Danish PhD student on Nyerere and "Vijiji vya Ujamaa"

So, how long it took the inventors to invent the better technologies? Less than a year? Three months?

The technology to preserve written work in digital format is already here. But Tanzanians are very slow to take advantage of it. So we don't need to reinvent the wheel.
 
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Mkandara,

Alichosikiliza kwa hao wanavijiji sio kipya. Kwani tayari researchers wa university of UDSM walichaandika. Ngoja nitoe nukuu ya researcher mmoja kutoka Mara.

"The officials decided that people should move immediately and so the police, army, national service, and militiamen [mgambo] were mobilized to move the people. People were ill-treated, harassed, punished in the name of TANU under socialism. And those who questioned it were told, this is Nyerere's order."

Researcher kutoka Iringa:

"To assure that people remained in the new villages, former houses were usually made inhabitable by ripping out doors and windows and kicking holes in the mud walls or by setting fire to the thatch roofs. In some cases grain stored in or near the house also caught fire and the family's food supply was destroyed."

Hayo ni maneno ya wanavyuoni wa Tanzania miaka ya 70.
Zakumi,

The use of force was one of the main shortcomings.

I think incentives to move should've been created more than forcefuly dislocate the populations.

Kikawaida, watu huwa wanamove towards certain areas for some reaons, kwa dunia ya sasa, mostly ni economy and safety.Kwetu kwasababu asilimia kubwa ni wakulima, basi ardhi yenye rutuba, umwagiliaji na mvua.

Kungekuwepo na mpango ama program maalum itakayoweza kuwastimulate wananchi,(kifikra), na wawe na ile urge to do so(migrating), ya kuwafanya watu wahamie through encouragements, maybe even incentives can be aplicable during the program implementations, na si kuwahamisha kwa nguvu kama mifugo.
 
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wagumu kivipi wakati tunaziendeleza, tunapiga mikritiki ya nguvu ya jinsi mlivyowatesa wamaasai na wabarabaig!

Tulishaongelea hii issue ya wamaasai na wabarabaig. Lakini tatizo lako wewe ni mjamaa. Second generation mjamaa. Baba mjamaa. Wewe mjamaa. Unaelewa vipi haki miliki? wakati wajamaa mnasema ardhi ni mali ya umma (public domain).
 
Binafsi ningeomba debate hii iwe kwenye lugha ya Kiingereza kuwasaidia international reserchers wanaopotosha mambo mengi sababu ya kuzaliwa na chembechembe za u Capitalism wa kimarekani!

Kazi kwenu wanahistoria na hasa wanazuoni! Wapi Dr Kitila Mkumbo, Faiza Foxy and Kichuguu?

Where u by any means meant to compare these two bolded individuals?
 
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Zakumi,

The use of force was one of the main shortcomings.

I think incentives to move should've been created more than forcefuly dislocate the populations.

Kikawaida, watu huwa wanamove towards certain areas for some reaons, kwa dunia ya sasa, mostly ni economy and safety.

Kungekuwepo na mpango ama program maalum itakayoweza kuwastimulate wananchi,(kifikra), na wawe na ile urge to do so(migrating), ya kuwafanya watu wahamie through encouragements, maybe even incentives can be aplicable during the program implementations, na si kuwahamisha kwa nguvu kama mifugo.

JMush,

Nilitoa hizo quote mbili kuonyesha kuwa hao ni watanzania walioandika habari hizo. Hivyo literature zipo na waandishi watanzania wenyewe.

Nikirudi kwenye posti yako, unakanyaga land mines. Sasa hivi thread itabadilika. Ngoja tuendelee kiacademia-academia.
 
The technology to preserve written work in digital format is already here. But Tanzanians are very slow to take advantage of it. So we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Despite the technology being there, there are still challenges. As Fabunmi, et al pointed out in their article on "Digitization of Library Resources: Challenges and Implications For Policy and Planning" (https://ojcs.siue.edu/ojs/index.php/ijaaas/article/viewFile/80/142)

There is a need to undertake a psychological preparation of the employees, so that they will not resist digitization of the library resources. There is also a need to retrain the workers [and probably make others redundant].

Creating a digital library is also a very expensive venture which requires adequate planning and monitoring. The major problem is lack of technical-know-how; hence most digitization projects often run into problems. There is a need to design flexible and compatible programs.

In addition, the interface should be user-friendly, so that users can search for information with ease. It is not all electronic copies of documents that will suit the application format, hence the need to take this into consideration during conversion or digitization exercises.

