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Is Dr. Slaa/Chadema against Free Market in Tanzania?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kobello, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. Kobello

    Kobello JF-Expert Member

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    Firs,let me remind dr slaa that CDMs constitution supports free market.Free market is controlled mainly by forces of demand and supply.
    Having said that,I find it weird when you criticize the government for not controlling the ongoing food price hikes esp. sugar.Dont you think that the market regulates itself based on consumer's demand?because by you complaining,you made our weak government ease import tarrifs and invade the market by ordering tens of thousands of tonnes of sugar just to lower the price.This affected government revenues and stimulated a fake,subsidized economy that most African countries relies on.
    Second,in a free market system and even in international politicoeconomic arena,a public corporation is owned by the public,that is to say the people.But private corporations are owned by private individual(s) and they stand alone as an organisation.LET ME CLARIFY MY POINT,a corporation per se is a PERSON! a corporation is different from the owner(s),a corporation has the rights as a person regardless of who owns it,a corporation can sue or be sued,you can't insist on who owns that corporation,you deal with a corporation as a person,you don't deal with a person as a corporation.
    CONCLUSIVE REMARKS:
    I think it's about time you quit talking and asking about who really owns dowans,thats irrelevant of the whole issue and is against what your party stands for.Let the market works on itself and try to mobilise Tanzanians to participate in free market.The dowans saga was actually facilitated by your findings which lacked a concrete case,and was used by our weak govt to revoke a legally bound contract,the result,power shedding and over 60m$ loss to the govt and hence people of Tanzania.We really didnt have to do that!
    Our govt didnt even pay dowans 24m$ that resulted from them providing electricity to our national grid for 9 months,thats unfair and evil,and it really discourage investment.At the end of the day,Tanzania lost due to arrogance shown by our loud-mouthed,no strategy opposition camp.
    Sorry,I JUST HAD TO CLEAR THAT OFF MY CHEST!
     
  2. Gsana

    Gsana JF-Expert Member

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    Do you know factors influencing demand? Supply? The answer dwells amongst factors men! Don't ignore company law that makes it clear on shareholders and managing directors. Outspoken opposition camp is actually what saves our resources. I assure you,fisadis are disperately pressured,regardless of your sponsored idea n courage to humiliate opposition citizens! Have a gud nite!
     
  3. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    How dumb this Kobello-guy is?
    So we should not ask..'who owns Dowans', just because its a corporation!...and you think you are serious?
    You perfectly know that a corporation should have a management team, with a well defined organizational chart!..Did you find such a thing with Dowans?...If there was any management, why would we be troubled looking for the owner, who kept changing, from some alien to the other?

    I wonder how mechanical you people are...Why dont you work on your own until you wait for the proper orders from an individual/?...
    Why then not try him for the highest office in country so that you make your two ends meet?...
     
  4. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    Kobelo has a point, tusimshambulie bali tumpe nafasi aeleze zaidi

    kiuchumi hoja ya kobelo ina mashiko lakini kisiasa haina... can we approach this thread with open mind?:A S 13:
     
  5. M

    Mutu JF-Expert Member

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    I'm so to say that " upupu never change its state even if you put in to LATIN language"

    OK long story short can you mention one country known as "Capitalist at it best" where the Gov is not responsible on controlling price , and whatever you mentioned.

    Are you serous ?? How can we quit talking about fake company "Dowans" which is about to take our dam tax money??!!!!A lot of need those money ..we gonna make sure Dowans aint going to get nothing ...nothing ..if you and your evil pay master gonna force you gonna break it.
    Anyway what you call "conclusive remarks" you need to find someone help you with proof reading, I just can tell what you mean but not crystal clear .
     
  6. p

    politiki JF-Expert Member

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    free market including free speech, you are shutting down freedom of expression by telling others to stop discussing about dowans , don't you know that freedom of speech is a part of package in attainng free market. free market is a product of free expression on regulations, policy and fairness on market without them the free market will be chaos na ukichaa.
     
