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Hivi ni kweli Kenya inaonewa mipakani?

Discussion in 'Kenyan News and Politics' started by Geza Ulole, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    Jamani naombeni niulize hivi ni kweli hawa jirani zetu wanaonewa kila siku kwenye mipaka yao? Ni mara ngapi hawaheshimu mipaka ya kimataifa ihusishayo majirani zao? Hivi kuna ubishi juu ya uhalali wa wao kulipia wanapoingia Serengeti kupitia Bolongoja gate?


    Vp kuhusu visiwa vya Migingo, vp kuhusu Ilemi triangle btn them, Sudan and Ethiopia? na vp kuhusu Northern border na Somalia bila kusahau Tanzania territorial waters karibu na Pemba ambapo hawa bwana hukamatwa kila siku wakivua pasipo uhalali! Na vipi kuhusu cattle rustling between Tarime (in Tz) na and Mara (in Kenya) border?


    Je hii ni hulka yao au kuna zaidi ya haya na inakuwaje newspaper zao haziandiki ukweli juu ya hili swala? Zote zinaonyesha ku-support ujinga wao yaani ubinafsi na kupenda vya dezo! Lini hawa jamaa wataheshimu mipaka na kujua hamna cha bure?

    Soma hapa


    TANAPA puts border area under control
    It's the end of ‘no man's park'
    By Staff Writer
    In a move that may have infuriated Kenya tour operators, the Tanzania National Parks Authority has shifted the border check-point from Bologonja gate to the base of Kuka hills, where the official territorial beacons, separating Kenya and Tanzania, are located.
    Tanzania's latest move to advance the border-crossing line from the original Bologonja gate entry to the beacons at the base of Kuka hills, further north in the Serengeti District, now totally wipes out the lush-green 17 kilometers wide buffer-zone that used to lie between Tanzania and Kenya.
    The Serengeti National Park, TANAPA has already constructed a new Rangers post at the Kuka borderline. The premises will also host customs check-point and immigration offices all under one roof. The structure keeps away intruders right at the borderline.
    The latest set-up is complete with staff housing to insure security at the controversial entry point, which despite being closed for 32 years, has remained a bone of contention between Kenyan tour operators and Tanzanian conservators.
    In the past, people entering Tanzania through the route used to walk or drive 20 kilometers before arriving at the customs offices. Kenyan operators saw this as an opportunity to enjoy game drives along the corridor and going back without having to reach the immigration point at Bologonja.
    Mean looking warden soldiers, clad in green uniforms, guard the entry point 24 hours a day while others patrol the entire borderline stretch.
    "When the Kenya Association of Tour Operators recently speculated that this entry point is about to be re-opened, Safari Companies from Nairobi started warming up to the occasion by driving their visitors into this wide buffer zone where they still could gaze at the 'big-five' without having to cross into Tanzania through the official gate," Mr. Mtango Mtahiko the Chief Warden at SENAPA explained.
    The wide stretching 17 kilometers buffer zone, which was entirely within Tanzania, was used to separate Serengeti National Park and Kenya's Maasai Mara and being used by a number of Kenyan Safari companies as a ‘no man's park,' but which contained a variety of wildlife to satisfy a non-demanding foreign visitor.
    The extensive corridor spots practically all species of wildlife available in Serengeti including the big-five. The natural springs found within the stretch has been attracting most animals.
    "There is an all-weather source of clean water here, the Bologonja springs, which in the past used to serve the entire Serengeti park however the pipes system have decayed and most rendered out of order," said Mr Mtahiko adding that the Environment Impact Assessment intended to revive the project.
    "But first we have to stop vehicles from making a mess of the 17 kilometer wide corridor which has been a free-fall for foreign tour companies; we needed to reclaim this portion of land," the Chief Warden maintained.
    For years since the closure of Bologonja entry route on the Tanzanian side, foreign tour operators, especially those from Kenya, have been enjoying the ‘free-of-charge' 17-kilometer wide, wildlife cocoon at Serengeti's expense. Sources say, they have been charging premium from their clients for this extended trip to this part of Tanzania after doing the Maasai Mara itinerary.
    Now all that is gone. The old immigration station and customs offices once located at Bologonja entry will shift into new offices at Kuka leaving no loophole for alien tour operators to get a taste of Tanzanian wildlife … free of charge.
    http://www.arushatimes.co.tz/front_page_1.htm

