How can Tanzania afford to pay more than in the US or UK?

[Hardwood]

Problem iliyoko TZ na nchi zingine za Africa ni kwamba hakuna any independent body for regulating maslahi ya wabunge and other executive political figures. Sheria ama kanuni zinazohusu maslahi ya wabunge zinapitishwa na wabunge wenyewe...katika hali kama hiyo ulitarajia nini?

Hebu fikiria kelele zisizo isha kati ya serikali na wakufunzi wa vyuo vikuu, walimu, madaktari and the like all crying for the same thing...maslahi duni!!!

 

[Saint Ivuga]

Hujui usemalo na ala hujajadili mada hapa. Hoja ni formula iliyotumika kulipa mishahara ya wabunge viz ile ya waalimu. Kenya, ambao nao wanapata donor funding ni miongoni mwa nchi zinazolipa mishahara mikubwa kwa wabunge na viongozi wao duniani na yet umaskini kwa watu wa chini ni mkubwa sana na kuna maeneo watu wanakufa njaa (Turkana, North Eastern, Eastern and parts of Coast Province). Wako pia wanaokufa kwa kiu na hata funza. Mishahara ya waalimu ni midogo kupita kiasi. Je ni sahihi kuwa hivyo hata kama wana-finance budget yao yote? Hata hivyo nao wanapata donor funding, japo siyo kwa kiwango kama chetu. Unadhani kashfa ya funds za free primary education inayoendelea ni hela zao? Think bigger bro!

kenya kenya hapa.kwani lazima tufanye kila wanachofanya wakenya?

 

[Makoye Matale]

Kwa maoni yangu mtu wa kwanza kulaumiwa katika mishahara mikubwa ya wabunge ikilinganishwa na waalimu na hata watumishi wengine ni Mhe. Sitta, spika aliyepita! Yeye ndiye katufikisha hapo tulipo leo. Enzi za Mwalimu mshahara wa mbunge ulikuwa sawa kabisa na mshahara wa DC na mshahara wa Waziri ulikuwa sawa kabisa na ule wa RC. Kwa sababu ya pengo kubwa la mishahara lililopo, leo usishangae kusikia DC anagombea ubunge na kuachana na huo u-DC na hata RC anagombea ubunge kuachana na huo u-RC. Hali imekuwa mbaya zaidi hata wataalam wetu kama madaktari, wahandisi, wahasibu, wanasheria, wahadhiri wa vyuo vikuu wote wanakodolea macho ubunge.

Mhe. Makinda ni muda wake wa kuweka mambo sawa muda huu, aondoe hizo posho za vikao halafu mishahara ya waheshimiwa ipunguzwe na fedha hizo zielekezwe kwenye miradi ya jamii. Yakifanyika haya, mwaka 2015 hatutakuwa na kupigana vikumbo kuingia bungeni.

Hebu tafakari, huko nyuma mbona mbio za kuingia bungeni hazikuwa kama miaka yetu hii? USD 2000 kwa mwezi ni mshahara tosha kabisa kwa mbunge hivyo kuna bakaa ya USD 5000 kwa mwezi kwa kila mbunge ukizidisha mara wabunge kama 320 hivi utapata USD 1,600,000 kwa mwezi sawa na USD 19,200,000 kwa mwaka ambazo ni sawa na TZS 28,800,000,000, fedha zikielekezwa kwenye miradi ya maendeleo wananchi wengi watafaidika.

Mhe. Makinda akiliweza hili atarejesha heshima ya Spika aliyoipeteza.

 

[Semilong]

I have been doing some little studying:

In the US
Average Senator or Rep in the US Congress receive about 174,000USD a year
Average Secondary school teacher receives around 56,000USD a year.
The US Senator or Rep receives about three times the salary of a teacher.

In the UK
Average UK MPs receive about £65,738 a year
Average Teacher's salary in the UK is about £33,333 a year

This means the UK MP receives about 2 times the salary of a secondary school teacher.

In Tanzania
The Tanzania MP receives about 2500USD a month (I'm purposely omitting all the allowances)
The Secondary school teachers receives about 360USD a month

It simply means the MP of Tanzania receive almost 7 times the salary of a secondary school student. If I were to put all the MPs allowances which bring his total income about 7000USD you will see that the MP receives in a month almost 18 times the salary that the teacher in Tanzania receives.

Now, will somebody help me what is the basis of the salary structure in Tanzania? Is it based on some arbitrary factor not tied in any way, shape or form to the productivity of the country?

