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Ibara ya 30:5

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Sheria (The Law Forum)' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Ya Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano Inasema hivi:

    Wazo:

    - Je, Mahakama ikisema sheria fulani ni Batili na kinyume cha Katiba sheria hiyo inatenguka mara moja na haina nguvu?

    - Je, Neno "badala" linapotumika hapo juu ni sawa au neno "baada" ndilo lingetumika.

    - Kama Mahakama inasema sheria fulani ni kinyume na Katiba kwa misingi gani sheria hiyo inaendelea kuwa halali?
     
  2. Mag3

    Mag3 JF Gold Member

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    Kwa ustaarabu wa dunia ni kuwa mahakama ikitamka sheria fulani ni batili na ni kinyume cha katiba, kimsingi sheria hiyo haitakiwi kuendelea kuwa ni halali kwa sababu katiba ndiyo sheria mama. Sheria yoyote inayopigana na katiba na ikatafsiriwa hivyo na mahakama, haina uhalali tena.

    Hata hivyo serikali yetu imelazimisha uwezekano huu kutokana na maamuzi ya bunge ambalo ndilo lenye jukumu la kutunga sheria. Hii imewezekana kirahisi kwa sababu bunge lenyewe miaka yote imekuwa kama "rubber stamp" ya mapendekezo ya serikali. Kuna mifano kadhaa ambapo bunge limeitishwa haraka haraka kuzima maamuzi ya mahakama.

    Jambo la pili ni kuwa kwa kukosa bunge la katiba, bunge letu limejichukulia haya madaraka kwa baraka za serikali. Na hii nayo imewezekana kwa sababu maamuzi mazito ya bunge yanatolewa na kundi ndani ya bunge linalojulikana kama kamati ya wabunge wa CCM likiongozwa na mwenyekiti wa CCM ambaye ndiye Raisi wa nchi.

    Yote haya yatarekebishwa tu kwa kuandika katiba mpya inayohakikisha hii mihimili mikuu mitatu inatenganiswa - serkali, bunge na mahakama. Kama nitakuwa nimepotea msijali sana - mimi ni injinia siyo mwanasheria.
     
  3. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Ni mtazamo wangu.
     
  4. Pdidy

    Pdidy JF-Expert Member

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    Bussiness Law -----2

    I Like Dat!!!!!!vijana Wa Udsm Na Open Shule Ya Bure Hii Jf
    Mkono Wako Tu Uliza Ujibiwe
    Frm
    Klhnews.com
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Hivi kama Katiba ingesema kuwa Mahakama ikitangaza kuwa sheria fulani ni kinyume na Katiba kama ilivyofanya kwenye kesi ya wagombea huru au kesi nyingine, kwanini sheria ileya uchaguzi inaendelea kutumika?

    Ninachosema ni kuwa ibara hii ndiyo ibara hatari sana ya mabadiliko ya kisheria nchini kwa sababu inakupa kwa upande mmoja na kwa upande mwingine inanyima.

    Nchi nyingine (hasa US) kipengele cha sheria au sheria nzima ikitangazwa kuwa ni unconstitutional sheria nzima inasitishwa hadi ifanyiwe mabadiliko.
     
  6. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Mwkjj,
    I have to admit kwamba sijakuelewa kabisa ndugu yangu. Naomba unieleweshe zaidi kwa hayo niliyopigia mstari.

    Kwa upande wa US, siwezi sema neno sababu sijui wao muongozo wao wa sheria unaenda vipi, japo ningeshukuru pia kama ungenipa walau mfano mmoja ambapo sheria ilitanganzwa kuwa unconstitutional, na sheria nzima ikasitishwa. Na what do you mean by "inasitishwa hadi ifanyiwe mabadiliko"? Na how long inakichukua chombo husika kurekebisha hiyo sheria iliyositishwa? Na wakati hiyo sheria iliyositishwa haijafanyiwa mabadiliko (iko kwenye process may be), and something happened ambacho ilitakiwa kiamuliwe na hiyo sheria iliyositishwa, na marekebisho bado kutolewa, how do they deal with the issue raised? Na kama wataihold issue raised during msitisho wa sheria iliyoonekana ni unconstitution, then mabadiliko yakafanyika later (baada ya issue kuwa imetokea) how do they judge this issue, is it bay the old sheria iliyositishwa or the new one (iliyobadilishwa) ili hali issue happened kabla hii sheria mpya (mabadiliko) kuundwa?

