzee Kawawa muda mfupi kabla umauti haujmfika ungepata jibu sahihi .Unafikiri nani atakwambia habari hizi za uvumi?
     
  12. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    ..mara nyingine watu walikuwa wanambebesha Rashidi Kawawa lawama asizostahili hata kidogo.


    ..kulikuwa na maneno mengi sana ya kumchafua-chafua huyu Mzee.

    ..at one point watu wanasema hakuwa na uelewa wa hili wala lile.

    ..baada ya hapo wanakurupuka na kudai alikuwa na nguvu na ujanja wa ajabu kuweza kumuua Edward Sokoine, Waziri Mkuu wa Tanzania, ambaye alikuwa ni kipenzi na mrithi wa Mwalimu.

    ..mimi habari hii naona ni UONGO na UZANDIKI mkubwa. Kawawa hakuna na influence kiasi cha kuweza kufanikisha mpango wa mauaji kama huo.
     
  13. B

    Bondeni Member

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    Ebu nielimishe. Pia nisahihishe nikikosea.

    Unasema Kawawa alikuwa mnyenyekevu (bila shaka unamaanisha kwa Mwalimu Nyerere) kwa sababu ya elimu yake; nadhani unamaanisha elimu yake ilikuwa ni ndogo.

    Swali langu ni hili: Kambona alikuwa na elimu gani? Alimaliza masomo chuoni, katika chuo chochote, na kupata shahada? Shahada gani?

    Kabla ya uhuru, aliwahi kuwa mwanafunzi Uingereza na alijaribu kusomea sheria lakini alifeli mitihani.

    Pia ukorofi wa Kambona haukumsaidia ikiwa nia yake ilikuwa ni kujionyesha kwamba yeye ni kiongozi shupavu ambaye hamwogopi Mwalimu Nyerere na anaweza kupambana naye.

    Angekuwa hivyo, asingetoroka na kukimbilia Uingereza kujificha. Kulikuwa na viongozi maarufu ambao walitofautiana na Mwalimu Nyerere lakini hawakukimbia na kwenda kuishi nchi za nje; viongozi kama akina Chifu Abdallah Said Fundikira, Kasella Bantu, na wengineo.

    Hata Kambona aliporudi Tanzania 1992 baada ya kuishi Uingereza tangu Julai 1967, hakuwa na chochote cha kusema. Nakumbuka alipoondoka Tanzania. Nilikuwa secondary school. Nakumbuka pia ilisemekana mtoto wake wa kike wakati ule, waliyekimbilia naye Uingereza, alikuwa na umri wa miaka mitatu. Hakuna haja ya kutaja jina la mtoto huyo kwani anajulikana. Nimemzungumzia hapa kwa kifupi tu kuthibitisha kwamba nilikuwepo nyakati zile.

    Aliporudi Tanzania, Kambona aliwaahidi wananchi kwamba atasema ukweli kuhusu Mwalimu na viongozi wengine ambao alidai waliipotosha nchi yetu. Alisema alizijua siri za Mwalimu na za viongozi wengine ambazo atazifichua kwa manufaa ya taifa. "Siri" aliyoifichua ni kusema Nyerere ni Mtusi. Upuuzi mtupu. Kambona alikuwa ni Mnyasa. Haimanishi hakuwa Mtanzania.

    Kambona hakusema chochote pale Jangwani kwenye mkutano wa hadhara au mahali pengine baada ya hapo.

    Kiongozi kama huyo ni mtu wa kuaminika? Unaweza kumwamini kiongozi kama huyo?

    Na usiwalaumu walinzi wa Usalama Wa Taifa kwa nini hakusema chochote muhimu aliporudi Tanzania kuhusu Nyerere na viongozi wengine. Kumbuka kwamba, au ikiwa hujui inabidi ujulishwe kwamba, kabla hajaondoka Uingereza kurudi Tanzania, Kambona alisema hajali chochote. Yuko tayari kukamatwa - potelea mbali. Viongozi wa serikali na Usalama Wa Taifa wawe tayari kumkamata mara tu atakapotua uwanja wa ndege, Dar, wakitaka kufanya hivyo. Wapende, wasipende, anarudi Tanzania.

    Alirudi. Hakukamatwa. Aliachwa huru. Lakini hakuenda popote na jitihada yake kuwa kiongozi wa taifa.

    Sijui kama alikuwa mtupu kichwani. Ninachokumbuka ni nywele zake, Kambona style, ambazo Watanzania mbali mbali walijaribu kuiga.

    Pia inasemekana kwamba Makaburu waliahidi kumsaidia Kambona kabla na baada ya kupindua serikali - angefanikiwa kufanya hivyo. Sijui kama kuna ushahidi kuhusu usaliti huo lakini inasemekana, kutokana na kesi ya uhaini ya 1970:

    "The central prosecution witness was Potlako K. Leballo, a founder of the Pan-African Congress (Pan-Africanist Congress) of South Africa (PAC), which had its exile headquarters in Dar es Salaam.

