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Elimu ya Tz

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Elimu (Education Forum)' started by mtafungwa, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. m

    mtafungwa Member

    #1
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    Salaams. Mie nasikitika sana kuona kwamba kumbe mfumo wetu wa elimu uliundwa kwa lengo moja tu, nalo ni kuwafanya watanzania wawe na mtindio wa akili. Unamaliza chuo, unapata cheti kizuri halafu kampuni la mwekezaji linakuambia huna maarifa ya kutosha kupata ajira kwangu. Halafu linasema hata kiingereza hujui sawasawa kwa hiyo hamna kazi...tunatafuta wenye ujuzi kenya. Tufanye mapinduzi gani kuokoa mfumo wa elimu Tz?
     
  2. Gurta

    Gurta JF-Expert Member

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    Umeligundua tatizo ila kwa makusudi au bahati mbaya umeamua kutokutaka kusema nini kifanyike. Naona muendlezo wa kile ambacho tayari unakiamini kuwa hata elimu uliyo nayo haikusaidii kubadili hali ya yako binasfi na ya jami yako.

    Nachotaka kusema ni kuwa, kwa tuhuma hizo hapo juu kuhusiana na mfumo wa elimu hapa TZA ulipaswa pia uwe na njia mbadala ya kubadili hali. Uziweka hapa njia mbadala hizo ili tuzijadili kwa kuhusianisha na mfumo uliopo sasa.

    Inabidi tufike pahala na kutambua kuwa LAWAMA hazitasaidia katika kubdali jinsi mambo yanavyofanywa.
     
  3. m

    mtafungwa Member

    #3
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    Kwanza, nashukuru kwa jibu lako zuri. Pili, hujanipa pole kwanza kabla ya kunirushia mibomu. Tatu, hapa ndiyo mahali pa kujadili swala hilo ikiwa ni pamoja na kuzitafuta hizo njia mbadala. Mwisho, hizo nilizotoa si LAWAMA bali ni dukuduku. Nawasilisha.
     
  4. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    This are general comments..

    Hapo kwenye red nadhani ndipo penye shida,
    1). Unamaliza chuo: Elimu haina mwisho, kujiendeleza kielimu kusiishie pale mtu amefanya graduation na kupata hand-shake ya kiongozi fulani. Jiendeleze wewe mwenyewe na siyo tu kufuata syllabus bali katika mambo mengi tu ambayo yatakusaidia kikazi na kimaisha. Wengi labda wakishamaliza level fulani ndio basi, personal development endevours hazifanyiki, mfano, miaka mingi tu tunasema lugha za kigen i kwetu ni shida sana, sasa tumefanyaje kutatua hilo tatizo, zaidi ya kupotema muda mwingi kuangalia na kuzungumzia mechi za europa, nadhani muda huo ungetumika kujiendeleza, lini umechukua novel au reading material yoyote zaidi ya gazeti la sani/Udaku?
    Ndio elimu nia moja ni kupata ajira, lakini pia itumike kujiendeleza mwenyewe.

    2). Cheti kizuri:
    Hicho cheti kinatumia kiwango kipi, je 30% ni pass mark?
    Cheti katika kutambua ujuzi na uwezo wa mtu kwenye ajira ni %ge ndogo sana, je katika hiyo ajira, upo tayari kuelimishwa au umefurahia cheti ulichonacho, zaidi ya cheti, ni nini umefanya kujiongezea uwezo kikazi, kielimu na kwa ujumla.

    Mapinduzi...
    Comments nyingi hapa JF huonekana punde matokeo ya mitihani yanapotoka, manunguniko mengi tu, lakini inaonekana kuwa hamna chochote hubadirika kwani next time, tunaongelea yale yale. mapinduzi itabidi yawe ya mtu mmoja mmoja kuona na kudhamini umuhimu wa elimu.
    Tutalalamika kuwa wenye nazo wanaweza kuwasomesha watoto wato shule private, ndio, lakini je hizo private au International ni jina tu au kweli kuna level tofauti na shule za kata. Mzazi mlezi tumia muda wako kuhakiki kuwa mtoto anaambulia kitu shuleni at least kila siku. Mzazi/mlezi kushinda baa na kuwa mkali endapo mtoto ataomba pesa za kununua vitu muhimu vya elimu wewe unakuja juu na baadae kuilaumu serikali kwa ujinga ulioufanya mwenyewe sidhani kutatusaidia.