Data entry can be very rigorous and expensive, hence it is easier and cheaper to provide online links to existing digital libraries, rather than start a digital library afresh. This has its own limitations. It does not take care of local materials.

Developers need to bear in mind copyright laws, while digitizing or scanning. There is a need for permission from the publishers of materials to be digitized [For many you will have to pay them to publish their works]

Despite these challenges we need to move digital. That is the way forward. Someone has started a campaign to digitalize Tanzanian music of the 1960s and 1970s. This should be extended to written works as well.
 
JMush,

Nilitoa hizo quote mbili kuonyesha kuwa hao ni watanzania walioandika habari hizo. Hivyo literature zipo na waandishi watanzania wenyewe.

Nikirudi kwenye posti yako, unakanyaga land mines. Sasa hivi thread itabadilika. Ngoja tuendelee kiacademia-academia.

Probably, I should have started this thread in the Education forum?
 
Despite the technology being there, there are still challenges. As Fabunmi, et al pointed out in their article on "Digitization of Library Resources: Challenges and Implications For Policy and Planning" (https://ojcs.siue.edu/ojs/index.php/ijaaas/article/viewFile/80/142)



Despite these challenges we need to move digital. That is is the way forward. Someone has started a campaign to digitalize Tanzanian musics of the 1960s and 1970s. This should be extended to written works as well.

The paper was published in 2006. In computer world, a lot have been done, improved and discover since then. Just imagine, in 2006 YouTube was one year old and the guy who invented Facebook was still a high school student.

The only challenge I see is our will and determination.
 
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Hivi Mantiki ya Villagerization [Vijiji vya ujamaa] ilikuwa nini? Manake sie tuliezaliwa miaka ya mid 1970s tumesoma historia na kusikia masimulizi.Na ikitokea nikaenda kijijini kuna maeneo uwa napelekwa naambiwa ni mahameni [Mwitongo] yani historia inasema waliishi hapo lakini vijiji vilikuja kuwatoa na kuwapeleka ambako mimi leo naita kijijini kwangu.

Kwa hali halisi ungeniuliza mimi leo Je wazo lile likua sahihi by then hakika mpaka hata leo likija ni sahihi.Kwa kuwa nimetizama mazingira hayo niliyoambiwa kuwa yalikuwa makazi yao ya zamani hakika ni mbali sana kutoka familia moja kwenda familia nyingine.Yani kama nitaonyesha hapa ndio kwa Babu itaniitaji tena kwenda kama kilomita mbili kujua tena kwa shangazi yangu au Mjomba wangu.


Hivyo ukitizama hali halisi katika picha ya kuwaletea watu maendeleo ni uwezekano mdogo sana kwa familia nyingi kabla ya vijiji vya ujamaa kupata maendeleo ya kujengewa Shule, Zahanati au kituo cha Afya, maji safi na salama na huduma yoyote ya msingi kulinganisha na upatikanaji wa jamii na miundo mbinu kuzunguka jumuhiya hiyo wakati huo kabal ya ujio wa kijiji cha ujamaa.


Lakini leo hii kwa vile vijijini vilivyovyekwenda kuwa vijijini vya ujamaa leo hii ndio vijiji vyetu [Makwetu] japo yale maeneo ya asili yamebaki ni mali ya familia kwa baadhi lakini yakiwa kama kumbukumbu ya makaburi na mashamba kwa baadhi ya familia kwa wabantu walio wengi ni maalufu kama mahameni.

Kuna makosa yalitendeka katika utekelezaji,ambayo kwa uhalisia na uafrica yalitokea lakini yakiwa yametendwa na baadhii ya watendaji ambayo kwa leo [Ni OCD na DC wanaingia Serengeti] hivyo kulikuwa na mapungufu katika zoezi la utekelezaji lakini nakubaliana na mpango mzima,kwa kuwa leo hii kama si umoja huo wa kuishi pamoja kama jumuhiya yani koo tofauti tofauti ndani ya kabila nyingi pengine hata mafanikio ya leo tunayoita Utulivu na Umoja usingekuwepo kama sio investment za aina hiyo ya kufikilia.

