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Finally, they are telling us.. !!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Economic growth hard to feel - BoT

    2008-04-03 08:50:28
    By Lydia Shekighenda

    The Bank of Tanzania (BoT) has projected that it will be between three and four decades before ordinary wananchi ``feel`` the country`s economic growth.


    This is according to BoT Governor Benno Ndulu in a presentation at a forum for researchers and decision-makers in Dar es Salaam yesterday.

    Prof Ndulu`s presentation centred on the challenges of growth Tanzania was contending with and was made at an annual research workshop organised by Research on Poverty Alleviation (Repoa).

    The BoT chief argued that it was impossible for the results of economic growth to be felt within a short period, adding: ``Last year Tanzania`s economy was projected to have grown by 7.3 per cent.

    If we had managed to grow consecutively for a period of 30 to 40 years, then the outcome would have been felt right down to the grassroots level.``

    He recommended that greater attention be directed at areas with great potential of leading to positive results in the economy if given the right support.

    ``We should not focus only on how the economy is growing but also on areas able to provide greater opportunities to our people. This approach could be termed as pro-poor growth,`` he said.

    The professor explained that Tanzania`s economy has improved much over the years in terms of structure, sources of growth and exports ``but one of the major challenges ahead is making sure that the country sustains these changes``.

    ``We should not focus only on how to improve agriculture by providing loans and subsidies on agricultural inputs but we should also come up with strategies with the capacity to bring about positive changes to our economy,`` he pointed out.

    The central bank governor also underscored the need for local investors to contribute more substantially to the creation and strengthening of a vibrant private sector.

    Opening the workshop, Industry, Trade and Marketing deputy minister Cyril Chami said it was possible to attain and sustain the country`s domestic and global development targets if they were based on a sound domestic economy.

    Achievements based mainly on external resources were bound to face problems of sustainability, he asserted, noting that salvation lay in having the country focus on ``the refinement of its growth strategy - which must be brought into sharp focus within the development agenda``.

    Repoa executive director Joseph Semboja said the forum has grown into the largest and longest running annual event hosted by his institution.

    This year`s participants included researchers, central and local government officials, private sector players, and representatives of civil society organisations, and the donor community.

    My Take:

    I thought they could just push a button of development no waiting, no time lapsing, no hardship just kavoom!! We have to wait.. that means it'll be about 80 years after independence!! Is this reasonable.. why it couldn't have be done yesterday!!!? This one I blame Nyerere too, it is taking us too long!!!! Why Nyerere why? WE could have been like ze yunaitedi steti of america.

    Why can't we just have rapid change? Why Ndulu why? Why do we have to wait? Why can't the government just make it possible? Nyerere is no longer there, in 40 years most of these people would not be here (probably me too).. so why even bother!!

    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
     
  2. Allah's Slave

    Allah's Slave JF-Expert Member

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    Ntakuwa kaburini
     
  3. m

    mwewe Senior Member

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    Ina maana migodi yote ya dhahabu itamalizika bila ya mimi (sisi) kuona mabadiliko. Hii pia ni kwa wanetu na vijukuu!! Kazi kubwa.

    80 coming years of waiting + 47 yrs of independence = 127 years of impoverished economic condition for Tanzanians!
     
  4. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    Kweli tutakua tushakufa...hata sijui wanatuambia nini hii kitu!
    Washaiba wao na sasa wanatupa taarifa kua tutasuffer na pia watoto wetu wata-suffer...na waliokwapua hizo hela bado wamo
    mumu humu tunapumua nao hewa ya bure....Kudadeki waswahili kama hewa pia ingekua inauzwa!!!
     
  5. DMussa

    DMussa JF-Expert Member

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    Ohhh please!! 40years!!! No hopes at all... in forty years we'll have new fisadis with new technologies and our poor beloved Tanzania will just die naturally!!!!
    Hope i will live to see history repeat itself!!!?

    But why Benno.... why Lowassa ooops sorry Why JK???? There is always a way please lets do it!!!!!!
     
  6. T

    TechMaro Senior Member

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    If it happen one day you meet one of our current leaders, and ask him/her (even the president) where does he/she see Tanzania in 20 or 30 years??? utaona kigugumizi....

    Our leaders hawana 30 years kwenye akili zao, how come Ndulu anaongelea 30 years leo??? We are a society with no vision, which i blame on the leaders, as they are supposed to come up with it, and make it known to wananchi, ili tuweze kuchangia au kupinga kujua tunataka tuweje in 20 years, and tutakapokubaliana na vision yenyewe wananchi tuwe committed to reach it.