  7. F

    Felister JF-Expert Member

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    Kwakuongezea mbona Dr. alishatolea maelezo hilo before kwamba soko huria is not synonymous to soko holela. Get your concepts right; in real world there is nothing like free market...this operates to a limited extent and when the 'market fails' (dont take the direct translation of the word fail only with reference to economics) government intervention is the only solution. What we observe can not be taken for simplicity there are a lot in it...What is needed is serious people to seat down and rethink on what are the real causes of the inflation is it brought by exogenous or endogenous factors, which are they!

    It can also be the political uncertainty which working class is experiencing think of the delays of wakuu wa mikoa, makatibu wakuu, wakuu wa wilaya etc not being sure of their fate kwasababu hawajawa comfirmed kama ilivyo kawaida kila baada ya chaguzi(just thinking loudly). consequently as a number one principal one can not earn what s/he does not produce..hii ni principal ya kwanza kwenye vitabu vyote vya uchumi. Kwa hiyo kama labour tax ndiyo inayobeba uchumi meaning ndo chanzo kikuu cha mapato any small change in it ina sababisha distabilization inflation ikiwa output kutokana na speculations kwenye Return On Investment (ROT).

    On the other hand what CHADEMA is doing can also cause such kind of uncertainty...ndiyo maana wanapo weka presure kidogo na serikali ku respond positively haitakiwi na sisi kuwalazimisha kuendelea acha wa break kwanza kuipa serikali muda na wafanyakazi mood ya kuendelea na kazi. Haya ni mawazo tu lakini washauri wa uchumi wa nchi wana data za kutosha kumshauri Rais chakufanya maana yangu mimi ni based on theories and assumptions zaidi kuliko reality na hivyo sina tofauti na mtoa mada...Operating in theoratical realms!
     
  8. Sooth

    Sooth JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi hapa nitakukosoa kwa kiingereza chako. Sio kizuri, ungeweza kuandika tu kwa kiswahili, hasa kwakuwa MM anakielewa.
     
  9. S

    Seamoss New Member

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    First of all, I think you are being Naive to think that there is a completely free market economy.
    The United States, the EU and Japan provide the biggest agriculture subsidies in the world. These billion of dollars in subsidies are driving the poorest countries in the world deeper into poverty.
    Therefore the market does not regulates itself, the supply and demand in the global market is subsidize by Western governments, making it cheaper to produce food in the western countries.


    Did you know that....


    The United States, Europe and Japan spend $350 billion each year on agricultural subsidies
    Now let me put this into perspective, this is seven time greater global aid to poor countries.


    According to Mark Malloch Brown, the head of the United Nations Development Program farm subsidies cost poor countries about $50 billion a year in lost agricultural exports.


    So my dear friend Kobello when you start laying your textbook Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan free market economics on us. I want you to know that it does not work even the most free market is regulate. And when the market is not regulated we have a financial meltdown.
    I think that Tanzania has the right to protect is people from a broken world market. And if it means providing subsidizes and regulating the market, then so be it.


    I totally understand if the sugar crises does not affect you but it affects million of Tanzanian.


    Now my dear friend Kobello you said that
    At the end of the day,Tanzania lost due to arrogance shown by our loud-mouthed,no strategy opposition camp.


    I find it strange that you are blaming the opposition for the policy of the ruling party. The same party that has been governing a country since its time of independence. Maybe you right maybe the opposition is responsible for the booming in Gongo la Mboto.
     
  10. Suki

    Suki JF-Expert Member

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    Good observation and sensible worry BUT you see, unlike your classic microeconomics market situation, the current sugar crisis has very little to do with the consumers' demands but everything with the supply chain and firms' decisions. Simply put, sugar suppliers are holding on to their stock and play into consumers' expectations to their ultimate gain. It's a neafty lil trick if you ask me, just sooo eighties and of course, costs a welfare. Why do these suppliers hold so much power as to drive the lives of Tanzanians into the drain? Well, are they made to believe they should behave differently?