Uwa nachukia sana ninapoona wasomi hasa baadhi wa kitanzania wasipotaka kuwa na mawazo yao based kwenye mazingira yetu.Natamani kuona yani wanasoma kizungu lakini linapokuja swala la kufikilia basi tufikilie kiafrika kwa kuwa ndio mazingira yetu.Nyerere alisoma kizungu lakini alipokuja kufikilia alibuni ujamaa wa kiaafrika kwa sura ya kiafrika halisia yenye lengo la kuwasogezea maendeleo karibu.Wazo la Nyerere huo ndio ubinadamu wa Mungu kukupa utashi.Haikuwa lazima kukalili mifumo ya ulaya ili tuweze kuishi kwenye Ardhi ya Kiaafrica ambayo karibia asilimi 68% ya ardhi ni virgin Land kwa Tanzania na leo tunavyozungumza 2012.

Kuna baadhi ya wanajamii walikataa kukubaliana na amri ya serikali kuama kusongea kwenye eneo teuliwa,hapa kidogo ndio labda leo ningekuwa na tatizo nalo kwa kuwa sijui ni vigezo vipi vilitumika kuchagua eneo tajwa au yalikuwa ni maamuzi ya watawala ambao nikiona leo hakika wako baadhi waliwabuluza wanavijiji baadhi.KIngine nilichopata kama fununu wengine walikataa kuama kwa kuwa walikuwa na maaneo yao ya KUTAMBIKIA [mfumo wa imani wa kiafrika] hapa napo paliitaji makubaliano na jamii husika kutumia busara na si maguvu.

Hayo na mengineyo hakika yalikuwa ni mambo ambayo kwangu mimi naona lilikuwa ni jambo la masikilizano kuliko ubabe kama wa serikali ya kikoloni wakati ilikuwa ni serikali ya wananchi.
 
This is what happens when an occident scholar writes oriental affairs in an occidental outlook!!

Edward Said (RIP) (thought to be the father of postcolonial theories/studies) wrote a book Orientalism in 1978. The book was a critic to the ways western scholars analyze and explain the Orient "Asia/Middle East and Africa's affairs in prejudiced discourses. Being a Palestinian-American was one of the influences for Said's Orientalism; the other influence being his work as a Professor of Literature at Columbia University, USA. In his book Prof. Said called for the "orients" Asian/African scholars to rewrite history from the point of the "orient" rather than the "occident", so as to challenge the prejudiced discourses about the orient which have been the "dominant/conventional explanations" for so long in the western academia.


The book is a classic reading for all orients who are involved in postcolonial studies and theories. It is a must-read book for us to understand what Rasmus is trying to convey. Although he was and still is heavily criticised, his book and work still have relevance to the oriental civilisation.

In addition, there is one French philosopher (although, he never agreed to be called a philosopher) called Michel Foucault (RIP), famous for his book The Archaeology of Knowledge (1969), who analysed and explained the concepts of power and truth. In that book, Foucault has critically discussed the relationship between truth, knowledge and power. He argues that, in this world, the powerful can create what is to be generally known as “the truth”, to those with no powers. Thus, truth and knowledge is the function of power. So people like Rasmus are using communication/media resources like blogs et al. to advance their occidental explanations “their constructed truth” about villagization studies in Tanzania. They are having occidental analysis and conclusion that, Tanzanian scholars haven’t sufficiently researched on villagization policy and its contemporary accounts.


It is therefore a challenge to us and mostly, to those involved in land issues etc. to heavily criticise Rasmus with scholarly explanations from the orient viewpoint. It could be better, if we could wait for his PhD to be approved, and then we start hurling missiles of criticisms to his blemished research and conclusion.



Thank you Sir for the efforts you have taken to translate the original post to English.
 
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Probably, I should have started this thread in the Education forum?
Education watakuja kweli?lol!

Kwasasa nadhani hapa ibaki tu kwa wakati huu, ili tupate maoni ya wadau wengi, member wengi wako makazini, nadhani huwa wanakuja hapa kujiburudisha zaidi, wachangiaji wake wangeweza kuwa wengi zaidi kule chit chat zaidi hata ya elimu.

Back the to topic, @Zakumi, what landmines?Kiukweli in reality, hakuna mtu ambaye nilishawahi kujadiliana naye kuhusu hii issue ambaye aliona kuhamisha watu kwa nguvu was a good thing, na hii ninamaanisha watu huko mitaani na si hapa JF.Scholars watakuwa na theories zao, lakini kiukweli watu hawakupenda ile mambo ya kuhamishwa kama ng'ombe wa masai.
 
The paper was published in 2006. In computer world, a lot have been done, improved and discover since then. Just imagine, in 2006 YouTube was one year old and the guy who invented Facebook was still a high school student.

The only challenge I see is our will and determination.

