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Jee watanganyika wanapenda kuikalia Zenji kimabavu?

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by MrFroasty, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Hapa tushasikia maneno ya mawaziri (akiwemo waziri Khatibu) kuwa hakuna mkataba wowote unaoonesha nchi hizi kuwa zimeunganishwa kisheria.Kwa maana hiyo iko wazi kabisa kuwa muungano huu ni haramu.

    Sasa nilikuwa nataka maoni ya watanganyika au watanzania Bara kwa maneno ya siku hizi, wanahisi vipi kama wakiitwa wavamizi na wazanzibari kwa kuivamia na kuitawala nchi hiyo.Au wakiitwa wakoloni kama maneno ya waziri wa nishati alivosema kwenye baraza la Wawakilishi.
     
  2. N

    Ngekewa JF-Expert Member

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    Bora ungeanza wewe kutueleza kwa maoni yake unahisi vipi? Tutakufuatia.
     
  3. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    Baada ya kumaliza mvutano wa kuandikisha wapiga kura ajenda iliyopo mbele sasa ni ubatili wa muungano. Naona mafuta mlishamaliza. Bado sioni kwanini tunahangaika na mambo yasiyo na kichwa wala mguu. Muungano huu ambao wengi wanaubeza umesitiri mengi pia. Wenye nguvu za kuuvnja wafanye hivyo ila kwa tahadhari kuwa isije kuwa wakawa wa kwanza kuadhirika
     
  4. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Lakini kuniuliza mimi maoni yangu naona kama hujadili maada unajadili mtoa maada.

    Na hilo sio lengo, hapa najaribu kupata picha vipi wanananchi wa Tanzania bara wanapendelea hali hii ya kuwa wanakwenda kuikalia Zenji kimabavu bavu?

    Mimi binafsi naona huu muungano ni haramu kwa vile hakuna nyaraka inayoweka wazi kuwa hizi nchi zimeunganishwa kisheria.Na sipendelei kuona nchi yoyote inapotea au kukaliwa kimabavu.
     
  5. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Tusubiri tuone kama hao watanganyika waliokwenda "kuikalia zenji kimabavu" watakuwa na maoni gani kwasababu si watanganyika wote wako huko zenji ama hata wameshawahi kwenda uko,itakuwa vigumu sana kwa wale ambao hawajaenda uko kukujibu kuhusu kwenda uko "Kimabavu"
    Pili hivi na hao wazenji walioko bara wanaikalia kivipi?Ama nyani haoni kundule?Nadhani ungejaribu kuirekebisha hii mada ili tujue nini hasa unachozungumzia.
     
  6. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Ndugu yangu we,

    Mbona unataka kuwahusisha wananchi kwa mambo yaliyofanywa na viongozi? Ni Mtanganyika gani wa kawaida aliyehusika katika kuusimika muungano? Watu si wameletewa muungano tu? Mimi naona Tanganyika ina muungano mkubwa na Kenya na the rest of Africa kuliko na Zanzibar, maana hapa hatuna a natural boundary, ni mambo ya wakoloni walichora mistari tu, lakini huko Zenj kuna a natural boundary.

    Mimi napenda kusisitiza msimamo wangu wa kila siku, muungano huu haujawahi kupitishwa kihalali na wananchi, na kwa hiyo tuitishe kura ya maoni pande zote mbili, swali simple "Unataka muungano uendelee au uvunjwe?" Ndiyo uendelee kama ulivyo, Uvunjwe.

    Ili muungano uendelee itabidi kura ya maoni ipate simple majority pande zote.Matokeo yoyote yaheshimiwe.Waangalizi wa kimataifa wawe bwerere kuhakikisha hamna usanii.

    Iwapo wananchi japo 50.1 % kutoka kila pande ya muungano watasema wanataka muungano uendelee basi hii ndiyo iwe mandate ya kuendeleza muungano, yeyote atakayeleta fyokofyoko apewe tamu ya rungu la dola kwa kuwa seditious.

    Iwapo wananchi japo 50.1% kutoka pande yoyote ya muungano wataukataa, muungano uvunjwe, na mbinu yoyote ya kuudumisha muungano ichukuliwe hatua kama uhaini against the will of the people.

    Kwani kuna kazi gani kuongeza hili swali moja katika ballot ya uchaguzi wa rais 2010?

