Hapo Mwanzo Palikuwa Na Nini?!...science Vs divinity

[Pundit]

Hapo mwanzo palikuwa na mwisho.

 

[Steve Dii]

Hapo mwanzo palikuwa na mwisho.

Aahuh, vizuri kuwa unajua hapo mwanzo palikuwa na mwisho. Sasa je Pundit, waweza kutueleza huo mwisho ulitokana na nini?...

Mfano, mwanzo huu ungelikuwa kama vile mishale ya saa yenye mishale miwili tu, kwa kwenda clockwise waweza semakuwa, mwanzo wa yote mishale yote ilikuwa imesimama kwenye 12, kisha ilikuwa dakika moja, kisha zikawa mbili, tatu na kadhalika, hadi pale ambapo mishale yote miwili ilizunguka na kukutana pale pale kwenye 12..

Vivyo hivyo, ukichukulia kwenda anticlockwise, waweza kuelezea jinsi dakika zilivyopita hadi kuufikia mwanzo, yaani penye alama hiyo ya 12.

Sasa je, ki mfumo wa ulimwengu kama jinsi vile nilivyo ashiria kwenye swali langu, waweza kuelezea huo mwisho either in a clockwise or anticlockwise analogical sense...Thanx!

SteveD.

 

[Pundit]

Sasa je Pundit, waweza kutueleza huo mwisho ulitokana na nini?.

What do you mean mwisho ulitokana na nini, mwisho ulitokana na mwanzo of course, the entire thing is cyclic, just like in the Vedas.

Big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch.

The idea is that the Universe will expand to a certain point and then will start to contract, entropy and time will begin to run backwards, space will contact upon itself just as it is expanding right now until everything goes back to a singularity just like it began in the big bang, once the singularity is reached another big bang will happen all over again.

At least according to the Penroses and Hawkins of this world this is our best explanation available.

But all this is highly speculative until they find out what is dark energy and dark matter and just how much of it is out there (currently estimated to make about 70% of all matter in the universe, so the entire periodic table makes about 30% of everything in the universe!) then they can reasonably calculate whether the universe will really collapse on itself in a big crunch or expand forever.

 

[Hollo]

Big bang model gives as mwanzo kulikuwa na nini!then baada ya formation ya earth ndo baadae life ikaanza katika hii dunia.
ok as it is beliaved the Earth is abt 4.5 billion yrs old,na life ilianza at abt 3.5 yrs ago as recoderd in fossils huko australia kwa mfano kuna formation inaitwa EDIACARAN.
sasa baada ya kuwa na hao cynobacteria wengi ambao wakatengeneza "Stromatolites structures" ambazo ndo zilikuwa able kuproduce oxygen ndo atleast kukawa na ATIMOSPHERE!life starts in water na only organisms ambazo zilikuwa zinaweza kuishi katika mazingira harsh ndo maana organisims wa kwanza kuishi walikuwa bacterias.
sasa Evolution ikaanza hadi kufikia binadamu ni long journey!
sasa from bacterias hadi kwenye samaki,then kwenye amphibians hadi kufikia kwenye Reptilia ambako ndo tunawakuta DINOSAURS!hadi kufa kwao kwenye K/T boundary.then tukafikia kwenye ndege then sasa ndo kwenye Mamalia ambako na sisi ndo tukajitokeza
ANY way As I BELIAVE IN GOD!naamini kuwa MUNGU ndo aliiumba Dunia kwa kutumia neno.So hapo MWANZO KULIKUWA NA MUNGU!NA KWA KUTUMIA NENO NDO AKAIUMBA DUNIA NA VYOTE VILIVYOMO KWA SIKU SITA!akiwa mwanadamu ndo wa mwisho
lakini pia ukiangalia vizuri mtiririko wa ORIGIN OF LIFE IN THE EARTH unafanana na Mtiririko jinsi MUNGU alivyouumba DUNIA maana hata katika GEOLOGICAL TIME binadamu ni youngest creature among others!
Nawasilisha!

