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Gharama za kesi ya Chiluba

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Zitto, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. Zitto

    Zitto Verified User

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    Nimekutana na hili katika BBC. It is worth being posted.

    Chiluba trial 'cost Zambia $13m'


    [​IMG] Ex-President Chiluba has recently been in poor health

    Zambian President Rupia Banda has said the government spent $13m (£7.8m)prosecuting President Frederick Chiluba.
    The former president was accused of embezzling $500,000 of public funds.
    Speaking at a rally, President Banda said the money would have been far better spent on schools, medicines and hospitals.
    Mr Chiluba, who has famously extravagant tastes, was acquitted of the charges in August.
    In a separate case in 2007, London's High Court ruled that Mr Chiluba had defrauded the Zambian government of more than $40m using UK-based bank accounts.
     
  2. Halisi

    Halisi JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona kichekesho?? Au ndio gharama za Demokrasia? Hizo wanazidi kuwasaidia hao wanafunzi na wagonjwa wanaohitaji elimu ama?
     
  3. Zitto

    Zitto Verified User

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    Gharama za demokrasia. Rais analalamika kwa kuwa wlaishindwa tu kesi lakini kama wangeshinda ingekuwa ni fundisho na kungekuwa na value for money. Hata katika hali hii bado kuna value for money nadhani. Jambo la kujifunza ni kuandaa kesi vizuri na sio kukurupuka ili kupata faida za muda mfupi za kisiasa.
     
  4. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    Thanks Mkuu, its sad kwamba waliuza ng'ombe kwa kesi ya kuku... Lakini naamini hiyo ndiyo cost ya the so called "utawala wa sheria na demokrasia" which in most cases kwa nchi kama zetu huwatajirisha a few lawyers na investigators

    On a positive note, how much (dollar value) did they prevent from being stolen kwa kumfungulia kesi ex-president? i guess its more than what "tolu" stole

    Democracy is very expensive, especially to poor people
     
  5. Ng'wanza Madaso

    Ng'wanza Madaso JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa hili mwacheni Mkapa apumzike kwa amani, kwani kwa waendesha mashtaka wetu ni yale yale ya kina Nzombe, Chiluba na Liyumba ya kutokuandaa kesi vizuri hatimae hayo ndo yanatokea na hapo hajadai fidia ya kuchafuliwa jina na mengineyo.
     
  6. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    Wanayajua hayo ndio maana wanatembea vifua mbele na m@tak0 nyuma kama bata!!!!!!
     
  7. Halisi

    Halisi JF-Expert Member

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    Tutayaona Tanzania kwenye kesi za kina Mramba na nyingine za kijinga zitakazofunguliwa.
     
  8. K

    Keil JF-Expert Member

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    Hiyo kesi ilikuwa inaendeshwa Zambia ama nje ya nchi? Hizo gharama zimetokana na nini? Kwanini gharama za uendeshaji wa kesi hiyo zimekuwa kubwa sana?

    Inasikitisha sana unapoona serikali inafuatilia ubadhirifu wa $ 500,000, halafu inaishia kutumia $ 13,000,000! Na mwisho wa siku wanapoteza kesi.

    Kwanini Banda alitoa kauli hiyo kwenye mkutano wa hadhara? Je, alikuwa na political agenda kuhusu vita vya ufisadi?

    Kauli kama hiyo ina ashiria mengi sana na hasa ikitolewa na Rais.

    1. Inawezekana Rais wa sasa hataki kuendeleza moto wa vita ya ufisadi iliyoanzishwa na marehemu L. Mwanawasa. Kwa hiyo anatumia kisingizio cha gharama kubwa ili kuachana na kesi hizo na wananchi watamuunga mkono na hivyo kesi zote za ufisadi zitafungwa na hapo ndipo anajenga mwanya mwingine wa walio serikalini kuendelea na ufisadi.

    2. Ofisi ya DPP ina matatizo, kwamba ama inaingiliwa na serikali ili kupelekea mashitaka wrong, ama inapeleka mashitaka right with wrong/light evidence na mwisho wa siku mafisadi wanashinda. Hilo tumeliona hata hapa kwetu, mafisadi wengi wamepelekwa mahakamani kwa mashitaka mepesi sana ama DPP hapeleki evidence ambayo inaweza kuwakaanga watuhumiwa.