    Labda kuna ishu ya ukweli kuhusu ajira za makampuni fulani na upendeleo usio wa lazma kwa watu wanaotoka nchi zingine, kutatua hili ni kuwa wawajibikaji tunapopata hizi kazi, na kujua kuwa ukishaipata hiyo kazi basi isiwe mwisho wa kujiendeleza kielemu pia.


    All the best in your job hunting efforts...
     
  5. Sir H

    Sir H JF-Expert Member

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    Let me first use ths opportunity to spray fantastic thnks for jf members'ability to thnk&consider! Mm n mmoja wa candidates 4m4 tuliohtimu mwka jana! Wakati nlipokuwa shule,kuna mwl mmoja wa kikenya aliwah kutuambia kuwa,mfumo wetu wa Elimu ulharbiwa hapo awal baada ya Mzee,baba wa taifa kuhalalisha kuwa,alikuwa na lengo la kuanzisha elimu kwa watanzania ili wajue kuhesabu,kusoma na kuandika tu na akatuambia kuwa leo hii if u wanna to control an investigations waweke pamoja Mtza na mkenya thn ask thm to write down an essay of a certain topic! Utagundua kuwa,Mtza ni m2 matata sana kwnye kuandika kulko mkenya n all's b,se ndo tulivyofundishwa(kuhesabu,kusoma&kuandika)! After then,haohao wawil wape debate tu tena nyepec thn allow thm to give out points n ask to analyze their points! Smthng u'll investigate that Wakenya n wataalamu wazuri sana wa kuzungumza kulko watza n hii n kw sbb wao ndivyo wanavyofundishwa! Pia ki2 kingne yule mwl alisema,"Tanzanians have mixed two languages at the same time,see how poor they are,national language is swahil but they teach their young generations using foreign lang,how comes! It's a tyranny to tzans b,se they wanna not to give out serious decisions on matters like these!" Nawasilisha kw kusema kwamba,hebu sasa tufikie sehemu wanajf tujarbu kulijadili hli kikamilifu thn n kipi kifanyike kw nch yetu tuokoe tyranny hzi hii n serious topic,ckuiona hapo awal congltns uliyeligundua hli na kulileta hapa janvin,lkn naamin penye wng hapaharbiki kitu,wanajf tusilipuuze hli!
     
  6. m

    mtafungwa Member

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    Ndugu yangu, naona kabisa umegusa kiini cha tatizo. Kumbe inawezekana si suala la kimfumo kama nilivyodhani kabla. Kiini cha tatizo ni lugha. This is the essence. Lugha ni ufunguo wa kufungulia makabati ya ufahamu. Ukiwa na udhaifu katika lugha maana yake ufunguo wako ni dhaifu na hivyo huwezi kufanikiwa sana kufungua hayo makabati ya utambuzi. Unaweza kujaribu lakini kwa mafanikio kidogo tu. Kwa hiyo ukitaka kumpumbaza mtu, mnyime fursa ya kujifunza lugha ile ambayo ndo ufunguo wa kufungulia vipeto vya utambuzi. Mtoto wa shule hapa bongo ananyimwa fursa hiyo hasa yule ambaye hayuko katika shule tunazoita English medium schools. Mtoto huyu, kwa kukosa fursa hiyo, anaongezeka mwili na umri huku akikosa fursa ya kujipatia maarifa. Anapojitahidi kusoma na kuelewa ndo kwanza anaishia kukariri badala ya kuelewa. Asante.
     
  7. m

    mtafungwa Member

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    Eh mheshimiwa, yaani umeenda mbali kweli. Lakini nashukuru kwa huo mhadhara mzuri. Nitajitahidi ku skim mhadhara mzima huenda nikagundua hoja yako ya msingi ni ipi...cheers!
     
