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Dutch rethink Christianity for a doubtful world

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Elimu (Education Forum)' started by Kiranga, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    BBC News - Dutch rethink Christianity for a doubtful world

    Dutch rethink Christianity for a doubtful world
    By Robert Pigott
    Religious affairs correspondent, Amsterdam


    The Rev Klaas Hendrikse can offer his congregation little hope of life after death, and he's not the sort of man to sugar the pill.


    An imposing figure in black robes and white clerical collar, Mr Hendrikse presides over the Sunday service at the Exodus Church in Gorinchem, central Holland.


    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, and the Lord's Prayer. But the message from Mr Hendrikse's sermon seems bleak - "Make the most of life on earth, because it will probably be the only one you get".


    "Personally I have no talent for believing in life after death," Mr Hendrikse says. "No, for me our life, our task, is before death."


    Nor does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.


    "When it happens, it happens down to earth, between you and me, between people, that's where it can happen. God is not a being at all... it's a word for experience, or human experience."


    Mr Hendrikse describes the Bible's account of Jesus's life as a mythological story about a man who may never have existed, even if it is a valuable source of wisdom about how to lead a good life.


    His book Believing in a Non-Existent God led to calls from more traditionalist Christians for him to be removed. However, a special church meeting decided his views were too widely shared among church thinkers for him to be singled out.


    A study by the Free University of Amsterdam found that one-in-six clergy in the PKN and six other smaller denominations was either agnostic or atheist.


    The Rev Kirsten Slattenaar, Exodus Church's regular priest, also rejects the idea - widely considered central to Christianity - that Jesus was divine as well as human.


    "I think 'Son of God' is a kind of title," she says. "I don't think he was a god or a half god. I think he was a man, but he was a special man because he was very good in living from out of love, from out of the spirit of God he found inside himself."


    Mrs Slattenaar acknowledges that she's changing what the Church has said, but, she insists, not the "real meaning of Christianity".


    She says that there "is not only one answer" and complains that "a lot of traditional beliefs are outside people and have grown into rigid things that you can't touch any more".


    Dienie van Wingaarden, who's been going to Exodus Church for 20 years, is among lay people attracted to such free thinking.


    "I think it's very liberating. [Klaas Hendrikse] is using the Bible in a metaphorical way so I can bring it to my own way of thinking, my own way of doing."


    Wim De Jong says, "Here you can believe what you want to think for yourself, what you really feel and believe is true."


    Churches in Amsterdam were hoping to attract such people with a recent open evening.


    At the Old Church "in the hottest part of the red light district", the attractions included "speed-dating".


    As skimpily dressed girls began to appear in red-lit windows in the streets outside, visitors to the church moved from table to table to discuss love with a succession of strangers.


    Professor Hijme Stoeffels of the Free University in Amsterdam says it is in such concepts as love that people base their diffuse ideas of religion.


    "In our society it's called 'somethingism'," he says. "There must be 'something' between heaven and earth, but to call it 'God', and even 'a personal God', for the majority of Dutch is a bridge too far.


    "Christian churches are in a market situation. They can offer their ideas to a majority of the population which is interested in spirituality or some kind of religion."


    To compete in this market of ideas, some Christian groups seem ready virtually to reinvent Christianity.


    They want the Netherlands to be a laboratory for Christianity, experimenting with radical new ways of understanding the faith.


    Stroom ("Stream") West is the experiment devised by one church to reach out to the young people.


    In an Amsterdam theatre young people contemplate the concept of eternity by spacing out a heap of rice grains individually across the floor.


    "The difference from other churches is that we areĀ… experimenting with the contents of the gospel," says Rikko Voorberg, who helps to run Stroom West. "Traditionally we bring a beautiful story and ask people to sit down listen and get convinced. This is the other way around."


    Stroom focuses on people's personal search for God, not on the church's traditional black-and-white answers.


    Rikko believes traditional Christianity places God in too restricted a box.


    He believes that in a post-modern society that no longer has the same belief in certainty, there is an urgent need to "take God out of the box".


    "The Church has to be alert to what is going on in society," he says. "It has to change to stay Christian. You can't preach heaven in the same way today as you did 2,000 years ago, and we have to think again what it is. We can use the same words and say something totally different."


    When I asked Rikko whether he believed Jesus was the son of God he looked uncomfortable.


