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Is Aid to Africa working?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kweli, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. Kweli

    Kweli JF-Expert Member

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    I was watching BBC Newsnight here in London on wednesday July the ninth, they had a feature by John Githongo discussing whether the money donated by rich countries to Africa are really benefited the target? Interesting to hear the views of general public, former and current leaders and our beloved Kabwe. Here is the link below:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/7496710.stm
     
  2. D

    DAR si LAMU JF-Expert Member

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    ..aid, especially monetary one,is keeping us from being dependent.

    ..it makes us even poorer!
     
  3. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    politics of Aid tunaweza kujadili na majadala hautafika tamati! Tutashangaa hatupati maendeleo despite the huge amounts we are getting. At one time tuliambiwa kuwa TZ is a bottomless pit maana no matter how much we receive there is no impact.

    Consider the fact that greater chunk of it inawarudia wenyewe through the procurement of goods and services ambapo condition ya huo msaada ni kuwapa watu wao na kampuni zao kazi! Wanazileta huku halafu wanazifuata wenyewe.
     
  4. NaimaOmari

    NaimaOmari JF-Expert Member

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    yeeees this increases depency ... we depend on them mpaka akili .. they decide for us who will be our president and so on .... guess this will never end maana wametumiliki kisawasawa ... mkifanya nyodo kidogo tu wanafunga milango tena kwa kuwatangazia dunia nzima kwamba hawatowasaidia na hata washirika wao wote wanawaunga mkono ... mpaka you succumb to their needs

    This is slavery just like old times ila wamebadilisha tacticts kidogo ... unaendeshwa ukiwa at the comfort of your country/house!!!!!!
     
  5. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    I don't believe foreign aid is Africa's problem. If allocated probably, invested wisely aid money could make a difference for the better. It is also wishful thinking to believe if aid is stopped today, it would force Africans to become independent. If anything stopping foreign aid would push more people into starvation, poverty, conflicts etc.

    The more important question to ask is how come a country like Iceland with little to no natural resources can become so successful economically while most African countries with abundance of natural resources, tourist attractions are among the poorest in the world?
     
  6. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Man this is a very simple question. It depends on how you want it answered. The main problem in Africa today is not money, though many wants us to believe so, the main problem is poor management of economy, corruption and misuse and misallocation of resources.
    You can see now in Tanzania, we have enough money to get our economy to decent standards but just look on how we allocate our money. We have a government which is not interested in seeing Tanzania making a step forward, but those who are in the government are very keen in seeing their bank accounts in Europe are getting fat and fatter.
    Iceland is a small country with people who are Patriotic and are commited in developing their country, no corruption, hard working, and so many which if we do we will be better than them.
     
  7. Kevo

    Kevo JF-Expert Member

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    Increase of over dependence and neo-colonialism.Its helping us by making the few top leaders rich and more richer while the majority of Tanzanians lavishing in utter poverty.
     
  8. Richard

    Richard JF-Expert Member

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    Kuna vitu viwili muhimu sana wameongea mheshimiwa jaji Warioba na afisa wa ubalozi wa Uingereza.

    Jaji Warioba amesema kwamba rushwa imekithiri katika siasa zaidi kutoka kwa wananchi kwa maana kwamba wanasiasa ndio wanaendeleza rushwa.

    Yule ofisa wa ubalozi amesema kwa kwa sasa kuna mjadala zaidi na habari za UFISADI zinaanikwa sana kuliko miaka ya nyuma kupitia vyombo vya habari.

    Haya ni maendeleo ambayo ni lazima yatafutiwe dawa na dawa hiyo ni kuhakikisha kwamba wanasiasa wanakuwa accountable kwa wanayofanya na wananchi wanashirikishwa kujenga utaifa kwa kutumia hizo fwedha za misaada.
     
  9. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    What about Nyerere? Would you characterize him as not interested in seeing Tanzania making a step forward or keen in fattening his bank accounts in Europe?
     
  10. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    ....The Truth, peponi umetoka lini wewe?!! naona umechanganya ugolo na tambuu leo.... lol
     
  11. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Misaada inaweza kufanya kazi tu ikiwa tutaitafuta tukiwa na plani zetu za kuitumia kwa ajili ya kukuza uchumi tu, siyo kuendesha serikali. Kwa mfano, tungetafuta misaada kwa ajili ya kuboresha infrastructures zetu tu bila kulipia gharama za kuendesha serikali.