    Kenyan fishermen violate Tanzanian waters


    Published on: Fri, 10/30/2009 - 4:45pm

    Yasin Shaaban


    Kenyan fishermen who inhabit Vanga, a small hamlet that is the last inhabited point before the border, claim they have come under sustained harassment by Tanzanian security forces who bar them from fishing along the maritime border.
    Vanga has been one of the leading ancient fishing villages along the coastline, supplying most of the fish stocks for Mombasa and the entire south coast.
    But over 350 fishermen who work the vast stretch of coast that stretches close to 200 nautical kilometres claim the Tanzanian authorities have a replicated a ‘Migingo' over them.
    The fishermen say in recent past many of them have been arrested while on the Kenyan side of the maritime border and thrown into Tanzanian jails.
    Mr Musa Pandu, a fisherman for the last 10 years, says Tanzania has put a ring of security personnel who "arrest us, fine us or take us to their courts".
    Pandu, 34, has was arrested three times near Moa fishing grounds, allegedly tortured, prosecuted and fined together with other Kenyan fishermen.
    Recently, he was among 30 fishermen who were fined the equivalent of Sh10,000 each and another Sh100,000 for their boat by a Tanzanian court in Tanga.
    Kenyans are notorious for violating other people's waters as happened in Lake Victoria, where they have over-fished and invaded Migingo island, which belongs to Uganda
    http://www.pigahodi.com/node/275

    "Bologonja border-crossing point is closed": Tanzania Tourist Board


    Published on: Fri, 10/23/2009 - 5:08pm

    Apolinari Tairo


    IN an apparent move to clarify the claim raised by the Kenya Association of Tour Operators over the blocked Bologonja border point, the Tanzania Tourist Board has said the controversial border crossing remains closed.
    The move by TTB to issue a statement over the weekend came shortly after Kenyan Association of Tour Operators issued a circular, to inform its members that the Bologonja gate in Serengeti National Park was open for tourists entering the famous park from Kenya.
    TTB's media advisory said that this was totally distorted information by KATO, that the Bologonja entry point was open for Kenyan tourists to pass through when coming to visit Serengeti National Park, Ngorongoro Conservation Area and other parks on the northern Tanzania tourist circuit.
    Through a circular issued and signed by KATO chief executive officer (CEO) Mr. Fred Kaigua, which was then sent as an e-mail messageto all KATO members, the KATO chief executive officer claimed that an agreement has been reached to open up Bologonja gate to allow tourists from Kenya to enter Serengeti through the Kenyan crossing of Sand River.
    He said in his circular to KATO members that the decision to open the Bologonja/Sand River crossing will dramatically reduce the travel time between Maasai Mara Game Reserve in Kenya and the Serengeti in Tanzania, and signify a new official border crossing between Kenya and Tanzania.
    The circular said that the new development in the opening of the Kenyan / Tanzania border was announced by Kenyan Minister for Wildlife and Tourism Mr. Najib Balala, after he obtained confirmation about the opening of the controversial tourist crossing border from immigration chiefs from both Kenya and Tanzania.
    "Our initial enquires to confirm the actual situation on the ground reveals that there is a full deployment of immigration staff on the Kenyan side at Sand River, whereas they are yet to be deployed on the Tanzanian side", reads part of the KATO message (circular) to its members.
    Responding to the Kenyan tourist operators' umbrella association's circular, TTB said in its statement that the e-mailed circular was misleading since there is no agreement of any kind reached to open the Bologonja / Sand River border point, a situation that would distort, confuse and create inconvenience to tourists visiting Serengeti in Tanzania and Maasai Mara in Kenya.
    The agreed and designated border point which is currently being used to cross by road from Maasai Mara to Serengeti is Isebania/Sirari outside the Serengeti National Park, which is now being commonly used by all tour operators from Tanzania and Kenya.
    "Tanzania Tourist Board would like to inform all diplomatic missions, within and overseas, tourist representatives, tour Operators, travel agents, operators of tourist accommodation establishments, transporters, tourists and the public, that the Sand River and Bologonja border crossing point connecting Maasai Mara Game Reserve in Kenya and Serengeti National Park in Tanzania is not open", read the media advisory.
    "We would like to see our esteemed clients noting that Tanzania has no intention of re-opening the Sand River/Bologonja border point. The entry point will remain closed for environmental reasons. The fragile ecosystem of the area which is a World Heritage Site cannot be sacrificed for the purpose of shortening the route between Maasai Mara and Serengeti National Parks", TTB said.
    The Board (TTB), which is Tanzania's official tourist promotion and marketing institution, further said tourists entering Tanzania should be transported through designated border posts or regional towns.
    "TTB wishes to inform all tourist agents and the public that, according to the Tourism Co-operation Agreement between the United Republic of Tanzania and the Republic of Kenya following the Arusha Summit Communique of November 16th, 1983, Article X(b), tourists shall be transported in and out of each country through designated border posts or regional towns", the advisory said.
    Current border crossing points which have been authorised by the two neighbouring countries are Namanga (Kenya and Tanzania), Sirari and Isebania, Holili and Taveta, and Horohoro and Lungalunga, from the Tanzanian and Kenyan sides respectively.
    http://theexpress.server295.com/node/250
     