  8. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    Ndugu yangu ni hasira niliyonayo kuhusu swala la elimu Tanzania. Tumelalamika kuwa serikali haitimizi wajibu wake, lakini tunasahau kuwa pasipo sisi wenyewe kujali nini kinaendelea mashuleni na kuwapa support yakutosha walimu basi tunakuwa wa wimbo ule lue, kila mwaka. Tunadanganywa na sisi wenyewe kujidanganya na pale tunajikuta "real world" haioni maana ya elimu tuliyonayo basi, inakuwa ni huzuni tupu.
     
  9. k

    katoto Member

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    Mar 7, 2012
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    Point noted Sir H
    I dont know how much the Tanzanian education differ from the Kenyan counterpart. But, Tanzanians teachers need to stop thinking that students understands by scaring/scolding them. Instead they should teach to reason with confidence.
    Always let pupils know why 2X2 is 4, with reasoning. Confidence in argument is what lacks among Tanzanians. They are told to only focus on scoring 100% and have a "good certificates".

    I hope this discussion will become important in this forum as we figure out political and social problems we have. Surely the problems Tanzanians are facing now(corruption, poor leadership, poverty, doctors strike etc) are rooted from poor education. People lacking morale and ethics. Things that individual families and school should emphasise rather than just maths and science...
     
  10. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    Katoto et all,
    Can I volunteer an argument that education is an expensive exercise and the reliance on the government to tackle this cost has/is proving to be an uphill struggle and an alternate means to finance education is required.

    The cost of education should still remain equitable, to mean the derived benefit should be realized as a gain on the expenditure incurred. For example, in the so called ST fulani and International schools, fees can amount to tens of millions of shillings per annum at primary and secondary levels (Please don't mention kindergarten here…), now compare that to the derived income that can supposedly be gained from having followed this track of education over a lifetime you will find that the whole exercise becomes futile.
    Not to repeat myself, please see the following article where I tried to work out such numbers with a given school in mind.

    Now, what should the cost be?
    Is the education sector payroll being managed diligently? The answer is a resounding NO, following the on-going saga of ghost workers creaming a chunk of the meager resources available at the moment. Is the payroll size enough? Are there enough teachers for all the subjects that industry is requiring from the new crop of graduating students each year?
    Are the teaching staff valued and accorded the necessary rights to perform their duties beyond telling them "ualimu ni wito".

    For arguments sake, Felix has emerged into the job market at the age of 25, and is looking forward to a 35 yr career, this takes into account the retirement age of 60yrs. Say he is lucky to earn 2M per month that will amount to 840Million over his career period.
    Felix attended schools that cost around 5Mil on average over the years that taking into account all possible costs for education. That will amount to (16yrs X 5Mil) = 80 Mil.
    Taking the cost v the gain of 80Mil v 840Mil, is around a 1/10[SUP]th[/SUP] of the earnings, maybe this is a good number, but picture this, Felix is blessed with 3 children who will using the same figures of their fathers education cost will mean of his 840Mil, that will be used for educating the children will be around 240Mil before they join the job market.

    If my figures are very optimistic, it shows that the reality of simply spending without taking a critical look at this would mean that money is simply being poured down the drain…

    Is there an adequate breath of education provision in the country?
    Name me a technical college and will drop this argument, I need a couple of polytechnics, alternate education provision for those who simply don't need to get to University. Many of the olden day institutions have "matured" or been forced to grow into Universities, offering a milliard of certifications that is laughable at best. This uninformed move have resulted in a vital "engine room" part of education to be discontinued in the country, we all seek to sit air conditioned offices. Forget the spanner wielding sector of any economy and the result is a fragmented education system, never able to meet the needs of the economy.

    What other queries come to mind,

    - What education system and what economy is being serviced?
    - Is there a cheaper alternative for educating our pupils?
    - What capacity is required in industry?
     
  11. Sir H

    Sir H JF-Expert Member

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    Oh poor me,a son of a widow,the so-called,"mlala hoi"! Will we manage to fetch ths expensive education like ths!
    Lkn bro kot,kwa utajiri wa tza Allah aliotujalia c inawezekana kabisa kubadili hii mifumo michovu ya elimu! Mm naona cc hatuna tatzo the problem is an executive we entrusted to give them sovereighnity! They're selfish,greedy n corrupt who rule us for their private benefits!
     
