Danish PhD student on Nyerere and "Vijiji vya Ujamaa"

[EMT]

Interesting debate.

However, I have advise for my compatriots. The only way we can address this problem is to tell our story comprehensively. Wengi hapa tunalalamika kwamba historia yetu inapotoshwa. Lakini hebu niambia ni wangapi tunakaa chini na kuandika? Iam proud of Chambi alivyojibu na ndo maana kama mmeona huyu mwanafunzi kampa staha sana hata kwenye majibu yake. This is the way it should be. Africans should write and tell their stories. Hii ya kulalamika will take us nowhere.

Angalia watu kama wakina Mkapa ametumikia taifa miaka zaidi ya 50! Leo kastaafu baada ya kukaa chini aandike hata historia ya utumishi wake, siasa za Tazania na mengineyo...leo yuko busy anagombana na watoto wadogo Arumeru! Na tunalalamika kwamba wazungu wanapotosha historia yetu! Its really a pity..angalia viongozi wengi wastaafu wako busy kwenye siasa za CCM na kwingineko..yet these are the people to write and tell this generation..kipi kilifanyika na reasons behind maana walikuwa sehemu ya haya maamuzi.

Mara nyingine nasikitika nikiona tunalalamikia vitu ambavyo uwezo wa kuvirekebisha tunao. Tujitahidi maana miaka ijayo watoto wetu watakuwa wanasoma hitoria ya wazungu tuu....ya kwao hawaijui..

Tukae chini tuandike! Tuache longo longo!

Have you done your research and find out that there are no academic works on the subject matter? And please here we are talking about academic articles, not politicians and ex-president articles.

 

[EMT]

So are you saying that there is a plethora of writings on the subject?

Yes, Sir.

 

[Companero]

Hiyo mijadala imekuwa published wapi? Msaidie sasa toa link, taja journal etc.

nimeshamtajia hapo juu - halafu pale hakiardhi kuna majuzuu kama 9 hivi za maoni ya wananchi wa wilaya zote za tanzania (kasoro 2) kwa tume ya rais kuhusu ardhi, aende akayasome

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Yes, Sir.

Well, help him out then...

 

[Companero]

halafu pale maktaba ya udsm kwenye sehemu ya east africana kuna matasnifu kibao kuhusu vijiji vya ujamaa hayajapishwa, ndio archive zenyewe hizo - pia kuna majournal ya udsm toka miaka hiyo ya 70 yanaitwa utafiti, university of michigan wamejaribu kuyascan na kuyaweka online ila sidhani kama ni yote, mengine inabidi uhangaike kidogo kuyatafuta hata ikibidi kuwatembelea maprofesa kama kama ngabu senior (kwa mfano kitabu cha class struggle in tanzania ilibidi mpaka nikamuombea mwandishi ndio nipate nakala)!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

halafu pale maktaba ya udsm kwenye sehemu ya east africana kuna matasnifu kibao kuhusu vijiji vya ujamaa hayajapishwa, ndio archive zenyewe hizo - pia kuna majournal ya udsm toka miaka hiyo ya 70 yanaitwa utafiti, university of michigan wamejaribu kuyascan na kuyaweka online ila sidhani kama ni yote, mengine inabidi uhangaike kidogo kuyatafuta hata ikibidi kuwatembelea maprofesa kama kama ngabu senior (kwa mfano kitabu cha class struggle in tanzania ilibidi mpaka nikamuombea mwandishi ndio nipate nakala)!

Msaidieni mshikaji basi....

Btw, senior aliwahi kuniambia moja ya wanafunzi wake bora kabisa alikuwa Companero sr. na baadaye kidogo H.D. Nyirenda....lol

 

[Companero]

Companero,

Kwikwikwi kwenye hile posti yako nilikuwa nakuchokoza tu. Nameshawahi kugusia athari ya vijiji vya Ujamaa katika mazungumzo yetu na naelewa msimamo wako.

