How can Tanzania afford to pay more than in the US or UK?

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Pamoja na mishahara ambayo ni mikubwa kwa wanasiasa (inc. posho) bado hawajaacha rushwa, uzembe kazini, kuhujumu wananchi na taifa? (this warrant for slash/cut of pay???

Tatizo la nchi hii si "how much people are paid for job done" tatizo ni tunapimaje perfomance? na kama hawakuzifikia what are remedies??..

Hapo ndio unafanya kosa; inaanzia mtu analiipwa kiasi gani na kwanini? Huwezi kulipa tu alimradi unamlipa mtu.

 

[Kichuguu]

An excellent piece of analysis. But unless you share with us, the rationale for the formula developed in the UK and the US, your request for justification will not mean anything. I would also request you to make a similar study with regard to countries that are neigbouring us and come up with figures. I am sure the Kenyan case would make you collapse!

Interesting!! Does it mean that Tanzanian and Kenyan politicians do more work than American politicians? Does it mean that Tanzanian and Kenyan teachers do less work than American teachers?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Interesting!! Does it mean that Tanzanian and Kenyan politicians do more work than American politicians? Does it mean that Tanzanian and Kenyan teachers do less work than American teachers?

Mwalimu tena tunaweza kuangalia kabisa tunavyowalipa madaktari wetu compared to madaktari wa nchi hizo nyingine na kulinganisha na wanasiasa wetu. Bado sisi tunawalipa madaktari wetu chini sana relatively na mishahara na marupurupu ya wanasiasa.

 

[Ngonini]

Hope this must be stipulated in the new consititution!

 

[FJM]

Huwezi kuaminika tena. Unatuambia Kenya hawategemei donors? Uliza kesi za akina Prof. Ongera (elimu) na Wlium Ruto (kilimo). Ongera kakwapoa Bil 4.2 ya kenya sawa na karibu Bil 80 ya hapa kwetu. Mijitu mingineinaandika tu hata kama ni utumbo. Mbona sisi kama hatuna cha kuchangia huwa tunasoma maoni ya wenzetu tu? kwani lazima uchangie?

Kuelewa nilichoandika hapa ni vema ukajielimisha kuhusu General Budget support (GBS), Basket Funds, and Project Funds. GBS donors wanalipa hela moja kwa moja hazina, hapa ndio kila wizara inaweza kupanga bajeti yake ya mwaka na kusomwa bungeni. In other words, hizo posho na vitafunwa vilivyowekwa kwenye bajeti kwa kila wizara vinatokana na makadirio ya mapato (TRA collections & GBS).

To refresh your memory, mwishoni mwa mwaka jana kuliibuka mzozo baina ya Wizara ya Fedha (kama serikali) na wafadhili (wa GBS) PALE Ubungo plaza. Mzozo huu ulitokana na budget iliyowasilshwa IMF kuwa tofauti na ile aliyosoma Mkullo na hapa kwa taarifa yako ndio serikali ilikuwa inapiga magoti kwa budget hii aliyosoma Mkullo bungeni. Yaani ni hivi mazungumzo ya kibakuli huwa yanaanza October November hapo ndio nchi wafadhili wanasema watachangia kiasi gani kwenye budget ya mwaka wa fedha unaofuata.

Sasa tukirudi kwenye Basket Funds and Project Funds, hizi serikali mara nyingi hawawezi kujua in advance ni kiasi gani zitapitakana na wala Hazina hawana mamlaka nazo kwa maana sio sehemu ya national budget. Na mara nyingi hizi ndizo hutumika kwa mtindo ule wa 'ECONOMIC DIPLOMACY' Kwa mfano Tanzania inawezeka kupitia wizara ya ujenzi wanaweza kuwa na makubaliano na nchi 2 au 3 na zaidi ili wasaidie ujenzi wa barabara fulani. Na utakuta mazungumzo hayo yanakuwa nje ya mfumo wa ki-bajeti ya serikali yaani Annual budget projectations. Pia kwenye miradi ya hivi hautakuwa vipengele vya POSHO au vitafunwa. Na hapa ndio nakurudisha kule mwanzo kwamba Tanzania inaomba hela kwa posho maana GBS inangia hazina na hazina wanagawa kwa kila wizara kutokana na estimates za particular ministry. Bila GBS tunazama- hakuna mishahara, hakuna posho etc.