  12. m

    mtafungwa Member

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    I agree with you, however, with reservations. Ngoja nikapate kahawa halafu ntarudi tena uwanjani baadaye kidogo.
     
  13. m

    mtafungwa Member

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    I like your arguments and the main point you've raised on the costs of education in Tz. Indeed, the cost-benefit analysis perspective sheds much light on the nature of our education system. However, let's step down to the real world and see, using our senses, what actually happens on the ground and what is behind it. The crux of the problem may not be so much linked to the cost of education, in practical terms. By saying this, I do not mean that the theoretical cost-benefit analysis approach you espouse is unimportant. It is important but probably not essential. The essence of the problem, in my view, can be traced by analysing the viability of the basic education in our schools. Let's get somewhere beyond costs and benefits. Otherwise, I appreciate your well-thought out ideas and the language fluency with which you've expressed them. Shukran!
     
  14. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    Mar 11, 2012
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    To quantify the "value" in the basic education, one still needs to put the cash in the equation least we end up with the situation where there is the assumption that the more one pays, the better the education is. The current criteria of what is a good school is the English language, and probably a foreign exam being offered at the end of the course. The product of education is learned population, an informed population and at the higher levels a prepared individual capable of performing a given task (post further learning/training). The last product means a reward will be gained in monetary terms hence the cost of achieving this situation of being in earning will be important to be known, least you end up gaining a negative outcome from the whole exercise.

    If you spent 10,000 USD in education say in a particular field, then it goes without saying, you should expect that the outcome betters the 10,000 USD over-time, else the whole spend becomes a waste of time (should say money but will be repeating myself!).
    So what happens if we paid less?
    We will quickly realise that we playing with fire, the neighbouring population will be more educated and would simply muscle in on the jobs in our own country (wait! that is already happening) foreign companies will deem our education output does not meet their requirements hence are forced to bring in foreign resource to meet their goals (well, that is happening too!). and our natural reaction to this should be utter disgust about the system and endeavour to rectify it, and not simply blame the companies and the foreigners.

    I strongly believe that once you have put a value to this issue then, the deemed benefit at the end of the education endeavour will become much more clear and hence the trend we see of an upward match of the fees being imposed by the education establishments continuing the upward ascend could be checked.
    I know education is not necessarily geared to earning at the end of it but that is the reality, long are gone, the days when reading/learning just for the sake of it are gone, our lives are bombarded with loads of distractions (films, games, mind numbing soaps on TV, trivial TV programmes, gossip etc etc)

    Remember my view is that two things need to be in play to permit relevant education to be delivered. Firstly the education providers, schools, teachers and the education ministry need to sing from the same song sheet, multiple syllabus or luck of a clear and concise information of a syllabus hinders the delivery of education. Teachers need to be appreciated in pay and in profession, schools need to be adequately serviced and financed. All this costs money, hence the equitable idea simply means, we should spend/allocate the finances intelligently to achieve a "product" that our economy actually needs, A learned populace to be able to compete in this changing world.

    I am not in education so wouldn't know how the remunerations are for the various levels of the employment, but citing a thread here at JF, a mention of 400,000TSH seems very little pay when you consider that the future of the nation is at stake, why not 1,000,000 for I believe the lowly pay some teachers get results in the apathy felt by many and the results do speak for themselves. Teachers needing to earn outside their stations to make ends meet especially in urban areas, or having to enlist the manpower of the their students to tend their shambas.
    I know the pay issue is more complicated than that so will leave that to those in the know of how much the country coffers can actually afford.

    The fee payment still burdens my mind to note that many people simply assume that paying hefty amounts for the ST Fulani and Internationals this and that is actually benefiting their offspring’s. Well, they will at a minimum converse in the languages but I still don't see how that can justify the costs if the sums outlined above will not be realised post spending all the money.

    More questions.
    -Should education, a backbone of a country be left to the mercy of private interests or should the taxpayer bear the burden of educating the population, and if its OK for privateers to offer education, what would be the best approach to manage their "contribution".
     
  15. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    I can see the govt is making tracks by constructing 28 new vocational colleges. In the same breath, it is struggling to recoup the billions loaned to higher education students... sources IPP media.

