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Husseni Mwinyi na priorities za JWTZ

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Game Theory, May 9, 2008.

  1. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Kama mjuavyo wanajeshi wetu ambao wengi wao ni kaka zetu, baba zetu, dada zetu na wajomba wetu wamerudi baada ya kumaliza latest military adventure za JK na MEMBE kule Comoros. Mimi na wenzangu wachache humu JF tuliipinga hii vita from day one kwani hatuamini kuwa unaweza kusperad democracy kwa mtutu wa bunduki na pili tulipinga hii vita kwani JK na serikali yake hawakuwa open kuhusu gharama na mandate ya AU achiliambali legality ya hiyo vita yenyewe according to International law.

    In short AU haikutoa pesa kwa ajili ya hiyo vita,South Africa ilichomoa kupeleka wanajaeshi wao na bila kusaghau Senegal nao hawakuwa tayari kurisk maisha ya watu wao kwa ajili ya hii vita. Cha ajabu baadhi ya wana JF wamekuwa mstari wa mbele kupinga matumizi mabaya ya fedha za serikali lakini wako kimya kuhusu gharama zilizotumika kule Comoros...huwa wanajua na majibu ahhh AU ilifund the wholeoperation lakini ukiwa uliza AU imeshindwa kununua Helocopter kule DARFUR wamepata wapi pesa za hii vita hupewi jibu sahihi...au ukiwaambia kuwa AU ilishindwa kupata pesa kwa ajili ya Pan African parliament lakini leo serikali yetu inatuongopea kuhusu gharama zote za vita ya Comoros

    Sasa kwenye hili japo I was against this idiotic war lakini ningependa tuwatreat hawa wanajeshi wetu kwa Heshima...imeshindikana vipi kufanya PARADE YA KUWAPOKEA hawa wanajeshi? Hussein Mwinyi kashindwa vipi kutupatia taarifa kamili ya hawa wanajeshi wetu ambao badala ya kutumika ndani ya nchi wanasiasa wameamua kuwatumia kuspread democracy nchi za nje hatujaambiwa wangapi walijeruhiwa, wangapi wamekufa, na failures zipi zilitokea na jinsi gani zinawezakuepukika.

    Sisemi sensitive military operations details ziwekwe kwenye public domain lakini nadhani Watanzania deserve better than haya mambo yanayofanywa na HUSSEIN MWINYI, JAKAYA KIKWETE na BERNARD MEMBE

    Nahisi labda wanajua kuwa watu wengi watauliza maswali ndio maana wanafanya mambo kisiri siri lakini regardless of anyone's views on this illegal invasion of Comoros JWTZ deserve better than this charade ya HUSSEIN MWINYI


    Sasa tunaambiwa kuwa wanajeshi zaidi ya 80 walikufa mbagala na uvumi huu inaendelea kwa kasi kubwa...aliko mheshimiwa waizri haijulikani baada ya kuonekana siku mbili tatu...kana kama hiyo haitoshi TPDF na Meja Jenrali MWAMUNYANGE wamegeuzwa kama vile vikaragosi vya kupokea cheki za milioni 6 na tatu kwa ajili ya mbagala

    Hivi kweli tumefikia wareduce hawa wanajeshi wetu to this level of kupokea magunia ya maharagwe?

    wizara ya ulinzi wana bajeti kubwa tuuu halafu leo tunaambiwa kuwa hawana means za kuallocate mabomu yaliyobaki kule mbagala hivyo wanaagiza kifaa / Hussein Mwinyi anatuambia eti anataka kutumia SETELAITI toka SOUTH AFRICA...sasa tuamini nini?

    Mwisho zaidi ndio nini kuwadhalilisha wanajeshi wetu mbele ya wale wazungu kufanya drill mchana kisa tumepewa yale magari mabovu kwenda Darfur

    Huyu jamaa(HUSSEIN MWINYI) kwanza sijui kama alishalipa zile pesa za scholarship ya UTURUKI...by the way aliiipata hiyo nafasi wakati DEDI yake tayari ni rais

     
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  2. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

    #2
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    Kwa taarifa ambazo mimi nilizipata ni kuwa waliporejea hawa wanajeshi, walifanyiwa mapokezi kwa heshima zote za kijeshi pale Airwing. Mwinyi alikuwepo kuwapokea na kwenye taarifa yake alieleza kuwa askari mmoja tu alifariki (sikumbuki jina lake). Huyo askari alifariki wakati wa harakati za kupakua mizigo katika meli, alitumbukia majini na kwa bahati mbaya mwili wake haujapatikana hadi hivi sasa.
    Kuhusu suala la gharama, inabidi tuelezwe sawasawa mchango wa AU katika vita hiyo kwa sababu ni kweli inaelezwa kwa maneno tu kuwa Au ndiyo ilifund lakini hakuna anayetoa data kuonyesha ilifund kwa kiasi gani.
     
