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I refuse to be a servant of the West

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by BAK, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2008
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    I refuse to be a servant of the West

    By SHYAKA KANUMA
    THE EAST AFRICAN

    Posted Saturday, December 20 2008 at 09:59

    If the Rwandan president had his way, African countries would be doing much more to forge larger political and economic regional blocs that speak with one voice than is the case currently.

    He sees this as the only way to reduce our dependence on aid from rich countries and and change our situation from being perpetual supplicants to becoming respected partners in world affairs.

    It is hard for people who are constantly going to Western capitals to beg for aid to shake off the indignities heaped on them daily, President Paul Kagame told me in an interview at Village Urugwiro, the State House in Kigali.

    “But if we have big regional blocs, then you will have a situation where more businesses from rich countries come looking for opportunities — and more direct investment means less reason to go looking for foreign aid,” he added.

    “This is why, for instance, we have to do more to strengthen our East African Community — it would be hard for anyone, either from the West or elsewhere to ignore this market and its opportunities,” he said.

    Kagame is clearly irked that, decades after independence, our relationship with the West continues to be a master/servant one.

    The president said, “These rich countries still exercise control over us; all these human rights and media rights organisations and so on, their sole objective is to impose Western ideals and values on everyone; anyone who refuses to go along is blacklisted.

    “If you reject even some of their suggestions or recommendations, you pay for it. It doesn’t matter either whether the suggestions aren’t practical for us or don’t fit our situation.

    “All this strengthens the case for closer co-operation between our countries.”

    One issue the president was obviously alluding to is the quarrel Rwanda currently is embroiled in with two European countries — France and Germany.

    Last month, German police arrested President Kagame’s chief of protocol, Rose Kabuye, in Frankfurt on the strength of a warrant issued by a French judge, Jean Louis Bruguiere.

    The story has been making headlines as it emerges that Judge Bruguiere’s accusations against Kabuye (and the Rwandan president and eight other Rwanda government officials) that they planned the assassination of former president Juvenal Habyarimana are not backed by credible evidence.

    A man the French judge described as his principle witness — one Abdul Ruzibiza — has come forward to recant the allegations he made about Kagame ordering the assassination.

    “You see, this kind of situation where Europeans give themselves the powers to arrest us and lock us up can only be sustained as long as this master/servant relationship is what defines our dealings with them,” says Kagame. “Today it is us. Tomorrow it will be another African elsewhere.”

    The Rwandan president agrees that indeed some Africans commit crimes against humanity, but then asks, “Is it only the African involved in criminal activity?”

    He adds, “We have to fight this tendency for Europeans to always cast themselves in the role of judge and the African always as the guilty party. We have to fight it on all fronts.”

    Today any judge in France or Spain or elsewhere in Europe can indict anyone, using the doctrine of universal jurisdiction — whereby states may claim criminal jurisdiction over people whose alleged crimes were committed outside the territory of the prosecuting state.

    This is regardless of the nationality of the alleged perpetrator. So far, however, Africans appear to have borne the brunt of the principle.

    President Kagame also has strong views about how the Western press has depicted the conflict in the neighbouring Democratic Republic of Congo.

    “Rwanda is being accused of assisting Laurent Nkunda (leader of the CNDP rebel group); now they are saying, Nkunda is a Tutsi and so Kagame must be helping him, as if that is the entire logic of it!”

    Of all the subjects that strain Kagame’s capacity to keep his emotions in check, without a doubt tops the list.

    The president will talk vehemently about it and his voice will rise as he discusses the reasons, the vicissitudes and the historical factors that cause so much conflict in the country.

    “Does it make Nkunda any less a Congolese because he is a Tutsi?” Kagame asks. “And in what way does it become our responsibility if the Congolese government cannot protect its people and you have a situation where groups who committed genocide in Rwanda are busy committing atrocities over there, which makes Nkunda and others like him take up arms to defend themselves? In what way does that make Nkunda our responsibility?”

    The fact that Rwandan Tutsis suffered genocide makes it look logical that Kigali indeed backs Nkunda and his fellow Congolese Tutsis.