  2. Bantugbro

    Bantugbro JF-Expert Member

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    Mmmh, hii nayo kali mzee!
     
  3. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Hapana,
    Si kwamba wanaonewa. Wenzetu katika utalii wametuzidi akili siku nyingi. Walikuwa wamezoea kuingia na watalii katika eneo la Tanzania kutokea Masai Mara na sasa huu mpaka utapoteza biashara hiyo.
     
  4. Wacha

    Wacha JF-Expert Member

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    Jasusi

    Sio kwamba wametuzidi akili, ni lazima uelewe kwamba hizo zilikuwa ni njama za western countries kuiumiza Tanzania kwa sababu ya kuwasaidia nchi za kusini mwa Afrika kukomboka. Hadi kesho pamoja na vurumai zinazotokea kenya na mauaji bado wakoloni wanamiliki ardhi kubwa kule Kenya. Western wanaona haya (soni) kwa sababu nchi zote walizozisaidia zina matatizo kuanzia Zaire - Congo, Malawi, Somalia, Kenya nk. Hawa walikuwa ni vibaraka na watendelea kuwa vibaraka kwa sababu ya kutukuza ngozi nyeupe. Huo ukoma wamemuambukiza JK.
     
  5. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Wacha,
    You've got a point there!
     
  6. Absolute

    Absolute JF-Expert Member

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    Yeah, we now atleast waking up-how about them selling kilimanjaro using Amboseli?
     
  7. eliakeem

    eliakeem JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona hili halina uhusiano na akili ya kujua utalii? Ukweli ni kuwa wale majirani wametawaliwa na akili ya kuiba iba na vitu vya mkato mkato. Kama alivyoeleza muanzilishi wa hii thread ni kila jirani wa kenya analalamika na kujuta mfano mzuri ni Sudan Kusini.
    Lakini nafurahi kwa hatua waliofikia SENAPA kwa suala hilo.
     
  8. eliakeem

    eliakeem JF-Expert Member

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    Umeeleza kitu cha msingi, hata Zimbabwe mambo hayaendi. Umenipa kitu kipya, ngoja nifanye utafiti zaidi.
     
  9. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

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    The border will be opened soon, there are a series of meetings taking place between the two tourist boards, so I think you are popping the champagne a little bit early. Dont forget we fully 'integrated' a few weeks ago, and judging by the difficulties that the rest of the community had in dragging you along with us, you wont play hard to get on this one. diplomacy will play its role and you will stay LOSING.

