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Katiba: CHADEMA mlikosea! Kubalini yaishe, Tusonge mbele!

Discussion in 'KATIBA Mpya' started by Pascal Mayalla, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 20, 2011
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    Wanabodi,
    Kanuni ya Kuu ya Kwanza kwa mwanahabari yoyote ni to tell nothing but the truth. Naomba kuitumia kanuni hii kuwaambia Chadema, they were wrong!, walikosea!, kwanza wakiri makosa, pili wakubali yaishe na mwisho wasonge mbele, 2015 sio mbali kihivyo!.

    Mchelea mwana kulia, hulia yeye, japo binafsi sio mshabiki wa chama chochote cha siasa bali ni mkereketwa wa demokrasia ya kweli ndani ya bunge, hivyo wapenzi wote wa dhati wa demokrasia, lazima waikubali Chadema kama ndicho chama pekee cha upinzani Tanzania bara kilichoonyesha nuru ya matumaini ya uwezekano wa kupatikana kwa demokrasia ya kweli ndani ya bunge na labda hata ukombozi wa pili wa Mtanzania baada ya uhuru na miaka 50 ya utumwa wa chama kimoja kuhodhi madaraka yote ya dola.

    Wengi wa wapenzi wa demokrasia wanaishabikia mno Chadema wakichelea kuiambia ukweli kuwa watalia, mimi nachelea mashabiki na wapenzi wao kulia mwaka 2015, hivyo nawaambia ukweli ili hata kama mtalia, lakini itakumbukwa mliambiwa!.

    Suala la kususia jumla mchakato wa kuunda tume ya kukusanya maoni kuunda katiba mpya ni kosa kwa sababu Chadema kama kiongozi wa Kambi Rasmi ya Upinzani Bungeni, ilikuwa na uwezo wa kuusimamisha na kuzuia uwasilishwaji kwa mara ya pili huo muswada kwa kutumia kanuni ya kifungu 86 hivyo kutoa fursa ya hoja ya kuzuia uwasilishwaji huo kusikilizwa, lakini Chadema haikufanya hivyo.

    Hakuna ubishi kuhusu uwezo wa wabunge wa Chadema katika umakini, kitendo cha oversight ya opportunies provided by kifungu cha 86 cha kanuni za bunge kuuzuia huo muswada, sio tuu ni udhaifu mkubwa, but kosa kubwa ambalo Chadema lazima wakiri, waombe radhi na kusonga mbele.

    Kanuni hiyo ya 86 inaeleza wazi hatua kwa hatua za kufuatwa ili kuuzuia muswada usisomwe kwa mara ya pili. Chadema ilipuuza na kuendelea kuwasilisha maoni ya kambi ya upinzani.

    Kama Chadema ingezingatia kanuni hiyo, isinge wasilisha maoni ya kambi ya upinzani bali ingewasilisha pingamizi!.

    Kitendo cha Mhe. Lissu kuwasilisha maoni ya kambi ya upinzani, yamemaanisha wameijibu hoja ya serikali hivyo kutoa go ahead majadiliano yaendelee. Uwasilishwaji wa hotuba hiyo ndio passport ya mjadala kuendelea, kama kambi ya upinzani wasingewasilisha maoni yao, muswada ungesitishwa kwanza na wao kusikilizwa. Hivyo iwasilishwaji wa hotuba ile ni kosa la pili, Chadema lazima wakiri kosa, waombe radhi na kusonga mbele!.

    Kitendo cha kususia mjadala kwa siku ya kwanza na kutoka nje, was the right move kuonyesha protest dhidi ya unyanyasaji wa Mhe. Spika, lakini kuisusa hoja jumla, was a mistake hivyo sheria imetungwa bila imput yao, hivyo hili ni kosa la tatu, Chadema wakiri kosa, waombe radhi na kusonga mbele!.

