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Good Guys Finish Last: If you Can't Beat them, Should you Join them?

Discussion in 'Biashara, Uchumi na Ujasiriamali' started by VoiceOfReason, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Jul 28, 2011
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    Can you succeed in an unfair game by playing fair?
    • Je ni busara kuacha kulipa rushwa wakati ungelipa kazi yako inanyooka?
    • Kuacha kutoa 10% wakati usipotoa haupati tender?
    • Kuacha kuchezea invoice na kupunguza gharama ya mizigo hence kulipa ushuru kidogo wakati competitors wako wanafanya hivyo?
    In short can you succeed in Business by playing fair ?: au ni ulimbukeni kuacha kutumia loopholes....

    Is being ruthless na kutumia maujanja as well as kutumia shortcuts part of business?
     
  2. Husninyo

    Husninyo JF-Expert Member

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    Yes u can succeed VOR hata ukiwa fair, hebu fikiria mtu anayekwepa kulipa kodi ya biashara ambayo ipo ndani ya uwezo wake ila ikitokea ametembelewa na TRA mara kwa mara hujikuta anatoa rushwa kubwa kuliko kodi anayoikwepa.

    Unapocheza rough katika b'ness kuna uwezekano hata hyo b'ness isifanikiwe.
    Utakuwa ni mtu wa kutoa rushwa tu na wakati hzo pesa ungeweza kuzireinvest, biashara yako pia inakuwa katika risk zaidi.
     
  3. AshaDii

    AshaDii Platinum Member

    #3
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    Katika ku succeed kuna two groups...

    1. You want to succeed so as to have a good sustainable life... Hapa you play fair and be a good guy.
    2. You want to succeed to go beyond and live a mark katika life... i.e. Bill Gates way... Lazima uwe kauzu! lazima ufanye yoote matatu ulo point out.
     
  4. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Jul 29, 2011
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    Nadhani hapa inategemea na aina ya biashara unayofanya, kama unatengeneza kitu (talent au creativity yako) basi nadhani unaweza ukafanikiwa kwa kuwa fair (sababu labda ujuzi wako unafanya product yako iwe bora kuliko mpinzani)

    Sasa swali linakuja kwenye zile kazi mfano Tender (ambayo huwezi kupata bila 10% hata kama product yako ni bora zaidi ) au mnaponunua product from A (mfano China au nchi za nje) wewe unalipa ushuru na kufata njia zote za haki, hapa mwenzako ana uwezo wa kuuza bidhaa kwa bei ndogo zaidi na bado akapata profit wewe utawezaje?

    Labda kuna kazi za kuwa fair and good na nyingine zinahitaji uwe ruthless na kutokuwa hivyo ni kutokujitendea haki
     
  5. Keren_Happuch

    Keren_Happuch JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Jul 29, 2011
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    It is possible VOR, ............Inapendeza sana ukiangalia mafanikio yako, ujisikie vizuri kwamba imetokana na juhudi yangu, na sio vinginevyo!
     
  6. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Nadhani hata Bill Gates angeweze aka-succeed kwa kuwa fair (ingawa sidhani kama amekuwa fair, jinsi alivyopata software yake na monopoly yake) Sababu anayo product ambayo ni famous na ni vigumu kwa mtu mwingine kuingia kwenye hii biashara kwa haraka labda kama akija na better product.

    Mfano kama nyote mna same business na mnafanya mwenzako anakata shortcut wewe unaweza ukafaulu kwa kutokukata shortcut ?; Na hapa sisemi the likes of "Al Capone" sababu huyu jamaa ulikuwa ukiingia kwenye biashara unayofanya either analipua biashara yako au unapata ajali ya ya ghafla...

    Hapana sisemi hivyo ila nachosema (tricks of the trade) kama wengine wanazifanya kama wewe huwezi kuzifanya ni bora utafute kazi nyingine
     
  7. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

    #7
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    Ni kweli unalosema, lakini naona jambo bora ni kuchagua kazi ya kuifanya na kuna kazi ambazo 10% ni part ya hiyo kazi na inabidi mtu ujue hivyo tangia mwanzo.., mfano kama vitani silaha, kujeruhi na kuua is part of the Job, huenda sasa Tanzania kupata Tender 10% is part of the job.
     