    By Wolfgang H. Thome, eTN Africa | Nov 02, 2009 A report in eTN in recent weeks to the effect, that the Tanzania Tourist Board has advised the Bologonja border between the Masai Mara and the Serengeti must remain closed, has attracted dozens of agitated mails, hot tempered and at times foul mouthed responses and explicit text messages to this correspondent, with most in favor of opening the border – including surprisingly many from Tanzania – and far less opposed to the move already announced in Kenya and then denounced in Tanzania last week.
    The border crossing at the Sand River, between the Keekorok Lodge in Kenya's Masai Mara and the Lobo Lodge in Tanzania's Serengeti, was in the old days a convenient way to attract safari tourists from overseas wishing to see all the main national parks by way of circuit. After the breakdown of the first East African Community in 1977 ALL border posts with Kenya were shut by Tanzania for several years, before in late 1984 cross border traffic was allowed to resume. This, however, was restricted to the main highway border crossing points, while the park border remained closed for commercial traffic but permitting individual travelers to cross with prior arrangements.
    As previously reported, this adds substantial extra cost on those safari packages which cover both the Serengeti and the Masai Mara, as tourists have to back track the entire way via Nairobi and/or Arusha to reach "the other side," a situation which in times of economic crisis and tight money simply cannot be explained away any longer. Most comments were not fit not to be repeated here, but all except seven were in favor of opening the border crossing once again. About the same ‘sample' was in agreement not to promote ‘one day trips' to the other side, but use the crossing for safaris, which then proceed onwards to other national parks in the respective countries. All the pro comments made however called in various terminology the environmental reasons advanced by the Tanzanian Tourist Board an "utterly misleading statement" and "willfully false."
    Official sources in Nairobi remained unusually quiet and non responsive over this development, probably not wanting to rock the boat ahead of the next East African Head of State Summit in November, where the agreements towards the common market protocol are due to be signed. Under these agreements the way could be paved to overrule the continued closure of the border post, but it is probably too early to make reliable predictions towards that end, knowing how a reluctant partner can quite deliberately, and for almost indefinite periods of time, delay final agreements. It is however understood from usually well-informed sources that intense consultations are ongoing between senior government figures to seek a way out of the far too public disagreement, news of which has gone around the world and caused considerable consternation in tourism circles.
    However, with other deliberate non tariff barriers still in place in regard for instance on aviation movements, amongst others, pressure will undoubtedly increase from the East African Community head quarters as well as affected other member states to resolve such issues on the fast track to avoid making the regular head of state unity announcements a laughing stock and become ridiculed over their divided stand on such obstacles to unity.






     
  10. bona

    bona JF-Expert Member

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    shida kubwa hawa wenzetu ubepari waliuanza zamani na sifa kubwa ya ubepari ni kupora isivyo vyako, kwao kule wao washaporwa kila kitu na wazungu ndio maana na wao inabidi wavamie majirani zao, kikubwa kinachoitaji attention ni bad guys from kenya with millitary weapons storming our banks, our homes, kule tarime wanakuja na AK7's kuiba ng'ombe, this is among the most powerful war assault rifle in the world, hata ili soko huru la east africa ni tumejipalia makaa tu, majambazi tu tunakaribisha yenye silaha za kivita, imagine pale ubungo ilivyokua as if it was baghdad neighbourhood!
     
  11. Ngongo

    Ngongo JF-Expert Member

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    Heshima kwako Smatta.

    Mkuu mtaendelea kusubiri sana Tanzania tayari imeshajua janja ya Kenya.Kwanini mnapenda kulazimisha vitu ambavyo kwa hali yoyote hamna mamlaka navyo ????????.kuanzisha EAC hana maana kwamba mtakuwa huru kutumia rasilimali za Tanzania jinsi mnavyotaka mbona Tanzania haina haja na Masaai mara,mlianza na masuala ya ardhi Tanzania ikastuka sasa mnakuja na mambo ya mbuga za wanyama mnafikiri tumelala subirini tu lakini kamwe Tanzania ya leo si ile ya Kambarage tunajua nini kina manufaa kwa Tanzania.
     
  12. Bujibuji

    Bujibuji JF-Expert Member

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    Wana yao hao wakenya, fitna zimewajaa mwili mzima
     
  13. eliakeem

    eliakeem JF-Expert Member

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    This Wolfgang article was made several weeks before the head of states have signed the accord. It does not carry any water becouse is full of unprofessional complains on the closure of the Golo. TANAPA and TTB have stipulated ecologically why shutting Golo.
    So for keen people like Tzans article ya Wolfgang haitunyimi usingizi.

    That is why, the construction of offices, staff houses and other improvements are now going on near the border (within 500M) and not 17 kM as used to be before, for the purpose of strengthening the security and fix all loopholes used by Knyns. Hatuogopi sijui cha protocal wala cha accord, sisi cha muhimu ni kulinda maslahi ya Tz na Tzns kwanza.

    We cant allow misuse of our nature, we are keeping it because we know the important of it. Hatufikirii pesa tu siku zote huku tukiharibu mazingira. Wasomi wetu wametushauri so we need for follow them.

    Again, a first para maintans that there is a negotiation going on between two Tourist Boards, i.e TTB and Knys, there is nothing known as negotiation between the parties. TTB after adviced on the fragility of the area by our ecologists finds that there is no need of having discussion on the thing that a result is well known. It will be like researching on the obvious, which gives the obvious findings. So in short there is no any negotiation between the parties. That is pure and simple.
     
  14. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

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    What it do E,
    Just came across that article and thought it would only be polite if I shared it, dint confirm the date or anything. If the closure of the border is meant to protect the wildlife (which move btw. the two countries freely FYI), then let it be enforced, there is no need for messing up the enviroment just to be a few million shillings richer, I feel you on that bro.
     