    Thanks.

    Lizy
     
  7. Mpaka Kieleweke

    Mpaka Kieleweke JF-Expert Member

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    Hiki ndio kinachoitwa claw back laws.......baada ya mahakama kutaka pawepo na mgombea huru lilikuwa ni jukumu la bunge kutunga sheria ili iruhusu mgombea huru, sasa kutokana na udhaifu wa taasisi zetu kama vile mahakama na bunge dhidi ya executive unakuta hakuna linalofanyika na wala hakuna hatua zinachukuliwa .....kifupi ni kuwa executive haiheshimu Judiciary na hata parliament.
     
  8. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Lizy,

    Tofauti iliyopo iko hivi: Mahakama ya Marekani ikitangaza kuwa sheria au kipengele fulani cha sheria ni kinyume cha Katiba, sheria au kipengele hicho hakitumiki, yaani kinapoteza nguvu yake mara moja. Mfano mzuri ni sheria ya Patriot ambayo ndani yake kulikuwa na vipengele vingi tu ambavyo viliulizwa mahakamani kuona kama vinakubaliana na Katiba. Miaka miacha iliyopita, mahakama iliona baadhi vya vipengele vyake ni kinyume na Katiba. Tangu pale inapotangazwa rasmi vipengele hivyo vinapoteza nguvu yake.

    Matokeo ya mtindo huo ni kuwa kwenye kesi ya Brown Vs School Board ambayo ilifungua shule za umma kwa watu wa rangi zote hapa Marekani, msingi wake ni kuwa Mahakama Kuu ya Marekani iliona sheria na hukumu iliyohalalisha kutengwa kinasaba kwa wanafunzi kulivunja vipengele vya Katiba ya Marekani na hivyo havina nguvu. Mahakama ilipotangaza hivyo, hakukuwa na jinsi yoyote ya wao (Board of education) kuendelea na sheria ya zamani, au kuifuata kwanza.. as a matter of fact mara tu walipotangaza kuwa "ni kinyume na Katiba" basi sheria ile au kipengele kile kilipoteza nguvu yake.

    Sasa kwenye katiba yetu, siyo hivyo (kwenye hicho kipengele). Yaani, mahakama yetu inaweza kutangaza sheria au kipengele fulani cha Katiba na wakatoa muda ibadilishwe lakini kutokana na "sheria hiyo au hatua inayohusika itaendelea kuhesabiwa kuwa ni
    halali hadi ama marekebisho yatakapofanywa au muda
    uliowekwa na Mahakama Kuu utakapokwisha"

    Hii ina maana gani? kama kungekuwa na sheria ya utengano kama ya Marekani ambapo wanafunzi weusi na weupe hawaruhusiwi kusoma shule moja na baadaye mahakama ikaona kuwa sheria hiyo ni kinyume na Katiba kwa kuzingatia vipengele vya "usawa" (equal protection clauses), basi tungetarajia kuwa mara baada ya kutangazwa hivyo sheria ya kutenga wanafunzi isingetumika siku inayofuata.

    Sivyo ilivyo, kwa Tanzania sheria hiyo ingeendelea kutumika hadi Bunge liamua kuibadili au muda uliotolewa upite. Na kama haikutolewa muda maalum na Bunge halijaamua kufanya mabadiliko kimsingi sheria ile itaendelea na itakuwa halali na hivyo kufanya maamuzi ya mahakama kuwa ni ya bure.
     
  9. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Mpaka kieleweke,

    Kwa maelezo hapo juu, ni kwamba Tanzania hakuna sheria inayoruhusu mgombe huru, na kwamba mahakama ikaomba sheria hiyo itungwe, si ndiyo ama nimekuelewa vibaya? Au tuna sheria ya kuzuia mgombea huru? Kama ipo, nakiri sifahamu japo ningefurahi kufahamishwa?

