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Fuso lenye maiti za kufundishia

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Parapanda, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Parapanda

    Parapanda Member

    #1
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Jana nimesoma habari kwenye gazeti la Nipashe kuwa, walinzi wa Hospitali ya Taifa Muhimbili walilizuia lori lililokuwa limebeba maiti wengi kutoka nyumba ya maiti hospitalini hapo, baada ya kutilia shaka uondoshwaji wa maiti hao. Sehemu ya habari hiyo ni hii

    "lilikuwa limebeba maiti 10 ambazo zilikuwa zinaondolewa hospitalini wakati wa usiku na bila wao kuwa na taarifa.
    Maiti hizo zilizuiliwa kwa muda wa saa kadhaa mpaka polisi walipoitwa kuthibitisha ukweli wake................"

    "Kamanda wa Polisi Mkoa wa Ilala, Faustine Shilogile, alipoulizwa kuhusiana na tukio hilo, alisema kuwa suala hilo ni la kiutawala linaloihusu Hospitali ya Muhimbili na kwamba wao hawawezi kulitolea taarifa bali wenye mamlaka hiyo ni uongozi wa hospitali hiyo"

    "Ofisa Habari wa Hospitali ya Muhimbili, Aminiel Aligaesha, aliliambia NIPASHE kuwa maiti hizo zilikuwa zinapelekwa katika Chuo Kikuu cha Dodoma (Udom) kilichoko mkoani Dodoma".

    "Aligaesha alisema kuna utaratibu ambao huwa unafanyika kwani vyuo vya tiba huomba maiti kwa ajili ya kufundishia wanafunzi wao"

    "Alisema maiti ambazo huwa zinatolewa ni zile ambazo zimekaa katika chumba cha kuhifadhia maiti zaidi ya siku 14, baada ya ndugu kushindwa kujitokeza"

    “Na ikishafikia hapo maiti haina ndugu na imekaa zaidi ya siku hizo huzikwa na Manispaa kwa kushirikiana na polisi,” alisema Aligaesha.


    Naomba wenzangu mnaofahamu mnielimishe kuhusiana na jambo hilo ambalo mimi limenikera, na sioni kama ni haki kutoa maiti kwa ajili ya kujifunzia (Cadaver) kwa kigezo tu cha wanandugu kutokujitokeza kumchukua maiti yule! Najisikia vibaya kwa sababu NI HAKIKA kuwa hata mimi nitakuwa maiti wakati wangu ukifika, hata wewe.

    Huo ndio utaratibu au mfumo kwa ajili ya kupata maiti kwa ajili ya wanafunzi wa tiba kujifunzia? Nijuavyo mimi, maiti za kujifunzia huwa zinatokana na ridhaa ya mtu awapo hai kutoa tamko la kukubali kuwa, atakapokufa, kiungo au viungo fulani katika maiti yake vitumike kwa manufaa ya walio hai.Kwenye nchi zingine watu wa namna hii, ridhaa yao hiyo huwa imeonyeshwa kwenye vitambulisho vyao kama Leseni ya udereva kuwa ni "Organ Donor"; ili mauti yatakapomkuta popote, mamlaka zinazohusika zifahamu kuwa alishatoa ridhaa ya namna hiyo.

    Mwanadamu anastahili heshima; na hata maiti yake pia inastahili heshima vilevile. Naamini ni kinyume cha haki za binaadamu kutumia maiti yake au viungo vya maiti huyo bila ridhaa yake ambayo huitoa akiwa hai. Sipingi mafunzo ya tiba; ni mafunzo muhimu kwa ustawi mwa mwanadamu, lakini haki na heshima ya mwanadamu iheshimiwe awapo hai hata awapo maiti.
     
  2. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Ni kweli katika hali ya kawaida inatisha!
    Lakini pia ukiangalia kwa undani suala hili la Muhimbili lina utata maana kama lilikuwa linafanyika kwa uwazi, kwanini walinzi walizuwia kutoka kwa maiti hizo, tena worse ilibidi maiti hizo zichelewe kwa masaa 10, ndipo ruhusa ikatoka, hii inaonyesha kuwa walinzi walikuwa na substance katika uzuiaji wao!