  15. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    Smatta,Eliakeem,Bujibuji,Geza Ulole,Ngongo,

    ..you can follow the whole saga in the article I have attached below.

    ..the pressure is now coming frm Members of Parliament that Golongoja border post should remain closed.

    ..after the head of states had signed the EAC agreement Kenyan Association of Tours Operators[KATO] announced to its members that the border at Golongoja has been opened.

    ..sasa hiyo circular ya KATO ndiyo imewasababisha TANAPA waondoe hiyo no mans land kati ya Serengeti na Maasai Mara and insist that the Bolongoja border will remain closed.

    ..there are more tourist attractions in Tanzania as compared to Kenya. tourist operators in Kenya should start thinking about moving their operations to Tanzania...

    ..

     
  16. m

    mjukuu2009 Member

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    Nashukuru mungu tumeanza kuamka kupitia TANAPA na ingependeza na Taasisi nyingine ziamke,kama TANAPA wameweza kuokoa fedha za kigeni nyingi zilizokuwa zinaliwa na wajanja toka KENYA ingependeza sana na Taasisi zinazo usika na madini zikaweza kuamka kama wenzao wa TANAPA kwa kuokoa madini yetu yanayopelekwa ulaya kwa kisingizio cha mchanga unaenda kupimwa contener nzima,kama ni mchanga kwanini wanaupa ulinzi mkali kiivyo,wewe miaka yote tokea wameanza kuchimba madini awajalete hiyo machine ya kupima mchanga apo Tanzania kwa nini????
    Mungu ibariki Tanzania.
     
  17. eliakeem

    eliakeem JF-Expert Member

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    Good discourse my bro Jokakuu. The piece writing widen my understanding on the issue. I think, it's better for me now to do further study on the matter so as to advice accordingly in our Jukwaa la Jamii (JF).
    Again, how do you find if you cite authority so as it can lead us in doing increased reading.

    I remain.
    eliakeem.
     
  18. B

    Bad Seed Member

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    Sometimes I fail to understand why Kenyans bother with Tanzania, we should just ignore each other, close all the borders, let our military guard all the entry point, and see who are the first ones to try and cross into the other country, and I propose the illegal immigrant be shot at sight.

    You have a false impression that Kenyans need Tanzanians so much, to some extent this might be true, we need you as markets for our finished products and services (and it doesnt matter if the industries are foreign owned, as long as it employs Kenyans, who am I to complain). All this EAC bullS** is simply accelerating our hatred towards each other.
     
  19. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    wewe ni ****** for sure hujui how things work wakifunga hiyo border utafanya biashara na nani wakati hata Uganda hawawataki! labda na Somalia on the North au Southern Sudan au Ethiopia who are unreliable na are dying of hunger themselves, and recently shot dead over 10 of your police! option itabaki kufanya biashara na Rwanda na Burundi ambao wana plan ya kujenga railway to connect with Tanzania just like Uganda is carefully wishing! So be carefully with what you wish! Hujiulizi vitu vidogo kama why a simple CECAFA tournament couldnt attract crowd in that Kenya of yours you chest with? People are broke there what remains is propaganda which eats your brain to make you uttering your arrogancy! If Tanzania border is closed my friend you will eat grasses, that one i am sure of cause your overseas exports are not that great as you sound todate you are continuing to export raw materials and a big junk of your GDP depends on service provision esp. to Uganda, Sothern Sudan Rwanda and Burundi! so where is that nonsense you talk about manufactured goods? Museveni is building a refinery in Uganda; he has oil and definitely he will supply to the rest of EA that makes you remain with serving Uganda's exports which if things go as planned they are to use Tanga port in the nearest future they just started with renovating their ferries in Lake Victoria! lets see whether your refinery in Mombasa will survive and lets see that port of yours will retain its dorminance in the region! You better pray cause the future looks dim to Kenya with Oil money Uganda are about to start benefiting!
     
  20. B

    Bad Seed Member

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    AHA.. you wanted me and my friends to go watch an uninteresting tournament after we were bungled out, i'd rather take a flight to SA and watch our Rugby sevens team play and drink good beer while at it, use your head to think. Your heart was broken when we dint show up for those matches huh? pole kama ni hivyo.

    Ati our export aren't good, stop coming up with thins from the top of your head, think, between the two countries, who exports more to other countries???? Thats not hard, just bing it if you cant think.
     
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