    Binafsi, ingawa naweza kusema mengi kuhusu historia, na jinsi gani "Wazanzibari" ni Wamakua, Wazaramo na Wanyamwezi pamoja na Wangazija wachache waliovuka bahari, nimechoka na hizi kelele za muungano na ningepiga kura kuukataa, if only ili tuanze kuwatoza kodi properly "wazanzibari" wanaofanya biashara Dar properly na kuwadai work permit and all that.
     
  7. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    POle ndugu yangu, wenzako wanaangalia mbali siku hizi
     
  8. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Nafikiria ni wewe tuu ambae hujafahamu watanganyika kwa maana ya nchi au serekali ya Tanganyika na sio mwananchi mmoja mmoja.Ofcourse hapa tuko kwenye jukwaa la siasa, na sio jukwaa la kudiscuss mwananchi mmoja mmoja.
     
  9. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Naona kama bora tufikirie vyema, sina maana ya watu wanaoshi pande moja na nyengine.Wazanzibari, watanganyika wako wengi wanaishi nje ya makwao au walikozaliwa.Na hilo la kuwatoza kodi naona wala si maajabu mtu yeyote anapofanya kazi anatakiwa alipe kodi.Wala si wazenji tuu ndio waliopo bara, kuna watanganyika chungu tele wako Zenji.Hii sio hoja ya msingi wala kitu cha kuringia....

    Mie kama mzanzibari sitaki kupiga kura ya maoni, nataka muungano uvunjwe kwanza halafu serekali mbili hizo ya Zanzibar na Tanganyika ziachiwe huru zijadili kama umuhimu wa kuwepo muungano huu.Ofcourse lazima kutakuwa na mawasiliano ya aina fulani, kama ya EAC na mambo kama hayo lakini sio kupoteza utaifa wetu.Hili sisemi uongo hili la muungano limekoroga wazanzibari wengi....mimi sijiskii fine kusema ni mtanzania, nataka niseme mzanzibari kama ilivyokuwa awali...sasa kuniuliza kama nataka kubaki kwenye muungano au kuendelea ndio maana yake nini?Kwanza niwe huru halafu ndio uniulize kama nahitaji muungano...

    Cheers....
     
  10. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Kama hutaki kupiga kura ya maoni unajionyesha wewe ni mbeberu usiyeheshimu maoni ya wengi.Mimi nimekubali kura ya maoni na matokeo yoyote ya haki yatakayotakiwa na wengi.

    Wewe inabidi utafute nchi yako sasa.Kwa maana hutaki hata kuheshimu maoni ya wengi ikiwa wataamua kuwa katika muungano.

    Wewe kinachokufaa ni ukimbizi tu.
     
  11. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Huwezi kumuuliza mwananchi kama anataka muungano haramu uendelee au ubaki.Kuulizana kwa kura ya maoni ni makosa ya Nyerere ambae na sera zake za kijamaa (ambazo manaake ni official form ya dictatorship), alitakiwa aulize tokea huko kwenye historia.Kwa sasa ni too late kuuliza kwa kura ya maoni, ni kuvunja tuu halafu tena ndio kuuliza kama wananchi wanataka.

    Halafu haya mambo ya muungano yanakuja naturally, sio mambo ya kukaa dictator (Nyerere) anaamka asubuhi na kukwambia utaifa wako umefutika na kuanzia leo wewe ni mtanzania.This doesnt make any sense.

    Anyways, sasa mukiulizwa faida 5 za muungano huu unaweza kuzitaja?Mie kwa upande wangu ni hasara tupu, sina faida hata moja!
     
  12. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa kati ya Nyerere aliyeleta muungano kwa nguvu bila kuuliza watu, na wewe unayetaka kuuvunja muungano kwa nguvu bila kuuliza watu mtu akisema wote madikteta utakataaje?

    Waache watu waamue.

    Sijui sana kuhusu faida za muungano, lakini najua hasara.Tumeletewa walalmishi kama wewe wanaolaumu udikteta wa Nyerere wakati wanashabikia udikteta wao!
     
  13. H

    HM Hafif JF-Expert Member

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    naungana na Mohd Seif Khatib, yalikuwa makubaliano baina na Nyerere na Karume ambayo haikuwashirikisha wananchi wa nchi zote yaani Tanganyika na Zanzibar. Na tumeungana Kimkataba na wala si kisheria.
     
