Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Elektron

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Kijakazi, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. Kijakazi

    Kijakazi JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 26, 2008
    Joined: Jun 26, 2007
    Messages: 3,546
    Likes Received: 11
    Trophy Points: 135
    nina swali hapa ambalo ninapenda kujadili na watu wanaoelewa nalo ni kwamba kila mtu anafahamu kwamba atom imejengwa na nucleas ambayo proton (+) na nutron (0), pamoja na elektron (-).
    Na sote tunafahamu kwamba elektron inazunguka nucleas mithili ya sayari zinavyolizunguka jua.
    Sasa swali langu ni kwamba ni kwa nini electron haiangukii kwenye nucleas kwa maana tunafahamu kwamba chaji chanya na hasi zinavutana na ukichukulia kwamba electron ni hasi na nucleas ina chanya kutokana na neutron? na kama hilo halitoshi Je ni kwa nini proton ndani ya nucleas hazipambani na na kusukumana pande mbili tofauti kwani zoote zina chaji ya aina moja (+)!!!!
     
  2. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Nov 26, 2008
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Messages: 3,742
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    Very interesting.

    1. The notion that the electron goes around the nucleas like the planets around the sun is classical and mistaken, the reality is rooted more in quantum mechanics, where everything is a probabilistic blur, and you can only speak in probabilistic terms, therefore in the form of the probability of the electron's wave function. This is due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle which basically restricts the accurate knowledge of an electron's position and acceleration at the same time.The more you know about an electron's position, the less you know about its acceleration and vice versa.

    2. There are four main forces in the universe, the strong nuclear force, electromagnetic force, the weak nuclear force and gravity.

    The strong nuclear force hold the nucleus and subatomic particles together.This is a very strong force since it can hold the nucleus together in the face of the repulsion of the protons.

    The weak nuclear force is what necessitates the buildup of heavy nuclei.

    What you mentioned as "proton kusukumana pande mbili" I think is what happens when despite the regulations of the weak and strong nuclear forces, the imbalance becomes too much and you get radioactivity which is basically the disintegration of the nucleus of an atom.That is why radioactivity is rampant in heavy nuclei (e.g,. Uranium) and unheard of in light nuclei (hydrogen)
     
  3. M

    Mutu JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Messages: 1,333
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Kulingana na swali lako la kwanza ni kwamba ni kweli kuwa eletroni zinashikiliwa ktk njia zake zinazozunguka nyukiliasi kwa kuwa zina chaji hasi na nyukiliasi ina chaji chanya ,na kufanya kufuata ukweli wa kuwa chaji tofauti kuvutana.Na kiasi cha nguvu kinachoshiriki ktk uvutano huu ndio zinafanya na kujipanga njinsi zivyojipanga.Na nguvu hii iki athiriwa hufanya elekroni hizi kusogea karibu na nyukiliasi kama ambavyo unapenda iwe ama kwenda mbali na nyukiliasi.(electonics from one energy layer can jump to higher engergy layer or lower)Pia kuna wakati mwingine eletroni ktk sheli ya mwisho ya atomu (outer most shell) huweza kutoka nje ya uvutano na nyukiliasi na kuwa huru (free electron) na hii ndizo zinahusika ktk kutupatia umeme.
    Kwa hiyo electroni zipo zilipo kutokana na hiyo ikwilibiamu.
    Kingine cha kuzingatia ni kuwa tungamo(mass) ya eletroni ni ndogo sana kulinganisha na ile ya nyukiliasi.Kwa hiyo zina chaji tofauti na tungamo toauti,ili zimezane kama unavyotaka ilibidi ziwe na tungamo sawa na chaji tofauti kusababisha kuwa na nishati sawa na zenye chaji tofauti(equal and opposite charge).
    Kusherehesha hiki vema inabidi kuingia ndani zaidi na kujadili kitu subatomic kiundani,subatomic inahusisha proton ,nutroni(nuetron) na eletroni(electron) .Tunajua nuclues imejengwa na proton na nuetron,na proton na nuetron zimejengwa na kitu kinachoitwa quarks.Proton ina quarks tatu mbili zenye +2/3 na moja yenye -1/3 muunganiko wake unafanya proton kuwa +1.Nuetron ina quarks tatu ,moja chaji +2/3 na mbili chaji -1/3 na kufanya net charge kwa nuetrons kuwa 0.
    Electons zenyewe ni aina ya kitu naitwa leptons ,kwa hiyo electrons ni leptons which are charged(-ve).


