Je, Hati za Muungano Ziko Juu ya Katiba?

[Buchanan]

Nimesoma mara kwa mara vitabu vya Prof Issa G. Shivji akiandika kwenye vitabu vyake mbalimbali kwamba Hati za Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar ziko juu ya Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ya Mwaka 1977, kwa maana kwamba haziwezi kubadilishwa kwa namna yoyote ile, kama Katiba inavyobadilishwa!
1. Je, wewe ukiwa mwanasheria una maoni gani juu ya hili?
2. Kama ziko juu ya Katiba, ni kwa namna gani Kisheria?
3. Na kama haziko juu ya Katiba, pia ni kwa namna gani Kisheria?
4. Hati hizo zina status gani hasa ukilinganisha na Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ya Mwaka 1977 au Katiba ya Zanzibar ya Mwaka 1984?
5. Je, kuna kitu kiitwacho Basic Structure of the Constitution of the United Republic of Tanzania, 1977, as amended from time to time?
Tafadhali naomba maoni yako yaliyo na sababu za msingi, then tujadili!

 

[Pascal Mayalla]

Buchanan,
hakuna kitu chochote kilicho juu ya Katiba, katiba ndio supreme law na kila kitu kiko chini yake.
Anachosema Shivji, Bunge la Muungano, halina mamlaka kubadilisha kipengele chochote kwenye hati ya muungano, maana kinahitaji kuridhiwa na asilimia 75 ya wabunge wa Zanzibar na wale wa Tanganyika.

Point ya Shivji ni kueleza kuwa mabadiliko kadhaa wa kadhaa yaliyofanywa kwenye katiba ya Tanzania ya Mwaka 1977, yamefanywa kinyume cha katiba hivyo ni mabadiliko batili.

Sio tuu ni mabadiliko batili, bali pia katiba ya Zanzibar ya Mwaka 1984, inataka mabadiliko yoyote ya katiba, yatakaihusu Zanzibar, yanahitaji kwanza Zanzibar ishauriwe, ikisharidhia, ndipo mabadiliko yafanyike, na yakishapitishwa, yaletwe barazani ili yaridhiwe.

Kuanzia Muungano, na marekebisho yote ya katiba kubadili vifungu vya hati za muungano, yamefanywa kinyume cha katiba kwa vile Zanzibar haikushauriwa, na pia mabadiliko hayo, hayakupelekwa barazani ili yaridhiwe, hivyo ni batili ndio maana kilio cha Zanzibar kutaka kumezwa na bara, yana ukweli mtupu, ila kwa vile tumeamua kujenga muungano in good faith, kilio hicho cha Zanzibar kinaishia kwenye deaf ears kwa jina la kudumisha muungano wetu.

Buchnan, kuwa mwangalifu sana unapigusa masuala ya muungano, mara nyingi watu wana kuwa carried over na emotions na kusahau facts are sturbon things.

Ndio maana niliwahi kusema, nawashangaa sana Wazanzibari, kulishikia kidedea jambo dogo tuu kama serikali ya umoja wa kitaifa na kung'ang'ana mpaka referendum, wakati issues kubwa za kitaifa zenye kuhusisha mustakabali wa Zanzibar, zimepitishwa juju kwa juu huku bara huku wao wamejikalia kimya!.

Pia nikasisitiza hiyo referendum, ingetumika kusikiza sauti za Wanzanzibari wana maoni gani kuhusu muungano. Ile kura ya Yes vote kwenye referendum ni just wasted of money, time and resources.

 

[Chapakazi]

Tungejua argument yake zaidi ingefaa katika kujadili hili.

 

[Buchanan]

Buchanan,
hakuna kitu chochote kilicho juu ya Katiba, katiba ndio supreme law na kila kitu kiko chini yake.
Anachosema Shivji, Bunge la Muungano, halina mamlaka kubadilisha kipengele chochote kwenye hati ya muungano, maana kinahitaji kuridhiwa na asilimia 75 ya wabunge wa Zanzibar na wale wa Tanganyika.

Point ya Shivji ni kueleza kuwa mabadiliko kadhaa wa kadhaa yaliyofanywa kwenye katiba ya Tanzania ya Mwaka 1977, yamefanywa kinyume cha katiba hivyo ni mabadiliko batili.

