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JK: Viongozi wa siasa acheni kauli za uchochezi mgogoro kati ya Tz na Malawi

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by oyaoya, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. o

    oyaoya JF-Expert Member

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    Wakuu,
    JK kawataka wanasiasa kuacha kutoa kauli za kichochezi kwa kuwa tunaweza tusiwe na ubavu wa kuwapiga Malawi. Mpaka upo ukingoni mwa ziwa upande wa Tanzania. Majadiliano yanaendelea kutafuta wa kutusuluhisha kwa kuwa Malawi wamekataa MAOMBI ya Tz kuweka mpaka katikati ya ziwa kama sheria ya kimataifa inavyotaka.

    My take: JK ameonyesha ushupavu na ukomavu kisiasa kwa kutotoa kauli za kuiprovoke Malawi lakini lengo kufanikisha mpaka uwe katikati ya ziwa kwa gharama YOYOTE tukianza na mazungumzo
    Source: TBC
     
  2. OLESAIDIMU

    OLESAIDIMU JF-Expert Member

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    Tunaweza tukawa hatuna uwezo au ndo hatuna???
     
  3. Domy

    Domy JF-Expert Member

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    angewaambia live akina EL,membe na 6 waache kujijenga kisiasa kupitia mpaka
     
  4. G

    Gwakisa Mwandule JF-Expert Member

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    Kabla ya ukoloni tulikua tunapata haya maeneo kwa vita na hata walivyokuja wakoloni walipigana ndo wakawa wanayamiliki kabla ya kuamua kugawana kiungwana sasa wakoloni walishaondoka na mipaka walogawana sisi haituhusu maana hatukushirikishwa kugawana na kuendelea kuiheshimu ni kukubali kwamba mpaka leo tupo chini ya ukoloni wao so nashauri turudi kwenye njia zetu za kiafrika mwenye nguvu anachukua nchi ikiwezekana sio ziwa tu hata ardhi iliobaki hivyo JK acha kutuchanganya watanzani tunataka kupigana na Malawi kama tukishhindwa tuwe wote wamalawi!!Tukiwachapa wamalawi wote wawe watanzania msitulee mambo yenu mara diplomasia sijui nini diplomasia yenyewe hamuijui mnachojua ninyi ni ufisadi umalaya na ujambazi wa kutembea na SMG mawilimawili sasa mbona mnaogopa vita?Wewe Jk kama huamini jeshi lako sisi watanzania tena raia tutawapiga wamalawi au tutapigwa na wamalawi lakini huna mandate yakutufundisha kuhusu nchi yetu,maana miongoni mwa mawaziri wako akina mkulo ni wamalawi sasa cha ajabu nini?Au hujasikia mpinzani wa malawi anaitwa Undule Mwakasungura?Kinyakyusa Maana yake Unisaidie Sasa unaogopaogopa nini kaa kimya ******!!!!Acha wanyambara tufanye kazi wewe kacheze ngoma msoga
     
  5. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

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  6. Dotworld

    Dotworld JF-Expert Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  7. The Son of Man

    The Son of Man JF-Expert Member

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    Aende kwenye cc yao akawaambie kina Membe, 6 na Laiboni!!!! Siyo kutusumbua tu kwenye kichupa!!!!
     
  8. o

    oyaoya JF-Expert Member

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    Acha jazba mkuu, tambua tamko la Umoja wa Mataifa linataka nchi zote kuheshimu mipaka iliyowekwa na wakoloni, ukiingia kichwa kichwa kama unavyotaka mkuu Jumuiya za kimataifa zitakutenga.
     
  9. tatanyengo

    tatanyengo JF-Expert Member

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    Tunaomba hotuba iliyotoa leo kwa taifa...Nimekuta anamalizia kwa kuwaasa waandishi wa habari na wanasiasa kuepuka kutoa kauli za uchochezi kuhusu suala la mpaka.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  10. tatanyengo

    tatanyengo JF-Expert Member

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    Hapo kwenye RED kama rais ndo kasema hivyo amewasaidia wa -Malawi: Kwamba mpaka uko ukingoni mwa ziwa upande wa Tanzania!!!!!
     
  11. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    teh teh teh..and one wonders who is really incharge!Mbona wanasiasa wanasema yale wasiopaswa kusema?
     
  12. o

    oyaoya JF-Expert Member

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    Amesema ni kwa mujibu wa makubaliano ya wakoloni kwenye Heligoland treaty tangu 1889. Wakoloni walikataa kurekebisha mpaka huo hata kabla ya nchi hizi kupata uhuru.
    Wakoloni waliipa Nyasaland ziwa lote na JK amekiri kuwa kulikuwa na makosa kwny mkataba huo kuipa Malawi ziwa lote
    Tunasimamia sheria ya kimataifa tu kuwa popote penye maji baina ya nchi 2, basi mpaka upo katikati.
     
  13. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa mmemsikia. Jakaya Kikwete, Rais wa Tanzania anakubali kwamba mpaka hadi sasa unapita pembeni ya ziwa na siyo katikati.

