If our President has more than one wife: The question of human rights

[Augustine Moshi]

A Tale of Two Wives​

A couple of days back we had people here claiming that JK had two wives (at least). That sounded like a joke, but having more than one human being for a wife is no laughing matter!

JK is a leader. At least that is what most of us believe. What does it say about his view regarding the dignity of women if he can pick a couple of them as wives? Nothing lowers the dignity of women more than to combine several of them as your wives.

Leaders know that they are held to a higher standard than the rest. That is why some of them hide the fact that they have more than one partner when they are running for office. It is not possible to genuinely say that women have the same dignity as men and then have several of them as your wives.

Are one man and two wives three equal partners? In what way would the ladies be singly equal in dignity to the man and to each other? The dignity of each one of them is grossly violated when they take turns playing wife!

If JK has two wives then he should stop hiding one of them. He should at least have the decency to treat them with equal dignity, both in private and in public. He should take them both on his frequent international travel, and attend all functions with both. If he is embarrassed to be seen to be polygamous, then he ought not be polygamous! Above all, he should bring them both to his public rallies when he runs for re-election. The people deserve to know what kind of a man they are electing into office.

It may well be that some religions allow men to marry several wives. But it does not follow that nations approve of polygamous individuals ruling them. It offends against equality, and it is deeply embarrassing to have a polygamist as your president!

How can women activists in Tanzania close their eyes to polygamy? Polygamy reduces women into objects of pleasure. Women are not the same as men, but they are meant to be of equal dignity to men. In a situation of polygamy, to fight for the dignity of women must include fighting to end the abhorrent practice!

In this postmodern world, it is unacceptable for a nation to embrace polygamy and or polyandry. We must end it this primitive practice!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

No one is forcing those women to marry those men. They do it on their own will. If they (the women) don't have a problem with it then why the hell should you?

 

[Augustine Moshi]

I have a problem with them for not having a problem with it!

It so happens that it is a part of my society. If some parts of it are bad then I certainly have the right to have a problem with that!

In any event, why do you have a problem with my having a problem with it?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

I have a problem with them for not having a problem with it!

It so happens that it is a part of my society. If some parts of it are bad then I certainly have the right to have a problem with that!

In any event, why do you have a problem with my having a problem with it?

I'm having a problem with your having a problem because you want to impose your morals on others.

 

[Kuntakinte]

I have a problem with them for not having a problem with it!

It so happens that it is a part of my society. If some parts of it are bad then I certainly have the right to have a problem with that!

In any event, why do you have a problem with my having a problem with it?

Da Mkubwa heshima mbele
Ila hii imekaa kimama Terry sana. Samahani lakini.............

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Moderator,

Heshma mbele Mkuu!

Swala hili ni la KISIASA moja kwa moja. Si la mahusiano na mapenzi. Ni swala la HAKI ZA BINADAMU. Naomba ulirudishe kwenye nafasi yake ya SIASA.

Nyan Ngabu,

I am not imposing morals of any kind, let alone mine. I am simply making the political statement that it is against human rights for one man to have more than one woman as a wife. It is against human rights because it denigrates the rights of women.

 

[BAK]

Valerie considers herself a typical soccer mom except her husband has two other wives and a total of 22 children in the house. She is her husband's third wife and has eight children. By sharing her story, Valerie hopes to show a different side of the polygamist lifestyle. "My hope is to change some of those stereotypes, break the stereotypes that people have that it's oppressive and abusive to women and children, that we're all living in these cults and being brainwashedI don't live like that. I live in just a little suburban neighborhood and my children go to public school. I feel like we have a very normal lifestyle."

At the same time, Valerie says that a plural family is not always easy. "It can be hard when a wife goes out the door with your husband," Valerie says. "We have had jealousies and there have been those times and we can't sugarcoat it and say that, 'Oh, it's so perfect and we love it and we love everyone.' You know, we all have our hard times just like any other people."

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Thanks be to the Moderator for being sensitive to our requests. May you live forever! This forum has made a tremendous contribution to our nation so far. I have a feeling that it will change the nation gradually but surely, by bringing together the world wide Tanzanian intellectual elite into a vigorous national conversation

 

[Augustine Moshi]

May be Valerie "feels" it is OK to be one third of the wives. But it does not make it right. There are people that feel it is OK for a man to marry a man, or even for one to steal. But it does not make it right.

Polygamy is opposed to the rights of women. I am baffled that TGNP and other gender rights advocates are not doing anything to stamp it out.

The Presidency should be occupied by a national role model. A primitive polygamist just won't do!

