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Jenerali Ulimwengu: So homosexuality is unAfrican? What about living on handouts?

Discussion in 'Great Thinkers' started by nngu007, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]
    By JENERALI ULIMWENGU

    Posted Sunday, November 6 2011 at 13:11

    For a country that once had ambitions of becoming a self-reliant nation, Tanzania is a surprisingly donor-dependent place.

    The Arusha Declaration, Julius Nyerere's blueprint for socialism and self-reliance, argued that dependency on external economic assistance would be detrimental to the country's independence.

    In a brief but closely argued document, a strong case was made for reliance on our own resources and treating foreign aid with care, especially shunning financial grants, for whereas loans and credit lines impose the responsibility of repayment, free money makes the recipient a virtual beggar and keeps him beholden to the donor.

    And yet Tanzania, even under the old man himself, went ahead and accepted foreign money, loans and grants, in huge sums, especially in sectors such as education, health and water and sanitation.

    The dependency grew so great that when Olof Palme, the Swedish social democrat who had underwritten Nyerere's education programme, lost power, Tanzanians felt the impact probably more acutely than the Swedes.

    The rightwing government that came in scrapped the whole aid package to Tanzania, declaring, rather cruelly, that we had become a bottomless pit.

    Since then our education programmes have struggled, our schools have staggered along, and our rulers have remained largely clueless as to what we need to do to liberate ourselves from the mire of growing dependency.

    Indeed, a few years ago we reached some benchmark that convinced our donor countries that we had become a highly indebted poor country (HIPC). And we celebrated with a beggar's dance, bowl in hand.

    Our government has continued to borrow and to receive cash handouts in what has come to be known as general budget support (GBS) that gives it unfettered licence to place those monies wherever it pleases.

    At some stage in the past, our beggar practices were streamlined in such a way that we could only borrow or beg to meet capital, or development programmes.

    Now we can borrow to pay government employees and other charges (OT), which gives dependency a new and menacing dynamic.

    This has meant that when a donor government decides to withdraw its GBS grant, the beggar government finds itself in an awkward situation, for whereas a road construction programme can easily be put off or postponed, civil service pay and running the government cannot.

    So, when the Brits announced, a couple of weeks ago, that they intend to cut their GBS handouts, the Tanzanian government put on a brave face, making it appear like it was a small matter. But it's likely to hurt.

    Woman-on-woman also. A man was created specifically to have liaison with a woman, and a woman was created as a tool, exclusively to serve the man, in both productive and reproductive pursuits.

    It is inconceivable that two such tools would dream of having a liaison other than with the man.

    Rather like the tractor dating the combine harvester on the farm.

    Apart from the viewpoint of a woman being a centre for economic and biological production, I do not have much against those who claim that homosexuality is un-African.

    But let us push this macho thing to its logical conclusion.

    No self-respecting African man would let another man pay for his and his wife's and his children's upkeep.

    Indeed, a man who allows that to happen would be considered as having been married by the provider man, call them economic homos.
    Rejecting the one, reject the other too.


    All this was, of course, before David Cameron made his remarks about his intention to cut aid to governments that suppress homosexual rights, so we don't know what the real motive for the aid cut was.

    African men are a macho lot, and for many the very idea of a man-on-man sexual partnership is anathema.

    Woman-on-woman also. A man was created specifically to have liaison with a woman, and a woman was created as a tool, exclusively to serve the man, in both productive and reproductive pursuits.

    It is inconceivable that two such tools would dream of having a liaison other than with the man.

    Rather like the tractor dating the combine harvester on the farm.

    Apart from the viewpoint of a woman being a centre for economic and biological production, I do not have much against those who claim that homosexuality is un-African.

    But let us push this macho thing to its logical conclusion.

    No self-respecting African man would let another man pay for his and his wife's and his children's upkeep.

    Indeed, a man who allows that to happen would be considered as having been married by the provider man, call them economic homos.
    Rejecting the one, reject the other too.






     
  2. ndyoko

    ndyoko JF-Expert Member

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    mhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! this guy is a relly great thinker. huwa na mu admire sana huyu mzee. jamaa anaishi dunia nyingine kabisa. Huenda ndio maana Mwl Nyerere aliwahi hata kumpa u DC huyu jamaa. Sijui kama hao ma DC wa M.kwere kama kuna hata mmoja mwenye 'kichwa' kama cha huyu jamaa.
     