    Misaada inapotumika kuendesha serikali matokeo yake tunakuwa wavivu na wezi.
     
  12. BiMkubwa

    BiMkubwa JF-Expert Member

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    Unajua there is alot of irony katika hili swali zito alilouliza mwenzetu?? Wala sitaki kwenda mbali maana jibu la hili swali tunalo wenyewe humu ndani.

    Kama majibu yako ya maswali nitakalouliza hapa yote ni NDIO kwa swali la kwanza na la pili na HAPANA kwa swali la 3 na la 4, basi ujue there is no way tukajikwamua katika hili

    1. Je umeshawahi kumpa msaada mtu (especially ndugu) yeyote?

    2. Huo msaada ulikuwa wa kifedha?

    3. Je hizo fedha zilipotumika huyo mtu alikuja akakupa feedback kuhusu mafanikio aliyopata kutokana na fedha hizo?

    4. Je hizo fedha zilimsaidia huyo ndugu na hakurudi kukuomba fedha tena?

    Binafsi naona tatizo hili ni sugu. AID huwa inatolewa sana. Nimetembea sana Tanzania kwenye vijiji mbalimbali ku-assess iwapo malengo mengi yanafanikiwa hasa wakati wa Mkapa. Kusema ukweli, there was something going on and you could see some ground work. Ila sasa urasimu, unyonyaji, wizi mdogomdogo na mkubwa ulikuwa unafanyika. Tatizo Sisi hatuangalii kuwa tunajiibia wenyewe, hatufikirii watu wengine. Tumeuchukulia ubinafsi tofauti na wenzetu wenye ubinafsi wenyewe. Yaani ni shda tupu.

    I may sound pessimistic katika hili. Ila ninadhani we need a new crop of leadership and thought system otherwise tukiendelea hivi wimb utakuwa huohuo mwisho tutarudi kuomba tuwe chini ya ukoloni fulani. We need change!
     
  13. Kaa la Moto

    Kaa la Moto JF-Expert Member

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    Misaada ya kifedha ni utumwa tu. Je sisi tumesaidia wangapi? Vijiserikali vyetu vimeshindwa hata kusaidia yatima tu? sisi ni watumwa na sawa na Matonya. Mnamkumbuka Matonya? Hawa ndio viongozi wetu.
     
  14. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    ...ni akili ndogo tuu ndio maana hatuendelei,mjinga hata umpe nini atabaki palepale huku akitoa vizingizio kibao...angalia mkataba wa Richmond kama ile sio akili ndogo(ujinga) utaita nini?
     
  15. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    Hapo umegusa penyewe.Patriotism ndio itakayojenga nchi zetu.Lakini ni muhimu kutambua kuwa patritism is not gained by default,inabidi ipandwe na kupaliliwa kwa watoto wa nchi zetu.Ndio maani kila nikipata fursa huwa nazungumzia umuhimu wa somo la falsafa ya utaifa na elimu ya uraia.

    This way watu wataelewa kuwa dereva anayenyonya mafuta toka kwenye gari la serikali ili auze hachezi deal ila analiibia taifa na anapaswa kushughulikiwa kama anavyoshughulikiwa mwizi wa kuchomoa mfukoni,the same to officers wanaoabuse office.
     
  16. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    Back to the original question of this thread...I found an interesting article attempting to answer that question.

    Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS

    No. It will not do. Even as we see African states refusing to take action to restore something resembling civilisation in Zimbabwe, the begging bowl for Ethiopia is being passed around to us, yet again.

    It is nearly 25 years since Ethiopia's (and Bob Geldof's) famous Feed The World campaign, and in that time Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78 million today.

    So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country? Where is the logic? There is none. To be sure, there are two things saying that logic doesn't count.

    One is my conscience, and the other is the picture, yet again, of another wide-eyed child, yet again, gazing, yet again, at the camera, which yet again, captures the tragedy of . . .

    Sorry. My conscience has toured this territory on foot and financially. Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like most of you, I have stumped up the loot to charities to stop starvation there. The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes him.

    There is, no doubt a good argument why we should prolong this predatory and dysfunctional economic, social and sexual system; but I do not know what it is. There is, on the other hand, every reason not to write a column like this.

    It will win no friends, and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of, well, the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral superiority. It will also probably enrage some of the finest men in Irish life, like John O'Shea, of Goal; and the Finucane brothers, men whom I admire enormously. So be it.