1. 75% kulingana na kifungu kipi cha Katiba au kulingana na Sheria ipi?
2. Mabadiliko gani ambayo yalifanywa bila kufuata taratibu?

 

[Buchanan]

Tungejua argument yake zaidi ingefaa katika kujadili hili.

Argument ya nani ndugu Chapakazi, maana argument za Shivji nimeziweka hapo juu!

 

[Chapakazi]

Nimesoma mara kwa mara vitabu vya Prof Issa G. Shivji akiandika kwenye vitabu vyake mbalimbali kwamba Hati za Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar ziko juu ya Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ya Mwaka 1977, kwa maana kwamba haziwezi kubadilishwa kwa namna yoyote ile, kama Katiba inavyobadilishwa!
1. Je, wewe ukiwa mwanasheria una maoni gani juu ya hili?
2. Kama ziko juu ya Katiba, ni kwa namna gani Kisheria?
3. Na kama haziko juu ya Katiba, pia ni kwa namna gani Kisheria?
4. Hati hizo zina status gani hasa ukilinganisha na Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ya Mwaka 1977 au Katiba ya Zanzibar ya Mwaka 1984?
5. Je, kuna kitu kiitwacho Basic Structure of the Constitution of the United Republic of Tanzania, 1977, as amended from time to time?
Tafadhali naomba maoni yako yaliyo na sababu za msingi, then tujadili!

Argument ya nani ndugu Chapakazi, maana argument za Shivji nimeziweka hapo juu!

mkuu...umeweka conclusion yake...sio argument yake, au reasoning yake. Nahisi kwenye hivyo vitabu atakuwa ameeleza kwa nini amefikia conclusion hiyo. nahisi kama ungeweka point zake, ingeleta uchambuzi mzuri zaidi!

 

[Buchanan]

mkuu...umeweka conclusion yake...sio argument yake, au reasoning yake. Nahisi kwenye hivyo vitabu atakuwa ameeleza kwa nini amefikia conclusion hiyo. nahisi kama ungeweka point zake, ingeleta uchambuzi mzuri zaidi!

Ok, nimekupata! Nitaleta argument zake baada ya muda si mrefu!

 

[Buchanan]

mkuu...umeweka conclusion yake...sio argument yake, au reasoning yake. Nahisi kwenye hivyo vitabu atakuwa ameeleza kwa nini amefikia conclusion hiyo. nahisi kama ungeweka point zake, ingeleta uchambuzi mzuri zaidi!

Sorry wakuu, kwenye title ni "Sheria za Muungano" na sio "Hati za Muungano."

The Supremacy of the Acts of the Union:
1. The true legal position is that the 1977 Constitution derives its force of Law from the pre-existing Acts of Union which continue to operate, and in law, prevail over the 1977 Constitution in case of conflict
2. The next question is whether any, and all, provisions of the Acts of Union can be so altered. Or are there any provision which are made absolutely unalterable or irrevocable even by special majority? It is submitted that the provisions of section 5 of the Acts of the Union, which embody the essential features of the Union, are absolutely unalterable.
3. ...the Acts of the Union as a Constitution are rigid. The Acts have two categories:
a) Those which can be altered by the Union Parliament acting in its Constituent Capacity ie by two thirds majority. This category includes all sections which are in the nature of incidental or supplemental, meant to give effect to the basic framework and structure of the Union. This category would include virtually all sections except section 5.
b) The second category of the provisions relates to those which embody the basic framework, structure and essential features of the Union. This is mainly section 5. THEREFORE, NEITHER THE PARLIAMENT NOR THE ZANZIBAR LEGISLATURE, ACTING ALONE, CAN ALTER THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 5, EVEN IF THEY PURPORT TO DO SO IN THEIR CONSTITUENT CAPACITY!!

Issa G. Shivji, The Legal Foundations of the Union in Tanzania's Union and Zanzibar Constitutions, Dar es Salaam University Press, 1990.

 

[Buchanan]

Chapakazi/Pasco vipi tena hamwonekani kwenye mjadala?

 

[Buchanan]

Most Learned bros and sisters wamehamia kwenye jukwaa la Mapenzi/udaku siku hizi?

 

[Chapakazi]

Natakaa kukaa chini na katiba na hizo hati nizipitie kwanza...tupe nafasi kidogo

 

[Chapakazi]

mkuu...hiyo hati ya muungano inapatikana wapi? nimejaribu ku-search hapa JF bila mafinikio...