    Kwanini mfumo wa gate-pass usitumike kutoa miili hiyo, hadi askari(mgambo, KK-Guard??) ndio wastukie, ...ni very unprocedural!
    Kunanukia aina fulani ya uozo hapo, aidha mtu fulani ananufaika na miili hiyo!

    Halafu mimi naona siku 14 ni kidogo sana ku'declare kuwa mwili hauna mwenyewe na hivyo kuzika au kuufanyia maduguri kama haya ya muhimbili!
     
  3. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Pia nijuavyo mimi, maiti za kujifunzia , cadaver, hupaswa kutoka mataifa ya mbali ya watu wasio na uwezekano wowote wa kinasaba na nchi husika, mfano Tanzania inapaswa kuletewa cadaver toka China etc ili wanafunzi wajifunze bila emotional wala remorse, hili la miili ya Dar kupelekwa Dodoma si wanafunzi watakuja kukuta ndugu zao?.
     
  4. Mwendabure

    Mwendabure JF-Expert Member

    #4
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    Jamani, Jamani, Jamani!!! Kuweni na ubinadam Dunia tunapita hii.
     
  5. King'asti

    King'asti JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Sep 4, 2011
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    hiyo ndo wasiwasi wangu. suala la kuficha identification ni muhimu sana. siku mwanafunzi atakuta binamu yake kwenye table hapatatosha! manake suala la kumchambua mtu sio mchezo, ni emotional kweli kweli. sasa kama hata utaratibu wa gate pass hautumiki, seuze huo wa kubadilishana. na hilo fuso linakua na acilities zinazotakia kwa ajili ya kuhifadhi mwili na kuzuia contamination zozote? manake body fluids lazima ziangaliwe kwa utaalamu wa kutosha. bongo ndo home!
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  6. S

    Speedo Member

    #6
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Duh!
    Hii inasikitisha kweli.
    Eti maiti ikikaa zaidi ya siku 14 ndio wanaigawa,
    Je! Ikitokea maiti zote zinapata ndugu zao kabla ya hizo siku watatumia zipi kwa mafunzo?
     
  7. Mzee

    Mzee JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Sep 4, 2011
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    hapo nakuunga mköno. Kuna kipindi niliambiwa kuwa huwa muhimbili wana mtindo wa kubadilishana maiti na Malawi. Sasa hili la maiti kupelekwa udom, ni hatar kuna uwezekano wa wanafunzi kukutana na ndg zao.
     
  8. Nkwesa Makambo

    Nkwesa Makambo JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Kipi ni bora,ipelekwe kujifunzia kama kwa bahati tu kuna mwanafunzi anamfahamu maiti aweze tambulika au wazikwe na manispaa bila faida yoyote ? Vingine ni bora tuvikubali vile vilivyo. Mwenyewe niko tayari maiti yangu iende kufundisha wanafunzi wakimaliza wawarudishie ndugu zangu wanizike. Wanachojifunza si tu kwamba kinamanufaa kwa wanafunzi hata kwa wenye maiti wao chaweza kuwanufaisha kiafya siku za baadae. Great thinkers vipi ?????
     
  9. kishoreda

    kishoreda Senior Member

    #9
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Na mm nina mashaka na U-great thinker wako
     
  10. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Kuna mengi sana hayajakaa sawa kwenye hiyo taarifa ya muhimbili... na sidhani kama maiti za tanzania zinatumika tanzania, na pia lazima ieleweke kwamba 14 days given there is a very short time unless utaratibu umebadilika

    BTW, this is like a third time hapa JF kuna mtu analeta hizi habari za namna hii... sikumbuki kama ni the same person lakini nadhani kuna tatizo

    kwa wale walioonekana kulaani utumiaji wa cadaver, ni kwasbabu tu hawaelewi how much its takes to make one doctor in the community... RATHER THAN LAWAMA, TAKE TIME TO LEARN
     
  11. KALYOVATIPI

    KALYOVATIPI JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Sep 4, 2011
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    bora wawe kitengo cha kununua miili ya kujifunzia lakin ndugu ndo wauze sio?
     
