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Hivi ni kweli kwamba White people wana akili kuliko Blacks?

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by ogm12000, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. ogm12000

    ogm12000 JF-Expert Member

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    Je ni kweli kwamba whites wanaakili kuliko sisi (blacks).

    Kama si kweli kwanini wenyewe ndio wame influence maendeleo ktk kila sector?

    WAO

    1.Walitutawala.

    2. Wako juu kimaendeleo.

    3. Ndio wavumbuzi wa kila kitu.

    SISI

    1. Tuko juu ktk mambo yasiyo hitaji sana matumizi ya akili kama vile riadha, kuruka, bondia, n.k yani physically tupo fit kuwazidi.
    2. Ngono.
    3. Uvuvi
    4.Sisi tulichezea Diamond kwa kudhani haina maana.

    Siwezi kuyakumbuka yote. Wao wanadai wametuzidi akili? Je wewe unadhani ni kweli au la?

    NB: si mawazo yangu ni baadhi ya mawazo ya maprofessor wa kizungu. unaweza kupata video youtube kwa kuandika heading above kwa kiingereza.

    Inauma kweli...Lkn sometimes personally speaking nafikiri kuna kaukweli fulani kutokana na mambo waliyoyafanya na wanayoyafanya..

    nitatoa evidence nitakaporudi for the second time...lets discuss
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  2. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Watu weupe hawana akili kuliko weusi. Ukiangalia historia, watu weusi walistaarabika kwanza kabla ya weupe (westerners / Caucasians). Ustaarabu na dominance ya westerners umetokea kwa wagiriki --> Warumi --> Renaissance --> British Empire --> U.S.A/ E.U

    Ukiangalia Wagiriki walipata mengi sana kutoka Egypt na the crescent region.

    Ukiangalia Egypt yenyewe ilipata ujstaarabu wake kutoka kusini zaidi.

    Majibu ya maswali yako yote yapo katika mazingira zaidi kuliko akili. Ukitaka maelezo zaidi nitakufafanulia.

    Wakati Wagiriki walipokuwa wanachochea open discussion na innovation, wa Egypt walikuwa wanachochea elitism na secret societies.

    Kuna watu kama kina Imhotep, Hesy-Ra na Merit-Ptah wa Egypt ya kale waliogundua mengi wakati weupe wanaishi kwenye mapango. Kina Pythagoras na Erasthothenes walikuja kujifunza Egypt. Eratosthenes aliweza kuupima mzingo wa dunia katika kisima kilicho Syene katika Tropic of Cancer, tatizo la vumbuzi nyingi zinazosemwa kuwa ni za Wagiriki leo, originally zilikuwa za wa Egyptians ila system yao ya secret societies haikuruhusu publishing so to speak, kwa hiyo Wagiriki wakawa wanakuja kuchukua ujiko kirahisi tu.

    Huu ndio ulikuwa mwanzo wa decline ya Africa na rise of the west.

    Habari za kuchezea diamond ni upuuzi, kwa sababu, diamond imepewa chati kwa sababu za kibiashara tu, practical uses zake, apart from its industrial use as the hardest material, ni ndogo.

    Nitakupa mfano, mkifungiwa kwenye chumba, hamna contact na outside world. Ukiambiwa uchague gunia la diamond au gunia la chakula utachagua nini? Ukichunguza utaona hizi values nyingine ni apparent/ assigned na si real.Na wazungu walitushinda kwa ku dominate trade na ku define what is valuable and what is not.Ndiyo maana nikasema hili ni suala la mazingbira zaidi kuliko intelligence.Wazungu kwao hakuna vito kama Africa, kwa hiyo naturally walivishangaa.Sisi kwetu vito ni kama mawe tu, ukienda mtoni ulikuwa unakuta almasi ziko pembeni mwa mto (kuna sehemu Angola na Sierra Leone haya mambo yapo mpaka leo). Kwa hiyo naturally laws za demand and supply zina apply.

    Ukisema wazungu wana akili zaidi basically unaongea genetics, na katika genetics hakuna evidence ya hili. Nakushauri usome "Human Natures: Genes, Cultures and the Human Prospect" cha Paul R. Ehrlich.

    [​IMG]

    Halafu "The History of The Ancient World : From The Earliest Accounts To the Fall of Rome" cha Susan Wise Bauer

    [​IMG]

    Na "The Human Story: Our History, From the Stone Age to Today" cha James C Davis.

