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Kagoda wamerudisha fedha, bado mnataka kuwajua?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
    Mar 31, 2009
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
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    Manji alirudisha fedha kwa niabaya "Kagoda" akidai kuwa aliyehusika ni marehemu baba yake. Serikali ikapokea fedha hizo na kuzijumlisha kwenye ile jumla ya Rais.

    a. Kama wamerudisha fedha na serikali imekubali kupokea kuna haja ya kujua nani alifanya kosa kweli?

    b. Kama serikali imekubali kupokea fedha hizo ina maana imekubali maelezo ya Manji na hivyo "case closed"?

    c. Kama fedha zilizochukuliwa kwa kiasi kikubwa ndizo zilizotumika kumuingiza JK madarakani na sasa kazirudisha bado mnataka kumbana?

    d. Rostam ndiye aliyehusika na kutumiwa kama alivyohusika kwenye Dowans na kutumiwa kwanini ni nani anaweza kumnyoshea kidole wakati wao wanajua bila yeye wasingeweza kuingia madarakani? NI kweli huwezi kumgusa Rostam bila kugusa karibu nusu ya Wabunge na Rais na huwezi kumuachilia bila kuachikilia kesi kadhaa za kifisadi! So what do you do?

    e. Je kwa kujaribu kujifanya wanaichunguza Kagoda wakati tayari wanajua ni nani (ni wao wenyewe!) kwanini wasije tu na kusema mbele ya wananchi kuwa "Kagoda ndiyo sisi! hatukujijua na tumegundua kuwa tulikuwa tumezichota wakati tumelala, lakini tumezirudisha yaishe"!? vinginevyo kwanini wanajifanya kana kwamba hawajui Kagoda ni nani wakati wamepokea fedha kutoka kwake!?

    f. Je wananchi wanasababu yoyote ya kujua Kagoda ni hata kama wamesharudisha fedha na fedha zishaliwa? Manake hawawezi kumkamata Manji (aliyerudisha) wala Rostam (aliyechukua kwa kutumia vyombo vyake kwa niaba yake na ya chama chake (hakufanya kama charity work!)

    g. Sasa kwanini DPP asije tu na kusema kuwa hili haliwezi (kwani linamgusa Rais moja kwa moja!).


    h. Kwanini Wabunge na watu mashuhuri ndani ya CCM au wana CCM hawaandamani kutaka Kagoda ifiikishwe mahakamani na wahusika wote wafikishwe mahakamani kama wanavyoshangilia kina Mramba kufikishwa mahakamani. Je mtu anaweza kuufikisha mkono wake wa kushoto mahakamani bila ye yeye mwenyewe kuwa huko huko mahakamani?

    La Kagoda tulimalize vipi baada ya kujua kuwa fedha zimerudishwa, wezi wanajulikana, zilipita wapi inajulikana na zirudi nchini kwa namna gani inajulikana?

    well... I was just thinking out loud. Nauliza nilivyowahi kuuliza huko nyuma kwenye hili la Kagoda tukubali yaishe? Au tuendelee kugangamala huku tukijua "haliwaki" hata tulisukume na "kushtua"?
     
  2. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Mzee, leo umEfanya siku yangu kuwa very good huku Simanjiro... hasa nikiangalia hali ilivyo mbaya na matatizo ya umeme na mashimo ya mbu tele!!

    THANKS FOR KEEPING US ON OUR TOES [AT LEAST BY THINKING OF THESE ISSUES EVERYDAY]
     
  3. FairPlayer

    FairPlayer JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Kama hela imerudi sijui mnataka nini tena.

    Labda wanataka INTEREST..
     
  4. Baba_Enock

    Baba_Enock JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Mzee,

    Uwezi kustua gari lilo-knock Engine. Hapo ndiyo mwisho wake! Kama pato linaruhusu nunua gari nyingine au vipi endelee kutembea kwa miguu mpaka sori za viatu siishe ebo!
     
  5. Semilong

    Semilong JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Mar 31, 2009
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    MKJJ naomba ulifikirie hili kwa makini
    kama unavyosema hizo hela zimetumika katika kampeni CCM, inamaanisha zimetumika hazikuwekwa benki ili zizae riba.

    swali gumu, wamepata wapi hizo hela nyingine za kurudisha?