  3. Kibunango

    Kibunango JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    GT, kabla ya kuchangia bandiko lako, ningependa kujua kama una chuki binafsi na JK, Membe na Mwinyi?
     
  4. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

    #4
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    wewe GT legality ya vita utaipinga vipi wakati the federal government of Comoros ilitoa ruhusa. How was it an illegal invasion? Na kwamfano wahaya au wachaga au wamakonde wangeamua kuvunja sheria and declare independence alafu serikali ikashindwa kuwashuhulikia kungekuwa na tatizo kama tungeomba msaada? Swala la public funds being used to enforce the rule of law in the region in a Short and Relatively cheap way with little human and financial cost halina maovu yoyote in my opinion (subject to any hidden motives of course)... Matumizi mabaya ya fedha tanzania yako in various forms... this is not one of them. Regional stability is of paramount importance
     
  5. Kibunango

    Kibunango JF-Expert Member

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    Umesahau kisiwa cha Pemba, ambapo Wazee wa huko wanataka serikali yao, kwa kufananisha na hayo yaliyotokea huko Comoro
     
  6. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    kwa maana hiyo kila kitakapotokea instability kwenye region iliyo karibu na Tanzania, tutatoa majshi yetu, na costs zetu kwenda kuleta amani?

    kama ni hivyo, kazi ya AU ni nini basi?
     
  7. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa nini serikali isitoe tamko la nani alilipia vita ya Comoro?
     
  8. t

    think BIG JF-Expert Member

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    May 9, 2008
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    Tujadili suala hili katika picha mbili, Afrika (kama bara) na Tanzania (kama nchi mwanachama). Kwa sasa rais wetu JK ana kofia mbili, moja ni Mwenyekiti wa Umoja wa Afrika (yaani AU), na pili ndiye rais wa Tanzania yetu (mwanachama wa AU).

    Inapotokea kuna matatizo (kama vita, machafuko, ghasia na matatizo mengineyo) katika nchi mwanachama wa AU, AU kama taasisi hufanya tathmini ya kujua nini kifanyike ili kuondokana na matatizo hayo!

    Kama ni machafuko ya kisiasa (ubabe wa kiongozi mmojawapo) kama yaliyotokea kule Comoro, AU inachokifanya ni kutuma askari wa kutuliza ghasia na kumuondoa madarakani huyo kiongozi. Ili kufanikisha hilo, inahitaji askari (either wa miguu, angani, au majini), inahitaji magari ya kivita, vifaru, na wakati mwingine hata ndege ya kivita! Pia, inahitaji silaha za aina mbali mbali (kama vile, risasi, mabomu na kadhalika).

    Hapa naomba ieleweke kitu kimoja, taasisi hii (AU) haina ndege ya vita, Jiefang, wala kifaru!! Yenyewe ina wataalamu tu wa kufanya tathmini (wengi hawalifahamu hili)!!

    Mara baada ya kufanya tathmini na kutuma ripoti kwa watendaji wa juu (Mwenyekiti akiwa mmojawapo, kwa sasa JK), uomba nchi wanachama (wa AU) mwenye uwezo wa ku-provide hayo mahitaji!

    Ndipo hapo nchi kama Tanzania hujitokeza na kusema, nita-provide
    askari wa miguu - 47
    askari wa majini - 12
    vifaru - 2 na kadhalika! Na nchi nyingine pia itajitokeza, mpaka hapo yale mahitaji yote yaliyopendekezwa kwenye tathmini yatakapokamilika! Kisha msafara unaanza ...