  8. Keren_Happuch

    Keren_Happuch JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa kweli kuna umuhimu kabisa wa kuchagua kazi............japokuwa hiyo nayo ni changamoto. Ninatamani kama watu wote wangetamani kuifanya haki, maana HAKI HUINUA TAIFA, bali RUSHWA HUPOFUSHA MACHO.......TZ yetu isingekuwa mahali ilipo sasa............hata tatizo la umeme lisingekuwepo.................
     
  9. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

    #9
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    Kweli kabisa kuna mambo ambayo huwezi kuyafanya peke yako inabidi wote muyafanye.., sasa swali linakuja kama kila mtu anakwenda kushoto wewe peke yako utakwenda kulia..?, au ni busara kuwafata huko kulia wanakuoenda ili na wewe mkono uende kwenye kinywa,

    Alafu issue ya kuchagua kazi vipi kama kazi yako umekuwa ukiifanya kwa muda mrefu kwa haki na imejitokeza kwamba jamaa anakwambia kwamba sasa bila kunikatia faida kidogo kazi basi sikupi tender tena..., Je utafunga kiwanda na kubadilisha kazi? au inabidi binadamu tubadilike kulingana na wakati...., au ule msemo wa "ya Kaisari tumuachie Kaisari"... Je Rushwa na 10% ni part ya"ya Kaisari" katika Business?
     
  10. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

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    Jul 29, 2011
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    Kweli ni uzembe kwa macho ya wafisadi but internaly unajihisi kua juu ya hao wote sabau they wouldn't compete ikiwa watanyo'oka kama wewe.
    Ukiendekeza rushwa una haribu system nzima, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Ukijikatalia rushwa (kutoa au kupokea) unaonekana mzembe ila kwa macho yako mwenyewe na kwa macho ya the poor you are a hero sababu unataka ku-destroy the system.
     
  11. Keren_Happuch

    Keren_Happuch JF-Expert Member

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    Kama ni suala la kupeleka mkono kinywani, kwa kweli sitawafuata. Hilo swala la 10% kwa kweli hata mimi sijui, japokuwa inaonekana kama limehalaliswa hivi....kwa kweli ni changamoto sana kwetu sisi ambao tunaipenda haki...........
     
  12. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Am Afraid that is the case..., The Rich will Always get Richer and the Poor will get Poorer.., hio ndio system ilivyo (na system ya sasa Rushwa ni part and parcel)

    Hata kama wewe ni masikini.., ebu ngoja nikuulize swali...? Je kama kuna shule nzuri ambayo unataka mtoto wako asome, Je hautatoa rushwa kama rushwa itahakikisha kupata kwake nafasi katika hio shule?, au kufata kwako sheria kutapelekea wewe kumyanganya haki mtoto wako wa kusoma shule nzuri ?
     
  13. Mentor

    Mentor JF-Expert Member

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    Dada,
    I believe you can have number 2 with number 1 methods!!!
     
  14. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu ingawa jibu ni la mwingine ngoja nijibu.., ni kweli unaweza ukafanikiwa katika shughuli bila kuvunja sheria na kuwa fair (depends what is fair) Je kuwa fair ni kumpa mkulima pesa ya mahindi anayostahili au ni kufata market price..?; Inategemea na kitengo gani unafanya kazi na ni biashara gani unafanya.., For instance kama wewe ni manufacture wa product unaweza ukawa fair sababu product ni yako na kama hakuna competition kubwa (na kuwa kwako fair kuwalipa wafanyazi mishahara mikubwa wakati wenzako na wachina wanalipa peanuts je utacompete, katika hiyo biashara...)