    Watanzania hatuna common goal kama watu wa Taifa moja, kila mtu anafanya for his/her own sake, kujinufaisha mwenyewe, si bure kufisadi ni fasheni inayobarikiwa na hata viongozi wetu wakuu.

    How can wananchi feel the economic growth in 30 years, while today a few wanachukua mabilioni ya serikali kama mchezo???

    Ningependa kuona Ndulu akitoa analysis on how the EPA, Richmond, and other govt coffers' theft have impacted on the economy. With the $500m or more lost, where could the economy be if it was properly utilized???

    Mi naona baada ya kushindwa kuulezea kukua kwa huo uchumi wao (eti 7.3% last year) in terms ya maisha ya watu, wanaanza kutupa hopes za miaka 30. Huu ni uzushi. Inamaana hii 30% growth nani ataifeel???? Uchumi ukikua kwa asilimia 7 then we expect maisha ya improve by hiyo 7%, for example barabara ziongezeke by 7%(kwa hela zetu sio mikopo na misaada); ubora wa elimu by 7%, afya by 7%, etc etc.

    In thirty years, a 7% annual growth, ni sawa na kuongezeka kwa hali zetu ya sasa kwa zaidi ya asilimia 600, ndo anataka kusema kwamba ndo tutakuwa tumeshtuka?????? Barabara ya kiwango cha lami kikiongezeka kwa asilimia 600% ndo tutajua uchumi wetu umekuwa??

    Prof Ndulu ametudanganya hapo.....
     
  7. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu si ndie yule yule ambae ni juzi tu alituambia Shilingi ya Tanzania inaelekea kuipiku Dola na uchumi umepanda au ni mwengine ,Sasa anakuja na mikakati baada ya miaka mia !!! Bora ajinyamazie kimya kuliko kuidai yupo mstari wa mbele kila siku au anatafuta misifa wakati hajui atendalo ?
     
  8. T

    TechMaro Senior Member

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    Huyu si alitoka Butiama juzi???? Inakuwaje watu baada ya Butiama wanakuja na stories za ajabu ajabu....
     
  9. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Unajua msema kweli ni mpenzi wa Mungu, baada ya kuiona hii, ninaanza kuamini kuwa huyu Ndulu, ni kiongozi kichwa sana, WHY? Here the man is being honest as hell! this is a brutal truth take ir or leave it lakini hakuna maneno ya blah! balh! blah! and that is what we need in our leaders, ukweli, sio mawazo yasiyowezekana, siasa weee na huku hatuendi kokote,

    Hapa the men is making it be known tena very loud and clear, kuwa after all the mess mliyoifanya yaaani wanasiasa wetu wa Tanzania, toka tupate uhuru, itachukua Three to Four, decades ku-clear it up, now kill me or love me, lakini hiii ni brutal fact!

    Lakini hapa tayari ameshaanza kushambuliwa, unajua why? kwa sababu tumezoea kusikia nitawapatia maisha bora kwa kila Mtanzania na kununua ndege mpya ya rais,

    Bravo Ndulu, kwa hili!
     
  10. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi katika hizo projections zake aliweka na alowance ya wizi na ufisadi au calculations zake zimebase kwenye iwapo hakutakuwa na wizi na ufisadi? Kwa sababu kama kukiwa na wizi na ufisadi, nadhani tunaweza kufika mwisho wa dunia bila ya kuona hicho anachokisema.
    na huyu bwana si aliitwa Butiama, hivi kule alisema nini? Sijasikia chochote alichowaambia CCM! Au alisema haya haya?
     
  11. Mtanganyika

    Mtanganyika JF-Expert Member

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    FMES, heshima mbele mkuu.
    Hili swala la kusema ili Tanzania iendelee inataka 40 more decade linanichanganya. Kwanza Gavana anamaanisha maendelo ya aina gani hapa? Kila Mtanzania kuendesha Lexus? au maendeleo ya kila Mtanzania kuafford kulipa karo, kununua dawa na kujipatia kipato cha kusaidia yeye na familia yake? Kama ni maendeleo ya kuwafanya Watanzania wajitegemee, kupunguza watu wanaoishi below povetry level, na kuongeza production and decrease defecity we can do that in less than 15 years.

    Kinachoimaliza Tanzania sio EPA na sio Buzwagi, kinachoimaliza Tanzania ni CCM. Sasa muheshimiwa Ndulu amekaa ofisini kwa less than 6 month, there is no way in the earth anaweza kuwa amesha analyze data zote na akafika kwenye decision kwamba itatuchukua miaka 80.

    Yapo machache ambayo tukifanya tutafanikiwa. Kwanza ni kupunguza cost za kuendesha serikali, you reduce the budget defecity na kujitaidi kufanya budget surplus. Then unajitaidi kuandaa strategy ambazo zita create more jobs, kama ni kilimo then serikali ina kipa kilimo incentive na kuchannell masoko international. Hapa serikali inafaidika and wakulima wanafaidika.