    Government importation of sugar to lower prices? Where do you get that kind of causal thinking? Just because it seems so in basic trade economics, doesn't mean that's the name of the game. Involve your head a little and you'll see why.
    Just the other day, ''Kingkwete'' pointed out that the country is forced to import due to seasonal fluctuations that affect sugar production in the country during the months February,March,April and May. Now, I don't always agree with this dude, but he's got a point. However, I don't understand why at the current rate of growth and population increase, we still depend on two refineries for the year-round supply of sugar.

    But there is something you raise that catches my interest, for better or worse: ''A fake, subsidized economy''? So, I won't go on to making assumption about what your point is and hope you come back and quench my curiosity.
     
  11. Suki

    Suki JF-Expert Member

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    Oh! I almost forgot, DOWANS...
    Curtains rise: To be, or not to be: that is the question...
     
  12. n

    niweze JF-Expert Member

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    Haya msomi mwingine asietilia maanani darasani. Kazi mnafanya kubundi tu na kuacha kila kitu pale mkipata vyeti. Dr Slaa umemsikia akizungumzia true free market au unamsikiliza msanii na kumchanganya. Dr Slaa anapigania true free market sio hii ya back door deals. What have you benefited from ccm free market? Hizo simu za mikononi na Dowans ndio mafanikio yako? au TBL ambayo ilikuwa ina-run for profit na kusukwa kwa manufaa ya mtu mmoja? Tueleze details za free market ya msanii.

    For your information Chadema is not even close to make decisions for Tanzanians because things will change. Chadema isn't allowed even to participate and contribute in building policies of this government. First of all Chadema won the election in true mandate no matter what ccm is saying. Tanzanians know the truth. Let's talk about this parliament and Makinda. You ccm violated democratic principles again and changed the rules to block Chadema from building strong opposition for the better of Tanzanians. How do you want Chadema to contribute and prove that they can provide leadership while ccm spends time following them around. If you are not criminals and prevent the people of Tanzanians to see those gov. documents? Dr Slaa spoke several times of what Tanzania should look like and where the country should go. Dr Slaa spoke about "Constitution for Tanzanians" and "Transparency" are these not core values of democracy and developments? I think you are dreaming and sipping ccm juice too much. You are fighting the people.My suggestion for you is watch Libya you might get a crew or what will happen in Tanzania in few days.
     
  13. eliesikia

    eliesikia JF-Expert Member

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    jk kaeleza vizuri tuu kwa nini bei ya sukari iko juu kwenye hotuba yake.... HUKUELEWA??? Pole saaana uelewa wako uko mdogo labda... aah labda NO economics au Madesa zaidi na kubundi
    Kasema wafanyabiashara wa kitanzania wana-control soko kwa kupunguza supply... Sasa u cant meet a desirable price equilibrium in that style..
    Now, its a matter of a government to allow foreign market to regulate our price.. Hii ni kwa kutoa kodi kwenye sukari zote toka nje... Huwezi amini sukari toka Pakistani bei ndogo kuliko Tanzania na wakija kila kitu kina-set hawa jamaa wa hapa watalazimika kuwa wabunifu waendanane na regulated market...

    nawasilisha
     
  14. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Do we have a free market when we don't have regulation and let the market "decide"? by the so called (in classical economy) - 'the invisible hand' of the market?
     
  15. Nguruvi3

    Nguruvi3 Platinum Member

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    There is a misconception on the concept of free market. Free market does not mean uncontrolled business. It has never happened in the so called champion of free market the likes of US an EU. In united states there is a consumer protection act and in Canada fairness and competition commission etc. These organs are there for checks and balance without dictating the market trend. Example, in Uk there are companies colluded to sabotage competitors by merging and lowering the commodity price. The company were penalized.
    In Tanzania the sugar shortage is the result of conspiracy within business community to hike the price and exploit consumers. It happened two years ago when the oil importers deliberately created scarcity in the market to exploit consumers. In this situation, should the government stay aside because of the so called free market? Is it not fair for Chadema to signal the public concern?