Bila kukuchosha Ngwendu, Kenya budget yao haitegemei GBS. Mashangingi yao na malipo mengine ya wabunge wao hayafanyiwi maombi/mazungumzo na wafadhali. They've passed that era of begging. Fundings unazoona ni hizo za Project Funds na kama nilivyosema hizi ni more of ECONOMIC DIPLOMACY kuliko umatonya.

 

[fredmlay]

Interesting!! Does it mean that Tanzanian and Kenyan politicians do more work than American politicians? Does it mean that Tanzanian and Kenyan teachers do less work than American teachers?

My opinion in this issue is to pay less money to politicians than many other professionals. Doctors, profesors and many other professionals will remain on their work because it will be better to do professional work than to be a political leader

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

If you look careful you will see that there is in fact a kind of parity between what the upper echelon of Tanzanian public servants are getting to that of some of the very developed world. It is as if the salaries of this group are tied somehow to the salaries of similar groups in developed world. But, when it comes to the lower class (the majority of workers) there is no such parity at all. While the minimum wage in US per hour is 7.50 (federal minimum wage) in Tanzania the minimum wage is about 843.75 per hour Tsh. This is almost 0.55 cents US dollars! MPs in Tanzania when all income is factored in they are getting about 43USD per hour.

The US MP gets about 90.625USD per hour. This is about 12 times the federal minimum wage.

Tanzanian MP on other hand as I have said gets about 43USD per hour(abt half that of US) but compared to minimum wage of 0.55 thats about 78 times more than the minimum wage of a Tanzanian worker.

So how do we justify this disparity int he lower echelon?

 

[Jasusi]

Hujui usemalo na ala hujajadili mada hapa. Hoja ni formula iliyotumika kulipa mishahara ya wabunge viz ile ya waalimu. Kenya, ambao nao wanapata donor funding ni miongoni mwa nchi zinazolipa mishahara mikubwa kwa wabunge na viongozi wao duniani na yet umaskini kwa watu wa chini ni mkubwa sana na kuna maeneo watu wanakufa njaa (Turkana, North Eastern, Eastern and parts of Coast Province).

Wako pia wanaokufa kwa kiu na hata funza. Mishahara ya waalimu ni midogo kupita kiasi. Je ni sahihi kuwa hivyo hata kama wana-finance budget yao yote? Hata hivyo nao wanapata donor funding, japo siyo kwa kiwango kama chetu. Unadhani kashfa ya funds za free primary education inayoendelea ni hela zao?

Think bigger bro!

Why can't we dare to be different? Why can't we dare to be more just? Just because Kenya does it should that make it okay?

 

[Mag3]

..FJM, what i meant ni kwamba fedha hizi ambazo Wabunge wa Kenya wanalipwa ni Kodi za Wananchi, na nakumbuka Wananchi wa Kenya walipiga kelele saana juu ya hili, hata kama Kenya wanakula jasho lao, Uchumi wa Kenya sio mzuri kiasi hicho cha Wabunge kulipana fedha nyingi kiasi hicho ambayo ni kodi ya Wananchi. Sina maana kwamba Wabunge wetu walipane kama wa Kenya, utakuwa ni utovu wa nidhamu na ulimbekeni kuiga maisha ya jirani yako kwa kivuli cha Maskini Jeuri.
Hapa la msingi Watanzania tuunge mkono hoja ya kupinga posho wanazolipana wabunge ili tuwe na vipaumbele na Fedha hizo tuzielekeze katika vipaumbele hivyo vya Maendeleo.
Kupanga ni Kuchagua- Julius Nyerere

Kenya's tax office is demanding that MPs pay tax on their full salary and perks, accusing them of breaching the constitution by failing to do so. The Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) has Tuesday instituted the process of ensuring Kenyan Members of Parliament start paying taxes beginning August last year when the new constitution was promulgated.