    Then unavunjilia mbali TRA sababu haifanyi kazi yoyote ya maana zaidi ya kuwabana wauza mitumba. Then ni kuanzisha small organization ambayo itakuwa na check and balance.

    Other thing ni kuicha BoT ifanye kazi za kucontrol pesa na sio kucontrol kila aspect ya uchumi. Then serikali kwa kupitia wizara ya fedha wao wacontrol fiscal policy, yaani tax na mambo mengine.

    Hatuwezi kuendelea kama hatuna check and balance, yaani Waziri wa viwanda anawaweza kuwapa tax cut kampuni ya kuchimba dhahabu sababu ya 10% yake. Ila kama serikali italipa bunge nguvu, bunge likaangalia matumizi ya fedha. Hapo tutapunguza ufujaji wa pesa sababu Bunge linapewa nguvu ya kuhoji kila matumizi, pamoja na kumuhoji muhusika waziri bila ruksa ya raisi au spika.

    Then, kama tutakubali kuchagua watendaji wa serikali sio kwa vyama vyao au itikadi zao za kisiasa bali kwa taaluma zao then tutakwenda mbali. Sababu kuna watanzania wengi sana wanafanya kazi kwenye economic sector mbali mbali duniani lakini hawawezi kupewa chance na serikali yetu sababu ya itikadi zao.

    Mwisho, tunaweza kuturn huu uchumi kama tukipungunza spending yetu, budget defecity, Current Accound defecity, trade defecity. Then tukawapa tax incentive wale wanafungua viwanda na kuwaajiri zaidi ya watu 1000, then tukaongeza uzalishaji wetu ndani ya nchi. Hapa tunaweza kufanya mapinduzi kama yake ya TIGER COUNTRIES.

    Lakini kama wachimbaji wetu wataendelea kuchimba madini na tochi za kumulikia wezi, na wakulima wetu wataendelea kulima kwa mkono, na mawaziri wetu wataendelea kufanya maamuzi yao wenyewe then we will never ever change our economy.

    We need someone who will run that country kama kiwanda cha karne ya 21, na sio kama kiwanda cha 1960s.
     
  12. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    FMES, you have presented a sound argument, however I disagree and disregard his projections as there no assurances at hand within it. In my opinion, the gentleman has just issued a blanket statement to cover all evildoers for the next 30 to 40 years. You see bruv, he could lament in such a way if he was to be sure from now on, no one in government offices will get involved in money scams and sabotages that leave the ordinary Tanzania bearing the blunt of life.

    I believe economic growth can be felt by the ordinary citizen in less than 8 years. But the case for Tanzania is rather impossible because professionals don't seem to prioritize on sound mechanisms to forge the development of our country ahead. I'll give an example, it is the very BoT that epitomizes the glossy miscarriage of priority. At the heart of scandals in the country, they have facilitated the pilferage of tax payers money by entering into agreement with overpriced lawyers. They have been at the center of EPA scam, as that isn't disapointing enough, their priority is to work and live in high flier twin tower enclosures that double as one of the most overpriced buildings in the world.

    Yes I said 8 years, in fact 15 years will be more than adequate to change the face of whole country if strategies for development are followed to the letter. If you recall, early in 2000 they came up with millennium challenges, and they earmarked 2015 as the year to have eliminated abject poverty in the country. Later on, through misconduct and loss of focus they upped that target to 2020. And what i see here is another goal shifting because of mismanagement and incompetence. I don't wanna single him out, but if he's firm enough to give such a blanket statement, it shows how much he has consulted the other parties and confirmed their unwillingness to opt for earlier economic impact in the country than what is being currently heralded.

    8 years is a two term for government in America and elsewhere. Can't we really see the impact in their economy that can be achieved within these two terms? Fair enough, America as an example might be an overkill, but see our neighbor, Mozambique... at what rate their economy is growing.... see the case for Angola... and to highlight how frivolous we've become, both countries have suffered protracted wars. Tanzania was in war late 70s, but to this day, the projection for economic relief are scaled at 30 to 40 years. Are we serious?!!

    Ni miaka mingapi inaweza kutumika kujenga mabarabara yote ya miji mikuu kuu katika kiwango cha lami? Ni kiasi gani cha pesa kinachopungua ambacho kama si kujenga twin towers kingeweza kujenga sewage system ya mikoa yote bongo? Ni kiasi gani cha pesa kinahitajika kujenga viwanda vya kusindika matunda na mazao mengine? Ni kiasi gani cha pesa kinahitajika kujenga na kuzilink trunk roads zote bongo na itatumia muda gani kuzijenga? Ni priority gani ambazo tunaweka katika infrastructure za kuwezesha wananchi wapate maendeleo ya haraka?