Zipo kazi zilizoandikwa na watanzania. Mojawapo ni ya Qwaray Lawi wa University of DSM. Lakini kazi hizi hazipitiwi na watanzania wengi. Activists na wanasiasa wengi hawa hapa JF bado wanazungumza vitu kwa hisia zao bila kuwa na utafiti wowote hule.

Mara nyingi nimeshauriwa kuacha kutumia vitabu au Western Education ninapojadili masuala ya Tanzania na hasa failures of Ujamaa policies.

Angalau hiyo ya Lawi kaiona na kuinukuu si iko online labda ndio maana kaipata kirahisi ila kuna makabrasha mengine ya kufa mtu, hapa chuoni tu nimeona ambayo hata sijawahi kuyaona kwenye maktaba ya mzee ambaye yeye PHD yake ilikuwa ni kuhusu Ujamaa, hata hiyo sijui kama mshikaji kaisoma tena kama sikosei nilimtumia makabrasha ya prof.!

 

[Companero]

Msaidieni mshikaji basi....

Btw, senior aliwahi kuniambia moja ya wanafunzi wake bora kabisa alikuwa Companero sr. na baadaye kidogo H.D. Nyirenda....lol

Msaidiwe wewe, mimi nimeshachoka - nenda kwenye library ya Ngabu Sr um-scan-ie makabrasha

 

[EMT]

Well, help him out then...

Well, how can you help him/her when s/he says that s/he does "not think that the references change [his/her] main point, namely the large authoritative account – a book – of the whole period is yet to be written."?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Msaidiwe wewe, mimi nimeshachoka - nenda kwenye library ya Ngabu Sr um-scan-ie makabrasha

Hahahaaa ile maktaba yake kubwa bana...itabidi nichukue siku nzima.

 

[Mkandara]

Jamani au mimi ndio namsoma vibaya..Bandiko loote hilo mawazo yake ni kipande hiki tu..

Operation Vijiji has received surprisingly little academic attention. I have only found a few academic articles analysing aspects of these villagisation processes of the 1960s and 1970s, and, so far, no larger, authoritative account of the whole period. That is a shame. The project shaped the Tanzanian countryside in unforeseen ways. During my research in the rural areas, I have met people whose houses were burnt and who were forced to move during villagisation. Some people still have ‘sleeping’ claims on the land they, or their parents, lost back then. The effects of Operation Vijiji, in other words, are still felt today.

Na bado hajaeleza yeye ktk uchunguzi wake aliufanya vipi hadi afikie kutoa hukumu aloitoa..

 

[Zakumi]

Angalau hiyo ya Lawi kaiona na kuinukuu si iko online labda ndio maana kaipata kirahisi ila kuna makabrasha mengine ya kufa mtu, hapa chuoni tu nimeona ambayo hata sijawahi kuyaona kwenye maktaba ya mzee ambaye yeye PHD yake ilikuwa ni kuhusu Ujamaa, hata hiyo sijui kama mshikaji kaisoma tena kama sikosei nilimtumia makabrasha ya prof.!

Companero,

Wanafunzi wa miaka hii wajifunza kufanya research kwa kutumia internet. Hivyo sioni sababu ya kulaumu kwa sababu kazi ya kuziweka kwenye mtandao sio zake.

 

[mooduke]

Well said mkuu....

over forty years later can we say that Ujamaa villages failed? Well, kuna mahali popote ambapo waliunda vijiji vya ujamaa ambao baadaye waliamua kurudi kwenye makazi yao ya zamani au kuamua kutoka kuishi kwenye maisha ya kijiji na kwenda kwenye kila mtu na makazi yake? Ni vijiji vipi vya ujamaa ambavyo watu wameondoka baada ya kushindwa?

 

[Zakumi]

Whether or not Operation Vijiji was good or bad is not my point. My point is the researcher claiming that:
.

EMT,

Nilikuwa najibu posti iliyokuwa mbele yangu ambayo. Kwenye posti mtumaji anaona kuwa mwanafunzi kutoka Denmark hana uwezo wa kuandika kuhusu mambo yaliyowapata watanzania.

