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God not needed for creation: Stephen Hawking

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Ab-Titchaz, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    [​IMG]


    LONDON - Did creation need a creator?

    British physicist and mathematician Stephen Hawking says no, arguing in his new book that there need not be a God behind the creation of the universe.

    The concept is explored in "The Grand Design," excerpts of which were printed in the British newspaper The Times on Thursday. The book, written with fellow physicist Leonard Mlodinow, is scheduled to be published by Bantam Press on Sept. 9.

    "The Grand Design," which the publishers call Hawking's first major work in nearly a decade, challenges Isaac Newton's theory God must have been involved in creation because our solar system couldn't have come out of chaos simply through nature.

    But Hawking says it isn't that simple. To understand the universe, it's necessary to know both how and why it behaves the way it does, calling the pursuit "the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything."

    "We shall attempt to answer it in this book," he wrote. "Unlike the answer given in 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,' ours won't be simply '42.'"
    The number 42 is the deliberately absurd answer to the "Ultimate Question" chosen by sci-fi author Douglas Adams.

    Hawking, who is renowned for his work on black holes, said the 1992 discovery of another planet orbiting a star other than the sun makes "the coincidences of our planetary conditions ... far less remarkable and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings."

    In his best-selling 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," Hawking appeared to accept the possibility of a creator, saying the discovery of a complete theory would "be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we should know the mind of God."

    But "The Grand Design" seems to step away from that, saying physics can explain things without the need for a "benevolent creator who made the Universe for our benefit."

    "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing," the excerpt says. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to ... set the Universe going."

    Hawking retired last year as the Lucasian Chair of Mathematics at Cambridge University after 30 years in the position. The position was once held by Newton


    Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation



    http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Design-Stephen-Hawking/dp/0739344269
     
  2. Kiby

    Kiby JF-Expert Member

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    We human being need not Stephen H explanation to survive,neither Nature need not scintific research for its existance.
    God is only hope for our destination.
     
  3. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    He has a point, the theory of God is just too frivolous to be considered feasible in the creation of the whole universe, I never understand why people (especially people in the third world such as Africa) insist on believing in God, the religion of this so called God wasn't even yours (Africans) to begin with and the people who brought this ass of a God are now becoming secular, they are discarding him/her as the rubbish that he/she is, I can't understand why it's so hard for you people to embrace FREE THINKING .:smile-big:
     
  4. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    Mr Hawking is not saying there is 'no God' but that God is not needed for creation to occur. The earth
    could have simply created it self with God as a bystander so to speak.

    In regards to not understanding why people in the 3rd world insist on believing in God, I believe the
    phrase 'to each his own' can explain that.
     
  5. a

    asagulaga Member

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    Hii ni kufuru.
     
  6. Kipala

    Kipala JF-Expert Member

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    Kulalamika vile haisaidii kitu.

    Sentensi muhimu kwa Hawkins ni "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing,"
    Kama Bw. Hawkins angezoea kidogo majadiliano ya theolojia na falsafa angejua ya kwamba jibu hili halitaridhika.
    Maana anatulia ile "sheria ya graviti iko". Ila tu tangu swali linabaki: Kwa nini iko? Imetoka wapi? Kifalsafa kwangu hapa swali la Mungu au "sheria ya ulimwengu" inarudi kwa lazima.

    Anajaribu shortcut inayojulikana tangu karne nyingi (miaka 500 kabla ya Yesu mwanafalsa Mgiriki alijaribu kumweleza Mungu kama "msogeaji asiyesogezeka wa kwanza". Biblia inajaribu lugha ya "alfa na omega, mwanzo na mwisho".

     
  7. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

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    I cant believe son just ethered God, you serious you dont beleive in the man upstairs?
     
  8. A

    Alpha JF-Expert Member

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    You think everybody believes in that nonsense?
     
  9. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    The bit in the beginning of my first post was the only part relevant to the topic, I will quote myself, "He has a point, the theory of God is just too frivolous to be considered feasible in the creation of the whole universe," Hence to me physics can solve the creation theory and I'm sure Mr.Hawking believes as much.
    The rest of my post was my personal opinion on the existence of God and how it irks me to no end that Africans have to be so caught up in such rubbish, as if we weren't in the dark ages already we just had to add to our plight by believing in a ridiculous being who was non existent in most parts of the continent less than a century ago.
     
  10. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    Yep ni kufuru, I'm sure I'll be burning next to you in the eternal imaginary fires of the fairytale place you call hell.
     
  11. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Huwezi kusema gravity imetoka kwa mungu bila kuonyesha hivyo. So far sijaonyesha mtu yeyote aliyeweza kuonyesha hilo. Kama ungemsoma vizuri Hawking -mimi nimemfuatilia kwa kitambo- ungeona alichosema kuhusu spontaneity. Ukisoma sana quantum physics hata cause and effect inavunjika.

    Hawking katika "A Brief History of Time" alimaliza kwa kuuliza je "mungu" ( by the way "mungu" si lazima awe a personal god, kuna watu wanachukulia sheria za physics au symmetry ya hesabu kuwa mungu) alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu wetu kwa sheria tofauti au alilazimika kuuumba kwa sheria hizi tulizonazo? Kitu gani kimezifanya sheria hizi zilizopo ziwe hivi? What breath fire into the equations and make a universe for them to describe ?