Domestic taxes commissioner John Njiraini has already written to national assembly clerk asking him to effect the process. This is as envisaged in Chapter 12 of the Constitution on Public Finance, Article 201 section (b) states that, the public finance system shall promote an equitable society, subsection (i) says, the burden of taxation shall be shared fairly;

Better still under the subtitle, Imposition of Tax Article 210 section (3) No law may exclude or authorize the exclusion of a State Officer from payment of tax by reason of - (a) the office held by the State Officer; or (b) the nature of the work of the State Officer.

Even though Clause 210 of the new Constitution directs that all public officers pay tax on all their income, Members of Parliament have not been doing so for close to eight months since the new constitution came into effect.

Jamani Kenya tuachane nao, jamaa wanachanja mbuga katika mambo mbalimbali ya msingi ya uwajibikaji ambayo hapa kwetu CCM imeyahatamia kwani ndio mtaji wake wa kubaki madarakani. Hapa tunaona jinsi itakavyobidi hawa Wabunge wao walipe malimbikizo ya kodi kutoka kwaka jana katiba mpya ilipoanza kufanya kazi na hiyo kodi si kwa mshahara tu bali posho za aina zote wanazopokea.

Huko Marekani Raisi Obama anakuwa mtu wa kwanza kutangaza jumla ya kipato chake yeye na familia yake na kiasi cha kodi wanacholipa. Hapa Tanzania sidhani hata kuna mwenye fununu ya kipato cha Raisi Kikwete na mkewe na hata kama wanalipa kodi ipasavyo, sasa hali kama hii ndio inawapa jeuri watawala wetu kwani kama hawa wangedaiwa kodi, nani huyo angekuwa na ujasiri wa kukwepa ?

 

[Mtazamaji]

Thats why nimeuliza kanuni ya Tanzania ni ipi? Miye nimechagua tu mifano (najua sababu mtu yeyote aliyepitia hata nje ya darasa la uchumi na kuelewa ubepari anaweza kukuambia kwanini mishahara ya UK na US iko hivyo). Ya TAnzania sijui ndio maana nimeuliza swali.

Mwanakijiji fanya uchunguzi zaidi

• "RPC" wa Newyork au London ana mshahara wa shilingi ngapi na tofauti yake na mshahara wa mbunge ni kiasia gani alafu ulinganishe na RPC wa mkoa wa tanzania na mshaharawambunge wa Tanzania
• "Education Officer" wa jimbo la US anapata mshahara wa shilingi ngapi tofauti na mbunge wa US alafu linganisha na tofauti ya mshahara kati ma Afisa elimu wa mkoa wa tanzania na mbunge wa Tanzani
• "Afisa afya" wa jimbo lolote la US anapata mshara kiasi gani na tofauti yake na mbunge wa USA
• Tunasema tuna kilimo kwanza ulizia afisa kilimo wa mkoa anapata mshahara wa shilingi ngapi ?

Kifipu utaona na utagundua nchi zetu za africa ziko zaidi kisiasa. We promote an appraise people in politics than in professional career. Mimi napenda nione watu hao niliowataja mikoni wanapata mishahara zaidi kama si sawa na wabunge

Kifupi watu ambaoo ndio wanatakiwa kuwa forntline kubadilisha maisha ya watu ni wale wanaotakiwa ku manage ku plan na ku organise mambo ya elimu. afya, kilimo, uvuvi, uhandisi mikoni wako hoii kiuchumi.

Yaani mtunga sera ni muhimu zaidi kulio mtekeleza sera. this is wrong Ndio maana naona priority zetu watanzania ziko kisiasa zaidi kivitendo lakini kwenye makaratasi ni kilimo kwanza

 

[fredmlay]

While the minimum wage in US per hour is 7.50 (federal minimum wage) in Tanzania the minimum wage is about 843.75 per hour Tsh. This is almost 0.55 cents US dollars! MPs in Tanzania when all income is factored in they are getting about 43USD per hour. The US MP gets about 90.625USD per hour. This is about 12 times the federal minimum wage.Tanzanian MP on other hand as I have said gets about 43USD per hour(abt half that of US) but compared to minimum wage of 0.55 thats about 78 times more than the minimum wage of a Tanzanian worker. So how do we justify this disparity int he lower echelon?