    Kama kuna loopholes wenzako wanazifata hakuna jinsi wewe utakavyoweza ku-survive bila kufata hizo loopholes wakati wenzako wanatumia kila mbinu wewe unatumia nusu ya mbinu hizo..., its only natural kwamba wewe unakuwa second best
     
  15. Da Womanizer

    Da Womanizer JF-Expert Member

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    VOR nakukubali sana mkuu, una mada ambazo kwa kweli zinafikirisha sana na zinahitaji mtu ajipange hasa ili kutoa majibu yenye mashiko.

    My take:
    Kama unamuamini Mungu hakuna kisichowezekana, unaweza kutengeneza Empire kubwa kuliko unavyofikiria. Hata hivyo katika dunia ya leo ambayo watu wanaamini katika ku-shape your own destiny and twisting fate nadhani jibu utakalopata kutoka kwa wengi wetu ni kuwa it is virtually impossible to succeed to the likes of Bill Gates if you do not play dirty.
     
  16. AshaDii

    AshaDii Platinum Member

    #16
    Jul 29, 2011
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    VOR I really try to be realistic in most cases thus mimi kusema the below sio kwamba na support but ndio ukweli usiopingika….

    Mtu ambae anataka ku succeed to a tycoon level ya kua enlisted katika wale wababe wa the likes of Forbes hawezi kabisa kufanikiwa without dirtin his/her hands or bila hayo matatu kufanywa… mhusika anaweza akapunguza moja ya hayo but lazima moja ifanywe hapo… for ukweli ni kwamba hio success inafanywa katika society.. na access ya most related development related aspect ziko very slow na very corrupt.. Na in most cases hawa wahusika wako very much time conscious….

    Kuhusu ili swali lako "Mfano kama nyote mna same business na mnafanya mwenzako anakata shortcut wewe unaweza ukafaulu kwa kutokukata shortcut ?" NDIO unafaulu but it takes you time… na by the time uweze achieve kama Yule wa short cut yeye tayari kafika mbali…

    Labda VOR hebu nipe mfano wa tycoon ambae unaona hafanyi/hakufanya short cut…
     
  17. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Jul 30, 2011
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    I am just trying to be a devils advocate hapa na kuangalia points upande mwingine wa shilingi lakini my belief ni kwamba kama nyote mnacheza kwenye uwanja mmoja (society) na wenzako wanatumia any means necessary (wewe huwezi kushindana nao kwa kutumia mbinu pungufu na hapo)...

    Unless una product ambayo ni unique na hakuna mtu anaweza ku-imitate hapo ndio utapata luxury ya kuwa fair (na hata hapo huenda ukaitaji lobbying ya wanasiasa ili wasikupige kodi za kufa mtu...

    Kwa hiyo in short ni kwamba in an unfair world you can not exceed the achievements of those playing unfair by being fair..., Nadhani wote tunakubaliana....

    Kwa mfano wa Gates huenda asingefanya haya asingefanikiwa (kwahiyo sijui kama kwa kufanya haya alikuwa fair or not:-
    • Software ya kwanza DOS (sababu haikuwa yake na alifanya deal na IBM hata kabla hajainunua kwa mwenye software, na aliinunua very cheap)
    • Kuwatime apple na Graphical user interface kwenye windows
    • Zile kesi ambazo America walitaka kuivunja Microsoft ziwe kampuni tofauti sababu ya monopoly lazima alitembeza mlungula...
    Kwahiyo kufanikiwa kwa kuwa fair labda uwe babu wa Loliondo na uje dawa ya kutibu watu ambayo kila mtu anahiitaji
     
  18. AshaDii

    AshaDii Platinum Member

    #18
    Aug 3, 2011
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    Being a devils advocate toaday is a relative term VOR... Maana wanadamu wamehalalisha mengi mno ambayo kwa kweli yalikua katika hali ya kawaisa yanakua considered kama immoral katika jamii... Bahati nzuri au mbaya naona we are on the same side and completely agree with your stand thus hata cha kuongeza naona sina... ila tu nilipenda nikutane na anae amani waweza kua Tycoon bila ukauzu woote uhusiayo kuendelea...
     
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