 

[Buchanan]

mkuu...hiyo hati ya muungano inapatikana wapi? nimejaribu ku-search hapa JF bila mafinikio...

THE ARTICLES OF UNION
between
THE REPUBLIC OF TANGANYIKA AND THE PEOPLES' REPUBLIC OF
ZANZIBAR​

WHEREAS the Governments of the Republic of Tanganyika and of the Peoples' Republic
of Zanzibar being mindful of the long association of the peoples of these lands and of
their ties of kinship and amity, and being desirous of furthering that association and
strengthening of these ties and of furthering the unity of African peoples have met and
considered the union of the Republic of Tanganyika with the Peoples Republic of
Zanzibar:
AND WHEREAS the Governments of the Republic of Tanganyika and of the Peoples'
Republic of Zanzibar are desirous that the two Republics shall be united in one
Sovereign Republic in accordance with the Articles hereinafter contained:-
It is therefore AGREED between the Governments of the Republic of Tanganyika and
of the Peoples' Republic of Zanzibar as follows: -
(i) The Republic of Tanganyika and the Peoples' Republic of Zanzibar shall be
united in one Sovereign Republic.
(ii) During the period from the commencement of the union until the Constituent
Assembly provided for in Article (vii) shall have met and adopted a Constitution
for the united Republic (hereinafter referred to as the interim period) the
united Republic
(iii) to (vi).
shall be governed in accordance with the provisions of Articles
(iii) During the interim period the Constitution of the united Republic shall be
the Constitution of Tanganyika so modified as to provide for-
(a) a separate legislature and executive in and for Zanzibar from time to time
constituted in accordance with the existing law of Zanzibar and having
exclusive authority within Zanzibar for matters other than those reserved
to the Parliament and Executive of the united Republic;
(b) the offices of two Vice-Presidents one of whom (being. a person normally
resident in Zanzibar) shall be the head of the aforesaid executive in and
for Zanzibar and shall be the principal assistant of the President of the
United Republic in the discharge of his executive functions in relation to
Zanzibar;
(c) the representation of Zanzibar in the Parliament of the United Republic;
(d) such other matters as may be expedient or desirable to give effect to the
united Republic and to these Articles.
(iv) There shall reserved to the Parliament and Executive of the united
Republic the following matters-
(a) The Constitution and Government of the united Republic.
(b) External Affairs.
(c) Defence.
(d) Police.
(e) Emergency Powers.
(f) Citizenship.
(g) Immigration.
(h) External Trade and Borrowing.
(i) The Public Service of the united Republic.
(j) Income Tax, Corporation Tax, Customs and Excise.
(k) Harbours, Civil Aviation, Posts and Telegraphs.
And the said Parliament and Executive shall have exclusive authority in such
matters throughout and for the purposes of the united Republic and in addition
exclusive authority in respect of all other matters in and for Tanganyika.
(v) The existing laws of Tanganyika and of Zanzibar shall remain in force in
their respective territories subject-
(a) to any provision made hereafter by a competent legislature;
(b) to such provision as may be made by order of the President of the
united Republic for the extension to Zanzibar of any law relating to any
of the matters set out in Article (iv), and the revocation of any
corresponding law of Zanzibar;
(c) to such amendments as may be expedient or desirable to give effect to the
union and to these Articles.
Union of Tanganyika and Zanzibar 1964
(v) (a) The first President of the united Republic shall be Mwalimu Julius K.
Nyerere and he shall carry on the Government of the united Republic
in accordance with the provisions of these Articles and with the assistance
of the Vice-Presidents aforesaid and of such other ministers and officers
as he may appoint from Tanganyika and Zanzibar and their respective
public services.
(b) The first Vice-President from Zanzibar to be appointed in accordance
with the modifications provided for in Article (iii) shall be Sheikh Abeid
Karume.
(vii) The President of the united Republic: in agreement with the Vice-President
who is head of the Executive in Zanzibar shall-
(a) Appoint a Commission to make proposals for a Constitution for the
united Republic.
(b) Summon a Constituent Assembly composed of Representatives from
Tanganyika and from Zanzibar in such numbers as they may determine to
meet within one year of the commencement of the union for the purpose
of considering the proposals of the Commission aforesaid and to adopt
a Constitution for the united Republic.
(viii) These Articles shall be subject to the enactment of laws by the Parliament of
Tanganyika and by the RevolutionaCryouncil of the Peoples' Republic of
Zanzibar in conjunction with the Cabinet of Ministers thereof, ratifying the
same and providing for the Government of the united Republic and of
Zanzibar in accordance therewith.
IN WITNESS WHERE Julius K. Nyerere, the President of the Republic of Tanganyika,
and Abeid Karume the President of the Peoples' Republic of Zanzibar have signed
these Articles, in duplicate, at Zanzibar, on this twenty-second day of April, 1964.
Passed in the National Assembly on the twenty-fifth day of April,
1964.
Clerk of the National Assembly
I hereby certify that the Bill for this Act was passed by the National
Assembly in accordance with the provisions f
Constitution.
on 35 of the
25th April, 1964.