  12. C

    Concrete JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Kwa Tz, baada ya siku 14 na ndugu hajatokea, basi maiti inapaswa kuharibiwa(Disporsed). Suala hapa ni mantiki tu, Kuendelea kuhifadhi maiti ni Gharama kubwa & hatari kiafya hivyo inapaswa kuharibiwa. Kuliko kuiharibu bure(eg.Kuzikwa,Kushomwa moto n.k) ni bora Medical students wakajifunzia(Cadaver). But to use a dead body as Cadaver, Needs some regulations/Norms to be followed first (eg.Pre consent, Tissue viability, Screening of dangerous infections, To be brought from far away, Culture&Religious matters etc). Lakini kwa Bongo hivyo vyote vinaweza visifikiwe kulingana na mifumo mizima iliyopo. But all in all we need good Medical doctors, how can we achieve that? Let do our best...Ni bora kuendelea kuwatumia maiti hao waliokosa ndugu.
     
  13. Kijuche

    Kijuche JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Mhh! napita wajameni.
     
  14. Crashwise

    Crashwise JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Sep 4, 2011
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    mimi sioni tatizo la miili iliyo kosa ndugu kutumika kujifunzia..
     
  15. Parapanda

    Parapanda Member

    #15
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Kuna mengi sana hayajakaa sawa kwenye hiyo taarifa ya muhimbili... na sidhani kama maiti za tanzania zinatumika tanzania, na pia lazima ieleweke kwamba 14 days given there is a very short time unless utaratibu umebadilika

    Mkuu nijuze utaratibu unaoufahamu wewe, kama huo uliotumika unadhani "umebadilika".
    Afisa Uhusiano wa hospitali amesema UDOM waliandika barua, RPC akasema suala hilo linahusu mamlaka ya Muhimbili; wewe unasema "hudhani" kama maiti hao ni wa Tanzania;..........! Sielewi mantiki ya dhana yako hiyo.

    this is like a third time hapa JF kuna mtu analeta hizi habari za namna hii sikumbuki kama ni the same person lakini nadhani kuna tatizo

    kwa wale walioonekana kulaani utumiaji wa cadaver, ni kwasbabu tu hawaelewi how much its takes to make one doctor in the community... RATHER THAN LAWAMA, TAKE TIME TO LEARN

    Kama kuna mtu aliwahi kuleta habari hii hapa JF kabla ya hii ya leo, siyo mimi. Mimi nimeileta hapa leo kwa mara ya kwanza baada ya kuwa nimeisoma gazetini jana. Kwenye maelezo yangu ya awali, aya ya mwisho nimesema SIPINGI matumizi ya maiti kwa mafunzo ya madaktari, wala hakuna mchangiaji hata mmoja aliyepinga matumizi hayo; hoja hapa ni jinsi au namna ya kupata miili hiyo, tuelewa ndugu.
     
  16. Viper

    Viper JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    tunahitaji madactari wajameni.. lakini walifanya makosa.. inabidi tubadilishane na nchi zingine
     
  17. m

    mikogo Senior Member

    #17
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    Hili tukio la muhimbili ni jipya katika masikio ya wanainchi wa kawaida. muhimu kama mwana JF ambaye an ufahamu wa kutosha kwa taratibu na sheria za nchi au kimataifa ambazo zinaelezea haki ya maiti na haki ya hospitali kwa maiti.
    suala la ni siku ngapi maiti inakuwa haina mwenyewe vilevile tufahamishwe kama ni kwa mujibu wa sheria au kanuni za kitabibu. tuelimishane na tusichekane kwa kutokujua. mwenye kujua aelimishe .
     
  18. Gama

    Gama JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Huo ndo ukweli.
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  19. D

    Danniair JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Sep 4, 2011
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    Hakuna tatizo kabisa huu ni utaratibu unaotumika ili kuweza kufanya opresheni zote. Pia vyuo vya polisi hasa wale watakaochunguza vifo mbali mbali hufanya mazoezi kwa kutumia maiti. Niliwahi kuona kuna bustani ya maiti walio ktk stage mbali mbali, yaani toka kutokuharibika hadi kuoza kabisa. Ktk bustani hiyo maiti wamewekwa ktk staili ambazo wamekutwa wakiwa wafu na siku zilizowapitia ktk umauti. Na ni kazi ya mwanafunzi kuisoma maiti ile na kugundua kifo chake. Kwa kesi ya chuo sioni tatizo kabisa. Pia tuwe na moyo wa kujitolea kutoa baadhi ya viungo vyetu mara tunapo fariki visaidie wanaoviitaji walio hai. Wanaohusika hamasisheni hili kwani tumekuwa wachoyo mpaka mautini.
     