    Nimebahatika kuhudhuria mdahalo wa Star TV kuhusu Tanzania tuitakayo ambapo Mhe. Tindu Lissu ilikuwa ni mdahiliwa, na nilipata fursa ya kuuliza swali kuhusu kanuni ya 86 lililokuwa na vipengele a, b na c
    (a) Kanini hawakitumia kanuni ya 86 kuuzuia muswada usisomwe?.
    (b) Kwanini waliwasilisha hotuba ya maoni ya kambi ya upinzani yaliyotoa passport mjadala uendelee badala ya kuwasilisha pingamizi ambayo ingeusimamisha mjadala?.
    (c) Chadema wamesusa sheria imepitishwa, jee wamefaidika na nini na kususa kwao?.

    Mhe. Lissu amepiga chenga kutoa majibu ya kina kwa kujibu
    (a). Amenisomea hitimisho la hotuba yake. Kanuni ya 86 ilimtaka Mhe. Lissu awasilishe pingamizi na sio hotuba!.
    (b) Amepiga chenga kueleza ni kwanini amewasilisha hotuba badala ya pingamizi!.
    (c) Wananchi wanaelewa ni nani mtetezi wao wa ukweli.

    Kwa vile sheria imepitishwa na itasainiwa na rais kwa mbwembwe, lazima Chadema na wapenzi wao na mashabiki wao waukubali ukweli mchungu kuwa they lost the bettle hivyo watake wasitake, lazima wakubali matokeo. Hawawezi kuendelea kususa, lazima wajisibmit kwenye tume ya kuratibu maoni na kutoa maoni yao hata kama tume hiyo itaundwa bila imput yao na bila ridhaa yao!.

    Yaliyopita si ndwele, tugange yaliyopo (Tume ya kukusanya maoni) na yajayo (Katiba Mpya).

    Namalizia kwa kusisitiza, kufanya kosa si kosa, kosa ni kurudia kosa!. Chadema kwenye uundwaji tume mmefanya kosa!. Sheria imetungwa na sasa sio kosa tena, kosa ni kurudia kosa kama hamtoa maoni yenu kwenye tume!. Two wrongs don't make right, better late than never!.

    2015 sio mbali kihivyo!.

    Wasalaam
    Pasco (wa jf).

    Update 1.

    Update-2.
    Update-3.
    Update-4
    Update-5.
    [h=2][​IMG] Pasco was right on CHADEMA..[/h]

     
  2. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #2
    Nov 20, 2011
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
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    Pasco, hivi wangetoa hoja kwa kutumia kanuni ya 86 mjadala ungesimamishwa automatically au Spika angeuliza Bunge na Bunge kuamua? Unafikiri Wabunge wa CCM wangekubali kusimamisha mjadala baada ya kuulizwa na Spika?

    Sidhani kama wame lose; ukiangalia zaidi utaona kuwa wao wamegain kwa sababu mstari umechorwa kati ya wale wanaoamini Rais na wana CCM wanaweza kufanya yote wayatakayo na wale ambao wanaamini the CCM government is in contempt of the people. Tofauti hii ya maoni ni ya muhimu. Rais na CCM wameweza kulazimisha sheria waitakayo wao kupita - kama walivyofanya kwenye sheria ya gharama za uchaguzi - lakini mwisho wa siku watajikuta ni wao pekee ndio wanaandika hiyo Katiba mpya na wale wanaowaamini au kuwafuata. Je kwa vile sheria imepitishwa ina maana mchakato utakuwa halali kwa kuangaliai first principle? Ukweli ni kuwa CCM hawakuhitaji hoja za CDM au za mtu mwingine yeyote juu ya mswada huu, walikuwa na mawazo yao na wameyatekeleza bila kuzuiwa kwani hakukuwa na mtu yeyote ambaye angeweza kuwazuia.


    Siyo lazima. Watanzania ambao hawaamini katika uhalali wa mchakato huu kwa sababu umevunja the First Principle wanaweza kuupinga, kukataa kushiriki na kuwahamaisha wengine wasishiriki kwa hoja ambazo zitaonesha kuwa mchakto mzima umekosewa toka mwanzo na haukuwa nafasi ya kufanikiwa kwa sababu ulikuwa ni wa kulazisha kwa kutumia tyranny of thte majority. Wananchi hawawezi kulazimishwa kuitii tume ambayo hawaamini ni halali. Tume kupitishwa na kuundwa hakuipi uhalali (legitimacy) kwani uhalali wa sheria hauji kwa kupitishwa tu bali pia kwa uhalali wa hoja zake na mantiki yake. Mwanadamu hawezi kulazimishwa kutii kitu ambacho ni kinyume na dhamira yake, ukweli na mantiki yake au kile ambacho kinaonekana kwa makusudi kimetengezwa ili kumkandamiza.


