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Fadhila za Muungano kwa Zanzibar

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Dalali444, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. D

    Dalali444 Member

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    Feb 7, 2010
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    Nd. wana JF,

    Naomba kidogo nitoe maoni machache kuhusu hoja zinazotolewa mara kwa mara na watu ambao wanashangazwa na manun'guniko ya Muungano. Kuna wale wanaodai kuwa bila ya Muungano Zanzibar itaangamia. Wanadai kuwa Zanzibar haiwezi kujitegemea na kwa hivyo haiwezi kusimama kama nchi huru.Wanadai Serikali ya Muungano(kwa maana ya Tanzania Bara) inapata hasara sana kuibeba Zanzibar na kulipa gharama nyingi zikiwemo za ulinzi na usalama na hata baadhi ya wakati kusaidia kulipa mishahara ya watumishi wa Serikali ya Mapindizi ya Zanzibar. Kwa madai yao, uhai wa Zanzibar unategemea kubebwa na Tanzania bara na Zanzibar inaihitaji zaidi Tanzania bara na sio Tanzania bara inaihitaji Zanzibar zaidi.

    Sasa kwa nini wazanzibari wengi hawana shukrani na haweshi kuubugudhi Muungano?

    Kwa maoni yangu ni kweli kuwa gharama nyingi za kuendesha Serikali ya Muungano zinabebwa na Tanzania Bara.Huu ni ukweli ulio wazi.Mchango wa Zanzibar kwenye kuendesha Serikali ya Muungano ni mdogo sana. Kwa upande mwengine mtu unaweza kusema ni sawa ndugu zetu wa Bara kulipa hizo gharama za kuendesha Serikali ya Muungano kwa sababu Serikali hiyo ndiyo inayoendesha na kusimamia shughuli zote za Tanzania Bara. Kwa maneno mengine,Serikali ya Muungano pia ni Serikali ya Tanzania bara.

    Vile vile tuangalie maslahi yanayotokana na hiyo Serikali ya Muungano yanakwenda wapi.

    Serikali ya Tanzania,kama zilivyo serikali zote masikini, imekuwa ikitegemea sana misaada kutoka nchi za nje kwa shughuli zake za kimaendeleo zikiwemo ujenzi wa barabara, mahospitali, vyuo vya elimu ya juu na mashule na hata huduma nyengine za kijamii kama vile maji,umeme na kupambana na maradhi.

    Serikali ya Tanzania imekuwa ikiomba na kupokea misaada hii kila mwaka katika kipindi chote cha miaka arubaini na sita ya Muungano. Kila mwaka misaada hii imekuwa ikitiririka Tanzania na tunashuhudia jinsi inavyotumika kuendeleza hizo sekta nilizozitaja hapo juu kwa upande wa Tanzania bara. Sasa ikiwa Zanzibar ni sehemu ya Tanzania kama ambavyo wenzetu wa Tanzania bara hudai wanapoomba hiyo misaada ni kiasi gani hutengwa (kila mwaka) kwa ajili ya Zanzibar?

    Nimeuliza suali hii kwa wanaojua wanasema kwa miaka mingi sana (mpaka katikati ya 1980's) Zanzibar ilikuwa hawapewi kitu. Na mpaka sasa hivi wanachoambulia Zanzibar ni kama pesa anazopewa mtoto kwenda kununua pipi tu ukilinganisha na pesa wanazopata Tanzania bara.

    Hapa naomba kunukuu takwimu hizi chache zinazotokana na hotuba za bajeti za mawaziri wa fedha wa Tanzania.
    'In 2009/10 government expenditure will stand at 9.51 trillion shillings.
    'Aid from foreign donors will stand at 3.182 trillion shillings.'
    Na katika bajeti ya 2007/2008

    A. Domestic Revenue Tshs.3,502billions​

    B. Foreign Grants and Loans Tshs.2,549 billions
    Hizi ni bajeti za miaka miwili tu lakini katika kila mwaka mambo ni hayo hayo. Mtiririko ni huo huo. Asilimia kubwa sana ya bajeti ni misaada kutoka nje.Angalia hizo "trillions" ambazo Tanzania inapewa kila mwaka halafu tujiulize Zanzibar(kama sehemu ya Tanzania) inapewa kiasi gani.Wanaojua mambo wanasema wanachopata Zanzibar ni pesa ya pipi tu katika hizo na ndiyo maana Serikali ya Zanzibar haiwezi kufanya lo lote kubwa la kimaendeleo.