    Jakaya Kikwete anasema anaamini mazungumzo yanaoyoendelea yatamaliza suala hilo. Jakaya Kikwete anasema mazungumzo yakishindikana tutalipeleka kwenye vyombo vya kimataifa.

    Suala la kupeleka kwenye vyombo vya kimataifa Nikupateje na wachache humu JF hatukuyumba kusema ndivyo linavyotakiwa.

    Genge la wengi walikombilia kudhani kwamba wanasoema hivi ni wamalawi sasa waseme je, Jakaya Kikwete ni mmalawi?

    Hivyo hadi hapa binafsi sijatofautiana na Jakaya Kikwete na hata ukisoma thread zangu ni hivyo.

    Jakaya Kikwete anasema kwa maoni yake haoni kwa nini tushindwe tukienda kwenye vyombo vya kimataifa. Hoja yake ni kwamba mpaka wetu kwenye mto Songwe ni katikati ya mto.

    Lakini Kikwete anaongeza kwamba kama Mozambique wamepewa mpaka kuwa katikati basi principle hiyohiyo iweje isitumike na kwetu pia.

    Binafsi kama Nikupateje nina reservations katika comment hiz za Rais japo amezitoa kama Jakaya Kikwete na si kama Rais wa Tanzania.

    Kimsingi naona Kikwete asingezungumza ingawa ni haki yake kama Jakaya Kikwete. Nasema hivyo kwa nini?

    Nina mashaka sana na wanaomzunguka Rais wetu na kuongea naye suala hili. Inaelekea wanaliongea kwa ushabiki bila kumpa ukweli kamili. Rais unapotoa mawazo yako kumbuka kwamba si wote watakuona kama mtu binafsi bali wapo wengi tele wataona kama ndiyo msimamo wa nchi.

    Hebu tuangalie mifano ya mto Songwe na Mozambique. Tuanze na mto Songwe. Aticle 1(2) ya Heligoland-1890 ndiyo iliyoeleza wazi kwamba mpaka unapita pembeni ya ziwa lakini ikotoka hapo ziwani unaingia mto Songwe. Kwa nukuu insema hiv:
    {To the south by the line that starts on the coast of the northern border of Mozambique Province and follows the course of the Rovuma River to the point where the Messinge flows into the Rovuma. From here the line runs westward on the parallel of latitude to the shore of Lake Nyasa. Turning north, it continues along the eastern, northern, and western shores of the lake until it reaches the northern bank of the mouth of the Songwe River. It then continues up that river to its intersection point with the 33rd degree of east longitude. The line continues along the river until its closest point with the border of the geographical Congo Basin as described in Article I of the Berlin Conference and marked on the map appended to its ninth protocol. From here the line runs directly to the previously described border, follows this to the point of intersection with the 32nd degree of east longitude, turns and continues directly to the meeting point of the northern and southern branches of the Kilambo River. It follows that river until it enters Lake Tanganyika.}

    Ukisoma article yote utaona kwamba mipaka ya hizi nchi zetu ilifuata ama mistari iliyonyooka hasa latitude, longitude au diagonal kama mpaka wetu na Kenya. Kama si hivyo basi mito na maziwa vilikuwa ndiyo mipaka.

    Katika point hii ni kwamba Heligoland-1890 ilisema wazi kwamba mpaka haukuacha ziwa Malawi liangukie kwetu yaani Germany East Africa. Lakini iliacha sehemu za mto ziangukie kwetu.

    Si kwamba Germany na Britain walisahau usawa wa kugawana Lake Malawi. Hapana. Ingekuwa ni kusahau mbona wangesahau na Lake Tanganyika. Ukisoma tena unaona kabisa kwennye Lake Tanganyika mkataba umesema wazi mpaka utaingia ndani ya Ziwa (..It follows that river until it enters Lake Tanganyika..}. English iliyotumika hapa ni rahisi hata darasa la nne anajua kwamba mpaka umeingia ndai ya Ziwa Tanganyika lakini haukuingia ndai ya ziwa Malawi.

    Sasa, tujiulize. Kwa nini kwenye ziwa Malawi haukuingia? Kuna wanaosema sisi tunasahauliwa maslahi yetu hasa watanzania wanaoishi kandoni mwa ziwa. Ukweli ni kwamba hoja hizi ni finyu ingawa zimejengwa kiushabiki kwamba ukizipinga utashambuliwa kama mshabiki wa Yanga anavyoshambuliwa akiingia kwenye ngome ya washabiki wa Simba.

    Ukitetea hoja hii maana yake unajifanya kabis akusahau kuwa aliyelitoa ziwa hili kwenda Malawi alikuwa mjinga kutofikiri maslahi ya watu wetu watakaoishi upande wetu. Lakini hawa hawakumbuki kwamba kugawana kule mipaka ilikuwa ni kuendeleza himaya za nchi zao na ndiyo maana kipindi kile kiliitwa imperialism. Isingekuwa historical events basi leo sisi tungekuwa bado ni Germany East Africa na Malawi wangekuwa ni sehemu ya Britain kama zilivyo Australia, Canada na New Zerland.