    The state maintained that seven defendants attempted to enlist Leballo in the plot but that he informed government officials and only appeared to go along with the plot in order to assist in capturing the conspirators.

    Leballo testified that he frequently met with Kambona in London and that Kambona had shown him a cache of $500,000 and told him that he could "get more where that came from" by contacting a U.S. Information Service "friend" in London (New York Times, 19 July 1970, 12).

    Leballo further testified that Kambona had an agreement with the South African foreign minister, Hilgard Muller, that South Africa would support the coup." - Colin Legum, ed., "Africa Contemporary Record, 1970 - 1971," pp. 170 - 71. See also Oscar Kambona in Jacqueline Audrey Kalley, Elna Schoeman, Lydia Eve Andor, "Southern African Political History: A Chronology of Key Political Events," page 594.


    Sina chuki na Kambona. Alikuwa ni kiongozi wa taifa letu na alipigania uhuru wa nchi yetu, na bara letu, pamoja na viongozi wenzake. Pia alifanya makosa kama binadamu yeyote, pamoja na Mwalimu Nyerere na wenzao. Wote walifanya makosa. Lakini asipewe sifa ambazo hastahili.

    Na ninyi mnaomponda Nyerere na Kawawa, na ambao mnafurahia mabadiliko nchini hasa za kiuchumi na kuwa huru kusema na kuandika chochote mnachotaka, kumbukeni tulikotoka kama nchi na taifa hata kama hamkuweko miaka ile kwa sababu mlikuwa bado hamjazaliwa. Someni na waullize waliowatangulia miaka mingi kwa umri.

    Kumbukeni kwamba tusingekuwa na nchi yenye umoja na amani bila viongozi kama akina Nyerere na Kawawa au wengine wa aina hiyo na wenye uwezo wao. Pia walilinda taifa letu, na walitunza mali yetu - madini na kadhalika - kwa manufaa yetu.

    Baada ya viongozi hao, tunaona nini kimetokea? Nchi yetu imeuzwa na wakombozi wenu wa kisasa na sera zao za kibepari. Viongozi hawa wanaongozwa, wanaamriwa, na wanatawaliwa, na wageni kutoka nchi za nje. Na sisi pia tunatawaliwa, tunakandamizwa, na tunanyonywa, kwa sababu nchi yetu si nchi yetu tena.

    Imeuzwa.

    Kabla Sekou Toure hajaondoka madarakani na kufariki, aliwaonya wananchi wenzake, "You will miss me."

    Wafaransa wamerudi Guinea. Ni nchi yao tena.
     
  14. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    Some of the threads are very interesting. Hata Mwalimu alisema tutamlilia sana maana alishapima nguvu na speed na kasi mpya hata kabla haijakuwapo akagundua spidi ile kwenye round about ni kizunguzungu
     
  15. mfianchi

    mfianchi JF-Expert Member

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    Lakini Kawawa alikuwa na mapomgufu mengi,nakumbuka wakati Kitine alipowanyoshea kidole akina Sumaye wakati Mkapa ni president kuwa uongozi wao umejaa uchafu Kawawa akaja juu na kutamuka waziwazi kuwa watu wa sampuli ya Kitine ni wa kutoswa,na sasa tunayashuhudia yaleyale aliyoyasema Kitine,Mzee Kawawa hakuwa na ujasiri kama wa Nyerere,kwani tulitegemea baada ya kifo cha Nyerere angeweza kukekemea maovu ya viongozi lakini wapi,hata hivyo tunamuombea Mzee wetu mpendwa apumzike mahala pema kwa kweli kwa hali ilivyosasa ni kama vile alivyosema Kardinali Pengo wakati wa mazishi ya Askofu Mayala kuwa mwenyezi Mungu kumchukua Askofu Mayala kumwepusha maovu yaliyokithiri hapa nchini,RIP Mzee wetu hakuna mwanadamu aliyemkamilifu
     
  16. Wacha

    Wacha JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania haiwezi kumpata waziri mkuu kama alivyokuwa Sokoine, na vile vile haitaweza kumpata rais kama alivyokuwa Nyerere. Ukiangalia katika historia sio Tanzania pekee, duniani historia za watu ambao wameweza kubadili na kugeuza mambo muhimu huwa haijirudii mapema.