  3. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    Why we hate homosexuality but we live homosexuality?




    Of recently the British Prime Minister advocacy on basic human rights towards the LGTB individuals and other minority groups got an overwhelming disapproval to an extent our National leaders were ready to forgive the British financial aid to our budget that we highly depends on just to justify their staunch refusal to accept the acknowledgement of first their rights and second even refusing the existence of LGTB people in our societies; citing the practice is a Western import! I as an independent observer, I differ with those harsh sentiments from our leaders and I start with stating my obsession towards family values though I can't advance provocation to Cameron to an extent of denying our society is made of such minority groups also!

    As a foundation of family; each one of us (Africans esp.) understands the composition of a complete family on norms, traditions, morals and customs acceptance to be single mother + single father + kids, single father + many mothers + kids, in few African societies (tribes) single mother + many fathers + kids or either mother + kids or father + kids! Whereas when kids find themselves in a family (let's say due to a loss of both father + mother) attention has been paid to assist the victims to live in acceptable values a family can bring! That is to say close relatives, neighbors and society at large are responsible to raise that family that misses the ingredients. So is when the complete family (mother + father + kids) lacks the capacity to undertake its duties i.e. financial or moral legitimacy.

    But out of these accepted values our Tanzanian culture is also highly influenced by the values of those individuals we don't accept to be specific; the value the LGBT people bring to our society! Why so? To give a hint, I ask any of the reader of this short writing to ask oneself; whether we have tried to look at the fact that homosexuality shapes our daily activities? Think of "the kitchen parties" that are a must for the union of two to mold a family that is a foundation of a society! In Dar es Salaam and many urban areas; who are the most sought by our mothers and sisters to teach our brides, sisters and mothers? The answer will be individuals falling under LGBT group come first to their minds! How about our favorite TV shows we like to watch together with our kids? Men in cross dressed ( a main transgender character) talking, walking and laughing in impersonation of ladies and LGTB people as an accepted standard to have a good comedy! What is the message we get or what is the message conveyed to our minors?

    If our mentalities are meant to accept those TV shows that always depict cross-dressed individuals, why our society don't accept that there are people actually live in that world shown on TV every day in our sitting/living rooms and we love to sit and watch? Where has the idea of cross-dressing come from at the first place? I know individuals might say from women in the society! But how about those guts as men to apply a lipstick on, put a wig on and paint nails! Surprisingly our society is full of women who can play those specific roles in a comedy...! Do we imply our society to be a segregating one since we deprive women of taking that role? Or out of the fact I have not seen a show showing a woman cross-dressed to impersonate a man at the first place; putting aside whether the idea will even receive an approval rate the vice versa does!

    Jamii Forum as a home of great thinkers will have to answer these questions whether this society of ours has been true to itself or we have not been practicing what we preach since family values start from roots that includes our acts in the society! Our upbringings say a lot on one's actions at later stages, we should probably have a look at our media that incite or promote all those forms of LGTB (from cross-dressing, feminine kiduku dancing genres etc.) characteristics before we even dare to link words homosexuality as a Western import!
     
  4. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

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    That being said!

    The same question should be directed to an independent self respecting country ...as a recipient country, will play a (wife) and the donor will take a role of a (A Man) ..eh?

    AND

    Indeed, a man (COUNTRY) who allows that to happen would be considered as having been married by the provider man (CAMERON), call them economic homos. Rejecting the one, reject the other too!!

    MY Take

    An Economic Homo Country ... being run by ... An Economic Homo Leaders?
     
  5. Baba Sangara

    Baba Sangara JF-Expert Member

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    ...Ouch!..
     
  6. Songambele

    Songambele JF-Expert Member

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    Tafsida jamani, ukitohoa economic homo country then kiuchumi nchi inatumika kinyume na maumbile. Na nchi ni wananchi sasa taratibu jamani
     
  7. Waberoya

    Waberoya JF-Expert Member

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    Thanks for the challenges that you have just posed particulary in this forum,

    You have said it like a man! like great thinker your analysis is logically accepted.

    We are living in the world where logic does not exist especially on issues like cultures. We are living in the planet that there is no global and agreed standards in everything that we are doing.