    Sasa naona baada ya contemplation amekuja kuona kwamba ili uwe na universe humhitaji mungu ( unless of course una m define mungu kama natural laws). Kila siku zinavyozidi ndivyo mungu anavyokosa relevance, kwanza alihitajika ili ku explain radi, watu wa kale waliamini radi ni sauti ya mungu, baadaye tulivyoelewa umeme tukajua kwamba radi ni umeme.

    Ni kweli kwamba ukisema gravity imeweza kutengeneza ulimwengu, kutakuwa na swali la kwamba gravity imetoka wapi. Lakini ukitaka kuuliza gravity imetoka wapi utakuwa unataka kusema kwamba kila kitu kina chanzo chake katika kitu kingine, kwamba gravity haiwezi kutokea tu kutoka nothingness.Nikikubali sheria hii, ukasema mungu ndiye katengeneza gravity, na mimi nitatumia sheria hiyo hiyo kukubana kwa kukuuliza mungu naye katokea wapi? Maana tushakubaliana kwamba gravity haiwezi kutokea tu out of nothingness, lazima itoke sehemu. Ukisema mungu hana mwanzo wala mwisho, unavunja sheria yako iliyokataa gravity kutowezekana kutokea bila mungu, pengine na gravity nayo ina characteristics kama za huyo mungu, na mungu hayupo, na labda kama unataka kuita kitu mungu, basi gravity ndiyo mungu maana ndiyo inaweza kuwa primal force iliyounda ulimwengu.

    Unapojaribu kuangalia uwezekano wa kuwepo mungu, especially huyu "personal god" kama wa Judeo-Christian tradition, au mungu yeyote asiye ndani ya natural laws, mungu anayefanya miujiza na kusikiliz amaombi ya watu, the more you think about this god the more unreal he becomes.
     
  12. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    Yep I don't, I'm an Atheist so I could care less about dissing your imaginary friend who lives upstairs.
    It never ceases to amaze me how a being who nobody has ever seen can actually receive a ton more respect than your fellow human being who lives, laughs, talks and loves next to you, this respect for this imaginary friend of yours has caused more cruel innocent deaths than a disease like malaria could dream of in a million years, people judge, kill, have prejudices against their fellow humans all in the name of this imaginary deity and you want me to have respect for him?

    I will quote Richard Dawkins by asking, "Imagine, with John Lennon, a world with no religion. Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no presecution of Jews as 'Christ-killers', no Northern Ireland 'troubles', no 'honour killings', no shiny bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money ('God wants you to give till it hurts'). Imagine no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheadings of blasphemers, no flogging of female skin for the crime of showing an inch of it."
    Can you Smatta imagine such a world? Clearly it is possible to have such a world only by the removal of this God as the supreme deity who supposedly watches over our world.
     
  13. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    There is a direct relationship between excessive belief in the supernatural powers -including the god idea - and poverty.

    Societies with a lower belief in god and high secularism and just some remnants of religion for tradition's sake (e.g Northern Europe), save for the outlier of oil rich Arab countries, have a more prosperous economic positions than societies that are highly evangelicized and believe so much in supernatural powers like religions and witchcraft e.g West Africa.

    Is belief in god, at this juncture in our human journey, a hinderance to economic development ?
     
  14. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Uzuri wa kufuru hii, ni kwamba mungu anatakiwa kuwa ndiye muweza wa yote. Na kama kweli mungu ni muweza wa yote, na aliyetupa yote, hata hiyo akili inayokusababishia kukufuru kakupa yeye.

    Kwa hiyo kama kuna the slightest chance ya kwamba mungu yupo na takuuliza kwa nini ulinikufuru, jibu lake ni rahisi tu, kwa sababu hukunipa imani ya kutosha kukuamini mungu, huwezi kunilaumu.

    Classical Bertrand Russell solution.
     
  15. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Paradox,

    The belief in god has nothing to do with reason, it has everything to do with a wishful thinking psychology.

    Ni ukiwa mkuu kujua kwamba "there is nobody out there to protect us, and we must take care of ourselves" ingawa huu ndio ukweli.

    Inavutia zaidi tukijiaminisha kwamba "there is a big and all powerful god out there, who can right all wrongs and has a better plan than we can all comprehend" this absolves us of the final responsibility at the same time it allows us some breathing space.Ukitakiwa kusoma sana ili upasi mtihani unaweza ku slack kidogo na kutaka kumuomba mungu. Ukiambiwa the earth is dying due to excessive ChloroFluoroCarbon emissions una brush that aside, mungu atatusaidia. Miners wakifa mgodini kwa sababu ya poor quality control and safety regulations, rais anasema "ni kazi ya mungu".Ukiwa unaamini mungu mungu anageuka kichaka cha kulundika yote tusiyoyaelewa.Ukifiwa na ndugu mpenzi unasema "Bwana alitoa na bwana ametwaa" bila ya kujiuliza kama huyu bwana ni mzuri hivyo, na ana uwezo hivyo, kwa nini hakutengeneza ulimwengu usio na njaa wala machungu? Na usiniambie kwamba aliutengeneza ulimwengu hivyo ila shetani akatushawishi tufanye dhambi, kwa nini alimuumba shetani? Kwa nini aliiumba dhambi?