    Badala yake tunajenga BoT twin towers, tunaendesha makongamano kibao yasiyo mwisho wala matunda na kugharimu hela kibao. Tunaendekeza kusafiri kwenye magari ya kifahari eti kwa sababu barabara zetu ni mbovu....

    FMES, subiri niishie hapa mkuu, maana hasira zitaanza kunipanda bure. Laters.


    SteveD.
     
  13. A

    Alpha JF-Expert Member

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    If the Asian Tigers could do this why can't we?

    40 years ago South Korea (which is a tiny country with no resources) was as poor as we are now. Now they have the 11th largest economy in the world. Why can't we make it to the top 50 in 10-15 years? We have plenty of resouces, peace and people (although we need to build a more educated populace).

    What we are missing is leaders with vision and a can do attitude. A sense of urgency is needed.
     
  14. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Lakini wenzako wanaona EPA ndio deal. Ona jinsi wanavyofukuzana na watu wakidai hizo bil 133 kana kwamba zenyewe ndio siri ya utajiri wa nchi hii. Wameacha kufanya mambo ya maana kama uliyoyasema katika mchango wako, wanafuzana na wezi! Tutafika kweli?
     
  15. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Yeah yeah yeah......
     
  16. Gembe

    Gembe JF-Expert Member

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    In just Dont wonder why this Prof. is saying this,if you can remember when Georgr tald african leader when he first came into power.'America was like africa 100 years ago'.so it is the same thing.

    unajua mpaka leo huwa najiuliza ni kitu gani kizuri kimebadilika Afrika mpaka bush akakupenda hivi??
     
  17. Nzokanhyilu

    Nzokanhyilu JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi bado kuna watu wanaamini Afrika itakuja kuendelea? Let alone tanzania?
     
  18. Kapinga

    Kapinga JF-Expert Member

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    End of the day..we are to blame!! Zimbabwe, Kenya, South Africa, Nigeria...due to the lack of accountability in those governments kumekuwa na strong activists (mostly educated individuals wenye uchungu na nchi zao) ..wanapigwa kila kukicha but they get the message through and serikali inafikiria marambili knowing they are being watched! Tanzania hatuna activists tuna magazeti tuu (which can be bought!!)...TUKUBALI WATANZANIA SISI WAOGA WA KU FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS MPAKA DADA ZETU NA MAMA ZETU WABAKWE AU WAFE NJAA SIJUI NDO TUTAKUWA WATENDAJI??

    Jamani tumeona kwamba serikali yetu hawajiwajibishi, basi inabidi sisi kama wasomi wananchi wazalendo tuchukue nafasi ya kuwawajibisha!!

    Lasi ivyo tutaongea na CCM watendelea kushinda (funds wanazo BOT, Polisi, JESHI NI UOZO wa miaka mingi...viongozi wetu wametusahau??)

    I might be sounding radical au kama mpinzani lakini hata nyie wanaccm ...mlijua scandal zote before upinzani..wot did u do? nothing..interests of the party over the people...TUANZE KUWA WAKWELI NA WATENDAJI LASI IVYO TUKACHUKUE PHD ZA SIASA TUU..cz humu tutaongea mpaka uzeeeni...
     
  19. DMussa

    DMussa JF-Expert Member

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    Well said....
    To me i think Benno is just trying to save the necks of wale jamaa waliotufikisha hapa tulipo.
     
  20. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    chukuwa hizo hela za EPA X 1000 wape watanzania badowatakuwa maskini. the issue here ni macroeconomic policies.. pamoja nakujenga microeconomy. tanzania ni wakulima, wakulima ndio maskini wakubwa... tuanze kwakusaidia kilimo... 80% ya business in tanzania iko DAR!?! wakati dar hakuna kitu kinacholimwa zaidi ya bustani za michicha.haha... Tuhangaike na elimu, afya, kupambana na ukimwi... then in 40 years or so tutaona ka mbadiliko.. at the same time tujaribu kuinvite foreign investment..yani viwanda sio watu wanakuja kuchimba minerals alafu wanaship macontainer.. huo ni upuuzi..!

    kinachotakiwa hapa nisacrifice.. na kweli it wil take 40 years for the average tanzanian to feel the difference... Sio uongo. Huyu jamaa kaongea kamma economist, hata wakianza kuchimba mafuta, it still takes time. nagalia chad, sudan, nigeria.. pamoja na kwamba corruption is a problem.. it still takes a long time.. wanaJF acheni jazba zenu..its called economics...
     
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