    It is true we have homosexual ‘thing' whether society is advocating it directly or indirectly I don't know.. but we have not reached the stage that….

    Let homosexual be accepted because we have comedian and other things who are actually imitating what gays do!

    Let kill each other because 80% of movies portray the killing and all criminals obsession!

    Let prostitute prevail openly from morning to night in front of our kid just because prostitution is actually being discussed and practised everyday in media!

    Let our government believe in witchdoctors because our history and culture will favour us to adopt these kind of beliefs!

    Let...
    let....


    AFTER GAY THING…In near future people will start discussing about INCEST, BESTIALITY,ABORTION in the name of human right! So please think ahead!

    Because some books, articles, TV, Movies etc talk about INCEST then tomorrow you should prepare to sleep with your mummy or daughter… off course by that time the gay will be allowed , within the gay ‘matters' incest will arise you may end up having your father at your back!...all in the name of HUMAN RIGHT!

    YES WE MIGHT BE WRONG , BUT WE CAN IMPEDE ALL OUR WRONGS AND LET NOT PERMIT OTHER WRONGS IN THE NAME OF THESE ONES!

    The question is…curiosity and naughty nature of human will it end up into practising gay only?

    What about Pedophilia? Are we able to accommodate them in our society in the name of human right?

    Kuna watu watasema mbuzi wanatamanisha na matamanio yao yako kwa wanyama ,tutakula nyama zenye mbegu za kiume na kike mpaka tukome! Ndio watasema wamezaliwa kutamani mbuzi!

    Hakuna demokrasia katika hili!
     
  8. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    Thank you for your brain storming question, but lets look at the comparison of the examples you gave compared to homosexuality! We watch TV/movies showing people being killed but we can't imitate since there are strong laws (including capital punishment) that prevent killing to be imitated indiscriminately/intentionally though that still happens in isolated cases, putting aside religions values that put much emphasis on life as a divine thing and even without the existence of religion killing had been treated as a bad thing from human conscious and has always happened with exceptions since every human being was automatically aware of importance of living! Unlike things like homosexuality and prostitution that has to do a lot with influence of your surroundings and though laws exist to prevent these two the reality is they are soft laws! And moreover, the authorities meant to oversee the issue, don't take their obligation serious...
     
  9. Waberoya

    Waberoya JF-Expert Member

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    I don't get you, should we allow it because our laws are silent and blunt or because society is not open to deal with this matter?

    My concern is,.. the human mind will not end up into gay issues, will go foward on practising other forbidden affairs, ..yes is true the killing and other violencse are suffering strong opposition from laws. But because laws are not balanced as you are pointing out, my questions will remain clear... how are we going to deal with other abominable affairs like incest, bestiality ,pedophilia etc..Because all those engaged in doing these are not normal! same as gay...what is your opinion?? lets allows all of these because our laws does not strong in these kind of affairs!
     
  10. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    Well the punishment should be the same as for incest and pedophilia depending on my culture and on the scientific grounds that heredity diseases can be avoided (as for incest relations)! But on the other hand what's bad or good depends on respective traditions; though pedophilia is universal not accepted as minors are protected by international laws but in certain African, Asian and Arabic cultures the practice is accepted (an old man propose to marry an 8 years old daughter of someone)! So is incest; there are cultures that permit cousins to be married! That's why there are what we call taboos in certain cultures but accepted values in other cultures! What makes me mad is the fact that the Westerners have always considered themselves to be having the best practices to be emulated by/imposed to any civilized person and disregard the fact that they have to respect other cultures also! Think of this when the colonists came to Africa they discouraged things like polygamy though family values existed in such extended relations! They also banned men from putting on studs or having dreadlocks e.t.c. though right now they are the ones having huge piercing like those of the Massai ! And since they consider themselves as focal points of civilization it is always a human right to introduce even those values they discouraged before; just as the way they are trying to introduce homosexuality under the pretext of human rights to the so called marginalized cum minority groups!
     
