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Isingekuwa ni muungano, hali ya kiuchumi na kisiasa zanzibar ingekuwaje?

Discussion in 'Biashara, Uchumi na Ujasiriamali' started by Gosbertgoodluck, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. Gosbertgoodluck

    Gosbertgoodluck JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Feb 19, 2011
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    Wandugu,

    Zamani ilikuwa ni kimya kimya, lakini sasa kumekuwa na kelele za waziwazi kutoka katika kila upande wa muungano. Kila upande unalaumu upande mwingine. Kelele hizo zinahusu namna muungano unavyofinya fursa za maendeleo ya kisiasa na kiuchumi. Kwa mfano, kuna mwandishi wa habari mmoja mwandamizi wa BBC anayeishi Zanzibar wakati fulani alidiriki hata kusema kwamba isingekuwa ni muungano, Zanzibar ingekuwa kama Dubai. Mwandishi huyo alifika mbali kiasi cha kusema kwamba hata chokochoko za kisiasa kati ya ccm na cuf zinachochewa zaidi na viongozi wa Tanzania bara.

    Je, kauli hiyo ya mwandishi wa habari ina ukweli kiasi gani?
     
  2. N

    Nonda JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu,
    Ukipata muda pitia hii link uone kuwa hata wenzetu ambao wanataka fuctioning EAC walikuja na darubini au niseme microscope kutaka kuujua huu Muungano wetu na unavyofanya kazi.
    Halafu ona tathmini yao na mapendekezo yao.
    Link ni hii

    http://www.kituochakatiba.org/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=1208&Itemid=27

    Pia nafikiri ni vyema kuipitia historia ya Zanzibar kiuchumi kabla na baada ya muungano hadi 1978. baada ya hapo ndio Zanzibar ilianza ku-decline katika kila nyanja.
    Kwa hiyo, kuna kaukweli kwenye hiyo kauli ya mwandishi kwa maoni yangu, hasa ukichukua nchi ndogo ndogo za visiwa zilivyo. ukiiondoa Comoro.
     
  3. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Kafatilie katika archive kujua GDP ya Zanzibar ilikuwa kiasi gani kabla ya muungano na per capital income ilikuwa kiasi gani. Maneno aliyoyasema huyo mwandishi kama yana ukweli. Na ufahamu Zanzibar ya zamani ilikuwa sio visiwa tu na Bandari kuu tatu nazo ni Mombasa, Dar-es-Salaam na Kilwa. Kwani Zanzibar ilikuwa visiwa viwili na ukanda wa pwani wote kuanzia Lamu mpaka Msumbiji.
     
  4. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Huenda wangekuwa kama Yemen. Kabla bei ya Karafuu kuanguka, ni kweli Uchumi wa zanzibar ulikuwa imara sana, lakini baada ya mazao hayo kufa, Uchumi wa zanzibar haukuwa na aternative nyingine. Kwa sasa hivi mambo ya Zenj yanakwenda vizuri kwa sababu ya utalii, ila iwapo wangekuwa alkaida wa kutaka wanawake wafunge nyuso zao kwa baibui, basi wangekuwa kama Yemeni ya leo.

    Labda kungekuwa na tofauati kidogo kama Zanzibar ingebaki chini ya Sultani wa Oman, lakini basi kwa utaratibu huo, Zanzibar ingekuwa ni nchi ya kiarabu na hawa wamatumbi wenzetu wasingekuwa na lao. Kwanza hata wasingeruhiswa kuchanganya damu na waarabu kama ambavyo Karume alilazimisha baada ya mapinduzi.
     
  5. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #5
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    ..Zanzibar ilishaanza kufilisika tangu wakati wa Sultani, na imeendelea kuporomoka mpaka leo.

    ..mwanzo walikuwa wanatawala ukanda wote wa pwani ya Afrika Mashariki, lakini kidogo kidogo wakaanza kuachia maeneo hayo. kwa uelewa wangu pwani ya Tanganyika iliuzwa na Sultani kwa Wajerumani.

    ..kusitishwa kwa biashara ya utumwa kulimuondolea Sultani moja ya vyanzo vyake vikuu vya mapato.

    ..ilifikia wakati utawala wa Zanzibar ukaondoka mikononi mwa Sultani na kuwa mikononi mwa Muingereza. hata "uhuru" wa Zanzibar walikuwa wanaudai kwa Muingereza.

    ..toka "uhuru" na MAPINDUZI mpaka kufikia 1980, uzalishaji wa zao la Karufuu ulianguka by two thirds. hilo ndilo lilikuwa pigo la mwisho kwa uchumi wa Zanzibar.

    ..sidhani kama muungano ndiyo ulioangusha uzalishaji wa karafuu. pia siamini kama muungano ndiyo unaozuia kuinuka kwa uzalishaji wa zao hilo Zanzibar.
     