 

[EMT]

Companero,

Wanafunzi wa miaka hii wajifunza kufanya research kwa kutumia internet. Hivyo sioni sababu ya kulaumu kwa sababu kazi ya kuziweka kwenye mtandao sio zake.

If you are doing a research through internet for an issue which happened in 1960s and 1970s in Africa, you are just going to come across with hearsay writings. Remember that writer who said in his recent book that Nyerere said in his retiring speech that he "failed"? Then, we went to locate the actual speech and found out that there was no such acknowledgment that he "failed"? That is is why is important to use primary sources than the secondary ones.

 

[josefast]

Nyerere's ideas were the best of all the time, the capitalist sowed the roots for such failure.

 

[Zakumi]

Angalau hiyo ya Lawi kaiona na kuinukuu si iko online labda ndio maana kaipata kirahisi ila kuna makabrasha mengine ya kufa mtu, hapa chuoni tu nimeona ambayo hata sijawahi kuyaona kwenye maktaba ya mzee ambaye yeye PHD yake ilikuwa ni kuhusu Ujamaa, hata hiyo sijui kama mshikaji kaisoma tena kama sikosei nilimtumia makabrasha ya prof.!

Companero,

Kuna mapungufu ya kazi zilizohusiana na siasa za Ujamaa Tanzania. Pamoja na kuwa kutakuwa na reference nyingi lakini bado mapungufu yapo. Hili ni suala ambalo inabidi kufanyia kazi.

 

[Companero]

Companero,

Wanafunzi wa miaka hii wajifunza kufanya research kwa kutumia internet. Hivyo sioni sababu ya kulaumu kwa sababu kazi ya kuziweka kwenye mtandao sio zake.

huyo ni mtafiti anayefanya almost some kind of (if not) ethnography huko vijijini, kakaa darisalama, tumemuambia aende hakiardhi n.k., labda kashaenda ila ndio hivyo kuna majuzuu nakuambia makubwa hayo yapo pale kuhusu wananchi walisema nini kuhusiana na ardhi na kwa ujumla mengi waliyoyasema yanahusiana na hiyo villagization - sasa kwa kuwa hajawekewa online ndio afanye hayo mahitimisho? kuna kina shivji,hadjivayanis,kapinga na waanzilishi wengine wa hakiardhi, waliandika makabrasha kibao na mpaka wengine wakaenda kufungua makesi ya kutetea wafugaji na wakulima huko ( hata ringo tenga mwenyewe naye enzi za uwanaharakati alichapisha pia kuhusu hayo masuala)!

 

[Companero]

Companero,

Kuna mapungufu ya kazi zilizohusiana na siasa za Ujamaa Tanzania. Pamoja na kuwa kutakuwa na reference nyingi lakini bado mapungufu yapo. Hili ni suala ambalo inabidi kufanyia kazi.

hakuna mtu anayesema hakuna mapungufu, akayeaadress hayo mapungufu ila sio kuwasema wazee wetu wa kina shivji waliofichwa kwenye magunia huko huko hanang ili wasikamatwe na mapolisi kwa sababu ya kutetea kesi zinazotakana na sakata za ardhi - shivji toka miaka ya 70 anapiga madongo kuhusu dola ya kijamaa alafu unanunukuu tu ka-article kamoja alikoandika na kuhitimisha kuwa ame-ignore hilo suala!

 

[Mkandara]

Kinachochekesha ni kwamba wanaosema vijiji vya Ujamaa havikufaa hawakwenda hata mmoja wao lakini wanadai walipoteza ardhi..Na kama alikwenda kijiji cha Ujamaa muulize kijiji gani na imekuwaje karudi maana hakuna aliyerudi bali wale waliokimbia na kutawanyika.

Hizi tuhuma tumezisikia hata ktk kupitia JKT kwanza kwa wahitimu wa vyuo au from 6, wale wote waliokwepa JKT kwa sababu hawakuona umuhimu wake ndio wapiga parapanda sana kuhusu JKT lakini huwezi kumkuta aliyekwenda JKT akikashifu idea ya JKT ila mambo alokutana nayo JKT.