    Kama Zanzibar ingekuwa inapewa haki yake ya hiyo misaada basi ingeweza kupiga hatua kubwa sana na haraka za kimaendeleo na pasingekuwa na haja ya kushindwa kulipa mishahara au kujitegemea Tanzania bara. Ukweli ni kuwa hicho wanachotoa bara kuisaidia Zanzibar ni kidogo mno ukilinganisha na hiyo haki yetu ya misaada ambayo wamekuwa wakitunyima kila mwaka kwa muda wa miaka 46 ya Muungano.

    Wanaojua mahesabu watusaidie tuone ni trilioni ngapi wametudhulumu na Zanzibar ingekuwa wapi kwa trilioni hizo. Na jee kama Zanzibar ingekuwa huru na inapewa moja kwa moja hayo matrilioni ya misaada(kama wanavyopewa nchi zote maskini duniani), kweli barabara zetu zingekuwa na mashimo? Kweli hospitali zetu zingekuwa na magodoro yaliyooza na wagojwa kulala chini? Kweli tungekuwa na upungufu wa madaktari na wataalamu wengine?Kweli watoto wetu wangekuwa wanakaa chini maskuli?

    Hapa nimegusia misaada ya pesa tu, sijaingia kwenye misaada mengine kama vile nafasi za mosomo nje (scholarships) ambazo kila mwaka humwagwa kwa maelfu na takriban zote hupewa watanzania bara. Ukitembea kwenye nchi nyingi wanafunzi watanzania waliojazana vyuoni ni vijana kutoka Tanzania Bara.Mzanzibari ni mmoja kwa elfu. Hili sitolijadili hapa. Ni mada nyengine.

    Dalali
     
  2. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    Dalali, kwanza karibu, maana hii ni post yako ya kwanza ukishuka na nondo nzito supported na Data.

    Kwa mujibu wa structure ya muungano, tuna serikali mbili, ya JMT na ya SMZ, kila mtu atauchukua mzigo wake mwenyewe. Kwa vile mambo ya nje ni ya muungano, misaada inayotoka nje, Zanzibar inapata mgao wake kama Tabora na Shinyanga, ndani ya muungano, Zanzibar is nothing special hivyo hicho inachopata ndio stahili yake.

    Angalizo, kila issue za muungano zikija, wenzetu wanajazba sana, hivyo lazima uwe mvumilivu kumeza the bitter with the sweet.
     
  3. Kubwajinga

    Kubwajinga JF-Expert Member

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    Wazanzibari hawahitajiki kushukuru kwa kuwamo ndani ya Muungano. Wanaopiga kelele ni kwa kutotaka kukabiliana na ukweli wa matatizo ya Zanzibar au ni makelele yenye mrengo wa kisiasa tu. Zanzibar hata kama ingekuwa haipati sehemu ya misaada inayoletwa kupitia serikali ya muungano, ni aibu kwa muungwana kudai kuwa Zanzibar inashindwa kuendelea kwa kukosa misaada. Kwani ni nchi gani iliyowahi kuendelea kwa kutumia nguvu za wengine (misaada)?
     
  4. k_u_l_i

    k_u_l_i Senior Member

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    Dalali444 - inawezekana Zanzibar bila ya muungano ingelifanikiwa kukusanya misaada zaidi. Pengine hiyo ni hasara kwa Zanzibar lakini mara nyingi ukiongelea hasara inabidi uzungumzie na faida ambazo Zanzibar inapata ndani ya Muungano kama vile ulinzi au soko kubwa la bara na mengineyo. Kama alivyoongea Kubwajinga nchi haiwezi kuendea kwa kutegemea misaada. Tatizo la Zanzibar na Tanzania kwa ujumla sio muungano bali ni uongozi. Tatizo la barabara zenye mashimo au wagojwa kulala chini linaonekana kila pembe ya Tanzania sio Zanzibar peke yake.

    ¬K
     
  5. BUSARA6

    BUSARA6 JF-Expert Member

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    Subiri kidogo watakueleza nchi haiendelei kwa kutegemea misaada, wakati asilimia kubwa ya bajeti ya SMT ni kupitisha bakuli nchi za nje. Huu ni unafiki!
     