    Kama mnavyoelewa sasa AU (kama taasisi) haina askari wala kifaa chochote cha kivita, kwa hiyo inachokifanya kwa nchi zilizojitolea hivyi vifaa pamoja na askari wake, ni kuwalipa pesa kwa gharama ya kila kifaa (kwa thamani ya sasa ya dukani, i mean brand new!). Kama Tanzania walipeleka Kifaru (kikuu kuu cha mwaka 2001), basi hujakulipwa Kifaru kipya kwa thamani ya bei ya Kifaru kwa leo (2008). Na hii ndio "bonus pekee" inayofanya majeshi mengi ya nchi za Western & Central Africa kuchangamkia inapotokea shughuli kama hii!

    Suala la pili ni askari, hawa huwa na mkataba maalunm kwa ajili ya kazi hii, ambao huwa nje ya mkataba wake wa sasa wa kazi na JWTZ! Ambapo sijahamu figure kamili lakini husemekana ni mnono sana!

    Sasa tukirudi kwenye mada, Tanzania (kama mwanachama wa AU), kutokana na majeshi yale kufanikiwa, basi inajivunia nchi mwanachama mwenzetu kupata utulivu, na tunasikia sasa wanapanga tarehe ya kufanya uchaguzi wa kidemokrasi (sote tunaamini hili ni jambo zuri). Kwa upande wa JK, yeye kama Mwenyekiti wa AU, may be alikuwa na maono (for the 1st time) kwamba hapa jeshi ni muhimu kuliko mazungumzo yasiyokwisha yaloyokuwa yakisimamiwa na Thabo Mbeki! Na hapa nakuthibitishia JK amezoa heshima nyingi sana dhidi ya Mbeki (alipinga hapo mwanzo kuhusu matumizi ya jeshi ktk suala hili)!

    Pili Tanzania kama nchi, nilishapata kuzungumza na "mkuu" mmoja wa jeshi kuhusu suala la kutoa majeshi yetu kwenda kulinda amani, akanieleza masikitiko yake kuwa Tanzania tumezubaa sana tunashindwa kuchangamkia "tenda" hizi, kwani zina manufaa sana kwa upande wa vifaa vya kijeshi (kama nilivyozungumzia "bonus")!! Pili alinieleza askari wa kwenda huko sio shida, kwani wao wenyewe ndio hujitokeza kwa wengi kuomba kwenda (kutokana na "marupurupu" ya shughuli hiyo)! Sasa baada ya shughuli hii, JWTZ inakwenda kupata malipo yake ya vifaa vyote ilivyopeleka Comoro (whether zimeharibia na kuachwa huko comoro au vimerudi na vinaendelea kutumia makambini kwao JWTZ!). Italipwa kwa vifaa vyote!

    Kuhusu askari kufa kazini, jamani hakuna kazi isiyo na "ajali kazini"! Na hakuna anayependa hilo litokee, iwe kwenye kazi yeyote! Kwa sasa, sote kama wananchi wa TZ tunatakiwa tutambue mchango waJWTZ na kutoa rambi rambi wa huyo askari mmoja aliyepoteza maisha.

    Naomba kuwakilisha.
     
  9. Gembe

    Gembe JF-Expert Member

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    Pinda alishalijibu hilo na hata Mkuu wa kaya alishasema,Pesa yote ililipwa na AU.
     
  10. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

    #10
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    Kuna ubishi mkubwa katika hili. Kuna report zinaonesha kuwa AU haikulipa hizi pesa.
     
  11. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Pia kuna ripoti kuwa Ufaransa ilisaidia malipo ya usafiri. All in all I suport our action in Comoro.
     
  12. Mwanamalundi

    Mwanamalundi JF-Expert Member

    #12
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    Vipi kuhusu Zimbabwe???
     
  13. Mwanamalundi

    Mwanamalundi JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    What about Northern Uganda??? or darfur in that case??? Are these not African countries???
     
  14. t

    think BIG JF-Expert Member

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    wanarudia uchaguzi, ambapo UN umeomba waangalizi zaidi kutoka nje ya Zimbabwe! Katika hili AU haina la kusema zaidi ya kutuma waangalizi zaidi ya ule uchaguzi wa mwanzo. Na hapa ninauhakika watanzania wengi (taasisi pamoja na NGOs) watashirikishwa!
     