    Nkunda and his forces assert daily that their people victims of massacres and other human-rights abuses at the hands of the FDLR — the umbrella group of Interahamwe Hutu extremist militias and the former Rwanda armed forces (FAR) who fled to Congo after murdering up to a million people in 1994.

    Congolese Tutsi refugees who have fled their country and now live in refugee camps in Rwanda say they have been targeted by Hutu extremists for no offence other than that they are Tutsis.

    But Kigali repeatedly denies being in any way involved in the current spate of conflicts in the Congo, maintaining that Nkunda is an internal Congolese problem that Congo should be making a better effort to resolve.

    “By the way, it always amazes me,” said Kagame, “when all these international groups accuse us of causing trouble in the Congo, but never come up with a single analysis of what happens when you have a government that isn’t up to the task of ensuring law and order, and personal safety for its people.”

    “You have all these people [local and international diplomats and statesmen and women] coming here and telling me to rein in Nkunda, as if I can do any such thing! Now, if I may ask, in that case who will rein in Kabila, since the problem is really one to do with his government? I have been waiting for someone to see issues that way, but in vain.”

    President Kagame is well-known for exercising close control of his government. Many describe his style of governance as authoritarian in nature. Yet others see a close resemblance to the Chinese model where you have a strong central state that at the same time grants citizens many freedoms.

    Likewise, the government of Kagame has little time for pluralist politics. The opposition in Rwanda can barely be recognised as such despite, having representatives in parliament who every now and then come down hard on poorly performing government appointees.

    But mostly the opposition works hand in hand with President Kagame’s ruling Rwandan Patriotic Front party on most policy issues and governance decisions.

    “We will devise the best means to govern ourselves; I am not a believer in this notion propagated for years that only ideas developed elsewhere work,” he says.

    “All these people in Europe who preach their brand of democracy to the world, you will realise none of their systems are identical,” he adds.

    Kagame uses the metaphor of an item of clothing to illustrate his point. It is as if the Europeans and Americans have designed one suit for all Africans, regardless of whether different people have different heights, sizes and shapes, and expect that one suit to fit us all. Yet for themselves, they wear suits tailored to their different needs.

    Kagame argues that you cannot expect to build a country by giving poor people such as Rwandans every imaginable freedom straight away. In no time at all they will be abusing all these freedoms, he remarks.

    “Even the Americans, if you look at their history when they were starting out, the ordinary people — the majority of whom could not read or write or did not own property — were not allowed to vote.

    “What they were doing was strengthening the centre first, making it abuse proof, while at the same time the ordinary people’s lives were being improved. Only then could you have responsible pluralist democracy. It really beats me why anyone would expect the majority of our African people to take a path different from this,” he says.

    Rwanda’s history since independence from Belgian colonialism in the early 1960s amply buttresses Kagame’s argument.

    Politics took on a tribal us-against-them identity whereby most poor, illiterate citizens were led by demagogic politicians to internalise the thinking that to gain political power is a zero sum game in the course which all members of the other ethnic group have to be massacred.
     
  2. Yunic

    Yunic Senior Member

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    Dec 22, 2008
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    This is clearly a lot of Blah Blah from kagame. What he really wants here is the East African Union to go ahead (and to include TZ of course). kagame and his government is supporting Nkunda. This is what happens when you invite someone to your home, and after a while they think they own your house! This should be a sign to us Tanzanians as to what to expect if and when we get into this disastrous union with Rwanda, kenya and the others.
     
  3. Yunic

    Yunic Senior Member

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    Dec 23, 2008
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    Hey nut-case! Although we don't know each other, you clearly seem to have a problem with me...is it because I am a woman? Well, I suggest you get back to the village where you crawled from.

    Jamii forum is a forum for all, and everymember has a right to their opinion. This is not a dictatorship, this is a democracy and freedom of speech! If you don't like what I post here then you should not read my posts. This is the 21st Century, a woman has rights too, even in Tanzania! So a-hole, get lost!

    And....I am done with your idiotic, ignorant and obviously uneducated, "me-man...you-woman" mentality. Hovyoo!
     