 

[Chuma]

AM...Unazungumzia Haki za mwanamke au Haki za Mwanadamu...? Unastand kama mwanamke au Mtetezi wa Haki za Wanawake....?

Hoja zako zote hapo Hazina MASHIKO.....

 

[Sober]

"I am not imposing morals of any kind, let alone mine. I am simply making the political statement that it is against human rights for one man to have more than one woman as a wife. It is against human rights because it denigrates the rights of women."

What political statement?... based on who's human rights? the African customs of our ancestors or the so called know it all customs of the west?... Cut the brain washing comrade.... Unaweza kuanzisha thread ya "is monogamy really natural?"...kule kwenye mapenzi, halafu utajua wapo ma social scientists walioisoma vizuri hii concept na kucome up na findings ambazo najua hautazipenda. Simply wanakubaliana na maancestors wetu na watemi waliotangulia... ZIDUMU AFRICAN CUSTOMS!

Bottom line, hii sio siasa, Mods this is a distraction from the real issues. Pleeease

 

[Mkandara]

Augustine Moshi,
Mkuu samahani nakuheshimu sana ktk michango yako lakini hili mkuu umekwenda mbali sana..sielewi kama umeuliza Polygamy kwa sababu Kikwete ni Muislaam (dini) au unametaka kujua legal status ya rais kuhusiana na polygamy...
Binafsi nitakuacha na hili moja - Nachukulia maneno yako kama personal... Ni matusi makubwa Kwangu, mama yangu, baba yangu na familia yangu ambao tumezaliwa ktk ndoa ya pili..
Bila maamuzi yao nisingekuwepo hapa kijiweni kwa hiyo, shika adabu yako!
Nilikuwepo!

 

[Mtu wa Kawaida]

Sidhani kama ili ni tatizo la haki za binadamu cha msingi ni kwamba je hawa waliopo kwenye ndoa wanapatana? Kama wanapatana hakuna shida ila kama hakuna kuelewana hapo ni shida zitakuwepo.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Moderator,

Heshma mbele Mkuu!

Swala hili ni la KISIASA moja kwa moja. Si la mahusiano na mapenzi. Ni swala la HAKI ZA BINADAMU. Naomba ulirudishe kwenye nafasi yake ya SIASA.

Nyan Ngabu,

I am not imposing morals of any kind, let alone mine. I am simply making the political statement that it is against human rights for one man to have more than one woman as a wife. It is against human rights because it denigrates the rights of women.

Prof. Moshi, what if the women don't have a problem with it? What if they think it doesn't denigrate them? So are saying that if me, Nyani Ngabu the stud, the genetic jackhammer, have all these women (say Kelly01 and Kisura) swooning over me and want me to wife them, you would still have a problem with it even though they don't? Come on man, what human rights are you talking about? What are human rights according to your book?

 

[Abdulhalim]

AM...Unazungumzia Haki za mwanamke au Haki za Mwanadamu...? Unastand kama mwanamke au Mtetezi wa Haki za Wanawake....?

Hoja yako ni ipi ? Kwani mwanamke si bin'adam?

 

[Abdulhalim]

Augustine Moshi,
Mkuu samahani nakuheshimu sana ktk michango yako lakini hili mkuu umekwenda mbali sana..sielewi kama umeuliza Polygamy kwa sababu Kikwete ni Muislaam (dini) au unametaka kujua legal status ya rais kuhusiana na polygamy...
Binafsi nitakuacha na hili moja - Nachukulia maneno yako kama personal... Ni matusi makubwa Kwangu, mama yangu, baba yangu na familia yangu ambao tumezaliwa ktk ndoa ya pili..
Bila maamuzi yao nisingekuwepo hapa kijiweni kwa hiyo, shika adabu yako!
Nilikuwepo!

What the f... is this?

 

[Pascal Mayalla]

Ukweli wa mambo asili ya Bantustas ni wake wengi, damu moto. Wazungu wanaweza mke mmoja wao ni damu baridi. Wake wengi ndivyo walivyoishi mababu zetu mpaka ujio wa wazungu.

Mimi ni Msukuma, pamoja na Ukristo wetu, si babu zangu wala baba zangu waliodumu na mke mmoja. Sisi watoto ndio tuna jaribu na sijui mbele ya safari.

Kwa Wasukuma the fact is we are very active kwenye somo hili ndio maana tunasifika kwa kupenda tatizo mmoja peke yake anakuwa hatoshi!.

Mababu zetu walikuwa na nguvu za ajabu, wao waliweza mara 3 kwa siku, wiki zote 54 za mwaka!. mke mkubwa ndie alikuwa anatafuta wasaidizi vinginevyo hakuna usalama. Kiasili mwanamke wa Kisukuma original, hatakiwi kuwa na wivu.