    3. Kesi ambazo serikali za ki-Afrika zina interest, serikali huwa inafanya kila linalowezekana ili kuhakikisha inashinda. Mfano, Malawi waliwahi kum-engage wakili toka UK ili aje kumsaidia DPP wa Malawi kuhakikisha anamtia hatiani Makamu wa Rais aliyekuwa anatuhumiwa na kesi ya uhaini.

    4. Idara ya Mahakama pia inaweza kubebeshwa mzigo kwamba sometimes hukumu zake huwa zina utata mkubwa. Kwamba wanafanya kile ambacho serikali inataka kifanyike na hata hukumu zao zinakuwa zimepinda pinda. Unless kuwe na ushahidi wa wazi sana ambao hakuna namna ya mtuhumiwa kukwepa.

    The bottom line ni kwamba nchi za ki-Afrika zinahitaji kuwa na mechanism nzuri ya kuwachagua majaji wa mahakama kuu na mahakama za juu yake, na siyo Rais aachiwe jukumu hilo peke yake. Kwa mfumo uliopo majaji wanahisi kwamba wanawajibika zaidi kwa Rais aliyewateua kuliko kutimiza wajibu wao.

    Pia kuwe na mechanism ya kum-hold accountable DPP pindi anaposhindwa kutimiza wajibu ipasavyo. Lazima tujue kwanini baadhi ya kesi hazipelekwi mahakamani, ama kwanini ali-frame vibaya mashitaka ama kupeleka ushahidi hafifu mahakamani? Hili linaunganishwa na IGP kwamba lazima idara ya upelelezi ihakikishe inakusanya ushahidi wote muhimu bila kuuvuruga na kuufikisha kwa DPP ili uweze kutumika kwenye kesi husika.

    Leo hii ukitaka kujua details za Kagoda unaweza kushangaa hata fomu za kufungua accounts CRBD hazijulikani ziko wapi. Ukienda BRELA unaweza kuambiwa file lilishapotea. Haya yote yanafanywa kwa malengo ya kupoteza ushahidi kwa makusudi na inawezekana Polisi/PCCB/DPP wanaweza kuwa wanahusika ili kuficha ukweli ama kupoteza ushahidi uliowazi na kuwataka watumie ushahidi wa kimazingira ambao unaweza kuwa na ugumu kwa kiasi fulani kuutetea na hivyo Jaji/Hakimu akapata mwanya wa kumchomoa mtuhumiwa.
     
  9. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Mhe.Zitto,
    Mimi nilisikia kuwa rais Banda alitaka serikali ishindwe hii kesi kwa sababu ya kuwalainisha wafuasi wa Chiluba. Hata prosecutor aliyekuwa makini aliachishwa kazi na serikali. Sasa sijui rais analalamika kitu gani.
     
  10. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    WIZI MTUPU! Hebu waanike hadharani breakdown za hizo $13 million kama hatukukuta kumejaa ufisadi wa hali ya juu. Hata kesi ya Juice (OJ) ambayo ilikuwa na timu za wanasheria gharama za kesi ile zilikuwa hazifikii $13 million.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
    O.J. Simpson double murder trial cost taxpayers in Los Angeles County $9 million: report.(Brief Article)



    Jet | December 25, 1995 | COPYRIGHT 1995 Johnson Publishing Co. This material is published under license from the publisher through the Gale Group, Farmington Hills, Michigan. All inquiries regarding rights should be directed to the Gale Group. (Hide copyright information) Copyright
     
  11. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    - Yale yale huyu Banda naye ni fisadi tu, toka enzi za Kaunda haya maneno yake ni unafiki wa hali ya juu sana anajaribu kusitisha tabia ya kuwafuatilia marais wa zamani na viongozi wa juu kwa visingizio vya gahrama ya kesi,

    - Hata kama zingetumika Millioni 20, the principle sio gharama ila ni kuweka tabia za kuheshimu utawala wa sheria, nani anasema kuwa gharama yake itakuwa ndogo?

    - Huyu Banda sounds like fisadi pia!

    Respect.


    FMEs!
     