    CCM/manji/ra/kagoda wamepata wapi $30m walizorudisha?
    ku raise $30m in TZ sio mchezo?

    Nakukatalia hela haijarudishwa zimechukuliwa sehemu moja zikapelekwa kwingine wazungu wanakuambia "creative accounting"

    "MKJJ umezungushwa kwenye roundabout ya samora"

    mtihani, hela iliyorudishwa imetoka wapi? shimo limeachwa wapi?
    maana yake hela yote ilitumika katika kampeni...

    mchana mwema....
     
  6. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Hii kitu ni ngumu sana mkuu, hela imerudi? nani karudisha? na je, tunajiridhisha vipi kuwa fedha hiyo imerudi kweli au tunaushahidi gani?

    Hii kwangu mimi ni sawa na kesi ya mkono wako wa kulia kuupelekea mkono wa kushoto usuluhishe!

    Haya mazingaombwe tu in my view!!
     
  7. A

    AMETHYST Senior Member

    #7
    Mar 31, 2009
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    MKJJ, ilrudishwa lini kwa maana ya tarehe na mwezi
    Ilirudishwa wapi? BoT, Benn Ndulu anajua hili ama ilipelekwa Ikulu
    na ilitumikaje? ama ndo hiyo hiyo imetokea uarabuni kwa file la mfanyakanzi na mahojiano na kanzi?

    Kama walihonga kwenye kampeni, wameipata wapi kuirudisha..
    Maswali ni mengi, ila kwa hili la kagoda..na EPA, injini imenock na mechanic wa repair hayupo
     
  8. Zak Malang

    Zak Malang JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Waongo, hela hazijarudi. Ni changa la macho. Kama ni hivyo serikali ingeweza kupunguza msongamano ktk magereza yake -- wangewaambia wafungwa wote walioiba warudishe walichoiba ili yaishe.

    Halafu hii ya mtu kurudisha hela anazoiba ili yaishe -- inatokana na sheria gani ya nchi? Tuelezwe tujuwe kwamba mshitakiwa wa wizi anaweza kupata nafuu kwa kutumia sheria hiyo. Ilianza kwa Dr kitine alipoagizwa na Bunge kurejesha fedha alizoiba yeye na mkewe. Kwa kuhukumu kesi hiyo, Muhimili wa Bunge ulikuwa unapora madaraka ya ule Muhimili wa wa Mahakama.

    Katika EPA, muhimili wa Utawala ndiyo umepora mamlaka ya ule wa Mahakama kwa kutoa hukumu hiyo ya kurejeshwa hela za EPA. Mapema Agosti mwaka jana JK alikuwa Jaji, na ukumbi wa Bunge ukawa mahakama pale alipotoa hukumu ya alternative kwa watuhumiwa wa wizi wa EPA, kwamba warejeshe hadi October 31, ama sivyo.....

    Jaji Mkuu Agostino Ramadhani alikuwa right kulalamika kuwa Mihimili ya Utawala na Bunge hushirikiana kuupora Muhimili wake madaraka/majukumu.
     
  9. Msanii

    Msanii JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Mar 31, 2009
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    ..Sijapata kuona hekima kama hii.
    Mwenye AKILI na afahamu kwamba hizi ndizo nyakati za kujikusahihisha....
    Lakini kwa kuwa shina la uharibifu limekomaza mizizi yake, dawa yake ni kuling'oa na kulitupa motoni wakati wake (uchaguzi) ukiwadia.
     
  10. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #10
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    Hela imerudi! Imetoka wapi hilo swali jingine kabisa! ilirudishwa vipi ni swali jingine kabisa.. iliporudishwa iliwekwa wapi (no siyo benki kuu!)... nalo ni swali jingine. Kwa ufupi, ukijaribu kuendelea kumwangalia bata anavyokula hutamla!

    Kuhusu Kagoda watu wanachotaka ni nini hasa?

    a. Kujua wahusika
    b. Fedha kurudishwa
    c. Kujua mchakato mzima wa kurudishwa
    d. Wahusika kuchukuliwa hatua (uwezekano wa hilo ni 0)
    e. Rais kukubali kuwa la Kagoda ni gumu, lakini "tumshukuru Mungu fedha zimerudishwa kama tulivyoahidi na sasa zinatumika kwenye kilimo"
    f. Yote hapo juu!