  4. Z

    Zungu Pule JF-Expert Member

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    Yunic, You are very right. The UN report is clear on this. Kagame is backing Nkunda and they promised to march to Kinshasa to oust Kabila (pretty much the same way as Laurent Kabila did). They can do it. To me, Kagame is far worse than any other African leader. He is really smart in advancing his wrongdoing.
     
  5. Z

    Zungu Pule JF-Expert Member

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    Koba, You must be tutsi. Mental slavery and nepotism are your main problems. You cannot think at all! I wonder if you have ever been to school. Have you? Instead of killing innocent people, Laurent Nkunda could have done a very good job by fighting to get "rid off" people like you; for the benefit of Africa. You know what, some people deserve to die. Don't you?
     
  6. T

    Tikerra JF-Expert Member

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    Yes Babu Ataka Kusema you seem to be a real strong man who does not want to be a servant of the west,but friend who knows, may be you are without yourself knowing.You see by the fact that you are giving us information of the outcome of what they have planned, you are their mouth piece without yourself knowing,pole sana lakini huo ndio ukweli.Nakupa changa moto,"you have talked about the East African Community,and of course the much broader African and later the lesser talked one 'world country.'Who is behind these integrations and for what purposes.Surely ideas to form these integrations are not coming from us! There is struggle for WORLD power here.And those who are struggling to get hold of world power are the same people who are using Nkunda and Kagame for their personal gains.Remember at the lower level they are also using you to give us information.This is the truth, whether you like it or not.
     
  7. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    .....u must have a **** job you ***** maana una hasira sana,and all you know about Kagame is just BS,bahati mbaya **** kama wewe ndio mmejaa kwenye serikali za Africa maana matatizo kila siku...FYI im not hutu/tutsi lakini Kagame is one of the best leaders na tunahitaji viongozi kama wale Africa ili tuendelee....na ujue i'm highly educated and smarter than you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2008
  8. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    ...acha kujiaibisha wewe,huu uwongo wa kitoto kawaambie watoto wa chekechea au lile *** hapo juu zungu pule.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2008
  9. a

    atirgen New Member

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    @babu ataka kusema--thanks for posting this article.

    this thread had such potential to generate discussion and debate, but it's already degenerated into a barrage of insults. i joined this hoping to be able to interact with fellow east africans on an intellectual level, and knowing that discussions are bound to get heated a little personal...but it's sad that when we disagree, we immediately resort to utter hatred and old school tribalism. it's no wonder that the rest of the world has little confidence in our potential. obviously the majority of contributors have no confidence in the prospect of an EA union that includes Rwanda, but it is unclear as to why. i mean, other than throwing around useless terms, resorting to ugly name-calling and hatred of a people for no apparent reason...there must be some economic/political/social reasons people are against this. but you cannot tell that by reading any of the above. does anyone have any concrete opinion on this or is this just another sounding board for baseless rhetoric and propaganda? just wondering.
     
  10. T

    Tikerra JF-Expert Member

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    Koba look behind the curtains.You seem to be lagging behind kifikra!Usidhani kila wanacho kuambia ni sahihi,"use your mind to carry out a proper diagnosis of issues".95% of what you here and see is fake!Amka.
     
  11. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Smart & educated ? Bua- ha ha ha..!! My ribs are aching..

    These are just empty, blatant claims.. Is this how you show your great educative smartness?

    Wacha watu wachangie ..usijifanye ndo SI ya mawazo kwani hujadhihirisha huo uwezo hata chembe..

    Get a life..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2008
  12. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    I wish we had five African leaders of this calibre. Tungesonga mbele. Unfortunately we have the Mugabe`s Kikwete`s, Mubaraka`s etc...ni aibu!

    God bless Kagame and I hope the rest of these African leaders will see sense in what you do! Actions speak louder than words. And Kagame you have proved this. Anyone who visit Rwanda can complement you for your visionary leadership.