 

[Pundit]

Big bang model gives as mwanzo kulikuwa na nini!then baada ya formation ya earth ndo baadae life ikaanza katika hii dunia.
ok as it is beliaved the Earth is abt 4.5 billion yrs old,na life ilianza at abt 3.5 yrs ago as recoderd in fossils huko australia kwa mfano kuna formation inaitwa EDIACARAN.
sasa baada ya kuwa na hao cynobacteria wengi ambao wakatengeneza "Stromatolites structures" ambazo ndo zilikuwa able kuproduce oxygen ndo atleast kukawa na ATIMOSPHERE!life starts in water na only organisms ambazo zilikuwa zinaweza kuishi katika mazingira harsh ndo maana organisims wa kwanza kuishi walikuwa bacterias.
sasa Evolution ikaanza hadi kufikia binadamu ni long journey!
sasa from bacterias hadi kwenye samaki,then kwenye amphibians hadi kufikia kwenye Reptilia ambako ndo tunawakuta DINOSAURS!hadi kufa kwao kwenye K/T boundary.then tukafikia kwenye ndege then sasa ndo kwenye Mamalia ambako na sisi ndo tukajitokeza
ANY way As I BELIAVE IN GOD!naamini kuwa MUNGU ndo aliiumba Dunia kwa kutumia neno.So hapo MWANZO KULIKUWA NA MUNGU!NA KWA KUTUMIA NENO NDO AKAIUMBA DUNIA NA VYOTE VILIVYOMO KWA SIKU SITA!akiwa mwanadamu ndo wa mwisho
lakini pia ukiangalia vizuri mtiririko wa ORIGIN OF LIFE IN THE EARTH unafanana na Mtiririko jinsi MUNGU alivyouumba DUNIA maana hata katika GEOLOGICAL TIME binadamu ni youngest creature among others!
Nawasilisha!

Huyo mungu mungu gani? Huyu wa biblia na Quran (personal) au wa Albert Einstein (impersonal) ?

 

[Hollo]

Huyo mungu mungu gani? Huyu wa biblia na Quran (personal) au wa Albert Einstein (impersonal) ?

Wa Biblia na Quran!unajua science can atleast prouve the origin of life and that of the earth!je what is the origin of DEATH?

 

[Pundit]

Wa Biblia na Quran!unajua science can atleast prouve the origin of life and that of the earth!je what is the origin of DEATH?

Mungu wa Bible / Quran kwangu ni a contradiction.

The origin of death is entropy, the second law of thermodymanics inaelezea jinsi kila kitu kinavyokongoroka kutoka ordered state to disordered state.

 

[Hollo]

Mungu wa Bible / Quran kwangu ni a contradiction.

The origin of death is entropy, the second law of thermodymanics inaelezea jinsi kila kitu kinavyokongoroka kutoka ordered state to disordered state.

ok hiyo second law mbona inasema entopy ya vitu ya vitu ambavyo ni isolated system it means here vitu ambavyo havipo in contact with environment!now the question is viumbe hai ni isolated system?
You should know that this law ndo imepose many problems for evolutionists
as it goes against with the theory of evulution

 

[Pundit]

ok hiyo second law mbona inasema entopy ya vitu ya vitu ambavyo ni isolated system it means here vitu ambavyo havipo in contact with environment!now the question is viumbe hai ni isolated system?
You should know that this law ndo imepose many problems for evolutionists
as it goes against with the theory of evulution

Tunaongelea kifo,

The closed system factor is a lab environment to provide control for the experiment.It is like how in economic theory everything is prefaced by "ceteris paribus" because otherwise it would be chaos to explain economic phenomena, or in physics, to capture the essence of physical phenomena most accurately experiments are done under "Standard temperature and Pressure" (STP).If you are not using STP temperature and pressure may interfere with your observation, but that does not mean the essence of physical phenomena is changed.If you apply an upward pressure of g on a coin the coin may float but that does not mean it is weightless.

So the closed system part of the theory of thermodynamics is simplifying observation.Essentially it is like telling you that all cars need fuel, but to observe that you should let your car run without refuelling (closed system) because if you maintain an open system where you can refuel you may never notice fuel running out and your car coming to a standstill because it needs fuel.

The basic idea behind the second law of thermodynamics is that as the arrow of time moves forward all things decay and work is needed to maintain them, and even with work eventually everything, including the universe itself, will die.