  6. P

    Pakacha JF-Expert Member

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    Tunaelewa kuna watu nkama nyinyi ambao mnageuza JMT kuwa Jamhuri ya Maendeleo ya Tanganyika. Lakini sasa mtakiona ama kusuka au kunyoa
     
  7. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Hapo nilipopiga bold jibu lake basi hiyo misaada yote ipelekeni Zanzibar au ikataliwe....

    Tanganyika au Tanzania haiendelei na wala haitoendelea hadi wananchi wake waamke kutoka kwenye usingizi mzito na changa la macho walopigwa na ghost wa Nyerere....and I mean it :cool:

    Watanzania ni katika watu ambao wamelala sana, sio katika kujenga nchi au kuleta maendeleo kwa kila kitu hadi sport.Hivi ni lini Tz imepata angalau nafasi ya kuingia kombe la afrika?...Malawi ni majuzi tuu tumewaona.Hii sio bure, kwasababu Malawi hawakutawaliwa na Nyerere.

    Trust me, kama Tz isingelitawaliwa na Nyerere tungekuwa mbali sana sasa hivi kimaendeleo.Hoja za msingi:

    #Kusingelikuwa na muungano...hii watu wengi wanapoteza muda kujadili muungano na jinsi ya kutatua kero.Nilishasema awali, hatuna uwezo wa kufix complexity ya muungano.Upo kweli, lakini una matatizo chungu mbovu.

    #Kama Nyerere asingelitawala Tz, basi tusingelipoteza miaka 22 wadanganyika wakimtizama bila ya kumfanya kitu.Hii miaka 22 tungelikuwa mbali sana!

    #Kielimu Nyerere alidumaza kila sekta kuhakikisha kila mtu anakuwa mjinga ili apate kusikiliza kasumba zake.Kama Nyerere asingelitawala, basi wasomi wangekuwa wengi na tungeweza kupiga hatua.

    ...Vipi?Hoja zengine zitaendeleo toleo jengine :eek:
     
  8. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #8
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    Dalali444,..tafuta kitabu chenye title 'The Political Plight of Zanzibar'. kina makala za wasomi wa Uchumi na Sociology waliotafiti kuhusu utegemezi wa Zenj kwa Tanganyika. kitabu hicho kimehaririwa na Prof.Teddy Malyamkono.

    ..makala hii hapa chini inatoa muhtasari wa yaliyomo ktk kitabu hicho.


    ZANZIBAR A DRAIN ON UNION ECONOMY

    The astronomical rise of Zanzibar’s financial dependence on the mainland government is the latest wave of criticism levelled at the Tanzanian union by leading academics.

    They quantify the dependence at nearly 835 million US dollars in transfers between 1983-84 and 1998-99 in a new publication, entitled ‘The Political Plight of Zanzibar’, launched after a two-year study in the island.

    “This, as the book points out, is equivalent to the mainland giving every Zanzibari a gift of 1,202 dollars a year, or roughly five years of Tanzania’s per capita Gross National Product,” Teddy Maliyamkono, the publication’s editor, says.

    “It is also equal to the average total annual revenue of Zanzibar’s government during the past six years,” he adds.

    Further questions are raised as to why the Zanzibari constitution refuses the semi-autonomous state to contribute to the union budget although the union bore the expenses of supporting its annual balance of payments deficit.

    “By refusing to pay and making it their constitutional right not to, Zanzibar is implicitly denouncing the union. Now the question is, why is the mainland Tanzania paying a fortune to keep the union unless they have an immeasurable intrinsic love for the people of Zanzibar!” Maliyamkono, a political scientist, says in the book.

    “It is argued in some quarters that the political and economic costs of letting Zanzibar go on its own, could, by far, outweigh present transfers and benefits which accrue to Zanzibar from the union,” he adds.

    Maliyamkono notes that the mainland sends much money to Zanzibar, and subsidises its power consumption.

    Some of the transfers, like smuggling, tax evasion and the money sent into the island by Zanzibaris working on the mainland, are invisible and cannot be quantified.

    “From the economic point of view, there is no denying that it is Zanzibar that needs the union more than mainlanders do. The union is Zanzibar’s livelihood, there is no Zanzibar without the union,” he points out.

    The political marriage of Tanganyika and Zanzibar in 1964 has been plagued by a plethora of operational problems.

    Zanzibar, which is heavily dependent on cloves to sustain its economy, has been complaining that the mainland is benefiting too much from the union and that it should, in the spirit of its ’sovereignty,’ be allowed to have its own flag.