    But, please, please, you self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of our own Famine, with this or that lazy analogy. There is no comparison. Within 20 years of the Famine, the Irish population was down by 30pc. Over the equivalent period, thanks to western food, the Mercedes 10-wheel truck and the Lockheed Hercules, Ethiopia's has more than doubled.

    Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness. Somewhere, over the rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, Kalashnikov-toting, khat-chewing, girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts.

    Indeed, we now have almost an entire continent of sexually

    hyperactive indigents, with tens of millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside world.

    This dependency has not stimulated political prudence or commonsense. Indeed, voodoo idiocy seems to be in the ascendant, with the next president of South Africa being a firm believer in the efficacy of a little tap water on the post-coital penis as a sure preventative against infection. Needless to say, poverty, hunger and societal meltdown have not prevented idiotic wars involving Tigre, Uganda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea etcetera.

    Broad brush-strokes, to be sure. But broad brush-strokes are often the way that history paints its gaudier, if more decisive, chapters. Japan, China, Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th century have endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of Africa.

    They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

    Meanwhile, Africa's peoples are outstripping their resources, and causing catastrophic ecological degradation. By 2050, the population of Ethiopia will be 177 million: The equivalent of France, Germany and Benelux today, but located on the parched and increasingly protein-free wastelands of the Great Rift Valley.

    So, how much sense does it make for us actively to increase the adult population of what is already a vastly over-populated, environmentally devastated and economically dependent country?

    How much morality is there in saving an Ethiopian child from starvation today, for it to survive to a life of brutal circumcision, poverty, hunger, violence and sexual abuse, resulting in another half-dozen such wide-eyed children, with comparably jolly little lives ahead of them? Of course, it might make you feel better, which is a prime reason for so much charity. But that is not good enough.

    For self-serving generosity has been one of the curses of Africa. It has sustained political systems which would otherwise have collapsed.

    It prolonged the Eritrean-Ethiopian war by nearly a decade. It is inspiring Bill Gates' programme to rid the continent of malaria, when, in the almost complete absence of personal self-discipline, that disease is one of the most efficacious forms of population-control now operating.

    If his programme is successful, tens of millions of children who would otherwise have died in infancy will survive to adulthood, he boasts. Oh good: then what?I know. Let them all come here. Yes, that's an idea.

    kmyers@independent.ie

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/africa-is-giving-nothing-to-anyone--apart-from-aids-1430428.html
     
  17. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Hakuna lolote!! Hata tupewe misaada milele bado tutabaki masikini tu. Hii misaada tokea mimi nimezaliwa kwenye katikati ya miaka ya sabini mpaka sasa bado tunapata and we have nothing to show for it!!! It's a damn shame. Watu bado wanapikia kuni, mafiga, wanachota maji kisimani, wanaishi kwenye nyumba za udongo, shule hazina madawati....wanafunzi wanakaa chini au wanakalia matofali.....yaaani balaa tupu. Haya yote niliyoyataja wala hayahitaji akili nyingi au ujuzi wa hali ya juu lakini hatuwezi hata kuyafanya. Sasa unategemea hiyo misaada tunayopata kutoka kwa wazungu na wengine itatusaidieje kama sisi wenyewe hatuwezi hata kujisaidia na mali asili tulizonazo? Hamna lolote zaidi ya blah blah tu....
     
  18. Kubwajinga

    Kubwajinga JF-Expert Member

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    Jul 14, 2008
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    Mahojiano ya John Githongo (yule jamaa wa Kenya anticorruption aliyekimbilia UK baada ya kuibua siri za corruption in Kenya) na wabongo maarufu akiwemo Jaji Warioba na Mh. Zitto. Interesting but some how shallow.

    Bonyeza hapa uangalie.

    Utamuona Salim A. Salim akitoka nyumbani kwa Warioba, sijui nao walikuwa na mikakati gani.



    Hivi kweli misaada itatuondolea umasikini au mipango bora ndio tunayoihitaji zaidi ya handouts
     
  19. mwanatanu

    mwanatanu JF-Expert Member

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    Jul 15, 2008
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    KJ.....kuna thread kama hiyo ilianzishwa siku kadhaa zilizopita bofya hapa
    http://www.jamiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=15507Kweli aliianzisha.....kama ukiona ni sawa na yako basi waombe mods waunganishe
     
  20. Kubwajinga

    Kubwajinga JF-Expert Member

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    Thanks Mwanatanu. Nimeiona. Naona haikuni-prompt nilipoipost.

    Mod please rekebisha hili kosa.
     
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