Anayesema kwamba second law of thermodynamics ina pose a problem for evolutionist (umesoma wikipedia?) haelewi basic nature ya evolution na ana assume kwamba evolution is puposeful.Evolution is based on chance and not purpose.ingekuwa evolution iko based kwenye purpose ya the subject, then ungeweza kusema how come sisi tuko hapa wakati vitu vinatakiwa kutoka kwenye ordered state kwenda kwenye disordered state.We are here by a fluke of chance.

Ukiangalia mutations utaona the bulk of mutations are not good for evolution - cancer, drug resistant bacteria etc- lakini katika hizo mutations zote ziko chache zinazokuwa useful for evolution.The beauty of evolution is that it thrives on the few that are advantageous to it.

 

[Chuma]

Hii mada nzuri ikiwa watu tutakuwa na fikra za kutaka mabadiliko ya namna tunavyofikiri....na hii ndio deviation kubwa kati ya wanao AMINI DINI na Kuwepo kwa Muumba na wale wanaojiita ATHEIST...wasioamin M/Mungu....

Wale wasioamini M/Mungu wamekuwa wakitumia kigezo cha Sayansi kukana kuwepo M/Mungu...eti kwasababu sayansi haijathibitisha kuwepo M/Mungu....zipo Hoja nyingi dhaifu ambazo zimekuwa zikitolewa na madalali wa sayansi
1. Wanaodai kuwa sayansi haijathibitisha kuwa M/Mungu yupo, logically, Sayansi haijakanusha kuwa M/Mungu Hayupo...

2.Hapa wamekuwa wakitumia Sense of Organs kuthibitisa hilo, moja wapo wamesema M/Mungu Hayupo kwa kuwa Haonekani...Hoja hii dhaifu kwa kuwa sense organs zenyewe zina udhaifu mwingi. kiasi ambacho kwa udhaifu wake sense of organs zenyewe "Pekee" hatuziwezi kuzitumika kujua M/Mungu yupo
Mfano moja wapo wa macho...Angalia mfano huu...ukiwa ktk barabara yenye lami au Jangwani....wakati wa JUA KALI....kwa mbali yako utaona kama kuna MAJI, ukifika mahala hapo HUKUTI maji...(Mirage)...maana yake macho hayatupi taswira halisi ya vitu vilivyopo hapa Duniani...
Madhaifu mengine ya sense of organs yapo mengi...

nikipata wasaa wa kupata data ntazimwaga...

 

[Pundit]

1. Wanaodai kuwa sayansi haijathibitisha kuwa M/Mungu yupo, logically, Sayansi haijakanusha kuwa M/Mungu Hayupo...

Hii ni wrong approach, kwenye sayansi huwezi kuthibitisha kwamba kitu hakipo, unathibitisha kwamba kitu kipo.Kuthibitisha kwamba kitu hakipo inabidi ufanye experiments zote kwa kutumia configurations zote, huwezi kufanya hivyo.Kuthibithisha kitu kipo inabidi ufanye experiment angalau mbili zitakazo kuonyesha kuwa kitu kipo.

2.Hapa wamekuwa wakitumia Sense of Organs kuthibitisa hilo, moja wapo wamesema M/Mungu Hayupo kwa kuwa Haonekani...Hoja hii dhaifu kwa kuwa sense organs zenyewe zina udhaifu mwingi. kiasi ambacho kwa udhaifu wake sense of organs zenyewe "Pekee" hatuziwezi kuzitumika kujua M/Mungu yupo
Mfano moja wapo wa macho...Angalia mfano huu...ukiwa ktk barabara yenye lami au Jangwani....wakati wa JUA KALI....kwa mbali yako utaona kama kuna MAJI, ukifika mahala hapo HUKUTI maji...(Mirage)...maana yake macho hayatupi taswira halisi ya vitu vilivyopo hapa Duniani...
Madhaifu mengine ya sense of organs yapo mengi...

nikipata wasaa wa kupata data ntazimwaga...

Wanasayansi gani hao unaowangelea? Wanasayansi wa kweli wanaelewa kuwa observation lazima iende deeper kuliko sensory organs.

Kuna mtu hakujua kama kuna sayari zaidi ya hizi zinazozunguka nyota yetu (jua), akaletewa ushahidi kwamba kuna sayari zinazozunguka nyota nyingine, ushahidi ambao umepatikana kwa kutumia observatiuon ya effects za hizo sayari, na siyo kwa kuziona sayari zenyewe, radio astronomy and spectronomy is largely based on this sort of evidence.the gas helium was first discovered on the sun before it was discovered on earth because of this type of observation.