    Wanaoamini kuwa sheria hii ni halali na kuwa mchakato ni halali wanayo haki ya kujitokeza kwa furaha kwenda kutoa maoni yao. Wale ambao wanaamini mchakato huu umesurp power ya wananchi na kuwa umelazimishwa wanayo haki ya kukaaa kushiriki na kuhamasishana kutoshiriki hadi hoja zao zisikilizwe vinginevyo wanalo jukumu la kuhakikisha kuwa itakapokuja kura ya maoni wataenda na kuhamasishana kupigia kura ya "hapana" hiyo referendum na kuzuia Katiba Mpya itakayopitishwa na wana CCM.

    Wanaweza kukataa kusikiliza maoni juu ya mchakato na wanaweza kabisa kulazimisha watu waje kwenye tume yao lakini watakapoletwa swali hilo kwa wananchi hawana namna ya kuwazuia wale wasioshiriki mjadala kupiga kura ya hapana. Unless waseme watakaopiga kura ya maoni ni WALE TU walioshiriki kwenye kutoa maoni! Kitu ambacho hakimo kwenye mswada huu hadi waufanyie mabadiliko.
     
  3. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Ndugu Pasco, other than "imput" which i think you meant input and "bettle" battle, kuna hoja ya msingi kwenye bandiko lako.

    Nasubiri majibu kwa hamu.
     
  4. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Nov 20, 2011
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    Mie sikubaliani kabisa na hoja yako. CHADEMA sasa hivi wafanye lolote lile wanaloweza kulifanya ili kuhakikisha kwamba utaratibu wa kuipata katiba mpya unakuwa na muelekeo ambao utahakikisha kwamba katiba mpya itakayopatikana itakuwa ni kwa maslahi ya Tanzania na Watanzania wote bila kujali wapo upande upi kiitikadi.

    Magamba wanataka kuuteka nyara huu mjadala wa katiba na kuiandika wanavyotaka wao ili kuhakikisha katiba inaandikwa katika namna ambayo itawahakikishia magamba kuendelea kuwa madarakani milele.
     
  5. MKWECHE

    MKWECHE JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Nov 20, 2011
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    Wamwombe Nani Msamaha!
    Maoni ya Kambi rasmi ya Upinzani chini ya Mh.tundu lissu yalikuwa Tight ile mbaya!
    Wamechambua na Kudadavua Mswada ndani na nje jamaa hawa wapo safi!CCM iache kutumia msuli bora wakae na jamaa wa CDM
    Vinginezo wanaweza umbuka mbele ya safari!Tupo na tuombe Uhai ili tuone
     
  6. Mumwi

    Mumwi JF-Expert Member

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    Najua Hilo swali ulimuuliza Tundu Lissu na lilijibiwa japokuwa weweulisema huna chama lakini unaeleweka umeegemea upande gani.
     
  7. K

    Kikwebo JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Nov 20, 2011
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    CDM wengi humu ni mbumbu wa sheria na watu wakufuata mkumbo tu. Wao wanamchukulia mh. Lisu kama Mungu na hakosei hata kidogo.

    Mfano uliotoa kuhusu ushauri wake kwa mh Mbowe na kilichomtokea ni kielelezo cha imani ya kibubusa kwa mwanasheria huru kijana.

    Utakachokipata humu ni matusi tu badala ya admission of mistakes.
     
  8. dedam

    dedam JF-Expert Member

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    huyu ni pascal mayala anajificha tumeshakujua babu
     
  9. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Nov 20, 2011
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    MMM,

    Nilivyomwelewa Pasco,ni kwamba CHADEMA wame imiss opportunity ya kuusimamisha na kuuzuia usisomwe mara ya pili kwa kutumia kifungu cha 86.