    Kawawa hakuwa mshiriki kwa namna yoyote ile kuhusu kifo cha Edward Moringe Sokoine ninavyofahamu, lakini baada ya kusema hivyo lazima ikumbukwe kwamba kulikuwa na majaribio kadhaa ambayo yalifanywa na kama kuna mtu anaweza kuweka picha hapa kuonyesha wakati Sokoine alipokwenda kumpokea Mwalimu kwenye uwanja wa ndege Dar Es Salaam - Mwalimu alikuwa anatoka ziarani Mozambique na Sokoine alirudi kutoka Europe kutibiwa (Hakuna aliyesema wakati ule alikwenda kutibiwa nini) wengi mtaelewa kwamba kulikuwa na kitu hakiko sawa. Daily News waliweka hiyo picha kwenye front page yake kama kawaida. Tuliijadili sana ile picha wakati ule. Vile vile lazima ikumbukwe kwamba Sokoine alibadili kanisa alilokuwa anasali pamoja na mambo mengine.

    Vile vile uendeshaji wa kazi ya uwaziri mkuu- Sokoine alikuwa anauwezo sio hizi lelemama tunazoziona kwa hawa vibaka.
     
  17. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    - The dataz ni huko kwenye mazishi imesomwa risala ya Museveni na makamu wake wa Rais, wakuu mlionayo hebu tumwagieni maana nasikia ilikuwa ni balaa Museveni ameamua kuwashukia wabezaji wote wa lile kongamano la majuzi kule Foundation,

    - The dataz ni kwamba ilibidi Makamba akimbie kwa aibu, maana maneno mengi yalikuwa yanamlenga yeye na yale maneno yake kwamba kina Butiku ni wehu, Museveni nasikia amedai yeye anamtambua Butiku kama Meja, aliyeshirikiana naye kumng'oa Idd Amin, duh! nasikia ilikuwa aibu kubwa huko mazishini, haya wakuu tupeni dataz hapa yaliyojiri huko!

    - Wenye hii hotuba jamani tupeni yote hapa mkiweza, kabla hawajaipunguza nguvu hao mafia kina Makamba, yaani mpaka viongozi wa nje nao wanawashitukia haya magarasha kina Ndulu design! Duh!

    Respect.


    FMEs!
     
  18. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #18
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    Wacha,

    ..kuna "theories" mbili kuhusu Sokoine kujiuzulu Uwaziri Mkuu miaka ya 1980. kuna wanaosema alijiuzulu kutokana na matatizo ya afya. nadhani RTD walitoa taarifa hiyo. lakini wapo wengine wanasema alijiuzulu ili apate nafasi ya kwenda kusoma.

    ..labda ni kweli alikuwa mgonjwa na alipofika Yugoslavia kutibiwa akaamua kutumia muda huo kusoma. zipo taarifa kwamba alikwenda shule Yugoslavia.

    ..kuhusu suala la kubadilisha Kanisa alilokuwa akisali labda ingesaidia kama ungeeleza makanisa aliyopata kusali. Sokoine alihama toka ktk nyumba ya waziri mkuu iliyokuwa Ikulu na kuhamia maeneo ya upanga. sasa huenda alibadili makanisa kufuatana na makazi aliyopata kuishi.

    ..kama ni suala la kugombea madaraka, mwaka 1962 Kawawa alishakuwa Waziri Mkuu mwenye madaraka kuliko Uwaziri Mkuu wa Sokoine. pamoja na hayo akamuachia nafasi hiyo Mwalimu baada ya kuwa amemaliza kazi ya kuimarisha TANU.
     
  19. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

    #19
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    Nimesema thread hii ni udaku kwa vile haikutolewa katika wakati mwafaka.

    Siyo kawaida yetu kwenda kumdai marehemu kabla hata hajazikwa; huwa tunasubiri baada ya mazishi wakati wa kugawa mali yake. Vivyo hivyo nimeona habari hii ilikuwa kama vile ni ya kumdai marehemu kabla hajazikwa. Tuna muda mrefu sana mbele yetu kumcahmabua utendaji wake kama tulivyokwisha fanya kwa Nyerere; kwa nini tusiwe na subira?
     
  20. Wacha

    Wacha JF-Expert Member

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    Moringe alikuwa mgonjwa kama ulivyosema hapo juu hiyo ilikuwa mara ya kwanza. Si unakumbuka aliporudi alienda bungeni na kusema yeye ni mzima matatizo yake yamekwisha. Hata Jumbe alipofukuzwa kazi Mwinyi ndio aliongozwa na Sokoine kwenye msafara wake mpya baada ya ule mkutano wa Dodoma. Hiyo waliyosema RTD ni sahihi kabisa. Naongelea mara ya pili na hakwenda kutibiwa huko ulikosema alikwenda Uswiss.

    Swala la kubadilisha kanisa ilikuwa ni kwa sababu ya usalama wake, alikuwa anakwenda St. Peters kabla ya mauti yake kwenye ajali ambayo ndiyo questionable. Tunaongelea miaka ya 1979+ Zamani alikuwa anasali karibu na nyumbani kwake.
     
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