So no, we need not see god, just show conclusive evidence that he is out there and we will take it.So far in history, everything that was ascribed to god is slowly turning out to be ascribed so because of human ignorance, the more we know about the universe the more we know that we made god to explain the unexplainable just like the ancients used to say lightning, thunder and eclipses was phenomena due to god getting angry at us, now we can explain these things without needing a direct hand of god.

As time moves on we will be able to explain even more.

the beauty of science is not that it has an answer to everything, no, the beauty is in the process.that scientists can question each other with no fear of a dogmatic backlash, that information is verified by peers before being accepted.

Religion as it exist now and a dogmatic god centred structure can never match that in a million millennia.

 

[Hollo]

Tunaongelea kifo,

The closed system factor is a lab environment to provide control for the experiment.It is like how in economic theory everything is prefaced by "ceteris paribus" because otherwise it would be chaos to explain economic phenomena, or in physics, to capture the essence of physical phenomena most accurately experiments are done under "Standard temperature and Pressure" (STP).If you are not using STP temperature and pressure may interfere with your observation, but that does not mean the essence of physical phenomena is changed.If you apply an upward pressure of g on a coin the coin may float but that does not mean it is weightless.

So the closed system part of the theory of thermodynamics is simplifying observation.Essentially it is like telling you that all cars need fuel, but to observe that you should let your car run without refuelling (closed system) because if you maintain an open system where you can refuel you may never notice fuel running out and your car coming to a standstill because it needs fuel.

The basic idea behind the second law of thermodynamics is that as the arrow of time moves forward all things decay and work is needed to maintain them, and even with work eventually everything, including the universe itself, will die.

Anayesema kwamba second law of thermodynamics ina pose a problem for evolutionist (umesoma wikipedia?) haelewi basic nature ya evolution na ana assume kwamba evolution is puposeful.Evolution is based on chance and not purpose.ingekuwa evolution iko based kwenye purpose ya the subject, then ungeweza kusema how come sisi tuko hapa wakati vitu vinatakiwa kutoka kwenye ordered state kwenda kwenye disordered state.We are here by a fluke of chance.

Ukiangalia mutations utaona the bulk of mutations are not good for evolution - cancer, drug resistant bacteria etc- lakini katika hizo mutations zote ziko chache zinazokuwa useful for evolution.The beauty of evolution is that it thrives on the few that are advantageous to it.

Nakupata swali langu ni je viumbe hai ni randomness?maana as the law indicates that disordering is constantly increasing!as far as i knowThe laws of Thermodynamics do not agree with evolution. law of entropy state the more time passes the greater disorder gets. Yet scientists say the more time passess the more orderly things become. As you believe that the source of death is increasing of disorders then toka Dunia iwepo kusingekuwa na viumbe!ina maana wote tungekuwa tumekufa ila kwa kweli mimi i do not buy the implications of the second law of thermodynamic katika suala la kifo!

 

[Pundit]

Nakupata swali langu ni je viumbe hai ni randomness?maana as the law indicates that disordering is constantly increasing!as far as i knowThe laws of Thermodynamics do not agree with evolution. law of entropy state the more time passes the greater disorder gets. Yet scientists say the more time passess the more orderly things become. As you believe that the source of death is increasing of disorders then toka Dunia iwepo kusingekuwa na viumbe!ina maana wote tungekuwa tumekufa ila kwa kweli mimi i do not buy the implications of the second law of thermodynamic katika suala la kifo!

Hukunipata,

Nilichosema ni kwamba, ni kweli kwamba the more time passes under general circumstances the more disorderly things get.Ndiyo maana tunaoga, kufua na kufagia kwa sababu usipoji keep clean utanuka, nguo zako zitakuwa chafu na chumba chako kitakuwa na buibui.

Kwenye natural world nako ni hivyo hivyo, kila siku kunatokea random mutations.Random mutations hizi on the whole zinasababisha mambo yatoke kwenye order kwenda kwenye disorder (mfano wa cancer).