    Secondly, Miss Stewart, Madoeff and Black Conrad are few tycoons who owned the big Corps. As CEO's they were subjected to the federal law to answer charges leveled against them in relation to their Organization.
    Wananchi wanted to clear the doubt about who real own Dowans after series of conflicting information and sometime denial from owners. The easy way is to find who the CEO of Dowans is. If for resistance, RA would have come forward to speak for Dowans no one was interested to speculate more on the ownership. Unfortunate, despite the power of attorney vested on to him, he was operating by remote control, something compelled the public to find out, why the clean business is operated secretly, with government back up in a way.!! Isn't fair?
     
  16. b

    bagamoyo JF-Expert Member

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    Kobello,
    Kwa kifupi nafikiri unahitaji kujua MARKET FAILURE pia wakati FREE MARKET inaposhindwa. Free-Market au Free economy au capitalist economy nayo ina mapungufu yake.

    USA pamoja na kuwa free/market oriented economy kuna masuala serikali lazima iingilie mfano BUY-American policy ili kuvilinda viwanda na nafasi za kazi ndani ya USA kutokana na China kufurisha soko la USA na vitu toka China vya bei ndogo, au wafanya-biashara walafi wachache wa Ki-Marekani kufunga viwanda vyao vya USA na kuvipeleka China.

    Pia kuna wakati wafanya biashara wa kutoka Uarabuni walishinda tenda ya kuendesha bandari za USA kupitia free/market theories, lakini serikali ya USA ikasimama kidete kupinga bandari za USA kuendeshwa na wageni kwa sababu za kwanza usalama-wa-taifa na pili siri-za-kibiashara.

    Mifano hiyo miwili hapo juu inaelezea MARKET FAILURE kutokana na sababu za ndani ya nchi au nje ya nchi. Ikitokea wafanyabiashara wanahodhi 'soko huria' kuwa 'soko holela' basi kuna haja ya serikali kuingilia kati au hata kupiga kelele kwa kukemea.

    Kwa vile serikali ya CCM imeshindwa kupiga kelele au kukemea wafanyabiashara kuendekeza soko-holela au serikali kutoa 'ruzuku'(subsidize) au SUDECO(sugar development corp) kufanya biashara ya sukari ya ku-import/whole-sale, basi CHADEMA wamefanya kazi nzuri ya kuikumbusha serikali wajibu wake wa kuhakikisha kuwa bei za bidhaa hazitasababisha maisha ya wa-Tanzania kuwa magumu na kuhatarisha amani nchini Tanzania.
     
  17. Speaker

    Speaker JF-Expert Member

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    It seems like you are being feed up with cocaine by the one sent you to state your craps here!

    Am hungry
     
  18. Mwanamayu

    Mwanamayu JF-Expert Member

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    What EWURA is doing? What TCRA is doing?
     
  19. Kobello

    Kobello JF-Expert Member

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    First of all suki,removing tarrifs is just the same as importation on government's back(governmental import stimulation).
    and i'm not trying to kick knowledge on anybody.We have opposition camp which is supposedly pro-free trade,and at the same time act like they are "chavistas" all of a sudden.
    Developed economies can subsidize their farmers because they have the means to convert natural resources for their benefit,we don't.They protect their workers and farmers simply because they can do that.
    We cant even build a hundred miles of tarmac roads without help from donors and you still expect govt sbsidy?Thats so fake! And is not going to get us anywhere.
    I expect Dr. Slaa to encourage us to be more productive and innovative and less dependent on our failed government or donors.Lets work harder,reduce unnecessary spending and create a suitable environment for investment local and foreign. Anything else is blah blah!
     
  20. w

    wasp JF-Expert Member

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    Kobello if really you are an economist and you are a believer of free market, then why do we have regulatory institutions like EWURA, SUMATRA etc?
     
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