It could have been better if TZ figure was annually rather than monthly. Annual figure would help forum users in understanding how closer our mps pay is to their uk counterparts

 

[Steve Dii]

Jamii ijuayo uwiano thabiti kati ya dharau, ubinafsi, chuki na ustaarab dhidi ya jamii nyingine na baina ya watu wake ni jamii yenye maendeleo. Isiyojua ni dumazi!

 

[Mzalendo]

I have been doing some little studying:In the USAverage Senator or Rep in the US Congress receive about 174,000USD a yearAverage Secondary school teacher receives around 56,000USD a year. The US Senator or Rep receives about three times the salary of a teacher. In the UKAverage UK MPs receive about £65,738 a yearAverage Teacher's salary in the UK is about £33,333 a yearThis means the UK MP receives about 2 times the salary of a secondary school teacher. In TanzaniaThe Tanzania MP receives about 2500USD a month (I'm purposely omitting all the allowances)The Secondary school teachers receives about 360USD a monthIt simply means the MP of Tanzania receive almost 7 times the salary of a secondary school student. If I were to put all the MPs allowances which bring his total income about 7000USD you will see that the MP receives in a month almost 18 times the salary that the teacher in Tanzania receives. Now, will somebody help me what is the basis of the salary structure in Tanzania? Is it based on some arbitrary factor not tied in any way, shape or form to the productivity of the country?

To be honest, the country's Remuneration scheme needs a complete overhaul,because as it stands now nothing seems to function correctly to say the least,everybody know it, i think thats why the state tries to cut corners with short term cash in hand schemes( posho) of which are iligal in the tax context.At the turn of the century, the west highest Remunerated proffessions were doctors and teachers alike. Just a few years ago when Tony blair was prime minister of UK, his wife cherie blair QC was a Recorder (a permanent part-time judge) she grossed more than the prime minister( without the benefits ofcourse). My emphasis here is the actual value for proffession nothing more nothing less .We cant be like west at the turn of the day but that shouldnt give us the right to be conscious Incompetence,trying to force a comparison with kenya is simply a joke, we should be comparing ourselves with burundi or zanzibar, but then again... ignorance is bliss they say

 

[KALABASH]

An excellent piece of analysis. But unless you share with us, the rationale for the formula developed in the UK and the US, your request for justification will not mean anything. I would also request you to make a similar study with regard to countries that are neigbouring us and come up with figures. I am sure the Kenyan case would make you collapse!

MBOPO: I believe you want MM to study the Kenyan case in the hope that the Tanzania case would eventually appear to be a lesser evil. No sir. Two wrongs dont make a right. Kenya's salaries for MPs and senior officers could be collossal but that cannot not be a justification for Tanzania to pay the same kind of salaries. If China in the years of economic struggle were to compare her salary structures with the US she(China) wouldnt be the economic powerhouse she is today.

 

[FJM]

...Bunge la Kenya ndilo pekee ambalo wanalipana mishahara minono zaidi duniani. Leo hii Mbunge wa Kenya anaweka mfukoni Kshs 1.1 Miliioni. tena ni Tax Free. sasa convert hio mwenyewe ktk Tshs uone dhambi ya asili wanayoifanya wabunge wa Kenya.

@Kivumah, Kenya hawazunguki duniani kuomba hela za kulipa posho na/au kununua the latest Shangingi. Wanakula jasho lao. Tatitzo lako nini hapa? Na hata kama Kenya wanalipana mishahara mikubwa beyond our imaginations, Tanzania tunakiwa ku-copy & paste? Unachosema hapa Kivumah ni sawa na mwanaume anaona jirani yake anavaa nguo za gharama kubwa, anaendesha gari la bei ya juu, kwa ujumla maisha yake yako juu , na vyote hivi anajilipia kutoka kwenye biashara zake. Sasa wewe hauna cent mfuko, na haujui utapata lini cent unaenda kukopa na kuomba ili uishi maisha yanayofanana na mwanaume wa jirani na familia yake.

Kwa maoni yake Tanzania ni sawa kuendelea na u-matonya pamoja na mikopo World Bank ili MPs wetu wapate malipo ya juu kama Kenya!

 

[maulaga]

Nimekupata vizuri sana MM.Nadhani hapa unajaribu kuonyesha jinsi kulivyo na pengo kubwa la mshahara kati ya waheshimiwa wetu na wafanyakazi wengine wa kawaida.Nadhani wakati umefika kwa wafanyakazi wote kuishinikiza serikali ipunguze hilo pengo aidha kwa kuongeza kima cha chini au kupunguza kipato cha wabunge ili kujenga heshima.