  6. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Uimara wa uchumi wa Marekani ulitokana na mafanikio waliyoyapata karne ya 19 na 20 wakati ambapo uchumi wao ulikuwa mfululizo. Zanzibar before 1980 walikuwa na uchumi imara na figures zinaonyesha kuwa GDP Per Capital income ya mzanzibar before ilikuwa around £ 7,000 or (exchange rate ya 1980 ilikuwa 1£= 2.94 $) $20,580 per person. Huwezi kuwafananisha na Yemen mkuu kwa pato hilo.
     
  7. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    GDP Per capital income ya wazanzibar before 1980 ilikuwa around $20,580 utasemaje uchumi wao ulikuwa unategemewa kuanguka acha kupotosha ukweli mkuu.
     
  8. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    ..tafuteni kitabu kilichohaririwa na Prof.Malyamkono ndiyo mtajua jinsi Zanzibar ilivyo mzigo kwa wa-Tanganyika.


     
  9. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #9
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    Mdondoaji,

    ..Zanzibar walikuwa na uchumi imara vipi wakati inaeleweka kabisa kwamba uzalishaji wa karafuu ulikuwa unaporomoka kadiri muda unavyokwenda?

    ..miaka ya 60 Zanzibar walikuwa wanazalisha mpaka tani 14000 za karafuu. ilipofikia mwaka 1980 uzalishaji ulikuwa umeshuka mpaka tani 4000.

    ..sasa ukizingatia kwamba karafuu ndiyo chanzo kikuu cha mapato Zanzibar unategemea uchumi utaendelea kuwa imara??!!

    ..tatizo lenu wa-Zenj ni kwamba you live in DENIAL.
     
  10. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Professa Malyamkono nimekisoma kitabu chake it was a fabrication na lies na to be honest alikuwa hazungumzi ukweli. Anachodai hapa mfano:-

    They quantify the dependence at nearly 835 million US dollars in
    transfers between 1983-84 and 1998-99 in a new publication, entitled
    ‘The Political Plight of Zanzibar', launched after a two-year study in
    the island.


    Aliignore the fact uchumi za zanzibar before 1980s ulikuwa very strong na kuanguka kwa uchumi wa zanzibar kulianzia 1981 pale Indonesia walipoanza nao kuzalisha karafuu. Maneno haya aliyasema waziri wa Zanzibar namnukuu:-

    Deputy Minister of East African Community Mohamed Aboud says prior to the collapse of the clove industry in the 1980s, the Islands had per capital income of 7,000 British Pounds.

    Sasa what denial au ndio zile ajenda za Tanganyika kuitawala Zanzibar??? Jiulize kwanini hadi leo Tanzania katika mabohari tunatumia zana za kijeshi zilizonunuliwa 1970s jiulize hela ya kununua vifaa hivyo ilitoka wapi?
     
  11. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    Mdondoaji,

    ..OK tuachane na Malyamkono.

    ..hii habari ya uzalishaji wa karafuu kuanguka toka 14k tons mpaka 4k tons btn 60s to 1980 nimeitoa kwenye hotuba ya Maalim Seif. sasa sijui kama huyo naye analeta uongo na kampeni za Tanganyika kuitawala Zanzibar.

    ..sasa baada ya Indonesia nao kuanza kuzalisha karafuu, Zanzibar ilichukua hatua gani kupambana na ushindani huo?

    ..hakuna anayebisha kwamba Zanzibar ilikuwa imara wakati wa UTUMWA na UKOLONI. but somewhere down the line, Zanzibar made poor economic decisions na matokeo yake ndiyo matatizo mliyonayo.

    NB:

    ..umeeleza kwamba Zanzibar ilishindwa kukabiliana na ushindani wa Indonesia ktk kuzalisha karafuu.

    ..kwanini mnalaumu Tanganyika badala ya Indonesia kutokana na hali yenu ya uchumi?

    ..umeme tuwape bure, mishahara ya SMZ tulipe sisi, huoni kwamba ni Zanzibar ndiyo inaitawala Tanganyika?
     
  12. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

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    Ingekuwa kama Malaysia.

    Lakini wacha Wazanzibari wale laana yao. Kukubali ku-conspire na Waarabu na kuanza kusafirisha ndugu zetu wa Reli ya Kati na kupelekwa Mji Mkongwe na kutolewa korodani na mateso yote. Mungu alikuwa anaona.

    Lazima waisikilizie.

    Wataendelea hivyo hivyo na ubaguzi. Ubaguzi ni dhambi sawa na dhambi ya kula nyama ya mtu. Wataendelea na ubaguzi na umasikini wao mpaka kiama.
     