    Swali la pili nadhani limejijibu ktk maelezo hapo juu ni kuwa protons na nuetrons kwa sababu haziwezi kuwa na nguvu za kusukumana kwa kuwa protons zina/zimefanywa chaji chanya(+) wakati nuetrons zimefanywa kutokuwa na chaji(0).Hivyo huhusiano wa chaji zinazo fanana kusukumana na na zisizofanana kusukumana hapa hauhusu.

    Notebene:
    Habari kuhusu atom imekuwa kila siku ikiendelezwa quarks na letrons ni matokeo ya karibuni.
    Kuna vitu quantum theory ,quantum mechanic,clasical mechanic unaweza kuangalia kuhusu mambo ya mm nimeyaruka kiasi fulani.

    Zingatia:pahala popote popote palipo andikwa nyukiliasi ni nucleus kama itumikavyo kwa kingeleza.
     
  4. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Apr 2, 2008
    Messages: 2,944
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135
    Zinazunguka, ama ziko pale pale, ama huwezi jua zilipo, ama zina mwendokasi gani, popote pale zilipo, swali ni, kwanini elektroni za chaji hasi hazidumbukii kwenye kiini kilichochaa uchanya ?

    Unaweza kujaribu kusema elektroni haiwezi kushuka kudumbukia kwenye kiini cha uchanya kwa sababu itapoteza nishati, na tunajua haitakiwi kupungukiwa nishati chini ya ngazi ya kwanza (ground state), -13.6eV, kwa sababu nishati inamilikiwa kwa vipande (quantinized), kwa mujibu wa modeli ya Schrödinger.

    Lakini kwa nini ?
     
  5. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Apr 2, 2008
    Messages: 2,944
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135
    Umeeleza mruko na mshuko wa elecktron kati ya ngazi za nishati za msisimko (excited state) na za msingi (ground state), lakini husajema ni kwani elektroni zikishashuka mpaka ngazi ya kwanza ya nishati, hazimoromoki zaidi kudumbukia kwenye kiini kwa mvuto wa uchanya wa kiini.
    E bwana eeeh, hii kali. Yani kwa sababu zina tungamo tofauti basi zitakuwa zina chaji tofauti ? Vyovyote itakavyokuwa katika tofauti ya tungamo la protoni na elektroni, ushaambiwa kwamba protoni ina chaji ya +1, na elektroni ina -1. Ok ? Zinanguvu sawa na tofauti ya mvutano!!!
    Hii ndio kali, kali zaidi. Kwa hiyo kitu chenye chaji ya +4 hakiwezi kuvutana na kitu chenye -1 ? Lazima vyote viwe +4 na -4 au +1 an -1 ? Duuuh?
    Hizo kwaksi, leputonisi na chochote kilichomo ndani ya protoni au electroni mwisho wa siku tunajua protoni ni chanya moja (+ 1) , elektroni ni hasi ( -1 ). Kwishne!

    Tunarudi pale pale, ni kwa nini elecktroni hazivutwi ndani ya kiini kilicho jaa uchanya ?
     
  6. Kijakazi

    Kijakazi JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Jun 26, 2007
    Messages: 3,546
    Likes Received: 11
    Trophy Points: 135
    Swali la pili nadhani limejijibu ktk maelezo hapo juu ni kuwa protons na nuetrons kwa sababu haziwezi kuwa na nguvu za kusukumana kwa kuwa protons zina/zimefanywa chaji chanya(+) wakati nuetrons zimefanywa kutokuwa na chaji(0).Hivyo huhusiano wa chaji zinazo fanana kusukumana na na zisizofanana kusukumana hapa hauhusu.



    Lakini swali langu ni kwamba labda niweke sawa kidogo niliposema kusukumana nilimaanisha proton na proton na sio proton na nutroni kwani haileti maana yeyote kwa kuwa proton haina chaji na proton ina hasi sasa hapo hakutatokea tukio lelote hilo linaeleweka!
    Tatizo lipo hapa kwenye protoni; protoni zina chaji chanya basi kwa kawaida ni lazima zitasukumana na protoni zingine kwa kuwa zote zina chaji za kufanana hata ukichukua sumaku na ukaelekeza pande zake mbili zinazofanana utaona kabisa kuwa zina sukumana pande mbili tofauti na hii inatokana na kuwa na chaji zinazofanana sasa kama hilo linatokea kwa sumaku kwa nini sio proton?
     