  11. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    [h=1]All Are God's Children: On Including Gays and Lesbians in the Church and Society[/h][COLOR=#696969 !important]Posted: 6/11/11 08:39 AM ET
    [/COLOR]



    The following is excerpted from the Archbishop Desmond Tutu's new book, 'God Is Not A Christian: And Other Provocations'.
    Archbishop Tutu dissents from the official policies of most of the world's Anglican churches, which hold that gays and lesbians should be celibate; and in the years since his retirement as archbishop of Cape Town he has become one of the world's most prominent figures pleading for a change in the attitudes of religious institutions toward human sexuality.
    Tutu's position is reflected in excerpts from a newspaper article and a sermon preached in Southwark Cathedral, London, in 2004.
    A student once asked me, If I could have one wish granted to reverse an injustice, what would it be? I had to ask for two. One is for world leaders to forgive the debts of developing nations which hold them in such thrall. The other is for the world to end the persecution of people because of their sexual orientation, which is every bit as unjust as that crime against humanity, apartheid.
    This is a matter of ordinary justice. We struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about -- our very skin. It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given. I could not have fought against the discrimination of apartheid and not also fight against the discrimination that homosexuals endure, even in our churches and faith groups.
    I am proud that in South Africa, when we won the chance to build our own new constitution, the human rights of all have been explicitly enshrined in our laws. My hope is that one day this will be the case all over the world, and that all will have equal rights. For me this struggle is a seamless robe. Opposing apartheid was a matter of justice. Opposing discrimination against women is a matter of justice. Opposing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is a matter of justice.
    It is also a matter of love. Every human being is precious. We are all -- all of us -- part of God's family. We all must be allowed to love each other with honor. Yet all over the world, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people are persecuted. We treat them as pariahs and push them outside our communities. We make them doubt that they too are children of God. This must be nearly the ultimate blasphemy. We blame them for what they are.
    Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical -- the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act; the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reasons have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?
    The Jesus I worship is not likely to collaborate with those who vilify and persecute an already oppressed minority. I myself could not have opposed the injustice of penalizing people for something about which they could do nothing -- their race -- and then have kept quiet as women were being penalized for something they could do nothing about -- their gender; hence my support for the ordination of women to the priesthood and the episcopate.
    Equally, I cannot keep quiet while people are being penalized for something about which they can do nothing -- their sexuality. To discriminate against our sisters and brothers who are lesbian or gay on grounds of their sexual orientation for me is as totally unacceptable and unjust as apartheid ever was.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/desmond-tutu/religion-homosexuality_b_874804.html?view=print&comm_ref=false




     
  12. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    For a country that once had ambitions of becoming a self-reliant nation, Tanzania is a surprisingly donor-dependent place. The Arusha Declaration, Julius Nyerere’s blueprint for socialism and self-reliance, argued that dependency on external economic assistance would be detrimental to the country’s independence.

    In a brief but closely argued document, a strong case was made for reliance on our own resources and treating foreign aid with care, especially shunning financial grants, for whereas loans and credit lines impose the responsibility of repayment, free money makes the recipient a virtual beggar and keeps him beholden to the donor. And yet Tanzania, even under the old man himself, went ahead and accepted foreign money, loans and grants, in huge sums, especially in sectors such as education, health and water and sanitation.

    The dependency grew so great that when Olof Palme, the Swedish social democrat who had underwritten Nyerere’s education programme, lost power, Tanzanians felt the impact probably more acutely than the Swedes. The rightwing government that came in scrapped the whole aid package to Tanzania, declaring, rather cruelly, that we had become a bottomless pit.

    Since then our education programmes have struggled, our schools have staggered along, and our rulers have remained largely clueless as to what we need to do to liberate ourselves from the mire of growing dependency. Indeed, a few years ago we reached some benchmark that convinced our donor countries that we had become a highly indebted poor country (HIPC). And we celebrated with a beggar’s dance, bowl in hand.

    Our government has continued to borrow and to receive cash handouts in what has come to be known as general budget support (GBS) that gives it unfettered licence to place those monies wherever it pleases. At some stage in the past, our beggar practices were streamlined in such a way that we could only borrow or beg to meet capital, or development programmes.

    Now we can borrow to pay government employees and other charges (OT), which gives dependency a new and menacing dynamic. This has meant that when a donor government decides to withdraw its GBS grant, the beggar government finds itself in an awkward situation, for whereas a road construction programme can easily be put off or postponed, civil service pay and running the government cannot.