  13. Gosbertgoodluck

    Gosbertgoodluck JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi zaidi ya karafuu, utalii na bandari kuna fursa gani zingine za maana za kiuchumi Zanzibar? Au ndiyo hayo mafuta tunayoambiwa yapo na yameanza kuleta chokochoko?
     
  14. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Joka Kuu,

    Kwanza naomba usahihishe kauli yako wazanzibari hawakufanya bad economic decisions but rather bad political decisions. Hii ni kwasababu ukisoma historical data za Zanzibar zilikuwa zinaonyesha uchumi wa zanzibar ulikuwa imara na stable before Muungano wa zanzibar na Tanganyika. Kilichotokea kila mtu anajua. Kuna reference mbali mbali zinasupport ninachokisema mfano:-

    In Zanzibar and its sister island, Pemba, the little buds are big business. But annual clove sales here have plummeted by 80% since the 1970s. The semi-autonomous islands, which merged with mainland Tanganyika in 1964 to form Tanzania, were once the world's largest producers of cloves, but now rank a distant third in a market dominated by Indonesia, which supplies 75%, compared with Zanzibar's 7%.

    (Edmund Sanders, 2005 LA Times)

    Na anaelezea sababu za kuanguka kwa uzalishaji ni:-

    Zanzibar's clove industry has been crippled by a fast-moving global market, international competition and a hangover from Tanzania's failed experiment with socialism in the 1960s and '70s, when the government controlled clove prices and exports.
    [​IMG]
    (Edmund, 2005)

    Therefore, utaona kuwa kilichochangia kuanguka uchumi wa Zanzibar ni political miscalculations walizozitumia na sababu zinaeleweka kwanini Karume aliikubali usocialism kwani alijua the only way he can stay in power ni kuungana na Nyerere.

    Kusema uchumi wa zanzibar utanyanyuka vp niliwahi kuwaambia nyuma hawa ndugu zetu wakiamua kujitoa tutawalilia na sasa ngoja nikufafanulie kauli yangu:-

    1. Kwanza mipaka ya zanzibar ilinyang'anywa na waingereza wakati wa British Protectorate. Zanzibar ilikuwa ni visiwa na umbali wa Kilometa 10 mainland kuanzia Lamu mpaka msumbiji. Ndio maana mihimili ya uchumi wa zanzibar ilikuwa biashara , bandari na slave trade (enzi hizo ilikuwa a booming sector na hata waingereza na wamarekani walikuwa wakiifanya). Nilisoma kitabu fulani kuna sufficient grounds za kuweza kulifikisha suala la zanzibar mahakamani kama wakitaka na ndio maana Tanzania na Kenya hawataki zanzibar ijitenge mpaka kesho. Zaidi soma haya maelezo:-

    After World War I, GERMAN EAST AFRICA, now named Tanganyika, as a B mandate of the LEAGUE OF NATIONS, was granted to Britain. Little changed on Zanzibar, which continuously was treated as a British protectorate.
    There was no British attempt to settle the island. The island, having lost it's economic hinterland in 1886 - the mainland ports of Mombasa (Kenya) and Daressalaam (Tanganyika) had taken over the port functions for these areas - now depended on it's main export product, cloves.
    In 1926, a LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY was introduced which took over the function of the advisory council. The laws of Zanzibar (based on Islamic law, new decrees influenced by British law) were first codified in 1922.
    British residents : 1930-1937 Sir R.S. Rankine, 1937-1940 Sir J.H. Hall. According to a census undertaken in 1931, the population of Zanzibar and Pemba combined was 250,000, of them 199,750 Africans, 34,000 Arabs, 16,000 Indians, 250 Europeans.
    Until 1936 the Indian rupee, the Omani pice and Zanzibar currency board coins were simultaneously used. In 1936 Zanzibar joined the EAST AFRICAN CURRENCY BASIN, the standard coin being the East African Shilling. Zanzibar and Pemba continued to dominate world CLOVE production.


    (World History Korean Minjkok Leadership Academy).


    Sasa jiulize mwaka 1886 kulikuwa na kitu gani?Heligoland treaty ambayo walifanya Waingereza na Wajerumani bila ya kumshirikisha Kiongozi wa zanzibar aliyekuwa Sultan Bargrash. Tena kuna mwanasheria mmoja wa International laws aliwahi kunambia kama wazanzibar wanataka wanashinda hiyo kesi kwa muda mfupi kwani vigezo vingi viko clear kabisa na hakuna jinsi ya kupinga from both Kenya, Tanzania na Msumbiji. Ukitaka ramani hiyo click link hapo chini:-

    Unimaps.com - Tanganyika & Zanzibar, 1886



    2. Pili zanzibar wana kipi cha kuzalisha, kwanza kaa ukijua Zanzibar ya sasa wakiamua kwenda kivyao na wakarudishiwa ukanda wa pwani inamaana uchumi wa zanzibar utakuwa na bandari kuu tatu Mombasa, Dar na Tanga (hicho kitakuwa chanzo kimoja kikuu ukijumuisha na bandari ya zanzibar). Vilevile wakiweza kulinyanyua zao la karafuu litaongeza pato la zanzibar , Utalii ni sekta nyengine inayokuwa kwa kasi sana (ndio maana uchumi za zanzibar unakuwa mara mbili ya Tanganyika sasa hivi), Mafuta nayo sekta nyengine mama. Sasa mkuu hembu nikuulize hivi vyanzo havitoshi wao kujikwamua???
     