  7. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Messages: 3,742
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    The strong nuclear force hold the nucleus and subatomic particles together.This is a very strong force since it can hold the nucleus together in the face of the repulsion of sub atomic particles.

    However, in the case of very big nuclei, the nucleus disintegrate in radioactivity.This is why nuclear energy is so closely associated with uranium and other large nucleus based atoms, because the force used to disintegrate the nucleus is relatively small and the energy enormous.
     
  8. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    which force is this?
     
  9. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
     
  10. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Messages: 3,742
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    It is a fundamental force of nature according to the standard model of physics, widely accepted as the most accurate known description of the natural world, the force one of the four fundamental forces of nature.

    The forces being

    Weak nuclear force

    Strong nuclear force

    Electro-magnetism

    Gravity
     
  11. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    How does the strong nuclear force hold the nucleus and subatomic partiles ?
     
  12. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Apr 2, 2008
    Messages: 2,944
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135
    Ha ahaa aaaa, Mama you have trenchant eyes. Nimependa ulivyo makini. Mimi nimekuelewa vizuri, lakini najua kwa nini unadhani Pundit anajirudia rudia lakini yuko sahihi.

    Sentensi ya kwanza Pundit anataja jina, ana identify, hiyo nguvu, yani "strong nuclear force," halafu sentensi ya pili ana characterize hiyo nguvu ilivyo. Kamtafaruku kanakuja kwa sababu nguvu inaitwa "strong" halafu ni "strong." Ha aha aaaa!

    Lakini nimefurahi sana ulivyo makini hapo.
     
  13. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    Yah, okay, I know now.

    But what makes the strong nuclear force to hold subatomic particles together? There is something more than just a very strong nuclear force.
     
  14. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Apr 2, 2008
    Messages: 2,944
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135

    Ha ahaaaaa aaaaa. That is a perspicacious question Mama!

    Unajua wakati tuna debate uwepo wa Mungu ukawa unapigia debe imani bila mawazo ya kisayansi nilikuona "huyu nae ndio wale wale..." Samahani!

    Pundit mwanangu hebu jibu hilo swali kama unaweza. Nitafurahi sana. Lol!
     
  15. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    Wale wale akina nani tena?
     
  16. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Messages: 3,742
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    Huyu hapa amelijibu vizuri original question

    The Strong Nuclear Force and Binding Energy

    Mama naona unauliza "Stephen Hawkins" type of questions, Hawkins is not satisfied only with describing how things work, but wants to know why they do so.Kitty Fergusson katika "The Fire in the Equations" anasema kuwa Stephen Hawkins sio tu anataka kujua how things work, but what breathes the fire in the equations.

    Naona hili swali si jepesi, hata watu wa WikiAnswers hawana jibu bado

    WikiAnswers - What causes the strong nuclear force which keeps the protons inside the nucleus

    You are venturing in the realm of String Theory and Quantum Electro Dymanics.

    Strong nuclear force inasababishwa na kmesons zinazohama in the collission of quasi-real photons.
     
  17. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0

    All those don't state it clearly. Sasa why don't we leave the STRONG NUCLEAR FORCE not alone, and think also of the electromagnetic forces of the interacting leptons.
     
  18. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Apr 2, 2008
    Messages: 2,944
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135
    H aha a ahaaa aaaaaaaa

    Mwanangu ilibidi upotee kidogo kwenye ma research!

    Lile swali lake sio mchezo!
     
  19. M

    Mama JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Messages: 2,858
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0

    Mi nilishangaa hapa, nikahisi kaenda mazoezini hivyo nikasema 911 na 9millimeters wajiandae:)
     
  20. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Nov 27, 2008
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Messages: 3,742
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 0
    Mama,

    Why would we want to do that while the original question is completely out of the realm of electromagnetic force?

    The strong nuclear force is the strongest force in the universe (I know some say love is, but that's not scientific) the strong nuclear force is 10 power 38 times stronger than gravity and 100 times stronger than the electromagnetic forceforceforce.

    So why do you wanna bring a screw driver where a rocket launcher is needed?
     
Loading...