    Uungwana ufanyike jamani, kama ulipata mkopo na sasa upo kazini, au unakipato, tafadhali lipa deni lako!!!.
     
  16. Sir H

    Sir H JF-Expert Member

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    Hii mada ni nzito sana lakini napenda iendelee japo umri wngu hauniruhusu kujadili mambo kama haya,napenda sana kuchanganyikana na watu kama nyinyi mliojaa hekima na busara! Mm nimemaliza kidato cha nne mwaka jana tu!
     
  17. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona busara unayo already ya kuona nini ni cha maana hapa JF. Kama mtu aliye kwenye "game" sasa hivi tueleze ni nini unacho'ona kinaendelea katika elimu, je mpaka sasa (form 4), wamekuandaa vipi kuendelea na shule au kazi?
     
  18. Sir H

    Sir H JF-Expert Member

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    Bro kot,leave our gvt be only for the richiest p'ple within our country.See how we suffer in our ward schools,the so-called"yeboyebo".No teachers wth experiance,teaching an learning equipments! The executive starts these schools but they are not well-abled to support them.Apart from that,where do children and relatives of their own accumulate their education? Why could'nt send them in these schools they opened? Why could not show the example to confirm that there's no racism as our father used to say? If they have managed to send their children at the highest expenses,why could not support even these yeboyebo schools?
    Bro kot,there's a great link twixt those who they haves and those who they have-nots.
     
  19. k

    kotinkarwak JF-Expert Member

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    The fact of life is that there will always be the Haves and Have-Nots, but the best balance to be exercised is to allow the Have-Nots the opportunity to have, that is the cycle of life, break it and you priming the nation to an abyss. When such opportunities are deliberately misappropriated by whoever, then there lies a scenario of chaos.
    What are these opportunities I hear you ask, when the realities are seen at the ward schools and atrocious final exams that mark our successes or luck of in the education sector. The opportunities I speak of are our voices that ought to exercise their right once the reality of failing education system has been realized, we see the anger and outrage year in year out as the results are posted for the various stages of education, we cry we deliberate but this doesn't appear to resolve the issues. Is there an education standards authority, one that should be checking what we producing from this mega factory? HAKI-ELIMU is doing their best but the lobbying effort needs to be increased.

    Education facilities have been left to the whims of our so-called social responsibility of the industry, each other week I see photo opps on Issa Michuzi blog of this and that telephone company "donating" desks, a few bags of cement or exercise/text books to various schools, this should be lauded but we are kidding ourselves by entertaining this nonsense. These companies should actually be paying right taxes to the government and some tendencies of evading taxes should be curbed. Only when the government collects adequate taxes will we ever see improvements in the various sectors of our lives.

    Now, should Mheshimiwa Fulani send their kids to ward schools? Well, that is a choice that has successfully been removed from their thinking. Our officials get allocated funds and opportunities to educate their children in private schools, the tax payer foots that bill hence there is no incentive other than a noble one on the side of the individual to pool in with the masses and use the main education system.

    I queried about the right mix of education providers, this I still think is necessary as a recipe for competition and innovation. Public and private providers of education are needed; the question is at what price we as a society differentiate these two. At primary school level 5 (darasa la tano), a public provider and a private one, both using same syllabus but the price difference being 500% plus is laughable, unless I am corrected, I don't see this being right and moral at any level.

    10 -20 years down the road... I despair to think what will happen if this ship is not turned around...
     
  20. Sir H

    Sir H JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Mar 14, 2012
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    Bro,i have completed form four last year and my results show that i scored III-24 and among five who espect to join A-level,i'm the only an artist who i seem to be thought by NECTA.Bro,the problem is that,i have not balanced.

    My results are as shown below;Civ-C,His-A,Kis&Geo-D,Eng-C,Bio-D,Maths-F.The posts are nearby to be anounced and i have great enthusiasm to join F5 in gvt schools b'se i have no money to do otherwise.Bro,i am a father,i am a mother as well as a student.Tell me my brother b'se you tend to be an expert with these issues.Shall i be taken to join? I am totally confused,a son of late Mr Juma.My mother is still alive but now is getting older and older with no money to support me,her only son.Tell me my bro!
     
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