  15. t

    think BIG JF-Expert Member

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    AU na yenyewe inategemea pesa kutoka nchi wahisani G8, EU, nk! Hiyo pesa haiendi moja kwa moja kwa nchi (mfano Tanzania), inakwenda kwa AU. Mara baada ya vita Tanzania hulipwa kilicho chake.
     
  16. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    kwa tetesi zilizopita mjini ni kwamba mwanajeshi akienda kulinda amani nchi yoyote ile, huwa analipwa dola elfu 50 akishafanikisha shughuli hiyo.

    hiyo pesa huwa sijui inatoka wapi, ila mwanajeshi hukabidhiwa kitita hicho na ndio maana wanalilia kupelekwa kwenye operesheni kama hizo.

    tunaomba ripoti kamili ya pesa yetu inavyotumiwa, kubabaishwa na kuambiwa AU italipia wakati hatupewi figures halisi zilizotumika ni dharau kwa wananchi
     
  17. Kibunango

    Kibunango JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu GT aliye washa moto huu yuko wapi?
     
  18. Mzuzu

    Mzuzu JF-Expert Member

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    Inawezekana ndivyo, ila kwa ufisadi uliopo Tz hawapati kiasi hicho! Askari kilio chao cha kila siku ni kwamba hawakupewa haki zao enzi na enzi tangu vita vya Kagera hadi operations zote za kusini mwa afrika.

    Recently ile ya Lebanon ambayo ililipiwa na UN fully walioenda waliambulia Tsh 9M kwa mwaka mzima waliokaa Lebanon na risk kubwa ya mabomu ya kule. Mafisadi walipita wakasema pesa mliyolipwa na UN kwa ulinzi wa amani Lebanon tumewakata malazi, chakula nk wakati chakula na mahema yalitolewa na UN separatelly. Mission kama hiyo inalipiwa na UN $9 kwa mwezi kwa kila askari na ofisa wa Jeshi lililotumiwa
     
  19. Mzuzu

    Mzuzu JF-Expert Member

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    nina maana $9000 kwa mwezi nje ya ration na malazi
     
  20. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #20
    May 9, 2008
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    Kuna point ambazo umezijenga ambazo ni za msingi. Lakini zote zinaweza kuporomoka kwa sababu umezijenga on wrong assumption ambayo umekuwa ukiirudia rudia tangia mwanzo wa operesheni hii ya kijeshi. Hakukuwa na Vita kati ya Tanzania na nchi yoyote au kikundi chochote kile. Wanajeshi wetu walishiriki katika operesheni ya kijeshi baada ya kuombwa na serikali halali ya Visiwa vya Comoro.

    Nilionesha tangu mwanzo kuwa "Vita" is a legal and technical term na ni mada ya kikatiba ambayo lazima linapotumiwa liangalie ukweli. Siyo kila mapigano ambayo wanajeshi wetu wanashiriki yanaweza kuitwa "vita". Sasa kama hakukuwa na Vita malalamikko yakko mengi yanaanguka.


    Swali la nani anagharimia mapigano au operesheni ya Kijeshi ni swali lako la msingi. Katika kufanya hivyo kuna advance payments na refunds. Nakubaliana na wewe tuulize ni nani aligharimia na ni mkataba gani waliingia wa kupata refund ya matumizi ya operesheni na malipo yamefikia wapi. Uganda, tulishiriki katika Vita na baadaye serikali ya Museveni iliilipa serikali yetu ingawa ilichukua miaka mingi tu.

    Hakukuwa na vita!


    Inaonekana ndugu yangu unachagua kufuatilia suala hili:

    [​IMG]

    Picha hiyo ni katika gwaride la kuwakaribisha nyumbani lililofanyika viwanja vya Air Wing. Walipokelewa na Waziri wa Ulinzi Dr. Mwinyi. Sasa sijui kwanini ulisema "imeshindikana kufanya parade ya kuwapokea" unless hukuwa unafuatilia kwa karibu vijana wetu hawa ambao ni mashujaa.

    I'll give you that one.. lakini sidhani kama ni hawa watatu tu.. we need a whole lot better!!


    I have no idea why you call this operation illegal. The president has the authority to deploy our military anywhere in the world for apparently any reason whatsoever that he see fit. You or I have no authority to question that power of the Commander in Chief. Kama hatupendi Ibara ya Katiba inayompa nguvu hiyo, tupiganie kubadili katiba, otherwise, the operation was constitutional and hence legal.
     
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