    Acha wanaokulaumu kuhusu Nkunda..its just these morons "the so called international community" who always see Africa as a dead continent which cant govern itself. Nkunda is Congolese problem, now if Congo cant solve it, who should? Wengine bila hata aibu wana-cite eti UN? When was UN..when people were dying? Where is UN in Darfur? where is UN in Zimbabwe? Where is UN in Somalia? with its much worded crap of responsibility to protect and humanitarian intervention? Ohh..yeah watakuja kutupa statistics..za wangapi walikufa...

    Jamani..Africa should work up...tutaendelea na hii relationship ya master/servant mpaka lini?

    Safi sana Kagame..Mungu akutangulie..
     
  13. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Masanja,

    Huyu jamaa hata kama ni kiongozi bora kiasi gani..au ana mawazo mazuri kiasi gani, haizuii sheria kuchukua mkondo wake..

    Ukisoma kwa makini article utagundua zaidi ya 60% imejikita kwenye chuki ya Kagame kufuatia dispute aliyopo baina RFP na France na Germany, ambayo Kagame anataka kuitranslate na kui-hijack hoja nzima ili isomeke kuwa ni suala la Utumwa na Mtwana..

    Kama alihusika na mauaji, the guy should face the scrutiny and related music.. Mbona al Bashir ameshtakiwa The Hague..
     
  14. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu you are probably right. But THE QUESTION IS: WHOSE JUSTICE ARE WE TALKING HERE? Does it mean kwamba ukikosana na big powers basi wewe inabidi uwe adui wa dunia nzima?

    Yes Genocide in Rwanda happened. Hapa hawa international community hata wafanye vipi..wako fully responsible. France hata kama akifanya nini..yuko responsible na Genocide ya Rwanda, ndo alifund Interahamwe na mpaka leo..ndo analeta matatizo mengi Africa..kuanzia Chad, Congo..etc...

    Hivi Kagame asingeingia Kigali..wafaransa walitaka Watutsi wote wafutike duniani? And ofcourse they succeeded maana a million people isnt a small number.

    Kagame has his own flaws I agree. LAKINI hii ya kutaka kumsulubu kwa vile kampinga huyu Mfaransa ambaye sifa yake kubwa kwenye bara letu la Africa ni kuleta vita na kuwahudumia madikteta..siwezi kulissuport.

    Bashir na Kagame ni maswala mawili tofauti! Bashiri yuko madarakani and is killing his own people. He is just am moron..anayeamini kwamba kila mtu inabidi awe Muislamu....

    By the way, ndo unafiki wa wazungu...kwa nini wawe tayari kumpeleka Bashir The HAGUE KUFACE MASHTAKA..LAKINI WASIWE TAYARI KUPELEKA ASKARI WA KULINDA AMANI KUZUIA HAYO MAUAJI? Unafikiria kumpeleka Bashir The Hague itamsaidia vipi mwananchi wa DARFUR ANAYETESEKA..ALIYEPOTEZA NDUGU NA FAMILIA YAKE?

    I think..ukisoma hiyo Article ya Kagame..hata kama humpendi..ni vema tukaangalia mambo objectively bila kuweka personal chuki zetu.

    And much as I dont like some of the actions being done by Kagame..lakini Iam brave enough to know that..he is doing what is going to make the normal life of his people..better.

    Jamani hivi waafrika tutapata akili lini? Hiyo The Hague..kwa nini iwe special for Africans? Definetely Iam an ardent supporter of ICC. But wazungu should also own up their actions. WANATAKA WOTE TUWE BEGGARS TUU..MPAKA LINI? No way...
     
  15. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Masanja,

    Nakubaliana na wewe kuwa Magharibi wamekuwa na jinsi yao ya kuona mambo yetu na kutoa masuluhisho anuai ktk mambo mbalimbali ambayo sisi Waafrika yanaweza kuwa dawa isoyofaa au dawa chungu kama shubiri kwa baadhi yetu, mathalan Kagame ktk kadhia hii.