    But according to the authors of the book, there is no denying that it is Zanzibar that needs the union the most.

    Maliyamkono warns that dissolution of the union would be economically disastrous to Zanzibar.
     
  9. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Pengine la kujiuliza ni kwanini mainland wakubali kubeba mzigo?....sisi huku Zanzibar tunaomba ushushwe!
     
  10. takashi

    takashi JF-Expert Member

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    if, that is the case ,then it shows how stupid you are (tanganyika).
     
  11. King Zenji

    King Zenji Senior Member

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    ,,,,,,Naona hapa ni DATA kwa DATA,patamu hapa.
     
  12. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    takashi,

    ..hujatutendea haki hata kidogo wa-Tanganyika.

    ..ulichopaswa kufanya ni kutushukuru, kama ulivyo utamaduni wa wa-Zenj, pale wanapositiriwa na kufadhiliwa.
     
  13. D

    Dalali444 Member

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    Jokakuu na Majoka Madogo,

    Mimi sina haja ya kutafuta kitabu cha Maliyamkono wala Maliyamguu. Ukweli naujua kuliko huyo Maliyamkono.Wewe tafuta hicho kitabu halafu nipe quotations zinazoonesha Tanzania imepata misaada kiasi gani katika kipindi cha miaka 46 ya Muungano kisha na Zanzibar imepewa kiasa gani kama "equal partner" wa Muungano. Hapo ndipo tutakapooona nani kamdhulumu na anaendelea kumdhulumu mwenziwe katika hiyo "partneship". Vyenginevyo maneno ya Maliyamkonio ni kasumba zile zile za kikoloni ambazo wakiwaawaambia wanaowatawala kuwa tukiacha kuwatawala Mutaangamia, na wengine wakiamini wakisema "hatutaki uhuru.". Huyo Maliyamkono inabidi akasome vitabu vya historia ataona kuwa Zanzibar imedumu na kujiendesha bila ya kutegemea Tangayika wala nchi nyenigine ye yote kwa makarne mpaka 1964 ilipowekwa chini ya himaya ya Tanganyika. Na mpaka 1980's ilikuwa haidaiwi na nchi ye yote ile, kinyume na Tanganyika ambayo mpaka kesho ni madeni matupu na haitakwenda po pote bila ya misaada ya 40% kila mwaka. Kaeleza hayo kwenye kitabu chake?
    Anadai hizo pesa ni nyingi kuliko mapato ya Zanzibar. Sasa anategemea Zanzibar iwe na mapato gani wakati imekuwa "cut-off from the rest of the world, economically and diplomatically".
     
  14. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    Dalali444,

    ..katika jukwaa la kuelimishana kama Jamii Forums huna haja ya kutumia maneno ya kejeli kama kuniita "majoka madogo" au kumdhihaki mwanazuoni Prof.Malyamkono, na kumuita "maliyamguu."

    ..kwanza kabisa, Tanganyika kuna wananchi milion 30, na Zenj mko milioni 1 na ushee. katika mazingira hayo hakuna uwezekano wa kuwa na "equal partnership." Zenj inabidi ikubali tu kuwa "junior parter" pamoja na kwamba iliwahi kuwa dola yenye nguvu zama zile za biashara ya utumwa.

    ..kama hukubaliana na maandiko ya Prof.Malyamkono, amesaidiwa na wasomi wengine wengi wa uchumi na sociology, kuhusu utegemezi wa Zenj kwa Tanganyika, basi tafuta hotuba za bajeti za serikali ya Mapinduzi na zile za serikali ya Muungano. hotuba hizo zina maelezo ya Mawaziri wa Fedha kuhusu kiwango cha fedha za misaada kwa serikali ya Jamhuri[Tanganyika na Zenj] na kiwango cha misaada kinachopelekwa Zenj.

    ..pia ukishapata kiwango cha misaada ambacho Waziri wa Fedha wa Zenj anadai mnapewa, itapendeza kama utalinganisha na wenzenu mnaofanana-fanana nao kama Comoro wanapewa misaada kiasi gani.

    ..mwisho, naomba utafute data za TRA kuhusu makusanyo ya kodi kimikoa. linganisha makusanyo ya kodi baina ya Zenj na vituo vingine kama Arusha na Mwanza ili tuweze kujua kiwango cha uchumi cha Zenj.

    NB:

    ..matatizo ya Zenj ni zaidi ya Muungano. sasa mnapaswa kuyashughulikia matatizo hayo mengine wakati tukiendelea kutafuta suluhisho la Muungano wetu.
     