Yes, the paper was published in 2006, but the challenges are still relevant today. You will still have to undertake psychological preparation of the employees, especially those who will face the sack as the result of the digitization.

It is still every expensive to create digital library. Planning and monitoring are still required. In Tanzania we are still facing the problem of technical-know-how.

Developers still need to bear in mind copyright laws, while digitizing or scanning. They will still need permission from and most pay for the publishers of materials to be digitized.

I agree with you that to overcome these challenges we need strong will and determination. But when I look around I cannot see this will and determination. Yes, in computer world, a lot have been done, but how about in computer Tanzania? What have been done?
 
Probably, I should have started this thread in the Education forum?

To put it in JF perspective, Ukumbi wa Siasa is an international airport, while Education form a nearby airfield for matokeo ya four4.
 
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Yes, the paper was published in 2006, but the challenges are still relevant today. You will still have to undertake psychological preparation of the employees, especially those who will face the sack as the result of the digitization.

It is still every expensive to create digital library. Planning and monitoring are still required. In Tanzania we are still facing the problem of technical-know-how.

Developers still need to bear in mind copyright laws, while digitizing or scanning. They will still need permission from and most pay for the publishers of materials to be digitized.

I agree with you that to overcome these challenges we need strong will and determination. But when I look around I cannot see this will and determination. Yes, in computer world, a lot have been done, but how about in computer Tanzania? What have been done?

Digital Library is an extension of the old library. So the employees shouldn't worry much about their positions because they will continue to maintain old books.

There's a movement to provide computers to students of poor countries (One computer per child). Rwanda is in the process of implementing it. India has got her own initiative too.

My projection is in five years every student in high schools and high learning institutions will have a computer and access to the internet. The question is how these students are going to use their computers effectively if we don't have digital libraries?
 
Digital Library is an extension of the old library. So the employees shouldn't worry much about their positions because they will continue to maintain old books.

There's a movement to provide computers to students of poor countries (One computer per child). Rwanda is in the process of implementing it. India has got her own initiative too.

My projection is in five years every student in high schools and high learning institutions will have a computer and access to the internet. The question is how these students are going to use their computers effectively if we don't have digital libraries?

That is a very high ambition. Even in the most developed countries, I don't think every children has their own computer. In Africa, the extent we have gone so far is in Egypt where Mubarak made sure that every family should have one computer. After succeeding on that he made sure that every family should have internet access in their home.

However, it was these ambitious technological developments which helped the Egyptians to overthrow him through that famous revolution. If he had known that the Egyptians would have used these facilities to to overthrow, he would not have bothered to invest on them. Surely, other African leaders who want to stay in power must have learned a lesson from this, which will even slow the digitalisation process.

On your projection that in five years every student in high schools and high learning institutions will have a computer and access to the internet and how these students are going to use their computers effectively if we don't have digital libraries, well that is like building a house starting from the roof.
 
Hii debate ni nzuri sana hasa inapogusa watafiti wafadhili/wafedhuli= huyo jamaa anayesoma PhD aliwahikufika moja ya maeneo aliyoambiwa na Ndugu Chambi lakini cha kushangaza badala ya kuuliza taarifa sahihi na kuingia library kusoma aliishia tu kuuliza oral questions na kusema asante na kuondoka, wakati hayo maeneo yameandikwa vizuri na wasomi mbalimbali na hata documentations za current waves juu ya athari za villagization.

Nafikiri kama gia ya thesis yake ililenga gaps that ujamaa haikuwa researched sana na hivyo thesis yake imecover zaidi then inabidi sasa afanye brashing ya thesis yake.
 
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Hii debate ni nzuri sana hasa inapogusa watafiti wafadhili/wafedhuli= huyo jamaa anayesoma PhD aliwahikufika moja ya maeneo aliyoambiwa na Ndugu Chambi lakini cha kushangaza badala ya kuuliza taarifa sahihi na kuingia library kusoma aliishia tu kuuliza oral questions na kusema asante na kuondoka, wakati hayo maeneo yameandikwa vizuri na wasomi mbalimbali na hata documentations za current waves juu ya athari za villagization.

Nafikiri kama gia ya thesis yake ililenga gaps that ujamaa haikuwa researched sana na hivyo thesis yake imecover zaidi then inabidi sasa afanye brashing ya thesis yake.

May be s/he said that there is no "large authoritative account" on the subject matter to justify the need for his/her research and probably to make it the "large authoritative account" on the matter.
 