Ni kweli sasa hivi ubunge ni deal na ndo maana watu wanatumia pesa nyingi kuupata.CDM sasa hivi wameanza kuchafua hali ya hewa kwa kutaka kupunguza kipato cha wabunge na ndo maana wabunge wa CCM wamekuja juu sana kwani wanajua kuwa gharama walizoingia mpaka kupata ubunge ni kubwa sana.

Just imagine mtu kila mwezi ainaingiza 12million halafu leo unataka kumpunguzia mpaka below 5million unadhani atakubali kirahisi? Wafanyakazi wa serikali wanakiwa walikomalie hili kwani kwani wataendelea kunyonywa wakati watawala wakiendelea kuneemeka.

As divided as they are, ni ndoto kwa wafanyakazi kuufanyia kazi ushauri wako. Watakuambia kwa lugha nyepesi "They(MPs) eat, but we(TZ Workers) it too, they give us the leftovers!'

 

[Kivumah]

@Kivumah, Kenya hawazunguki duniani kuomba hela za kulipa posho na/au kununua the latest Shangingi. Wanakula jasho lao. Tatitzo lako nini hapa? Na hata kama Kenya wanalipana mishahara mikubwa beyond our imaginations, Tanzania tunakiwa ku-copy & paste? Unachosema hapa Kivumah ni sawa na mwanaume anaona jirani yake anavaa nguo za gharama kubwa, anaendesha gari la bei ya juu, kwa ujumla maisha yake yako juu , na vyote hivi anajilipia kutoka kwenye biashara zake. Sasa wewe hauna cent mfuko, na haujui utapata lini cent unaenda kukopa na kuomba ili uishi maisha yanayofanana na mwanaume wa jirani na familia yake.

Kwa maoni yake Tanzania ni sawa kuendelea na u-matonya pamoja na mikopo World Bank ili MPs wetu wapate malipo ya juu kama Kenya!

..FJM, what i meant ni kwamba fedha hizi ambazo Wabunge wa Kenya wanalipwa ni Kodi za Wananchi, na nakumbuka Wananchi wa Kenya walipiga kelele saana juu ya hili, hata kama Kenya wanakula jasho lao, Uchumi wa Kenya sio mzuri kiasi hicho cha Wabunge kulipana fedha nyingi kiasi hicho ambayo ni kodi ya Wananchi. Sina maana kwamba Wabunge wetu walipane kama wa Kenya, utakuwa ni utovu wa nidhamu na ulimbekeni kuiga maisha ya jirani yako kwa kivuli cha Maskini Jeuri.
Hapa la msingi Watanzania tuunge mkono hoja ya kupinga posho wanazolipana wabunge ili tuwe na vipaumbele na Fedha hizo tuzielekeze katika vipaumbele hivyo vya Maendeleo.
Kupanga ni Kuchagua- Julius Nyerere

 

[CAMARADERIE]

Kenya DO NOT go begging to pay for thier MPs salaries. They live within their means and thier budget is 100% Kenyan! Tanzania is depending on the so called 'development parners' to pay civil servant and MPs let alone development programmes ! For the Financial Year 2011/12 budget ya matumizi Ths 8+trillion, budget ya maendeleo Tsh 4+trillion - MAPATO YA NDANI Tshs 6+ trillion.

USA & UK can afford to pay for thier MPs and feed us, give us mosquito nets, and at the same fight in Iraq, Afaghanistan, na kumtandika babu yenu Ghadafi. And remember, there is no such thing a thing as free lunch- kijana Obama is now holding the remote control from THAT house, he can watch any channel, any time he likes.

In Tanzania,even if we were to wish, we cannot use DONOR FUNDS for paying salaries+poshos. They have put plug to this many years ago.

 

[Mahesabu]

Gap la walionacho na wasionacho ni kubwa......!
(i do remember my mwalimu nyerere)

 

[VoiceOfReason]

It really beats me, when this people come with an excuse that they deserve even more or the salary is not enough.... This is an insult to teachers and other Tanzanians who are expected to survive on peanuts while this so called waheshimiwa cant even let go of the poshos..., (with an excuse that we have got to pay their own drivers and assistants..., I think they should take lessons from teachers who survives with so little and still they have to take care of their families as well...