  20. Ozzie

    Ozzie JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    Pasco ujuavyo si sahihi. Mara zote maiti ama hutolewa humuhumu nchini au hutolewa nchi za jirani kama Kenya, Malawi n.k. Huwezi kwenda China kuchukua maiti, wakati models zipo. Tunataka miili halisia inayofanana na sisi.
    Madaktari wa binadamu kokote duniani hutumia maiti kujifunzia. Katika chumba hiki cha cadaver ambacho ni darasa la Anatomy na pia pathology watu wanamheshimu maiti kama mwalimu. Unajifunza kwa kukata kiungo kimoja hadi kingine. Mwisho wa siku hatakuwa mtu tena, maana vitakuwa ni vipandepande tu ambavyo baadaye huchomwa. Baadhi ya nchi kwa kuheshimu elimu tunayoipata kupitia maiti, wameandika kwenye darasa la cadaver, "Here is the only place where the dead teaches the living".
    Kutumia cadaver ni moja ya vitu vinavyomtofautisha daktari wa degree (Medical officer/MD) na madaktari wa "UPE" (Assistant Medical Officers na Clinical Officers). Hivyo hufanya wawe wana uelewa mkubwa wa anatomy, pathology na physiology ya mwili wa binadamu. Enzi zetu tulikuwa tukipewa mwili wa binadamu mmoja (first year), mwaka mzima mnakesha nao. Na mtihani unaweza ukaja wamechukua nerve ya sehemu fulani, wameifunga label wanakuuliza jina lake na vitu ifanyavyo.
    Kutumia maiti kujifunzia iko kisheria. Labda tatizo ni namna ya kuzipata maiti. Mimi mwaka wangu kulikuwepo na maiti ya kimasai. Pia niliwahi sikia kuwa kuna mwanafunzi fulani aliacha chuo baada ya kumwona ndugu yake chumba cha cadaver, ni story ambazo hazijathibitishwa.
    Sasa twahitaji cadaver, ili madaktari wajue miili yetu kabla hawajaanza kutugusa. Maiti hiyo yaweza ikawa mjombako, shangazi au sio ndugu. Ila lazima tukumbuke kuwa hakuna maiti ambayo haina ndugu duniani, hivyo hilo lisitusumbue. Cha muhimu ni kwamba hawa maiti wanachangia kuacha elimu kubwa kwa wale wanaobaki nyuma yao.
    Kuhusu kuhamisha maiti usiku nadhani ni utaratibu mzuri. Wewe ulitaka fuso yenye maiti kumi wanaopelekwa UDOM itoe maiti hao mchana kweupe? Hujui uzito wa maiti? Au wadhani wanaenda kuaga na kuzika? Hata Muhimbili chuo pale maiti wanaingizwa usiku wa manane. Maana wanaingizwa kwenye darasa ambalo aghalabu pembeni kuna ofisi za wafanyakazi tofauti wengine wasiokuwa madaktari.
    Sasa tukubaliane tuchukue maiti walioachwa kwa muda gani? Siku kumi na nne? Ukisema siku kumi na nne chache sasa cut off ya siku chache ni ipi? Una dawa za kuhifadhia hao maiti? Una fridge za kutosha? Una umeme wa kutosha? Sasa tuhifadhi miaka kumi ili kila mtu aridhike? Halafu wewe unayesema siku kumi na nne chache, ukienda hospitali ukakuta maiti ikuhusuyo imeshazikwa na mamlaka husika utasemaje? Kwamba fukueni?
    Nadhani haya mambo madogo sana, alimradi twatambua kuwa hawa maiti wanastahili heshima, kwa kuwa wanaacha kitu kizuri nyuma kuliko yule anayeenda moja kwa moja kaburini na kuliwa na funza ambako wote tutaishia huko.
     
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