    Kwa mtazamo wangu, suala la Genocide na matatizo mengine barani humu watu wa kwanza kulaumiwa ni sisi wenyewe. Tungekuwa tumejipanga vizuri toka mwanzo haya yote yasingejitokeza. Lakini iwapo kuna jitihada kutoka nje za kusaidia kuleta suluhisho, hizo ni za kupongezwa na si za kubezwa. Najua Kagame angependa atukuzwe na kuimbwa kwa mazuri tu, lakini sielewi kwa nini kiongozi 'mwadilifu' kama yeye anakuwa mkali kwa scrutiny za kimahakama..Nadhani ndani ya nafsi yake anajua anakaribia kushikwa pabaya ndo maana anaanza ku-play victim mapema.

    Jamaa naona hata Kifaransa si tena lugha pekee rasmi nchini Rwanda kwa sababu ya chuki yake kwa Wafaransa.

    Kupelekwa kwa hawa wanywa damu za watu kortini si jambo lisilo na faida kama ulivyosema. Linaweza lisiwe na faida ya moja kwa moja, lakini hilo ni onyo kwa kiongozi yeyote au mtu yeyote anayedhani hatamulikwa kwa maovu yake dhidi ya bin'adamu mwingine.
     
  16. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Shida tuliyonao waafrika na kuwa kama tumerogwa ni kwamba kwenye issue ambazo ni extremelly vital huwa tuna mawazo ya tofauti sana ambayo hatuwezi kufanya reconciliation ama kupata common ground..Shida kubwa sana na ndio maana tunatumiwa kama watumwa tu.
    Kwani hata utumwa ulipoisha especially maeneo ya carribean kwenye sugar cane plantations nk...Wazungu hao hao waliamuwa kuleta labor ambao walikuwa wanawalipa at least kamshahara..Labors hao walikuwa kutoka China na India na si Afrika tena licha ya kwamba walifanya kazi zile zile zilizofanywa na watumwa weusi....Yani waliletwa kufanya kazi zile watumwa walikuwa wakifanya lakini wao walikuwa wakilipwa...Sasa kama kweli walikuwa wana nia nzuri na hao waafrika kwanini wasingeedelea kutumia msaada wa waafrika hao hao ila sasa wawalipe?
    Ni kweli baadhi ya wale waliokuwepo walianza kulipwa na wengine kuanza kuununua uhuru wao upya...Lakini kwanini hawakuendelea kuwaleta hao waafrika badala yake wakabadili...Ni kwamba waliona waafrika hatustahili kulipwa bali ni watumwa milele....Waafrika msiposoma historia na kuilewa mtabaki watumwa milele.
     
  17. Z

    Zungu Pule JF-Expert Member

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    To answer your question, you first tell us, why do you think we should have Rwanda included in EA union? And why EU is so strict in accepting the membership of some countries, such as Turkey?
     
  18. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Thanks Bubu Ataka Kusema, The Kagame strongman is feeling the heat.He has played the genocide card for too long.And not that the world did not sympathise ,far from it.Only that he has made his foreign policy-GONOCIDE,local politics-GENOCIDE, incursions into Congo-a result of GENOCIDE,Arusha-must sympathise with-GENOCIDE.
    Mr Kagame's game in Congo is what is not amusing many people.
    This article by Bubu Ataka Kusema is also a reflection on how Mr Kagame wants sympathy from the rest of East Africa to toe the GENOCIDE foreign poliy of his.
    The West has not bought the argument because the conflict in Congo and Rwanda fro that matter is now polarising his relations with even his neighbours.
     
  19. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Geee!!! Some people don't know how to read!!! I am a mouth piece of the west just by posting this article!!!! Duh!!! Kazi kweli kweli!!!! :confused: :confused:
     
  20. Sura-ya-Kwanza

    Sura-ya-Kwanza JF-Expert Member

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    A-Apparently, you have nailed it!

    B-Shortsightedness, and remember, the agents of the so called west, are there to destabilizes every effort to see a unification of the sovereign states of Africa.

    Call B, Baseless, but the reality is we need to come together as Africans.

    What Kagame is calling for, is for us to be partners in global economies, and not servants!

    If I am not mistaken Museveni, is notoriously known for such rhetorics-We need more of these Presidents calibre to ensure Africas Economic Independence.
     
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