    Samahani kwa maswali haya coz najaribu kulinganisha na suala la mkjj kuona ni wapi sheria ya mgombea huru ilikosewa.

    Natanguliza shukrani.
     
  10. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Liz.. hii ni sehemu ya uamuzi wa Mahakama 2006 kuhusu wagombea binafsi katika kesi ya Mtikila Vs. Mwanasheria Mkuu

    Ukisoma hukumu hiyo unaweza kujiuliza kwanini miaka miwili baadaye hakuna wagombea huru? Jibu Ibara 30:5
     
  11. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Mwkjj, naona labda ninachanganya mambo hapa nitaomba unisaidie. Unaweza kunipa mfano walau mmoja kwa Tanzania ambapo mahakama ilitoa maamuzi ya kubadili sheria ambayo ilionekana ni batili na haikubadilishwa? Ninaongelea kupendekeza kubadili sheria, na syo kuunda sheria mpya>

    Lizy
     
  12. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Mkjj, naona post ziliingiliana, I mean niliuliza sikujua umejibu huku.

    Kwani kuna wagombea huru walijitokeza baada ya hapo na wakazuliwa?

    I am sorry siasa nipo ZERO, so ukiona najikanyaga sana nipeleke taratibu.

    Lizy,
     
  13. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa ninavyoelewa mimi, and that is just the basics, ni kwamba mahakama ndiyo ina wajibu na uwezo wa ku interpret laws, na moja kati ya kazi hizo ni ku ascertain the constitutionality of the said laws.

    The constitution being the primary law of the land, if the judiciary deems a certain law unconstitutional that law ceases to be a law.

    It is up to the legislative body to provide a replacement law which will be subject to the interpretations and validations of the judiciary.

    Tatizo ni kwamba we have a somewhat credible judiciary, but a sham legislative body.

    Katika "Profiles in Courage" Jack Kennedy anasema (although some say that Pulitzer clinching opus was penned by an aide, but that's a whole new thread) anasema yafuatayo kuhusu his first term in the US ongress, which seems to be the same issue faced by our Bunge and a big part of the problem.

    Now we may not be as elaborate as the Americans -we do not even a campaign finance law and an ethics bill worth its name- but what Jack Kennedy pointed out above is a big part of the problem, especially in CCM.

    Wabunge, hususan wa CCM, wanakuwa funded na chama (that's where huu wizi wa BOT na EPA unapokuja) then wanawekwa pale kuwa puppets wa CCM.Sasa huwezi kutegemea wabunge hawa waweze kuleta sheria za maana kwa wananchi, especially kama sheria hizo zinatishia interests za CCM, kama sheria ya wagombea binafsi.
     
  14. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Pundit, ideally that is what is supposed to be; Our constitution however Article 30:5 inasema hata kama mahakama inasema sheria au kipengele chake kuwa ni kinyume cha Katiba, sheria hiyo na kipengele hicho kinaendelea kuwa na nguvu hadi kitakapobadilishwa au muda ulioanishwa upite. Hivyo in Tanzania, when the Court says something is unconstitutional it doesn't mean that thing is illegal.. it'll continue to be legal until it has been scraped au muda unapita.

    Lizy, ilijaribiwa huko Tunduru na tume ya uchaguzi ilikataa kwa sababu sheria haijabadilishwa licha ya kukiri kuwa mahakama imeamua vinginevyo lakini wao (tume) wanafuata sheria na walinukuu hiyo Ibara.
     
  15. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Thanks Mwkjj,
    As I requested before, kwenye Siasa nipeleke taratibu, vinginevyo utaniacha njiani.

    Ref: “We are of the settled view that the amendments to Articles 21(1) Article 39(1)c) and Article 67(1)(b) introduced by Act No. 34 of 1994 or popularly known as the 11th Amendment are unnecessary and unreasonable restrictions to the fundamental right of the citizens of Tanzania to run for the relevant elective posts either as party members or as private candidates”.