  12. Mbogela

    Mbogela JF-Expert Member

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    Sijui wangapi mnakumbuka kesi za BOT na Nimrod Mkono and Co, Pesa iliyotumika kuendesha zile kesi ambazo hazijaisha mpaka leo (sina uhakika) nadhani Nimrodi likula pesa nyingi kwa kulipwa kama mwansheria wa BOT kuliko gharama za malalamiko yetu kwenye zile kesi.
    Mwenye data za ile kesi tafadhari tukumbushe watu tujifunze kwa data.

    Na hili ndilo linaloendelea mpaka leo TZ, CCM imefanikiwa kuwadanganya wananchi kuwa kama tutawapeleka mahakamani akina RA tutashindwa kesi na tutadaiwa pesa nyingi sana, lakini swali ambalo wanashindwa kutujibu wananchi ni kwa nini tushindwe kesi??
    Ukiangalia Kagoda ilikomba fedha BOT, mmiliki mpaka sasa inaelezwa kuwa hafahamiki,
    sasa ni wajibu wa nani kupeleleza habari za mmiliki? Bila shaka serikali.
    Je hakuna doc BOT zinazoonyesha nani alikomba pesa kwa niaba ya Kagoda? Kama Hakuna wahusika wa BOT wawajibike (kwa kesi ya uhujumu uchumi na wizi wa kuaminika) Alafu tunawafuata Brela, watuambie huyu walimsajili kama KAGODA ni nani? kama watashindwa kutoa majibu serikali kwa niaba yetu wananchi iwapeleke mahakamani na wapate hukumu sawa sawa na uzembe au ushiriki wao katika kutuibia.

    Ni wajibu wa vyombo vya usalama wa nchi kufanya upelelezi makini, kisha kuandaa kesi kikamilifu na kuproscute maximumly kuhakikisha kuwa wahusika wote wanapata haki yao sawa sawa na matendo yao.

    Hizi kesi za akina Chiluba zinawafanya wazitumie kama kinga yao ya kukwepa uwajibijikaji. Napenda nadharia ya Mh. Zitto, kujifunza kwa kurudi nyuma na kusucrifice kile unachokipata wakati huu kwa ajili ya long term goals.
    Zitto amenishawishi na mifano yake ya 1. waziri mkuu wa Canada Stephen Joseph Harper kuwa aliachia ngazi ubunge wakati chama chake kina wabunge wachache sana ili akanzishe NGO ambayo baadaye ilikisaidia chama chake kuwa kikubwa sana na kushika u-WM, Pia 2.Raila Amollo Odinga waziri mkuu wa Kenya aliyeangushwa na marafiki zake aliowaamini pamoja na miungano ya vyama lakini leo amekuwa ni miongoni mwa mawaziri wakuu powerful ukanda wa maziwa makuu.

    Historia za hawa watu kama anayozielezea Zitto zinaonysha kuwa Serikali zetu ziwe tayari kusucrifice benfit za muda mfupi kwa jaili ya kuja kuvuna benefit kubwa hapo baadaye. Kama wataamua kwa ukweli kabisa wakapeleleza kesi za Kagoda, EPA, Richmond, IPTL, Meremeta wakazipeleka mahakani kwa kujiamini na kwa kuandaa kesi halisi na sio vivuri vya kesi, wakazisimamia kwa ukweli kabisa, watawapoteza marafiki zao wasio zidi 50 lakini watagain support ya watanzania karibu milion 40, na CCM ingeweza kutawala milele, kama tu ingediriki kurudisha pesa ya watanzania kutoka mikononi mwa hawa mafisadi, kama ingeweza kuwaweka mahali pao panapo wahusu yaani keko akina Zombe, Mkapa, Yona, Mramba, Apson, watanzania tungendeleza wimbo wetu wa kidumu chama cha Mapinduzi, lakini sasa wajue kuwa wakati wao umekwisha, siku zao zimehesabika, itafika January moja ambapo tutamka na historia kulikuwa na CCM, kwani hawataki kujifunza kwa mfano wa YONA (yule alikubali kutoswa baharini ili wenzie wavuke salama). Mbegu isipopandwa kwa kuzikwa udongoni ikaharibika haiwezi kumea kuwa mmea mkubwa tena, serikali yetu msione haya, mficha maradhi kilio kitamfichua.
    Shauri yenu!
     
  13. Junius

    Junius JF-Expert Member

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    Du,Africa bado kabsaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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