Anayesema kwamba second law of thermodynamics inapingana na evolution (time to correct wikipedia now) anakuwa anafikiri kwamba evolution huwa inaanza na specific goal.kwamba evolution ina aim kutoka bacteria kwenda kuwa mammalia, hasha!.

Evolution inatokea kwa chnce events.Ila kwa sababu ya concept ya "survival of the fittest", kama unaanza na bacteria 100, halafu 99 wakamutate in a self destructive ways according to the second law of thermodynamics, na mmoja tu ndiye aka mutate in a positive way to enble asexual reproduction, basi atakayeendelea katika evolution ni huyu mmoja na wala si wale 99.Ndiyo maana evolution is a very slow process taking billions of years.Hii ni chance event.The fact kwamba huyu mmoja ame survive na wale 99 wamekufa haiko contrary to the second law of thermodynamics, inaonyesha tu kwamba it takes one chance in 99 to defy the second law of thermodynamics.na hata huyo mmoja atakaye triumph momentarily the best he can do is pass his genes kwa sababu eventually the second law of thermodynamics will catch up na yeye atakufa tu, hata kama ni kwa old age.

there is no system with 100% efficiency, some energy will escape as heat, sound etc.If you do not renew the energy the energy will trickle out until there is no more energy.Even if you renew the energy, eventually the system will boggle down due to wear and tear.

That is the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[Mama]

hala hala jamani mti na macho, bora kuamini Mungu yupo na usipomkuta huko kuzimu hakuna utakachokuwa umepoteza, usipoamini Mungu yupo na ukamkuta sijui utamwambia nini. Si Sayansi wala dini zinazoweza kuprove kuwa Mungu hayupo ama yupo respectively, bali dalili kuwa hayupo ama yupo ndio zinatumika kujenga hoja.

 

[Mbu]

Interesting Subject!

...siwalaumu wale wenye 'kuliabudu' jua, atleat linaonekana na mafao yake hapa duniani na kwenye sayari nyingine kwenye hii solar system tunayohesabu sayari (ngapi vile?) kumi na moja eeh?

I really don't want to imagine, siku moja jua 'limezimika', au kupoteza nguvu yake ya uvutano kiasi sayari zote kuparaganyika juu chini au zingine kuacha kuzunguka kwa kasi zao za kawaida, imagine dunia badala ya kuzunguka kwenye mhimili wake kwa masaa 24, kasi inapungua na kulizunguka jua kwa masaa 72 au zaidi..., au kulizunguka jua kwa zaidi ya siku duh!...

Jua ndio kila kitu, usiku na mchana, mazao, afya, maisha, majira ya mwaka i.e masika, theluji, kiangazi, mafuriko, etc etc... Jua ndio Uhai, na maisha, labda ndio mwanzo pia (?)

useful reading;

Try and define God as simply as you can?
Here is my attempt.
"The most tangible and powerful force effecting the physiology, psychology, and ultimately the existence and extinction of mankind and life on Earth".

Now try to define the Sun without stating how it is made up.
Er.... Umm...... uncanny!
Sunworshippers do not claim to be a religion, religious cult, brotherhood, sisterhood, or pagan coven. We are head over heals about the religious diversity on our planet.

source; http://www.sunworshippers.org/

 

[Pundit]

hala hala jamani mtu na macho, bora kuamini Mungu yupo na usipomkuta huko kuzimu, usipoamini Mungu yupo na ukamkuta sijui utamwambia nini. Si Sayansi wala dini zinazoweza kuprove kuwa Mungu hayupo ama yupo respectively, bali dalili kuwa hayupo ama yupo ndio zinatumika kujenga hoja.

Mama,

Hizi habari za bora kuamini kama insurance policy zinafaa sana kama unaongelea kubeba mwamvuli, kwamba bora nibebe mwamvuli halafu nje mvua isiwepo kuliko nikaacha kubeba halafu nje kukawa na mvua.

Lakini unapoongelea msingi wa maisha unakuwa unai cheapen idea nzima ya umungu.Hata mimi ningekuwa mungu ningewaona watu "wanaoamini" mungu ili tu wasinyeshewe na mvua (ya moto) kuwa ni self serving, na ningewaona si tofauti na wasioamini.