  14. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa uko tayari kuwashirikisha wananchi wote katika kura ya maoni?
     
  15. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna mkataba ndio maana nikauita muungano haramu....hakuna mkataba uliotiwa saini na kiongozi yeyote kutoka Zanzibar.Mchanga ametia dictator mmoja tuu Nyere, mbona hawakuonekana wote wawili kila mmoja akishika chupa moja ya mchanga?

    Kama unao mkataba wa muungano wenye saini ya Karume na Nyerere, tafadhali niletee...nina hamu sana yakuona kama huu muungano una makubaliano ya aina yoyote.Mkataba nilionao mimi, pia kuna saini ya Nyerere na Spika wa Tanganyika...huu muungano wazanzibari wala viongozi wao hawakushiriki....

    Wala sioni kama kuna udikteta wowote kuuvunja.Sasa tuwaulize wananchi vipi wakati hatukuwashauri kama walitaka kuweko kwenye muungano toka hapo mwanzo?Kama tungeliwashauri huko kwenye historia, basi leo tuna haki ya kuwauliza.Lakini watu wameforciwa na kuuliwa, na wengine kunajisiwa wazee wao...na majeshi ya Tanganyika...halafu leo waulizwe kama wanataka au hawataki....does this make any kind of sense?:confused:
     
  16. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    tatizo la wazanzibari wengi ni walalamishi mno,
    siku zote wanalaumu watanzania bara hata
    kwa matatizo yao binafsi

    ni kama vile wanataka bothways
    to have the cake and eat it also.

    Eti mi sitaki muungano ufe lakini sitaki kuitwa mtanzania niitwe mzanzibari .........nonsense.
     
  17. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna mzanzibari au mtu yeyote ambae anataka utaifa wake ufe, Tanganyika ndio nchi ya mwanzo duniani kukimbilia utaifa wake ufe.Na kwanini hamutaki taifa lenu la Tanganyika?

    Sikumbuki kusema nataka muungano, actually mimi ni mmoja wa activist ambae nasimamia kwa nguvu zangu zote ili muungano huu uvunjike.Naamini kama napigania uhuru kama babu yako Nyerere alivyokudanganyeni kuwa kapigania uhuru, wakati kapewa uhuru kwa karatasi...hajapigania uhuru mmoja!

    Tena babu yenu Nyerere kawapumbazeni sana nyie miaka 22 anakulisheni ugali wa njano, huku akiwaandikieni Azimio la Arusha...
     
  18. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Mtu mwenyewe kumbe "activist" bwana, lol.

    Wala sishangai.
     
  19. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Eeh bwana....masikini toka lini wakaungana, mwisho wake ni kuibiana tuu....:rolleyes:
     
  20. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Nilikuwa nakupa changamoto,soma vizuri posting yangu iliyopita utaona niligusia hilo. Hakuna pahala ulipozungumzia serikali kwenye posting yako ya kuanzisha thread...Ni kwenye posting hiyo hapo juu ndiyo umegusia mambo ya serikali,na kwa mantiki hiyo basi ni bora ukubaliane na Bluray kuhusiana na maoni yake kura za maoni ili kujuwa ni wananchi kiasi gani hawaukubali muungano kwani ndiyo the only way unaweza kuibana serikali,nguvu ya wengi ama nguvu ya umma,kwa upande wa mwananchi mmoja mmoja kila mtu ana msimamo wake,lakini solution haiwezi kupatikana kama hataujui maoni ya walio wengi. Hata hivyo kwasababu heading ya thread yako inasema "watanganyika wanapenda kuikalia Zenji kimabavu" jibu langu bado liko pale pale...Si watanganyika wote wanapenda kuikalia Zenji kwa namna yoyote ile,natumaini tutakuwa tumeelewana. Si maamuzi yote yanayofanywa na serikali yameridhiwa na wananchi,kwa maoni yangu binafsi,mimi napendelea muungano,licha ya kwamba sina ndoto ya kuikalia zenji kwa namna yoyote ile...Hata hivyo kwasababu mgogoro huu ni sugu na unaopelekea vurugu na mara nyingi maafa,binafsi naona ni bora tufunguane mashati.
     
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