    Je nikiwaambia kuwa kati ya yote mnayotaka walichotayari kutoa ni (b) mtafanya nini? Mtaendelea kulalamika, mtasikitika, mtakereka and then what!? Mkubali yaishe.
     
  11. A

    AMETHYST Senior Member

    #11
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Tangia hapo, mkuu wa nchi alishasema kuwa wanachotaka ni fedha kurudi na salva na DPP na Hosea wanadai kuwa kuwafichua kagoda nchi itatikisika maana ni mkuu mwenyewe aliponea hapo kuukwaa ukuu wa nchi...basi ndio dola letu la kibabe babe...ila basi useme fedha zimerudishwa lini? na je ni zote Bilioni 40 zilizochotwa ama sehemu tu?
    Huko kilimoni ni wapi mbona sioni mashamba yakinawiri kwa hizo fedha?
     
  12. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

    #12
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    Aseme mara ngapi mkuu. Nipashe ya leo ina habari inayosema: "DCI Manumba: Uchunguzi wa 'mdudu' kagoda hauzungumziki. Hata kama kauli hii haitoki direct kwa DPP, lakini naamini hawa wote (DPP na DCI) wanawakilisha mamlaka ileile, hivyo, kauli zao ni hizohizo
     
  13. M

    Mtu Kwao JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Hawa mafisadi ni kuwasubiri tu 2010.vinginevyo hatuwawezi.na kama Kanzi kamenusu huko Dubai basi kazi ipo wakuu.
     
  14. A

    August JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Zinaweza kuwa zimerudi through miradi mingi ambayo ni kanyaboya, kama Richmond aka Dowans, TRL ambao ndio hao hao investors wetu cum Viongozi wetu, Artumas etc etc
     
  15. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna makubwa ,kama serikali iliyopo madarakani ilichukua fedha kwa njia ya wiziwizi na au zilitolewa kiwiziwizi ,na washiriki ni wao basi serikali ijiuzulu kwani wezi.
    Je ni kweli wizi ulisaidia CCM ishinde na je fedha yote iliyoibiwa ilitumiwa na CCM ,lazima wakajibie mahakamani ,japo ya Geneva ,yale ya Mwakiembe kuambizana wenyewe kwa wenyewe wayamalize wajue ikiwa hawatayamaliza leo basi pindi mwakani atakekuwa hai ataubeba na kubebeshwa msalaba.
     
  16. Zak Malang

    Zak Malang JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    "Hela imerudi! Imetoka wapi hilo swali jingine kabisa! ilirudishwa vipi ni swali jingine kabisa.. iliporudishwa iliwekwa wapi (no siyo benki kuu!)... nalo ni swali jingine. Kwa ufupi, ukijaribu kuendelea kumwangalia bata anavyokula hutamla!...."

    *************************

    Mzee MKJJ: Nashangaa unashikilia kuwa Kagoda alirudisha. Naomba tupatie uthibitisho, naona bila shaka unao!

    Mimi nasena hela za Kagoda hazijarudi. Perios. danyanya toto tu! Zilitumika kumwingiza JK Ikulu, sasa zitoke wapi tena zile za kurejesha? Bilioni 40 ni pesa nyingi mno, ukumbuke!

    Kama zilirudi wanapata kigugumizi cha nini? Si waseme tu (kwa kupitia taarifa rasmi ya serikali na siyo habari za kupenyezwa kiujanjaujanja tu ktk magazeti fulani fulani) kwamba "Kagoda wamerudisha hela Sh........ tarehe ......... na mrudishaji ni.......na kuhifadhiwa (mahala)........ na kwa hiyo walioiba hela hizo hawatafunguliwa mashitaka chini ya kifungu cha sheria ..... ya mwaka......

    Mzee, jee, tumeambiwa kwamba hao wa EPA waliofikishwa mahakamani ni wale waliorudisha, au waliroudisha pungufu, au namna gani? Giza tupu kwa Watanzania milioni 40! Kuna kitu hapa na kwa vile Mama Anne Kilango kapata tuzo, basi bila shaka imempa ujasiri zaidi agangamale ili tuzione hizo za Kagoda (na nyingine 'zilizorejeshwa') zikiwa ndani ya viroba. Kwako AK!
     