Mimi siamini mungu kwa sababu sina sababu ya kuamini.Kama yupo na ni fair atanielewa na kunisamehe kwa sababu hakunipa sababu za kutosha za kuamini kwamba yupo.

 

[Mama]

Mama,

Hizi habari za bora kuamini kama insurance policy zinafaa sana kama unaongelea kubeba mwamvuli, kwamba bora nibebe mwamvuli halafu nje mvua isiwepo kuliko nikaacha kubeba halafu nje kukawa na mvua.

Lakini unapoongelea msingi wa maisha unakuwa unai cheapen idea nzima ya umungu.Hata mimi ningekuwa mungu ningewaona watu "wanaoamini" mungu ili tu wasinyeshewe na mvua (ya moto) kuwa ni self serving, na ningewaona si tofauti na wasioamini.

Mimi siamini mungu kwa sababu sina sababu ya kuamini.Kama yupo na ni fair atanielewa na kunisamehe kwa sababu hakunipa sababu za kutosha za kuamini kwamba yupo.

hapo unakwenda mbali, nakushauri nenda utubie hapo ulipo, amini Mungu yupo ila usiwaamini wanaokuambia kuna dini ya kweli au dini y uongo. Science is about thoughts which help to formulate hypotheses, which are tested some empirically, to get results ewhich are tested to support or reject the hypotheses. Science is all man made. God is not man made, is the almighty so better believe. You can meditate to help you beleieve in God if you have ever suffered the syndrome of not believing in existence of God.

 

[Pundit]

hapo unakwenda mbali, nakushauri nenda utubie hapo ulipo, amini Mungu yupo ila usiwaamini wanaokuambia kuna dini ya kweli au dini y uongo. Science is about thoughts which help to formulate hypotheses, which are tested some empirically, to get results ewhich are tested to support or reject the hypotheses. Science is all man made. God is not man made, is the almighty so better believe. You can meditate to help you beleieve in God if you have ever suffered the syndrome of not believing in existence of God.

Mama,

Sitaki kuamini, nataka kujua.

 

[Hollo]

Hukunipata,

Nilichosema ni kwamba, ni kweli kwamba the more time passes under general circumstances the more disorderly things get.Ndiyo maana tunaoga, kufua na kufagia kwa sababu usipoji keep clean utanuka, nguo zako zitakuwa chafu na chumba chako kitakuwa na buibui.

Kwenye natural world nako ni hivyo hivyo, kila siku kunatokea random mutations.Random mutations hizi on the whole zinasababisha mambo yatoke kwenye order kwenda kwenye disorder (mfano wa cancer).

Anayesema kwamba second law of thermodynamics inapingana na evolution (time to correct wikipedia now) anakuwa anafikiri kwamba evolution huwa inaanza na specific goal.kwamba evolution ina aim kutoka bacteria kwenda kuwa mammalia, hasha!.

Evolution inatokea kwa chnce events.Ila kwa sababu ya concept ya "survival of the fittest", kama unaanza na bacteria 100, halafu 99 wakamutate in a self destructive ways according to the second law of thermodynamics, na mmoja tu ndiye aka mutate in a positive way to enble asexual reproduction, basi atakayeendelea katika evolution ni huyu mmoja na wala si wale 99.Ndiyo maana evolution is a very slow process taking billions of years.Hii ni chance event.The fact kwamba huyu mmoja ame survive na wale 99 wamekufa haiko contrary to the second law of thermodynamics, inaonyesha tu kwamba it takes one chance in 99 to defy the second law of thermodynamics.na hata huyo mmoja atakaye triumph momentarily the best he can do is pass his genes kwa sababu eventually the second law of thermodynamics will catch up na yeye atakufa tu, hata kama ni kwa old age.

there is no system with 100% efficiency, some energy will escape as heat, sound etc.If you do not renew the energy the energy will trickle out until there is no more energy.Even if you renew the energy, eventually the system will boggle down due to wear and tear.

That is the second law of thermodynamics.

naomba kuuliza swali?nani walikuwa wakwanza kuishi katika hii dunia?maisha katika hii dunia hayakufuata mtiririko?

 

[Mama]

Mama,

Sitaki kuamini, nataka kujua.

kujua huwezi kujua kwa vile hata electron,netrons na protons hujawahi zijua unaamini tu kuwa zinaexist.