    Ili twende pamoja, ningeomba kuna unazo hizo Origina Articles 21(1), 39(1)(c) na 67(1)(b), uziweke tuone zilikuwa zinasemaje, then weka na hiyo mpya/amended one, Act No. 34 of 1994, tuone nayo inasemaje?
    Na je, ni kwa nini waliamua kubadilisha hizo original Articles above to Act No 34 of 1994? Nani aliamua na ilichukua muda gani kabla ya zile Original Articles kucease? Ni kipengele kipi cha sheria (if different from Ibara 30:5), kilitumika kubadilisha hizo original Articles?

    Thanks,

    Lizy
     
  16. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Lizy... hapa itakuwa kazi kidogo.. itabidi ufanye sehemu ya homework hii wewe mwenyewe. Kwa kifupi ni kuwa kulifanyika mabadiliko ya Katiba ambayo yaliingiza kipengele kinachotaka wagombea wa nafasi za uongozi kuwa wanatoka vyama vya kisiasa. Kabla ya hapo mgombea hakulazimishwa kuwa mwanachama wa chama cha kisiasa. Vipengele hivyo vya Katiba unaweza kuvisoma kwenye Katiba nenda http://www.tanzania.go.tz na utaiona Katiba na uvifuatilie.

    Mabadiliko hayo ya vipengele vya Katiba yakapingana na kile kinachoitwa Haki za Msingi (Bill of Rights) ambapo mtu anayo haki ya kuchagua na kuchaguliwa akitimiza masharti fulani. Itafute hukumu nzima (google Mtikila Vs. Attorney General, Private Candidate"..
     
  17. L

    LazaroSMtindi Senior Member

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    IBARA YA 30(5)
    Nimefuatilia vizuri mjadala baina ya M'Kijiji, Pundit na Lizzy kuhusu Ibara ya 30(5) ya Katiba ya Tanzania. Kwanza, Ibara ya 30(5) si kipengele chenye masharti ya jumla, bali ni kipengele maalumu kinachosema pale ambapo "Mahakama Kuu inaridhika kwamba sheria ... kwa kiwango inachopingana na Katiba ni batili ... basi Mahakama Kuu ikiona kuwa yafaa au hali au maslahi ya jamii yahitaji hivyo, badala ya kutamka kuwa sheria au hatua hiyo ni batili, itakuwa na uwezo wa kuamua kutoa fursa kwa ajili ya Serikali au Mamlaka nyingine yoyote inayohusika kurekebisha hitilafu iliyopo katika sheria inayotuhumiwa au hatua inayohusika katika muda na kwa jinsi itakavyotajwa na Makahakama Kuu, na sheria hiyo au hatua hiyo inayohusika itaendelea kuhesabiwa kuwa ni halali hadi ama marekebisho yatakapofanywa au muda uliowekwa na Mahakama Kuu utakapokwisha, mradi muda mfupi zaidi ndio uzingatiwe". Hivyo basi, kipengele hicho cha Katiba kinaongelea pale ambapo Mahakama Kuu itachukua option ya "kuishauri" Serikali irekebishe sheria au hatua inayolalamikiwa. Otherwise, Mahakama Kuu inapochukua the other option ya kutangaza moja kwa moja kuwa sheria au hatua fulani ni unconstitutional, sheria au hatua hiyo inakuwa unconstitutional mara moja!
    Katika suala tunaloliongelea la independent candidates, tuna mazingira tofauti kidogo. Position ni kwamba kuzuia independent candidates nchini Tanzania kwa sasa si halali, ni unconstitutional! Tatizo ni kuwa haki ya independent candidates kushiriki kwenye chaguzi kunahitaji mabadiliko ya sheria ya uchaguzi yatakayozingatia uwepo wa hao wababe wapya. Vilevile, huwezi kulilaumu Bunge pale ambapo tayari one of the parties katika kesi hiyo, Serikali, wame-file nia ya kupinga uamuzi huo wa Mahakama kwa njia ya rufaa. Muda wa rufaa ukiisha, hapo tutaanza kulishinikiza Bunge kubadili sheria ya uchaguzi.
    Mwisho, Pundit punguza kidpogo ku-overglorify American system. Haiko perfect kama unavyoona wewe! Taifa kongwe kama hilo bado linanuka kwa ubaguzi wa ki-Ku Klux Klan, unadhani hiyo ni credit?
    Lazaros
     