    So, when the Brits announced, a couple of weeks ago, that they intend to cut their GBS handouts, the Tanzanian government put on a brave face, making it appear like it was a small matter. But it’s likely to hurt. All this was, of course, before David Cameron made his remarks about his intention to cut aid to governments that suppress homosexual rights, so we don’t know what the real motive for the aid cut was.

    African men are a macho lot, and for many the very idea of a man-on-man sexual partnership is anathema. Woman-on-woman also. A man was created specifically to have liaison with a woman, and a woman was created as a tool, exclusively to serve the man, in both productive and reproductive pursuits. It is inconceivable that two such tools would dream of having a liaison other than with the man. Rather like the tractor dating the combine harvester on the farm.

    Apart from the viewpoint of a woman being a centre for economic and biological production, I do not have much against those who claim that homosexuality is un-African. But let us push this macho thing to its logical conclusion. No self-respecting African man would let another man pay for his and his wife’s and his children’s upkeep. Indeed, a man who allows that to happen would be considered as having been married by the provider man, call them economic homos. Rejecting the one, reject the other too.

    So homosexuality is unAfrican? What about living on handouts?  - Comment |theeastafrican.co.ke
     
  13. Habdavi

    Habdavi JF-Expert Member

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    I enjoyed the article, We need more of these to regain the status and motto of JF which recently lost the luster.
     
  14. Mwita Matteo

    Mwita Matteo JF-Expert Member

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    "No self-respecting African man would let another man pay for his and his wife's and his children's upkeep. Indeed, a man who allows that to happen would be considered as having been married by the provider man, call them economic homos. Rejecting the one, reject the other too." Sina cha kuongeza wala kupunguza huo ni ujumbe mzito sana kwa JK na Membe.
     
  15. Poetik Justice

    Poetik Justice Member

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    "No self-respecting African man would let another man pay for his and his wife’s and his children’s upkeep. Indeed, a man who allows that to happen would be considered as having been married by the provider man, call them economic homos."

    Hahahaha
    Most of us are sititing under the mango tree discussing who shoulda, coulda, woulda done better instead of gettting out there and doing something tangible to make Tanzania self-reliant
     
  16. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kweli kabisa anachosema Ulimwengu. Hizi safari tunazozisifia kama ndio zitatukomboa za kwenda kujikomba komba kwa wazungu, sasa tunaanza kuzilipia. Na bado maana tumedharau vitu vilivyo vya kwetu kwa mambo ya kuazima. Tumesahau cha kuazima hakiwezi kusitiri mwili. Ujamaa na kujitegema ulikuwa una matatizo yake, isipokuwa kudharau kila kitu tulifanya makosa makubwa sana. Kwa mfano, industrialization ya Marehemu Sokoine ambayo ilikuja ili kukabiliana na hali mbaya ya kiuchuni iliyokuwa inatukabili, kama tungekomaa nayo na tungeiendeleza, ingeweza kutufanya kuwa wazalishaji wakubwa wa viwandani. Kwani Japani na China maendeleo yao walianzaje? Hatuwezi kuruka steps...kitu ambacho we are so busy trying to do tena in vain.
    Na moja ya hasara kubwa za kudharau kila kilicho chetu ni kukosa opportunity ambazo zingeweza kutufanya kuwa tofauti kabisa. How did we participate in the AGOA business opportunity as compared to Uganda and Kenya? We were thrown out of the balance because we did not have anything to offer.
    Labda sasa tutazinduka na kugundua kwamba mcheza kwao hutunzwa. Suluhu ya matatizo yetu haiko Marekani na Ulaya....ni wajinga wajinga tu wataendelea kujazana kwenye ndege wakila hela za kodi zetu, eti wanaenda kututafutia maendeleo Marekani na Ulaya. Maendeleo yetu tutayapata hapa hapa kwa jitihada zetu binafsi.
     
  17. ndyoko

    ndyoko JF-Expert Member

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    Thanx for the best thread
     
  18. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

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    Nimependa hapo alipomalizia. Sijui kama JK na wenzake kina Membe wanasoma haya magazeti (au hapa JF)!
     
  19. papag

    papag JF-Expert Member

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    big up and i really enjoy and learnt something in this article..bravo
     
  20. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Ubarikiwe Mkuu
     
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