  15. Wacha1

    Wacha1 JF-Expert Member

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    Huna sababu ya kwenda mbali Zanzibar ni kisiwa cha viongozi. Hawa wote wabunge sijui wawakilishi wa baraza la mapinduzi etc etc wanalipwa kwa pesa ya walipa kodi na ratio uki-compare na Bara wana viongozi wengi sana kuna haja ya kuwapunguza.
     
  16. D

    Dalali444 Member

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    Jokakuu na Majoka Madogo,
    Mimi sina haja ya kutafuta kitabu cha Maliyamkono wala Maliyamguu. Ukweli naujua vizuri kama wanavyoujua Wazanzibari wengi.

    Wewe tafuta hicho kitabu halafu utupe "quotes" zinazoonesha ni kiasi gani cha Matrilioni Tanzania imepokea kama misada katika kipindi chote cha miaka 46 wa huu Muungano ambao ni "equal partnership" baina ya NCHI mbili HURU (Tanganyika na Zanzibar) halafu tuone ni kiasi katika hizo Zanzibar imepata. Hapo ndipo tutaona ukweli nani anamdhulumu nani. Bila ya hivyo mambo wanayozungumza hawa si mapya.Wanaimba nyimbo zile zile za kikiloni ambao walikuwa wakiwaambia wanaowatawala kila mara kuwa bila ya msaada wa mkoloni, nchi itaangamia. Wakoloni wakisema hayo mpaka baadhi ya watawaliwa wakawa wanaamini na wakikubali kutumiwa na wakoloni kupingana na wenzao waliokuwa wakipiga kelele kudai uhuru. Sasa haya ndiyo wanayotwambia hawa kina Maliyamkono. Eti "Without Tanzania there is no Zanzibar" !!!! Ah !!

    Nafikiri wanaohitaji kutafuta vitabu na habari sahihi ni hawa waandishi ambao hawafahanmu ukweli kuwa Zanzibar imekuwa ikijitegemea na kujiendesha yenyewe bila ya msaada wa Tanganyika au nchi nyengine kwa karne nyingi, mpaka 1964 ilipowekwa chini ya himaya ya Tanganyika. Sidhani kama wanafahamu kuwa mpaka miaka ya mwisho ya 1970's Zanzibar ilikuwa haidawi hata shilingi na nchi ye yote ile. Ni mataifa mangapi duniani na hasa ya kiafrika yenye rekodi kama hiyo?

    Eti wanadai kuwa pesa wanazopewa Zanzibar zinapindukia mapato yao !! Sasa wanategemea Zanzibar ambayo iko "under siege" itakuwa na mapato gani wakati imekuwa "cut-fof from the rest of the world, politically, economically, diplomatically, socially,etc,etc,etc)?
    Danganyeni watoto wadogo sisi wenye ndevu zetu tunaijua mbivu na mbichi.
     
  17. D

    Dalali444 Member

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    Na hiyo Tanzania bara/Tanganyika ni lini imejiedesha yenyewe tangu kupata uhuru? Si kila mwaka inaomba misaada kila pembe ya dunia na karibu 40% ya bajeti yake ni misaada? Sasa hao kina Maliyamkono wamesema pia kwenye kitabu chao kuwa "Without donor aid, there is no Tanzania"? Na mapendekezo yao ni nini, iungane na Kenya.
    Halafu musianiambie kuwa kwa kuwa Zanzibar ina watu kidogo haiwezi kuwa "equal partneship". Nchi ni nchi na lazima zinapoingia kwenye umoja iwe ni kwa misingi ya "equal partneship". Mbona India imepewa kiti kimoja na kura moja tu kwenye United Nations sawa na Tanzania bila ya kujali Idadi ya watu wala ukubwa wa nchi? Na China je idai viti vingapi?
     
  18. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Zanzibar mwaka 1800 zanzibar ilikuwa inauchumi uliokuwa ukijitegemea na walikuwa na zanzibar ruppe ambayo ilikuwa ni sawa sawa 1 rupee = 73.6 (According to Catalogue of World Paper Money). Bare in mind Tsh ilikuwa chini sana kuliko Zanzibar shilingi.

    According to economic figures estimates show that 1.5 East African Shilling = 1 Zanzibar rupee in 1936. East African Shilling was the currency of three british colonial states Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika .Therefore you can imagine how rich and wealthy their currency was highest among the entire three east african states.