 

[DoubleOSeven]

An excellent piece of analysis. But unless you share with us, the rationale for the formula developed in the UK and the US, your request for justification will not mean anything. I would also request you to make a similar study with regard to countries that are neigbouring us and come up with figures. I am sure the Kenyan case would make you collapse!

... here it is and I reproduce: ...Now, will somebody help me what is the basis of the salary structure in Tanzania? Is it based on some arbitrary factor not tied in any way, shape or form to the productivity of the country?

Mind you, the man (Mkjj) correctly questions the basis of salary strucure in Tanzania with local factors relevance. Got it?

 

[Mahesabu]

Gap la walionacho na wasionacho ni kubwa......!
(i do remember my mwalimu nyerere)

 

[Froida]

Mpaka tutakapo punguza tofauti ya kipata kati ya watumishi,kipato kati ya wafanyakazi na wakulima ndipo tutakuwa na ustawi wa taifa kwa sasa ni hatari kwa mustakabali wa maisha,kupishana kwa walionacho nawasionacho kutafanya tupoteze amani nchini

 

[Topical]

Pamoja na mishahara ambayo ni mikubwa kwa wanasiasa (inc. posho) bado hawajaacha rushwa, uzembe kazini, kuhujumu wananchi na taifa? (this warrant for slash/cut of pay???

Tatizo la nchi hii si "how much people are paid for job done" tatizo ni tunapimaje perfomance? na kama hawakuzifikia what are remedies??..

 

[ngwendu]

India ambayo Prime Minister wake juzi alikuja hapa tukampigia magoti na kibakuli wanapata funding from DFID-UK. Na sasa kuna mjadala Britain as whether they should continue providing aid to India. Kwao India it does not matter kama how waingereza watasitisha vijicent vyao au la. They can survive. Hivyo vivyo - Kenya, wanaweza kusitisha fundings but as a nation Kenya will move on and in fact they have moved. Tanzania leo hii donors wakisitisha misaada yao we are finished.Angalia hii miaka miwili WALIYOPUNGUZA (siyo kusitisha) tumeyumba kuliko.

Kwa kukusaidia. Hapa Tanzania tunapata misaada ya kwa njia tatu, Budget support (GBS), project funds and basket funds. Ukijumlisha hizi 3 payment mechanisms utakuta approx. 50% ya budget inatoka kwa wafadhili. Kenya fundings wanazopata Kenya ni 'project funds' yaani ni nchi inaamua kusaidia kitu fulani basi wanatoa pesa lakini kama nchi hawakai na wafadhili kama sisi tulivyokaa nao pale Ubungo plaza kuomba msaada wa kuendesha HAZINA (cheque book ya nchi).

Hata hivyo swali la msingi hapa ni formula ya kulipa mishahara kwa MPs. mara kadhaa hili swali limeulizwa lakini majibu yamekuwa "mshahara ni siri ya mtu". Huko UK & USA everything is in the open, mishahara inalipwa kutokana na category aliyoko mtu. Na MP inajulikana kwenye government payment schedule anakuwa kwenye level gani. Ukitaka kujua mshahara wa Prime Minister David Cameroon au Predisent Obama utapata details bila shida yeyote. Hapa habari zimekuwa ni za kuviziana, mara Dr Slaa analipwa million saba, Mukama alipwa kiasi gani? -kimya! Mara tunapokea posho kulipa madereva, oh tunahitaji posho kulipa ombaomba wanakuja bungeni.

Huwezi kuaminika tena. Unatuambia Kenya hawategemei donors? Uliza kesi za akina Prof. Ongera (elimu) na Wlium Ruto (kilimo). Ongera kakwapoa Bil 4.2 ya kenya sawa na karibu Bil 80 ya hapa kwetu. Mijitu mingineinaandika tu hata kama ni utumbo. Mbona sisi kama hatuna cha kuchangia huwa tunasoma maoni ya wenzetu tu? kwani lazima uchangie?

 

[MAMENGAZI]

Sasa wakenya au waganda wakiharibu na sisi ndio tuharibu, ukweli ni kwamba gap ni kubwa na vigezo vinavyotumika havieleweki, kwani hao wabunge wanafanya kazi gani kubwa kulinganishwa na walimu, madaktari na wauguzi ambao kwangu mimi ni very important people.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

It could have been better if TZ figure was annually rather than monthly. Annual figure would help forum users to understand how far our mps are close to uk when it comes to their pay

Hata kwa mwaka kwa kutumia base salary tofauti bado itakuwa ni ile ile.