Hayo ni mambo ya Traditional Sukuma man, swali ni jee the modern Sukuma man anayo really need of an extra woman ama tunajiendekeza tuu!.
Jee ni afadhali ya Mwislamu anayekubali uke wenza kuliko mamia kwa maelfu ya sisi wakristo wa mke mmoja na vimada kibao ama nyumba ndogo?.

Tusishangae ya uke wenza mimi niko huku India, kuna jamii za wame wenza!.

 

[Zero]

Nadhani wengi mmekimbilia kwenye criticism against Augustine Moshi. Sidhani kama mmesoma hoja yake kwa undani. Augustine has no problems with polygamy. Anachotaka ni kwamba, kama rais wetu ana wake wawili, basi atoke nao wote hadharani. The president has to be proud to be polygamous. Hii ya kuficha mmoja na kujirusha na mwingine ndio inakuwa issue ya human rights. If they are all your wives, you should treat them equally. Sasa, kubwa hapa ni kwamba, huyo anayefichwa ndani hawezi kuongea maana ni mke wa rais. Kama rais kaamua kumficha, hawezi kujitokeza maana atashughulikiwa mara moja. Hii ndio inayompa tatizo bwana Augustine. Kwamba huu ni ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu.

I would have been proud of my president kama angetoka na wake zake hadharani. Sio tatizo kuwa polygamous, lakini inakuwa tatizo pale unapomkandamiza mmoja wa wake zako. Naamini hata vitabu vitakatifu vinalaani hili.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Wandugu, naomba nijibu mapigo kama ifuatavyo:

Yako matatizo ya aina mbili. Mosi, kama asemavyo Zero, kuwa na mke mmoja hadharani na mwingine kifichoni ni unafiki kwa raia na ukiukwaji wa heshima za yule anayeonewa aibu.

Tatizo la pili ni la "tabia mbaya" kukubalika. Kama ni kweli kwamba katika familia Baba na Mama wana hadhi sawa basi ni kukosa haki kwa Baba mmoja kuwa na wake wengi. Hili ni tatizo la siku nyingi kiasi kwamba sasa wengi wanadhani sio tatizo.

Ni kinyume cha "maumbile" kwa baba mmoja kuwa na wake wawili au zaidi. Porojo za kusema Wabantu wana nguvu na hivyo wanahitaji wake wengi ni male chauvinism ya kawaida tu. Muumbaji "aliwaumba" mtu na mke, na sio mtu na wake.

Mkandara anasema kazaliwa kwenye familia ya wake wengi na kwa hivyo kuwa na wake wengi kuheshimike. Bad logic. Tuliozaliwa kwenye familia masikini inabidi sasa tukumbatie umaskini! Si vema kuheshimu makosa.

Nyani Ngabu anasema walio kwenye ndoa ya wake wengi wanapatana na kwa hivyo wakina mama hao hawanyimwi haki zao za kibinadamu. Wivu lazima utakwepo. Hata hivyo, kuna tatizo la msingi hapa. As Malcom X said "The House Negro loves his master....." Sasa hakunyimwa haki huyo House Negro?

Persistence does not convert an evil into a good. Polygamy might have survived many years in primitive communities. It might even have looked like a normal tradition. That does not absolve it from being evil. Hata ukeketaji sehemu nyingi ni tradition lakini bado ni ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu.

Ni aibu kwa taifa kuwa na Rais mwenye wake wawili. Kama si aibu kwa nini Rais afiche mke wake wa pili?

Ni kujidhalilisha kwa wanawake wawili kuchangia mume mmoja. Tushirikiane kupiga vita tabia ya kuwadhalilisha wanawake kwa njia hii. Ukombozi wa wanawake ni ukombozi wa binadamu.

 

[Interested Observer]

Augustine Moshi,
Mkuu samahani nakuheshimu sana ktk michango yako lakini hili mkuu umekwenda mbali sana..sielewi kama umeuliza Polygamy kwa sababu Kikwete ni Muislaam (dini) au unametaka kujua legal status ya rais kuhusiana na polygamy...
Binafsi nitakuacha na hili moja - Nachukulia maneno yako kama personal... Ni matusi makubwa Kwangu, mama yangu, baba yangu na familia yangu ambao tumezaliwa ktk ndoa ya pili..
Bila maamuzi yao nisingekuwepo hapa kijiweni kwa hiyo, shika adabu yako!
Nilikuwepo!

Even you! Believe, polygamy is an old way of living, it is primitive and please mention only one nation outside Africa or those poor middle eastern countries; no country in the world embraces polygamy, we must change!