    [​IMG]

    Tena "The African Origin of Greek Philosophy: An Exercise in Afrocentrism"

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Ngoja niangalie tu hapa....chichemi kitu
     
  4. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Inakuwaje pale ambapo mko darasani na Wazungu na katika mitihani unawatupa mkono Wazungu walio wengi katika matokeo?

    Sidhani kama hivyo vigezo ulivyotumia (kututawala, kuwa na maendeleo kuliko sisi na hili la uvumbuzi si kweli kuna weusi wengi tu waliofanya uvumbuzi mbali mbali muhimu hapa duniani ambao umesaidia katika maendeleo ya nchi za Wazungu) Hivyo kuhitimisha kwamba Wazungu wana akili sana kuliko weusi si sawa hata kidogo.
     
  5. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Hili hatuwezi kulithibisha kwa sababu sisi tunaenda na kile tunachokisoma tu kwenye mavitabu ya historia. Na historia huandikwa kwa mtazamo wa yule anayeiandika. Kwa hiyo kama huyo mwandishi wa historia anatudanganya, sisi hatuwezi kujua wala kuthibitisha kwa namna moja ama ingine ya kile alichokiandika.

    Tunarudi kulekule kwenye historia. Unless wewe ulikuwepo na kushuhudia yote hayo, huwezi kulijua hilo kwa uhakika.

    Tunarudi kule kule.

    Naomba ufafanuzi tafadhali. Mazingira yepi hayo unayoyazungumzia bwana Kiranga.

    Huko Egypt wakati huo walikuwa wanaishi watu gani?

    Hao Wagiriki walifikaje huko Egypt? Walitembea? au walikuwa na vyombo vya usafiri?

    Duh! Basi kama ni hivyo Afrika imekuwa kwenye decline muda mrefu sana. Kwa nini lakini? Au labda Waafrika wa wakati huo walikuwa na akili zaidi kupita Waafrika wa waliowafuatia?
     
  6. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Bubu, sidhani kama kutumia akili za darasani kama kigezo ni sawa kwa sababu hilo limeshakuwa debunked siku nyingi sana. Lakini pia hata tukitumia mambo ya shule na darasani, utakuta mengi hasa yale ya kisayansi unayoyasoma, unakutana na wazungu wengi tu walioshiriki kwa kiasi kikubwa kuendeleza fani flani. Uongo? Nitajie fani ya kisayansi ambayo haina lizungu hata limoja...
     
  7. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Si kweli.
     
  8. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Sikubaliani kwa sababu wako weusi wengi pia wameshiriki katika kuvumbua mambo mbali mbali ambayo yana umuhimu mkubwa hapa duniani.
     
  9. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Sasa kwa nini nchi nyingi za weusi au sehemu nyingi za weusi kote hapa duniani ziko nyuma sana kimaendeleo kulinganisha na sehemu za wazungu? Chukulia kwa mfano Haiti ni nchi ambayo ilianzishwa na weusi waliokuwa utumwani. Lakini angalia maisha yao. Sasa hebu linganisha Haiti na New Zealand kwa mfano, nchi kisiwa iliyoanzishwa na wahamiaji wengi wa kutoka Uingereza na sehemu zingine za ulaya. Mbona wao wameendelea zaidi...
     
  10. Hebrew

    Hebrew JF-Expert Member

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    Si kweli.

    Tatizo la sisi weusi ni kukosa au kutopata opportunities za kuonyesha akili zetu kwetu au nje. Tukipewa chance huwa tunaonyesha akili zetu...fikiria sisi tulio wengi tumejifunza kuongea na kuandika lugha zao..wao ni wachache sana ambao wanaweza kuongea lugha zetu!! Pia, mazingira tunayosemea sisi ni magumu kulinganisha na hawa wenzetu.

    Mimi naona jinsi ya kulinganisha hili ni kuweka wote kwenye mazingira na oppurtunities sawa.
     
  11. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Nani katukosesha hizo "opportunities" ?

    Tukipewa "chance" na nani?
     
  12. Kimey

    Kimey JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu hapo kwenye nyekundu inamaanisha kua sisi tunajifunza lugha za kwa sababu tunatafuta oppotunities....sasa wao wajifunze za ketu kwashida ipi? labda ka anataka kuja kukaa kwa muda then ndo aajifunza!
     