    "That's a very tough question. I'm not sure what it means," he says.


    "People have very strict ideas about what it means. Some ideas I might agree with, some ideas I don't."


    Such equivocation is anathema in Holland's Bible Belt, among the large number of people who live according to strict Christian orthodoxy.


    In the quiet town of Staphorst about a quarter of the population attends the conservative Dutch Reformed Church every Sunday.


    The town even has a by-law against swearing.


    Its deputy mayor, Sytse de Jong, accuses progressive groups of trying to change Christianity to fit current social norms.


    "When we get people into the Church by throwing Jesus Christ out of the Church, then we lose the core of Christianity. Then we are not reforming the institutions and attitudes but the core of our message."


    But many churches are keen to work with anyone who believes in "something".


    They believe that only through adaptation can their religion survive.


    The young people at Stroom West write on plates the names of those things that prevent earth from being heaven - cancer, war, hunger - and destroy them symbolically.


    The new Christianity is already developing its own ritual.
     
  2. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    Duh.....this is very interesting......
    Where is max shimba?????????
     
  3. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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  4. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

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    Somethingism is still nearer to believing in "God" somehow.

    nothingism will be with you soon at the nearest church to you
     
  5. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Nothingism is stillism somethingism, nothing is nothing even if it is nothing.

    Hey, give me somethingism over god anytime. That is just a tee like agnosticism, which is really wishy washy atheism, or should I say, atheisingism ?
     
  6. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

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    Haha hapa wasubiri wenye lugha zao waje!!

    What is this continuos fight of power to control ppl's mind between followers of Godism, agnoisticism and atheism?
     
  7. njiwa

    njiwa JF-Expert Member

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    Sijaguswa hapa... Napita ....!

    :rapture:
     
  8. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    This is funny
     
  9. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    What's the difference between atheists and theists? Nothing! You both tout your beliefs as if they are certainly correct and can't be doubted when you can't prove them with conclusiveness. Dogmatic! That's what both of you are.

    Therefore, I diametrically disagree. Agnosticism is not wishy-washy atheism. It's the most reasonable position one can take where there is lack of conclusive proof. Agnostics are open-minded. Au contraire, you both are closed-minded.
     
  10. Makanyaga

    Makanyaga JF-Expert Member

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    Kiranga;
    Try to "be you". I mean, kuwa wewe!
    Jaribu kuamini kitu ambacho kati ya "chenyewe" na "nafsi yako", vitakuwa in harmony, regardless of whether kiko right or wrong, doesn't matter, then there you are, na hapo ndiyo utaweza kuishi kama binadamu wa kawaida, na pengine, unaweza ukaongeza chances zako za kwenda peponi, kama ipo!Kama haipo, you will still have nothing to loose! Kuna hatari kubwa kwako iwapo utashindwa ku-harmonize hivi vitu viwili (imani yako na nafsi yako), vikawa kwenye conflict, because you are going to lack moral standards, if not moral standing, kwa hiyo utaendelea kuwepo tu kama vile mnyama mwingine wa kawaida, na si kama binadamu.

    Kuendelea ku-copy na ku-paste thread nyingi zinazo-support atheism hapa hakutatatua tatizo lako hata kidogo. Posting ya thread zako ina emanate from the fact kwamba, "what you believe in" is in conflict with the self, and hence an obvious self dicomfort and punic. Your failure to understand the aftermath of the reality leads you (and of course everybody) into such a punic and confusion.

    Hapo kwenye red: Kama usingekuwa hivyo, usingetumia pronoun ya
    "tu" badala yake ungengetumia "mu". Nadhani unanielewa.
     
  11. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

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    And I thought atheists don't 'believe' that there is no God, they 'know'
     
  12. lukindo

    lukindo JF-Expert Member

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    Well, this can be simply compared to what Jews did to Christ, for them they looked at it as was addressed in [Torah(Torati)] by Moses but forgot the time it had taken from Moses to Jesus Christ (3000 years!!??? stand to be corrected). The same question would also rise on 2000 years of Christianity as Christ himself promised (on His return).
    and this will keep on as the world of humanity exist, after 2000 from now (as it was 2000 years ago) the world may need the clarifications on current Teachings because of some reasons including social advancements!
    ...this pastor may be possibly correct but the problem we are always fanatic and resistant to religious matters!
     
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