    Let us come to economic activities 1960s and 1970s it is estimated that Zanzibar was leading clove producers of cloves contributing almost 80% of the entire global clove productions (See Edmund Sanders LA Times). We do not know how the money that were obtain from clove exportation went to what department in Muungano Government.

    Clove was among the major highly demand products in world, and Zanzibar was supplying 80% of the global markets unlike now they are just supplying 7% and Indonesia is supplying 75% of global cloves market. But what realy happen in Zanzibar???

    According to Edmund LA Times (2005) this is what he said and I quote "Zanzibar's clove industry has been crippled by a fast-moving global market, international competition and a hangover from Tanzania's failed experiment with socialism in the 1960s and '70s, when the government controlled clove prices and exports".

    From these facts and reference I have several observation about Nyerere and Zanzibar. One he new that if joined with Zanzibar he will definitely help to boost Tanganyika economy since they were at cripple state. Kwa kuifafanua zaidi Tanganyika uchumi wake ulikuwa chini kuliko Zanzibar hivyo basi alijua kuwa akiunganisha zanzibar na Tanganyika itanyanyua uchumi wake na kuwa juu (Kama WaEU wanavyomng'angania Mjerumani na Muingereza kwasababu wanajua faida za kuwa nao katika sarafu na uchumi wao). Pili Nyerere new that akikiacha kisiwa hicho kingeliendelea vibaya sana na pengine Tanganyika wasingeliweza hata kukifikia hivyo basi wakaona wakiunganishe na Tanganyika ili pesa za cloves zimezwe na Tanzania Union Government halafu zanzibar itumike kama cash cows without anything in return. Ingelikuwa zile pesa zimeenda zanzibar moja kwa moja wangelianzisha viwanda, kuboresha huduma za jamii na pengine wangeliboresha kilimo chao kikawa cha kisasa zaidi. But instead Tanganyika government iliitumia zanzibar kama cash cows kuchuma pesa halafu hawawapi kitu pesa zikienda serikali ya muungano.

    Tatu, destroy the trust on each other. Hii ilipandikizwa kwa maksudi ili kuzorotesha shughuli za maendeleo kwasababu according to Adam Smith man cannot exist by himself. Sasa kama wazanzibar wangelisameheana hivyo basi wangelifahamu adui yao nani na hivyo kuanzisha shughuli za maendeleo kwa jamii yao. Sasa ili kuzorotesha maendeleo Nyerere akapindikiza politics za ubaguzi akijua kwakuwa kuna chuki ya zamani katika biashara za utumwa hiyo itasaidia kuzurotesha uchumi wa zanzibar.

    Nitahamia katika mchango wa BOT zanzibar na uchumi wa Tanzania kwa ujumla halafu muone haki iko wapi!!!!!
     
  19. Prodigal Son

    Prodigal Son JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Feb 10, 2010
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    Tatizo la hawa watu sijui wanataka nini, wakumbuke Tanganyika ni kubwa na mahitaji pia ni makubwa, mfano barabar,maji, umeme etc, then nyie wazanzibari mnachangia shillingi ngapi kwenye jeshi la polisi, JWTZ, usalama wa anga, uhamiaji, taasisi zote zimejiestablish vizuri huko unguja na pemba zinaendeshwa kwa kodi za mtanganyika hilo hamlioni mnalalama tukama mnataka msaada na nyie kaombeni, Mnakera sana,
     
  20. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Feb 10, 2010
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    Ukubwa wa nchi mzee ni ukubwa wa kiuchumi na nguvu ya kijeshi na sio ukubwa wa eneo tu!!! Japan ni kijisiwa kidogo hakifiki hata 1/3 ya china but kinajulikana kama ni moja za nchi zenye nguvu kubwa ya kiuchumi na kijeshi wewe vipi mbona unatoka mapovu!!!!. Ingelikuwa hivyo mzee Brazil ina eneo kubwa kuliko England na Japan. Mataifa makubwa duniani yangelikuwa ni China, Marekani, Brazil, Congo, na Australia acha kufuka mzee!!!

    Unataka kuniambia hufahamu tu wazanzibar wanataka nini!!! wanataka chao na uhuru wao!!! Kama muungano uwapo lakini kila mmoja na maamuzi yake na sio sasa hivi. Ikishindikana muungano uvunjike hauna faida kwa wazanzibari!!!
     
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