    Hivi unadhani Germany haikuliona hilo? Kwamba baadaye settlers kutoka Germany wangekuja wakakaa pembeni ya ziwa hili halafu wasiipigie kelele serikali yao kuhusu mpaka. Ukweli ni kwamba ilifanyika hivi si kama wendawazimu na wala wanaotoa sababu zile si kwamba wamewazidi wajerumani uelewa ila tu ni kwamba hawajui kilichosabaibsha hadi Ujerumani ikazidiwa hoja na kukubali mpaka usiipe nchi yetu tone hata moja la ziwa lile.

    TUje kuhusu Mozambique. Inaelekea hata Kikwete ametumbukia katika mtego waliotumbukia wengi kwamba kule mpaka unapita nusu kwa nusu. Ukweli ni kwamba Msumbiji haikubanwa na Heligoland treaty kwa sababu ilitawaliwa na Portugese.

    Portugal iliamua kuwa na mkataba mwingine na Britain. Mkataba huo si kwmaba uliipa Mozambique nusu kwa nusu. Hapana. Hapa ilifanyika biashara. Msumbiji ilipoteza ardhi kiasi kikubwa upande wa kusini na ardhi hiyo ikapewa Malawi. Ndipi Msumbiji nayo ikapata sehemu ya ziwa inayopita nusu kwa nusu lakini kuanzia Latitude S11.57941 hadi S13.48185.

    Lakini kuanzia latitude S13.48185 hadi S14.43167 linakoishia ziwa Msumbiji haina hata tone moja na mpaka uko mbali kabisa zaidi ya kilomita 36 toka ziwani. Hii sehemu yaani zinazofikia 36km toka ziwani zikaja upande wa Malawi ndizo zilikuwa za Mozambique lakini zikauzwa ziingie Malawi. Narudi mauzo ya eneo hili hayakufanyika kwamba Malawi itoe pesa. Hapana. Malawi ilitoa sehemu ya Ziwa kwa Msumbiji na ndiyo hii leo tunaona kama ni nusu kwa nusu.

    Hata hivyo makubaliano hayo yalisema wazi kwamba pamoja na eneo kuuzwa Msumbiji lakini visiwa vya Lukoma na vingine viwe ni milki ya Malawi. Nilishalizungumza hili kwamba hakuna tofauti hata sisi tukubaliane na Marekani kwamba mkoa wote wa Dodoma uwe ni milki ya Marekani na hiyo status huitwa exclave.

    Leo hii kukianza mgogoro kati ya Msumbiji na Malawi kuhusu ziwa basi Msumbiji watasema basi warudishiwe ile milima na ardhi waliyoitoa kweny emkataba wa wareno na waingereza.

    Hivyo, hiki ndicho Kikwete na wote wanaotoa mfano wa Msubiji walitakiwa kukifahamu. Kikwete anasema wazi kwamba anaamini kwamba tukienda kwenye international mediation tutapata haki anayoamini ni nusu kwa nusu.

    Binafsi siamini kwa sababu tutabanwa kutoa sehemu ya arhdi yetu ili mpaka wetu uingie ndani ya ziwa kama Mozambique ilivyofanya.

    Ila nimemfuahia Kikwete kwa kusema kwamba hiyo ni imani yake na si amri yake. Kwa maana anajua Mahakama za kimataifa zitatoa haki kulingana na ukweli na si kwam mawazo ya Kikwete au Nikupateje au kwa mawazo ya wataalamu wa kuropoka na kuwaita wenzao wamalawi.

    Kwa hali hii hata wale wagumu amewaandaa wayapokee matokeo yoyote yatakayotoka huko kwenye mahakama za kimataifa ambako binafsi ninapenda hili lifike ili tujifunze kuwa watafiti wa kuutafiti ukweli na si kuonyesha mashindano yakuropoka na kupayuka.
     
  14. Rufiji

    Rufiji JF-Expert Member

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    Wanabodi, we have to learn to give credit where is due. On this issue, Kikwete is right on the money.
     
  15. Ruttashobolwa

    Ruttashobolwa JF-Expert Member

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    Kumbe Rufiji

     
  16. Takalani Sesame

    Takalani Sesame JF-Expert Member

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    Hili songi lishanichosha. Liwalo na liwe!
     
  17. U

    Uwezo Tunao JF-Expert Member

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    ................????????????????????????

     
  18. Rufiji

    Rufiji JF-Expert Member

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    Your name speaks for itself...
     
  19. o

    oyaoya JF-Expert Member

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    Oya, uwezo tunao mkuu, acha kushangaa shangaa.
     
  20. Steven Robert Masatu

    Steven Robert Masatu Verified User

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    mtoa mada haupo well informed kwa hii issue ya malawi na tanzania. nakushauri kuna sticky thread uitafute jaribu kuifuatilia kuna kitu unapata then edit alichosema jk. check na thread ya sitta,lowassa na membe, then today jk on utube. chnganya na zako apo utapata jinsi ya kuileta hii thread ya malawi n tz katika hali ya u great thinker.
     
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