  13. Kimey

    Kimey JF-Expert Member

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    anamaanisha na hao waliotuzidi Akili...teh teh teh
     
  14. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    ogm12000 please be informed as follows:

    Most of these studies (such as the well-known cranial capacity study) weren't conducted to scientific standards, and their findings have no merit. The results cannot be reproduced because of the integral flaws of the original parameters.

    The cranial capacity test, for instance, used samples which were below average for africans and compared them with average and above average skulls from Europeans. Females skulls made up a huge portion of the African sample, and they generally run smaller than males because of body proportions. It would be like if we took all of the Texans who were under 5'3" and used that sample to say that all Texans are short.

    Let be for a moment that cranial capacity has little bearing on intelligence. Some people have bigger heads than others. Neanderthals had bigger brain cases than modern humans, but there is no proof that they were smarter.

    IQ tests are also flawed in a similar manner, as they tend to test based on what your average upper-middle class white kid would pick up in life, slighting every other demographic in the process
    .
     
  15. Chamoto

    Chamoto JF-Expert Member

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    Mi naamini utamaduni unachangia kwa kiasi kikubwa kuto kuendelea kuliko akili. Tamaduni zetu za kiafrika zina tabia ya kuridhika sana na mazigira kuliko kutafuta njia ya kuboresha maisha.
     
  16. K

    Kibongoto JF-Expert Member

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    Opportunity upewe na nani?
    Lugha yako ina umuhimu gani kwao? Wewe unajifunza lugha yao kwa vile unaihitaji,wao hawaihitaji. Wachache wanaoihitaji wanakuja kuisoma na wanaweza tu. Mfano,China sasa hivi wazungu wanaelekeza nguvu ktk kujifunza lugha yao, sababu unajua ni nini? wanawahitaji ndio maana wanajifunza kwa kasi ya ajabu mpaka kwenye vyuo vikuu ktk foreign languages kichina wanakipromote kwa nguvu. wanataka wafanye nao business. Likewise China huko nyuma hawakuweka mkazo ktk lugha ya wazungu(kizungu/kiinglish/kiingereza sijui hivyo hivyo) lakini sasa hivi wamegundua kumbe wanahitaji,nenda kaone huko wanavyojifunza kwa kasi ya ajabu.
     
  17. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Point yako kwamba historia huandikwa na mshindi ina reinforce ukweli kwamba notion hii ya kwamba mweusi ni inferior kwa mweupe si ya kweli, kwa sababu majority ya historia ina m potray mweuis kama inferior.Ni siku za karibuni tu ndipo watu wameanza kuandika historia objective inayoweza kuwa tested na branches nyingine za knowledge kama anthropology na archaeology.

    Mazingira ninayozungumzia ni shida.Shida inafundisha ubunifu.Afrika hatukuwa na shida sana (baridi, kipindi kifupi cha kulima etc) kwa hiyo hatukuwa na haja ya kwenda mbali kutafuta biashara, chakula na makoloni. Wazungu walikuwa na shida, wakajua ukatili na uchumi mapema kuliko sisi, wakajua kwenda mbali kutafuta biashara na makoloni kabla yetu. Wakajua ukatili kuliko sisi, sisi tulikuwa good natured na overly trusting.

    Winston Churchill alivyofika Entebbe Uganda, akaona jinsi nchi ilivyokuwa ya kijani kutokana na uzao uliostawi, nchi ilivyokuwa imeneemeka kwa sababu ya kupata lake effect rains za kutosha throughout the year, in his typical non politically correct maner alisema - paraphrasing- hawa watu bahati yao mbaya pekee ni kwamba wana bahati nzuri sana, kwamba wamebarikiwa mpaka hii baraka inakuwa inawafanya wabweteke sasa. I have to agree.Huu ndio mzizi wa matatizo yetu, hakuna kitu genetic, ni mazingira tu. Kwa nini utake kwenda ku colonize nchi nyingine wakati kila kitu kipo nchini mwako?

    Huko Egypt wakati huo ndio kwanza watu wa Afrika walikuwa wanaanza kuchanganyika na watu wa the crescent region na southern Europe.Teknolojia ya Egypt ilitoka kusini, hata wa Egypt wenyewe katika ramani zao "kaskazini" yao ni kusini, upper Egypt ni southern Egypt na Sudan, lower Egypt ni northern Egypt, mindset yao ilikuwa oriented kuangalia Africa, si ulaya, kwa sababu walijua civilization yao ndipo ilipotokea.