 

[Buchanan]

Chapakazi, nilidhani ungechangia mjadala, ukaishia kugonga "senksi" tu. Thanks, anyway!

 

[ngoshwe]

Kuna masuala ambayo yapo katika Makubaliano ya Muungano (Articles of Union) lakini hayapo katika Katiba ya sasa ya URT. Hakika kama yalikuja kunyofolewa au kuongezewa baadae kwa maana ya Makubaliano mapya kt ya nchi hizi mbili huru. Haya yanaweza kuonyesha wazi kuwa yale yaliyokubalika baina ya Serikali za Tanganyika na Zanzibar kupitia Hati ya Muungano ya tarehe 22 Aprili 1964 yanaweza kutokuwa yale yaliyomo katika Katiba.


ARTICLES OF UNION

(b) the offices of two Vice-Presidents one of whom (being. a person normally
resident in Zanzibar) shall be the head of the aforesaid executive in and
for Zanzibar and shall be the principal assistant of the President of the
United Republic in the discharge of his executive functions in relation to
Zanzibar;
(c) the representation of Zanzibar in the Parliament of the United Republic;
(d) such other matters as may be expedient or desirable to give effect to the
united Republic and to these Articles.
(iv) There shall reserved to the Parliament and Executive of the united
Republic the following matters-
(a) The Constitution and Government of the united Republic.
(b) External Affairs.
(c) Defence.
(d) Police.
(e) Emergency Powers.
(f) Citizenship.
(g) Immigration.
(h) External Trade and Borrowing.
(i) The Public Service of the united Republic.
(j) Income Tax, Corporation Tax, Customs and Excise.
(k) Harbours, Civil Aviation, Posts and Telegraphs.
And the said Parliament and Executive shall have exclusive authority in such
matters throughout and for the purposes of the united Republic and in addition
exclusive authority in respect of all other matters in and for Tanganyika.

CONSTITUTION


art. 47.

-(1) There shall be a Vice-President, who shall be the principal​

assistant to the President in respect of all the matters in the United Republic​

generally and, in particular shall –

(a) assist the President in making a follow-up on the day-to-day

implementation of Union Matters;
(b) perform all duties assigned to him by the President; and
(c) perform all duties and functions of the office of President when the​

President is out of office or out of the country.​

_______​

FIRST SCHEDULE

_______

(Referred to in Article 4)
______
UNION MATTERS
1. The Constitution of Tanzania and the Government of the United Republic.
2. Foreign Affairs.
3. Defence and Security.
4. Police.
5. Emergency Powers.
6. Citizenship.
7. Immigration.
8. External borrowing and trade.
9. Service in the Government of the United Republic.
10. Income tax payable by individuals and by corporations, customs duty and excise duty on goods
manufactured in Tanzania collected by the Customs Department.
11. Harbours, matters relating to air transport, posts and telecommunications.
12. All matters concerning coinage and currency for the purposes of legal tender (including notes),
banks (including savings banks) and all banking business; foreign exchange and exchange control.
13. Industrial licensing and statistics.
14. Higher education.
15. Mineral oil resources, including crude oil other categories of oil or products and natural gas.
16. The National Examinations Council of Tanzania and all matters connected with the functions of
that Council.
17. Civil aviation.
18. Research.
19. Meteorology.
20. Statistics.
21. The Court of Appeal of the United Republic.​