  18. L

    LazaroSMtindi Senior Member

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    IBARA YA 30(5)
    Nimefuatilia vizuri mjadala baina ya M'Kijiji, Pundit na Lizzy kuhusu Ibara ya 30(5) ya Katiba ya Tanzania. Kwanza, Ibara ya 30(5) si kipengele chenye masharti ya jumla, bali ni kipengele maalumu kinachosema pale ambapo "Mahakama Kuu inaridhika kwamba sheria ... kwa kiwango inachopingana na Katiba ni batili ... basi Mahakama Kuu ikiona kuwa yafaa au hali au maslahi ya jamii yahitaji hivyo, badala ya kutamka kuwa sheria au hatua hiyo ni batili, itakuwa na uwezo wa kuamua kutoa fursa kwa ajili ya Serikali au Mamlaka nyingine yoyote inayohusika kurekebisha hitilafu iliyopo katika sheria inayotuhumiwa au hatua inayohusika katika muda na kwa jinsi itakavyotajwa na Makahakama Kuu, na sheria hiyo au hatua hiyo inayohusika itaendelea kuhesabiwa kuwa ni halali hadi ama marekebisho yatakapofanywa au muda uliowekwa na Mahakama Kuu utakapokwisha, mradi muda mfupi zaidi ndio uzingatiwe". Hivyo basi, kipengele hicho cha Katiba kinaongelea pale ambapo Mahakama Kuu itachukua option ya "kuishauri" Serikali irekebishe sheria au hatua inayolalamikiwa. Otherwise, Mahakama Kuu inapochukua the other option ya kutangaza moja kwa moja kuwa sheria au hatua fulani ni unconstitutional, sheria au hatua hiyo inakuwa unconstitutional mara moja!
    Katika suala tunaloliongelea la independent candidates, tuna mazingira tofauti kidogo. Position ni kwamba kuzuia independent candidates nchini Tanzania kwa sasa si halali, ni unconstitutional! Tatizo ni kuwa haki ya independent candidates kushiriki kwenye chaguzi kunahitaji mabadiliko ya sheria ya uchaguzi yatakayozingatia uwepo wa hao wababe wapya. Vilevile, huwezi kulilaumu Bunge pale ambapo tayari one of the parties katika kesi hiyo, Serikali, wame-file nia ya kupinga uamuzi huo wa Mahakama kwa njia ya rufaa. Muda wa rufaa ukiisha, hapo tutaanza kulishinikiza Bunge kubadili sheria ya uchaguzi.
    Mwisho, Pundit punguza kidpogo ku-overglorify American system. Haiko perfect kama unavyoona wewe! Taifa kongwe kama hilo bado linanuka kwa ubaguzi wa ki-Ku Klux Klan, unadhani hiyo ni credit?
    Lazaros
     
  19. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Lazaro kwenye hiyo Ibara ya Katiba ni wapi wametumia neno "kushauri" serikali. Mahakama haina kazi ya kushauri.
     
  20. L

    Lizy JF-Expert Member

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    Lazaros,

    Asante sana.

    Mwkjj, may be we should wait for a while tuone Rufaa inaenda vipi bro, na tusijudge kwa kuangalia upande mmoja wa shilingi. The fact kwamba Principle Judge katika kesi ya Mtikila Vs Attorney kupendekeza kwamba the Act is Unconstitution, haimpi nafasi ya kuwa mwamuzi wa mwisho katika suala hili, ni mahakama ya Rufaa peke yake yenye maamuzi ambapo ikiona sheria sheria ni sahihi itaimaintain na ikiona si sahihi basi itasitishwa mara moja. So far, bado nakubaliana na kipengele "Itaendelea kuwa sheria mpaka hapo mabadiliko yatakapotokea au huo muda uliotolewa kubadili kupita"

    Fair enough.

    Lizy