  17. Recta

    Recta JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    Ndio, haja ipo. Tusipojua leo kuwa pesa ziliibiwaje, na nani, kesho watarudia tena, wao au wengine kama wao. Wizi wa aina hii ni wa kihistoria. Ni wa kihistoria kwa kuwa umetumika kuweka uongozi wa nchi madarakani. Ni lazima iandikwe vizuri, bila kupindishwa.

    Hapana. Ikiwa imepokea pesa hizo kutoka kwa Manji, ina maana imekubali maelezo ya Manji na hivyo ina ushahidi wa kutosha kufikisha wahusika mahakamani. Hakuna ushahidi mzuri zaidi ya huo. Ushahidi huo umekamilika na unatosha.


    Ndio, ni vyema akabanwa. Kwanza kwa kuwa, pamoja na kutumia pesa za umma kwa njia zisizokubalika, ametumia kushinda uchaguzi uliotakiwa kuwa huru na wa haki. Alitakiwa agawie na wagombea wenzake wote waliojitokeza kwenye nafasi ya Urais ili walau kuwe na fair game. Kushinda kwa kutumia njia za ubadhirifu ni kosa la jinai.


    Kesi ya Rostam anatakiwa kujibu Rostam. Kama ataweza kuthubutu kutaja aliokula nao, na kuthibitisha kiasi wenzake walichokula, afanye hivyo.

    Vyombo vinavyohusika kuchunguza na kuchukua hatua za makosa ya jinai vinatakiwa kufanya kazi yake. Visipofanya hivyo, haitanishangaza kusikia baada ya awamu hii kukawa na kesi nyingi zaidi za ukiukwaji wa matumizi ya madaraka kwa viongozi wengi waliokuwa katika nafasi za juu, ubadhilifu na makosa mengine ya jinai


    Kwa kufanya hivyo, watakuwa wameandika historia mpya ya nchi hii. Ila ninaamini kuwa hawatathubutu kufanya hivyo kwakuwa watakuwa wamejimaliza kisiasa na kijamii mpaka mwisho wa maisha yao.

    Wananchi wana haki ya kujua mwizi wao. Maisha duni ya wananchi na hali ngumu ya uchumi wetu inalazimu kujua nani wanaotufikisha hapa tulipo.

    Wote (Manji na Rostam) wanakamatika. Hawana kinga yoyote. Ni wananchi kama wengine wote. Wanashitakika, wanakamatika.


    Ameshasema kwa maneno mengine


    Muundo wa CCM ni kulindana kwa kujadiliana ndani ya vikao ambavyo viko controlled. Hakuna uwezekano wa viongozi wa CCM kuandamana kulaani matendo ya wakuu wao. Hawawezi kuufikisha mkono wa kushoto mahakamani bila wao kuwepo mahakamani. Japokuwa, wanaweza kuukata, wakavumilia maumivu na baadae wakapata tiba ya kudumu (si ndivyo tufanyavyo tukigundua mwanzo wa Cancer?)



    La Kagoda litafika mwisho tu, inaweza isiwe leo wala kesho ila litakapofika mwisho, litafika mwisho mbaya sana. NI afadhali likafika mwisho mapema. Ila kadiri linavyochelewa kufika mwisho, ndivyo linavyokuwa baya kwa waliolifanikisha.

    Tunachotakiwa sote kufanya ni kuweka kumbukumbu zetu vizuri, kuendeleza mapambano hadi haki itakapopatikana kwa wanaofia mahospitali, wanaokosa kusoma, wanaofukuzwa shule, wanaokosa mlo wa siku, wanaokufa kwenye ajali za barabara (vichochocro), wanaovunjiwa nyumba zao ili wakubwa wapewe maeneo yao, wanaokosa kazi za kufanya na hivyo kukosa heshima (kujiamini, kukimu hali zao n.k.), wanaoshindwa hata kuwa na uhakika wa usalama wao (endapo moto utaunguza vibanda vyao au wezi watawanyang'anya kidogo kilichobaki). Hao na wengine wengi wanadhoofika kila kukicha kwa ubadhilifu wa mafisadi wa Taifa hili. Mapambano yaendelee ili kujenga nchi yenye neema. iyo ndio njia pekee.
     