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EMT I am glad that you felt obliged to share the two articles…. The insight is superb in both sides and quite intensive in the next [Chachage’s]. I would have to agree to the Danish’s one side of the coin thou; about worshiping Mwalimu as a Saint- Almost like Jesus as per his words… to most of Tanzanian Countrymen. To date that is where the problem lies in discussions concerning the Late beloved Mwalim. The foundation of his ever mentioned name for it has created two strong sides… folks who are absolutely in his favor and don’t want his name to be smeared by what ever considered irritant Vs those who are wholly against him and have deep belief the name is not worth being cleansed by whatever honor… whether deserved or non deserved. When I hear/see/read Mwalimu Nyerere I sincerely remember one of the most anti-Nyerere I have ever had to set eyes on [thou via words].. Faiza Foxy . Enways


Back to the topic at hand… I have read the posted posts in the thread of fellow members…. At most are saliently aggressively being really negative against the Danish PhD student on his remarks. I believe the problem does not lie with him… It is more so with Us Tanzanians…. I think and believe he did his research…. [After all his research seems to be totally reliant on Proff Shivji’s work and it is common knowledge Shivji is a devoted supporter of the Late Mwalimu]. My assumption is that from wherever he was in quest of information on the subject matter the particulars and details were Scarce and more significantly those who where to aid him [Our fellow Tz] was of less than abundant knowledge on the matter; let alone on whereabouts of the find of abundant detailed information on Ujamaa/Vigillization and all it’s related facts and information of rich materials.


We have to face the facts that it is a very few Tanzanians who have the equal intensive, depth and comprehensive knowledge on the Subject of Ujamaa [let alone it’s consequences]; as that provided by Chachage. Good thing the Danish did come to a wind up and posted it, as much as the other side of the coin is misleading it did do it’s wonders…. It brought Chachage [one of a few true Tanzanian Patriot at least in it’s history] and gave a depth knowledge of which I too was not aware in most of it. It is Impressive and I believe the Danish PhD student is impressed too; for the article [which postulates detailed analyzed arguments with supporting facts] it provides not less than five more areas of where to place concentration if interested.

Ujamaa is one of the most impressive ideas in development of a nation, it is an entity of which arises interesting angles of which to observe development via a direct hit on it's people. And that is one of the few reason's the Late Mwalimu, Julius Kambarage Nyerere will for ever be mentioned by Scholars for years to come; and it is my great belief in time he will be one of the Aristotle of Tanzania...

I believe it is time as Tanzanians we really have to put our noses in books.... Not only when taking degrees, but also to know more of what our nation, histoy and people - atleast to get a general perspective of what entails.
 
Kutumika kwa nguvu kwenye operation vijiji ndo jambo ambalo halikuwa jema kwenye issue nzima.Na hiii ni kwa mtizamo wangu tu.

Mwalimu alitumia characteristic ya kiualimu hapa wakati wa utekelezaji,(inaweza pia ikwa ya ki dictator).

Kama wanavyofanya walimu wa kitanzania kuwalazimishia wanafunzi kwa viboko tu na bila ya kuwaelewesha vyema, kwa kuamini tu ni wajinga...

Nadhani kungetumika mbinu nyingine ya tofauti na busara zaidi, maybe tungepiga hatua badala ya kubakia kwenye malalamiko ambapo yalikuwa mengi kutoka kwa wananchi waliohamishwa.


Jmushi... Mwalimu alisema "Socialism can not be imposed on people; they can be guided, they can be led but ultimately they must be involved" Lakini pamoja na maneno yake hayo bado ilimbidi aje apitishe Act inayohusiana na Ujamaa [The Ujamaa Village Act 1975] naamini kwa nia yake njema kabisa, kumbuka ndio tulikua tumetoka kupata Uhuru sio mda mrefu na mwalimu was so set on kuhakikisha kila mwananchi aonje matunda ya kua huru yapo vipi. Hata hivo kama ilivo ada kwa walo wengi kukubali kwa ridha ile displacement ilikua ni tatizo.... Kwa mtazamo huu ni lazima he had to opt for a more firm approach ya "ulazima"

Naamini as a leader kuna some decisions unapaswa kuchukua for the betterment of your people. Kile ambacho alifanya for Ujamaa kufanikiwa ilikua ni compulsory.... Kwamba ilikua action ya Ki dictator? That is dependant on one's perspective I guess... na hilo ndilo moja ya ambalo linamshindishwa JK kutoa maamuzi binafsi kwa vigezo vya ushirikishi, fact ambayo inazidi yumbisha yanayo yumba.
 
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