    Wewe kwa upande wakonaona unapinga kwa kusema lisingewezekana.

    Kwangu mimi hapo ndipo penye msingi wa hoja.

    Je nani mkweli,nasubiri kuona kama ni kweli kuna namna ambayo CDHADEMA wangeweza kuzuia kama alivyosema Pasco.
     
  10. de'levis

    de'levis JF-Expert Member

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    tangu juzi pasco amekomalia kanuni ya 86....kwa mazingira yaliyokuwepo hata kama wangetuia kanuni hiyo nakuambia isingeleta mabadiliko yoyote maana ccm A na B walikuwa wameshapikwa.....chadema kwa njia waliyotumia bado wako sahihi....hivi nikuulize pasco wewe unaona huu mchakato wote wa huu mswaada na kupitishwa kwakwe umefata taratibu??
     
  11. Mumwi

    Mumwi JF-Expert Member

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    We ni Pasco Mayalla tu maana tulikuona ukiuliza hayo maswali.

     
  12. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Hata yule SAS ambaye ni kada wa Magamba naye ni mbumbu ndio maana aliona umuhimu wa kuishauri Serikali ikae na CHADEMA katika kuhakikisha Katiba mpya inaungwa mkono na Watanzania wote bila kujali itikadi zao.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    MJADALA wa Muswada wa Katiba Mpya umechukua sura mpya baada ya viongozi waandamizi wa Serikali wakiwamo wastaafu, kutaka upatikane mwafaka wa kitaifa kuhusu suala hilo vinginevyo taifa litaelekea kubaya.Onyo la viongozi hao akiwamo Waziri Mkuu wa zamani, Dk Salim Ahmed Salim na Mkurugenzi Mkuu mstaafu wa Idara ya Usalama wa Taifa , Dk Hassy Kitine, linakuja ikiwa ni siku chache baada ya Naibu Kiongozi wa Upinzani Bungeni, Zitto Kabwe kutaka mwafaka huo wa kitaifa.

    SAKATA LA KATIBA Dk Salim: CCM kaeni na Chadema

     
  13. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Ok mkuu,kama ni yeye rudi basi jibu hoja.
     
  14. L

    LAT JF-Expert Member

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    hahaaa haaaaa

    modality ya kuzuia muswada kama hoja iliyowakiliswa bungeni ikoje?

    kwa kura ya sauti ya ndiyo au hapana !

    pasco, you have stepped on shit
     
  15. UmkhontoweSizwe

    UmkhontoweSizwe JF-Expert Member

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    Pasco, hata sikuelewi. Unachotaka kusema hapa ni kwamba kwa kuwa mswada wa sheria umeshapitishwa na rais amesema atautia sahihi basi wale wote wasiokubaliana na utaratibu uliotumika basi wasalimu amri na kunyamaza. How strange! Hicho unachokipigia chapuo hapa ni kwamba, serikali ikipitisha sheria ya aina yoyote, haijalishi sheria hiyo ni kandamizi kiasi gani, basi watu wote wanyamaze na kufuata sheria kama kondoo. It doesn't make sense to me.
    Chadema wanatakiwa kukomaa na kuja na plan B.
     
  16. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

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    Lisu amekupiga chenga? Acha sifa mkuu.
     
  17. Mumwi

    Mumwi JF-Expert Member

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    Alishaibiwa na Lissu
     
  18. Mumwi

    Mumwi JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Alishajibiwa na Lissu
     
  19. Rejao

    Rejao JF-Expert Member

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    Endeleeni kuumana tu!
    Nitakuja kusoma conclusion. Thanx Pasco for useful post
     
  20. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Hakuna namna ambayo CDM wangeweza kuzuia mjadala wa mswada. NONE. Ibara ya 86 haitoi automatic stay au halt ya mjadala. Inatoa nafasi tu kwa hoja kusikilizwa halafu Spika awaulize wabunge ili kuchukua uamuzi. Hiyo kanuni ishawahi kutumika kwenye mambo mengine huko nyuma..
     
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