  18. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Kama hii ripoti ni sawa

    Kuna haja ya kujua nani kafanya kosa, kwanza kwa sababu justice system inatakiwa kujua nani alifanya kosa ili kujua nini kifanyike.Hatuwezi kukubali tu kwa sababu tumeambiwa na Manji kuwa baba yake ndiye aliyehusika, tunataka kujua ilitokea lini? Alishirikiana na nani ndani na nje ya serikali? Tunataka kujua majibu ya maswali haya matatu ya ki=Nixon nani alijua? alijua lini? na alifanya nini na habari hii?

    Kukubali kupokea fedha hakuna maana kuwa maelezo ya Manji yamekubalika na swala limemalizwa. Ukiiba na kulazimika kurudisha fedha (naongelea entity ya kikampuni, regardless ya the person kama ni Manji au marehemu baba yake, we all know dead bodies don't talk) so ukiiba na kurudisha fedha hilo halimalizi kesi, kwa sababu kama lingekuwa linamaliza kesi kuiba kusingekuwa na repercusions na kila mtu asiye na moral restrain asingekuwa na disincentive ya kuiba, watu wangekuwa wanaiba tu, the worst that could happen unakamatwa na kurudisha ulichoiba, unabaki pale pale, no jailtime, no repercussion.

    Kwa nini tusimbane? This is a matter of justice, a matter of precedent, a matter of demonstrating our seriousness in our commitment to the issue of economic sabotage, which this amounts to, and a matter every sane and upright Tanzanian should pursue to the fullest, if only to set the record straight and avoid suchlike future catastrophic pitfalls.

    Even more reason why ordinary Tanzanians, the press, pressure groups such as JF and independent minded patriots with a robust constitution, reasonably unquestionable integrity and a healthy appetite for aggrandizing the scope of a society based on a just socio-economic system should step up to the plate and take charge in this defining moment in our country's history.Economic freedom and social prosperity are often not handed on a silver plate, instead they must be adamantly fought for and vehemently protected.

    Kwa sababu that would be self incriminating, and the docility of the Tanzanian people notwithstanding, the scenario could easily end up with either jail time and disgrace or social mayhem and loss of power.It is against human nature to be self incriminating, especially if one can afford not to be.The Americans even have a constitutional amendment (the fifth) to that effect.

    Sababu, kuanzia za rekodi, precedent, kuhakiki n.k zimetolewa hapo juu.

    DPP is part of the racket, being a political post and presidential appointee he is one of the custodian of the status quo and gatekeeper.The DPP does not even aspire to have the level of integrity suggested by (g), let alone posses it.

    Wabunge wengi wa CCM wamepewa hela za wizi kupiga kampeni. Ni kama CCM ilikuwa inanunua "insurance policy" for a rainy day, kwamba ili kuwafunga mdomo wabunge wake mapema, iliwapa fedha za ufisadi.Sasa kama kuna mbunge anaweza kufanya kweli (zaidi ya hizi danganya toto za kila siku) atakumbushwa tu "Unamsema sana Rostam na ufisadi? Unakumbuka zile milioni 200 wakati wa uchaguzi? Unajua zilitoka wapi? Kwa Rostam, sasa endelea kupiga kelele uone tutakavyokusambaratisha".Sometimes not in thise exact blunt words, but the message is clear anyway.Even the president himself is held hostage in this dirty game.that is why you have commitee after commitee with no results, at best you get a "Bangusilo" every now and then.

    Kwanza wananchi wa demand uwazi ili kuwawajibisha watawala kufanya kazi yao.Halafu kama watawala wamehusika moja kwa moja wanakosa neutrality ya kuweza kulishughulikia, tunahitaji msaada zaidi. Who will watch over the watchers? JF and it's ilk will, maybe a Scotland Yard or something, as colonialist and shameful as it sounds, their cousins at the SFO exposed Chenge right? Shameful, but what other options do we really have? Say Kikwete is involved, do you expect any semblance of fairness?

    Kukubali yaishe ni kukubali yajirudie, inabidi tujue nini kilitokea, lini kilitokea, nani mshiriki mkuu, nani muandamizi, nani alijua na kila mtu alifanya nini.

    Then tuendelee kuwabana kama nilivyosema hapo juu.
     
  19. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #19
    Mar 31, 2009
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    Je iundwe tume ya Ukweli na Upatanisho (Truth and Reconciliation)?
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    Tumechoka na tume, tume ya ukweli na upatanisho iundwe na nani? Kupatanisha nini? Ukweli na upatanisho pekee utakaoeleweka ni watu kuenda jela na fedha kurudishwa.
     
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