Mzee Mwanakijiji wengine tukisikia haya tunatokwa machozi, huu wizi wa kisiasa tunaweza kuutokomeza tu tukipata katiba mpya yenye kuweka uwiano wa kukagawa hakaka kakeki ketu na kufanya siasa ni kazi ya wito na siyo ya kujinufaisha kama ilivyo sasa

 

[Kobello]

If you look careful you will see that there is in fact a kind of parity between what the upper echelon of Tanzanian public servants are getting to that of some of the very developed world. It is as if the salaries of this group are tied somehow to the salaries of similar groups in developed world. But, when it comes to the lower class (the majority of workers) there is no such parity at all. While the minimum wage in US per hour is 7.50 (federal minimum wage) in Tanzania the minimum wage is about 843.75 per hour Tsh. This is almost 0.55 cents US dollars! MPs in Tanzania when all income is factored in they are getting about 43USD per hour.

The US MP gets about 90.625USD per hour. This is about 12 times the federal minimum wage.

Tanzanian MP on other hand as I have said gets about 43USD per hour(abt half that of US) but compared to minimum wage of 0.55 thats about 78 times more than the minimum wage of a Tanzanian worker.

So how do we justify this disparity int he lower echelon?

Mwanakijiji......If you compare it against the country's GDP,cost of living and per capita representation without forgetting the structure of the legislature(viti maalum/kuteuliwa),you will come into conclussion that only selfish and greedy people will support the structure of our wage bill.

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

It is simply disgusting.

 

[Jasusi]

Mzee Mwanakijiji wengine tukisikia haya tunatokwa machozi, huu wizi wa kisiasa tunaweza kuutokomeza tu tukipata katiba mpya yenye kuweka uwiano wa kukagawa hakaka kakeki ketu na kufanya siasa ni kazi ya wito na siyo ya kujinufaisha kama ilivyo sasa

Si umeona jinsi CCM inavyopiga vita lile wazo tu la kuondolewa posho serikalini? Wapo pale kwa maslahi ya tumbo zao zaidi ya wananchi.

 

[Mtazamaji]

Si umeona jinsi CCM inavyopiga vita lile wazo tu la kuondolewa posho serikalini? Wapo pale kwa maslahi ya tumbo zao zaidi ya wananchi.

Na tatizo la tanzania sio posho tu ni kwamba tunategeneza kiazazi cha wanasiasa. badala ya kizazi cha watendaji. Hata mishahara inajionyesha. hakuna fair salry structure ya publi officer kulingana na majukukumu na wajibu

Yaani

• RPC anayetakiwa kusimamia usalama wa Mkoa anazidiwa mshara na mbunge anayewakilisha lililo ndani ya mkoa
• Afisa Elimu wa mkoa anayetakiwa kusimamia maendeleo ya elimu mkoani au wilayani anazidiwa mshaharana mbunge. wa jimbo

Kwangu this is not fair salary scheme k ulingana na ukubwa wa wajibu na majukumu

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mwanakijiji......If you compare it against the country's GDP,cost of living and per capita representation without forgetting the structure of the legislature(viti maalum/kuteuliwa),you will come into conclussion that only selfish and greedy people will support the structure of our wage bill.

yeah hilo hata naogopa kuliangalia kwa sababu linatisha zaidi.. kwa sababu ukiangalia fedha tunayowalipa hawa watu (wa juu relatively to our GDP) na kulinganisha na wenzetu nao wanavyowalipa watu wao relatively to their GDP huitaji mtu akupe semina elekezi kujua kuwa tunawaibia Watanzania sana.

 

[Wacha1]

Watoa magamba wanafuata azimio la Zanzibar, kuna haja kubwa ya kurudisha Azimio la Arusha maana waliokuwa wanabeza azimio hilo matokeo yake ndiyo hayo ya kutukuza wageni na kuwaacha Watanzania watumwa kwenye nchi yao wenyewe. Je waende wapi?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Nimechukua challenge ya mtazamani hapo na kujaribu kulinganisha na huku. Mkuu wa Shule za Umma za Detroit (Detroit Public Schools Superintendent) analipwa dola 280,000 kwa mwaka. Mbunge wake (mwakilishi wake) analipwa kama 174,000!