    Ukichunguza sana utaona mungu ni hadithi tu, sawa sawa na hadithi za watoto kwamba kwenye mwezi kuna ng'ombe.
     
  16. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    Kiranga.
    Point noted, I just wish everyone would see just how simple life is without having to waste so much time complicating it.
    But alas that would be wishful thinking, just like the belief in God is.
     
  17. T

    TumainiEl JF-Expert Member

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    Akili za wanadam ni ujinga machoni pa Mungu, mabishano yenu ni juu ya vile tunaona nakujuwa ila mwisho wa yote ni kaburi,nahapa ndio siri ya Uungu ipo. Uasi wa mwanadam chimbuko lake lilikuwa kujuwa nguvu za Mungu nakutaka kuwa kama Yeye,leo tupo ktk mateso. What is a Prof H? What is prest? What is king? Or quen? Kote nikujilisha ujinga namwisho wake nikaburi. Siitaji kuumia kichwa juu yanguvu za Mungu ila in all we see,touch or hear? There is God. Taka usitake,andika karatasi zote za dunia ukipinga nguvu zake Yeye atakuwepo sasa namilele yote. Amen
     
  18. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    Awww, that was so touching, I think I felt a tear come out of the corner of eyes.
    Yeah right, foolish merde. :becky:
     
  19. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa hiyo hata hiyo akili ya kuamini kwamba mungu yupo ni ujinga?

    Kama mwisho wa yote ni kaburi kwa hiyo hizi habari za pepo na moto ni kamba tu, au siyo? Umesema mwenyewe mwisho wa yote ni kaburi.

    Unajuaje kwamba ni siri ya uungu ? Kwa nini isiwe kwamba kifo ni matokeo ya kukongoroka kwa mwili kwa mujibu wa kanuni za sayansi, kama vile mashine inavyoharibika na kuacha kufanya kazi?

    Hizi habari za mythology unaziamini wewe? Kwamba binadamu alianzia katika bustani ya Edeni? Kwamba kulikuwa na Adamu na Hawa, unaamini hizi habari? Kama mungu ni muweza yote, kwa nini aliwawezesha binadamu kuwa na utashi wa kutaka kujua kama yeye? Na usinijibu kwamba mungu hakuwawezesha ila binadamu waliamua kwa utashi wao kushawishiwa na shetani, kwa nini mungu alimuumba shetani? Kwa nini mungu aliumba utashi unaoweza kukubali mabaya? Ina maana mungu alibariki mabaya ? Aliumba ulimwengu wenye uwezekano wa kufanyika mabaya? Je ilikuwa lazima kwake kuumba ulimwengu unaowezekana mabaya au haikuwa lazima, aliumba hivyo kwa kutaka tu ?

    Na usiniambie kabisa kwamba mungu aliumba mabaya lakini akatupa uwezo wa kutambua mema na mabaya.

    Wewe unaweza kumuwekea mtoto mdogo chupa ya maziwa safi na chupa ya sumu, kisa eti umpe uchaguzi wa kufanya atakacho? Sisi binadamu tulioumbwa na utashi tusioweza kuuzuia ni kama watoto wadogo walio na uelewa mdogo wanaopewa uchaguzi wa kuchagua maziwa au sumu, baba atakayefanya hivi atahukumiwa kuwa muuaji, sasa huyu mungu mungu gani asiyeweza kupita standards za kibinadamu tu ?

    Mateso zaidi unajipa mwenyewe kwa kuamini vitu visivyopo.

    Kama unajua mwisho wake ni kaburi utamteteaje mungu anayetuambia kuna hukumu, mbingu na pepo baada ya kaburi ?

    Umejuaje? Utalazimishaje by fiat mungu awepo? Na mimi nikikwambia in all we see hear and touch there is St. Claus, utakataaje ?

    Mungu hajawahi kuwepo, hayupo na hatakuja kuwepo. Hata ukibisha kwa hoja ya nguvu na bila kutumia nguvu ya hoja.

    Kama mungu mwenye uwezo wote yupo kwa nini kaua vitoto masikini na visivyo hatia huko Haiti, wakati mafisadi wanapeta tu ?

    Kama mungu mwenye uwezo wote ndiye aliyeumba ulimwengu wenye maovu kama huu, tungeweza kumkamata tungemshitaki kwa mauaji ya genocide sawa sawa na wauaji wengine tu. Ukiwa na uwezo kuzuia maafa usipozuia ni muuaji tu, kwa nini mungu anaruhusu maafa ? Kwa nini mungu kaumba ulimwengu ambao unaweza kuwa na watu wasioamini kwamba kuna mungu ?
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    On a lighter note, hivi mungu anaweza kuumba jiwe liwe zito kiasi kwamba yeye mwenyewe ashindwe kulibeba ?
     
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