    Wagiriki walikuwa na vyombo vya usafiri, walikuja kwa sababu walitaka elimu na Egypt ndipo palipokuwa na makao makuu ya elimu dunia nzima. By the way wa Egypt nao walikuwa wanatengeneza vyombo vya kusafiri katika mto Nile na bahari ya Sham, waliweza kufanya biashara na nchi zilizokuwa kusini further into Africa kwani waliona huko ulaya ni kwa ma barbarian tu hakuna deal. there was a PBS Nova special on this a few weeks ago on Egyptian shipbuilding, kwa hiyo kama ulitaka ku imply kwamba wao hawakujua kutengeneza vyombo vya kusafiri hii si kweli.
     
  18. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

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    Julius ,baada ya Haiti kupata uhuru,ilisusiwa na wafaransa,then Usa.Halafu waliotawala walikuwa ni mamluki ya Wazungu akina Papa Doc na Baby Doc.Unaweza kusema kama Bokassa,Mobutu etc.

    New Zealand na Australia ujue ni extension ya Brit empire.Kwa hiyo Britain ilipokuwa inachuma kwenye makoloni yake ,capital nyingine ilipelekwa visiwa hivi kuendeleza.

    Anyway watu akina Jacob Zuma ,wanafanya waafrika tuonekana hivyo.Kama makaburu wangekuwa na tabia ya Zuma ,nchi isingekuwa hivi sasa.

    Bongo hapa,vitendo vya sasa kisiasa,hapo Mzungu haamini what is happening.
    Anajiuliza;
    Kwa nini mbunge kila 5 yrs anapata gali la 100m,wakati jimboni kwake kuna zahanati hazina madawa,vitanda,watoto wanakaa chini ya mtu kusoma.sasa hapa hatuwezi kusema chochote
     
  19. Chamoto

    Chamoto JF-Expert Member

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    Unajua nilikuwa nabishana na mama mmoja mmarekani mweusi kuhusu Sara Palin ya kwamba hajui chochote kuhusu dunia hii na hii ni kawaida kwa wamarekani wengi ila kwa yeye (Sara Palin) ambaye ni kiongozi alitakiwa kuwa anafahamu kuwa Africa siyo nchi.

    Pia nikamwambia wamarekani wengi hawatembei nje ya state yao, utakuta mtu kazaliwa katika mji fulani na ufahamu wake niwa hapo hapa nikamwuuliza kwanini hawatembei? Akasema "We don't need to"
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Ewaaa,

    Tunarudi kule kule kwenye mazingira. Utamaduni nao ni sehemu ya mazingira.

    Kwa hiyo tukija kwenye swala la "nature vs nurture" tatizo letu Waafrika si "nature" (kwamba hatuna akili) bali ni "nurture" (kwamba hatuna mazingira yanayofanya innovation ku flourish)

    Na mpaka sasa hatuwezi kuingia katika utamaduni huu kwa sababu kuna old guards wanaofaidika na kuendelea kwa utamaduni wa kizamani. Na huu utamaduni umeota mizizi mara nyingine unakuta hata vijana wamepandikizwa ujinga huu, wengine hata hawajitambui haya mambo yanaoperate kwenye subconscious level.

    Ndiyo maana mpaka leo utakuta kuna member vijana wamo humu hawaishi kumtetea na kum excuse Kikwete, kisa nini? Eti rais ni symbol of a nation, ndiye chifu wetu, ndiye baba mwenye nyumba kwa hiyo hawezi kusemwa.

    Wakati Wafaransa washaua wafalme sana tu, tena si wafalme tu, mpaka na vijakazi wao na nobility yote, kwenye French Revolution.Leo wanaheshimiana, ukitaka kuleta ujanja ujanja Wafaransa migomo nje nje, wakati wao wana maisha bora kuliko sisi.

    Lakini sie ambao tunalipwa mshahara wa January June - if at all- bado tunapiga kelele "Kidumu Chama cha Mpainduzi"

    Unaona ngoma yetu ilivyo ngumu?

    Ukiniuliza kwa nini tuko hivi, nitakujibu ni "nurture" si "nature".
     
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