  15. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu wakikamata bandari tutalia Tanganyika kama hujui ninalolisema waulize waganda kwanini mpaka leo wanalia wana mafuta but uchumi bado ni weak kuwa a landlocked country is a big disadvantage kaka.....
     
  16. Mohammed Shossi

    Mohammed Shossi Verified User

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    Mkuu kwenye list ya biashara za utumwa umesahau ku include mikoa miwili ya Zanzibar nayo ni Kilwa na Bagamoyo maana kwenye hizo sehemu za zanzibar yaani Kilwa na Bagamoyo walikukubali ku-conspire na Waarabu na kuanza kusafirisha ndugu zetu wa Reli ya Kati na kupelekwa Kilwa na Bagamoyo na kutolewa korodani na mateso yote. Mungu alikuwa anaona.

    Kikubwa Zanzibar ni nchi ya kwanza Afrika kuwa na taa za barabarani na ni nchi ya kwanza Afrika kuwa na kituo cha televisheni ya rangi. Naamini kama Karume angekuwa hai na Zanzibar isingeingia kwenye Muungano wangekuwa si wenzetu wangekuwa wamepika hatua miaka mia mbele yetu. Huo ndio ukweli mkubali mkatae.

    Nawakilisha.
     
  17. Mohammed Shossi

    Mohammed Shossi Verified User

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    Nchi kama Dubai wao wanategemea bandari yao huru ambayo imeifanya Dubai kuwa kituo kikubwa cha biashara ulimwenguni. Watu wanaoenda Dubai kufuata biashara wanaingizia nchi mamilioni ya dolla kwa kulala kwenye hoteli zao na kutumia pesa wanapokuwa huko.

    Utalii ni moja ya sehemu inayoingiza pesa nyingi Zanzibar na wakati ule Zanzibar (kabla ya TRA) kuanzishwa mizigo mingi ilikuwa ikiingizwa Zanzzibar wafanya biashara wengi walikuwa wanaenda kuchukua mali Zanzibar na kuleta huku bara na sehemu nyinginezo. Kuiua bandari ya Zanzibar pia kumechangia kuididmiza Zanzibar kimaendeleo. Nilipata kusikia kuwa wanampango wa kuifanya bandari yao kuwa bandari huru lakini nadhani ilikuwa ni siasa tu.
     
  18. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Shossi,

    Ongezea na Zanzibar ilikuwa nchi ya kwanza Africa Mashariki kuwa na benki za ulaya, Standard Bank (British overseas bank sasa hivi inajulikana kama Standard Chartered Bank) and National and Grindlay Bank (another british overseas bank).
     
  19. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Mie nilimsikia waziri mmoja akisema wanatenga eneo la bandari huru ila nahisi ni siasa tu!!!
     
  20. Mohammed Shossi

    Mohammed Shossi Verified User

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    Mdonoaji mimi si mzanzibari ila nafuatilia sana historia sio tu ya Zanzibar hata ya nchi inazoizunguka Tanzania hayo yote ni ya kweli unayosema kikubwa nikuwa Karume "baba" alikuwa seamen alitembea nchi nyingi na kujionea walivyopiga hatua wewe fikiria pale michenzani nyumba ziliyengwa miaka ya sitini yule mzee alijenga barabara nne mbili kila sehemu wakati ule sidhani kama kulikuwa na haja ya kufanya vile ila hakuangalia wakati ule alijua wazanzibar wataongezeka na mji utapanuka. Leo hii hapa mjini mfano barabara ya uhuru kutokea clocktowe mpaka pale inapoanza buguruni ni barabara ya njia moja kila upande! sisi nadhali tuliangalia mahitaji ya wakati ule tu hatukujua kama Dsm itakuwa.

    Viongozi wetu MashaAllah kila siku wanasafiri wanaona mambo mengi ya kuweza kuja kuya introduce huku kwetu ila wakishapanda ndege huwa wanayaacha airport za wenzetu.! Hatuna mipango hatujui hata mahitaji yetu! Betri yangu ya laptop ipo low as umeme hakuna tangu asubuhi hehehehe.....:wink2:
     
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