 

[Mtazamaji]

Kuna hiki kitabu ni cha zamani lakini kina mambo ya msingi mbayo hata leo yapo. Ni cha Walter rodney . Nitachukau baadhi ya vipengele

...............same problem exists with engineers, technicians, doctors ,agriculturalists and even administrators and lawyers in some places. Middle level skills in fields such as welding are also lacking. To make matters worse, there is at present a 'brain drain' from Africa, Asia and Latin America towards North America and Western Europe.
This is to say, professionals, technicians, high-level administrators and skilled workers emigrate from their homes, and the small number of skilled people available to the underdeveloped world are further depleted by the lure of better pay and opportunities in the developed world.

My Take
In current situation brain drain inayofanyika siyo ya from africa to europ or USA but ni drain from proffesional career to poilitics. Hiki kitabu cha walter rodeny kinaitwa How europe udedeveloped africa. Lakini kuna factor kama hii ukiiangalia kwa marefu na mapana Tunaweza kusema How Africa is underdeveliping itself.

----------------------------------------

Walater Rodeny anaendela kumbuka hiki ni kitabu cha mwaka 1970's. Ingawa data zake kwa sasa si sahii laini zinatoa picha halisi. Smo hiki kipande

It has been noted with irony that the principal ‘industry' of many underdeveloped countries is administration. Not long ago, 60%, of the internal revenue of Dahomey went into paying salaries of civil servants and government leaders.

The salaries given to the elected politicians is higher than that given to a British Member of Parliament, and the number of parliamentarians in the underdeveloped African countries is also relatively high.

In Gabon, there is one parliamentary representative for every 6,000 inhabitants, compared to one French parliamentary representative for every 100,000 Frenchmen. Many more figures of that sort indicate that in describing a typical underdeveloped economy it is essential to point out the high disproportion of the locally distributed wealth that goes into the pockets of a privileged few.........................

My Take
Huo Mfano wa Gabon ni typical mfano wa Zanzibar ukiangalia proortion wa wabunge per wananchi mbunge baadhi ya wabunge wa zanzibar ni swa na diwani wa Dar. Kwani tuwe na wabunge wengi hivi wakati matatizo yetu ni common. maji , umeme elimu, miundmbinu, Kilimo na afya. Wezetu ulaya wana area specific problem zaidi sababu cooman problem walishazimaliza .


Walter Rodeny anaedelea ni hadithi ya mwaka 1973 but ipo hai hadi leo 2011

................

Members of the privileged groups inside Africa always defend themselves by saying that they pay the taxes which keeps the Government going. At face value this statement sounds reasonable, but on close examination it is really the most absurd argument and shows total ignorance of how the economy functions. Taxes do not produce national wealth and development. Wealth has to be produced out of nature – from tilling the land or mining metals or felling trees or turning raw materials into finished products for human consumption. These things are done by the vast majority of the population who are peasants and workers..............

My Take

CCM ina sera ya kilimo kwanza ni wabunge wake wangapi wana mashamba japo eka kumi ya kuzalisha mifano. Hiyo mishaara wanayoapata wantumia kuwekeza kwenye nini hasa cha kuzalisha..........

NB
Tafuteni kitabu hicho kwenye Mtandao kama humnaa muda kukisoma chote nenda ukurasa wa 28 mpaka 35

 

[Mkandara]

Mzee Mwanakijiji,
Jibu lako ni rahisi sana kwani Tanzania mwalimu wa shule ya secondary (shule za kata) hana elimu sawa na mwalimu wa shule ya sekondari US wala UK, na pia kazi ya Ualimu kwa Tanzania ni kazi ya mwisho yaani wale walioshindwa maisha ndio hukimbilia wakati nchi za wenzetu kuwa mwalimu unatakiwa kwanza uwe sio tu na shahada (degree) bali umefanya vizuri ktk masomo.

Na sababu kubwa zaidi kuliko yote Ubunge ndio kazi (uwakilishi) kubwa yenye maslahi makubwa kuliko kazi nyingine zote ingawa haizalishi kitu.