​

​

22. Registration of political parties and other matters related to political parties.​

mtazamo:​

Aidha, hata yale ambayo yanajadiliwa na kukubalika katika Bunge na kuongezwa au kuondolewa katika Katiba, sina hakika kama pia yamewahi kuandaliwa Marekebisho kwenye Hati ya Muungano "Addendum to the Articles of Union" (japo pia sheria/ Hati ya Muungano haina Kipengelwe ya kuhusu marekebisho katika hati hiyo (amendments). Pia sijaona kipengele chochote katika Katiba ya sasa, hata kwenye utangulizi (Preamble) ambacho kinatambua uwepo wa hayo Makubaliano ya Muungano ya mwaka 1964 kwa maana ya kuyafanya hayo makubaliano kuwa hai kihistoria . Kwa sasa ni kama vile Katiba imeshika hatamu ya makubaliano mengine yeyote yaliyowahi kutokea na pia Katiba hiyo hiyo haielezi ni vipi Tanzania imekuwepo: ​

Haya ndiyo yaliyo katika utangulizi: ​

"PREAMBLE​

FOUNDATIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION

WHEREAS WE, the people of the United Republic of Tanzania, have

firmly and solemnly resolved to build in our country a society founded on the
principles of freedom, justice, fraternity and concord:
AND WHEREAS those principles can only be realised in a democratic
society in which the Executive is accountable to a Legislature composed of
elected members and representative of the people, and also a Judiciary which is
independent and dispenses justice without fear or favour, thereby ensuring that all
human rights are preserved and protected and that the duties of every person are
faithfully discharged:
NOW, THEREFORE, THIS CONSTITUTION IS ENACTED BY THE
CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED REPUBLIC OF TANZANIA,
on behalf of the People, for the purpose of building such a society and ensuring
that Tanzania is governed by a Government that adheres to the principles of ​

democracy and socialism and shall be a secular state."​

​

Haya ndio yaliypo katika Ibara 151 ya Katiba ya Jamhuri wa Muungano wa Tanzania inayotoa tafsiri ya maneno yaliyotumika katika Katiba. Kwa ujumla ni vigumu kwa mtu wa Kizazi kijacho kuweza kujua asili ya Tanzania kupitia Katiba ikiwa hatasoma historia kwenye nyaraka nyingine. ​

“Mainland Tanzania” means the whole of the territory of the United Republic​

which formerly was the territory of the Republic of Tanganyika;​

“Tanzania Zanzibar” means the whole of the territory of the United Republic​

which formerly was the territory of the People’s Republic of Zanzibar and which was previously referred to as “Tanzania Visiwani”; (NB: Neno "formely" halina tafsiri yeyote ndai ya Katiba na halieleweki ni "formely" ya tokea wapi/ linii"":frusty:​

“Zanzibar” has the same meaning as Tanzania Zanzibar.​

Tafrisi ya maneo haya katika Ibara ya 151 kwenye Katiba ya Kiswahili ndio tata zaidi ambapo inasomeka ifuatavyo:​

"Tanzania Bara" maana yake ni eneo lote la Jamhuri ya Muungano ambalo zamani lilikuwa eneo la Jamhuri ya Tanganyika;:frusty:​

"Tanzania Zanzibar" maana yake ni eneo lote la Jamhuri ya Muungano ambalo zamani lilikuwa eneo la Jamhuri ya
watu wa Zanzibar na ambalo kabla ya Sheria hii kutungwa liliitwa Tanzania Visiwani;​

"Zanzibar" maana yake ni sawa na maana ya Tanzania Zanzibar.​

Rejea pia Ibara ya 2.-(1) ambayo inatambua Tanzania kwa kifupi kama ifutavyo: ​

" The territory of the United Republic consists of the whole of the area of mainland Tanzania and the whole of the area of Tanzania Zanzibar, and includes the territorial waters"​

 

[Chapakazi]

Chapakazi, nilidhani ungechangia mjadala, ukaishia kugonga "senksi" tu. Thanks, anyway!

Mkuu...wengine tuna shughuli nyingi. Kuweka muda na kufanya vitu vya JF ni mdogo! But will go through it at my own pace and see!

 

[Buchanan]

Mkuu...wengine tuna shughuli nyingi. Kuweka muda na kufanya vitu vya JF ni mdogo! But will go through it at my own pace and see!

Ok, usijali!