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Communism & Capitalism: Matokeo The World na Tanzania

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by W. J. Malecela, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. W. J. Malecela

    W. J. Malecela Tanzanite Member

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    - Communism na Capitalism maana yake ni nini hasa? zilifanikiwa au zili-fail? Nani walioanzisha na kwa nini? zilianzia wapi na lini? Nini matokeo yake kwa Dunia na hasa sisi Tanzania? Tanzania ya leo tunafuata Communism au Capitalism? Na ikibidi tufuate ideology ipi kati ya hizo mbili kwa ajili ya manufaa yetu? Do we need any of this ideologies? Tujadili wakuu!

    Ahsanteni.


    William.
     
  2. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    Sisi ujamaa na kujitegemea ndio tilioanza nao
    na umetuasaidia sana kwa kiasi chake,
    sasa tupo kwenye mixed economy,
    faida nyingi za ujamaa ni pamoja na kuunganisha watanzania.
     
  3. W. J. Malecela

    W. J. Malecela Tanzanite Member

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    - Sawa sawa mkuu, lakini ujama na Kujitegemea ni nini hasa maana yake?

    Ahsante.



    William.
     
  4. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    kimsingi nyerere ali copy kutoka china....
    Ni kama ukomunisti wa kichina but,kulikuwa na tofauti ndogo
    mfano,watu waliruhusiwa kuwa na dini.
     
  5. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Mie navyoona ni kwamba communism ni nzuri but katika micro-perspective kwani inasaidia kuleta umoja, undugu na kutufanya tuwe wanaadamu katika nchi. Hata hivyo policy ya kwamba mie nihangaike halafu tugawane hiyo si mtazamo mzuri kwasababu tunatofautiana jitihada na ufanisi katika kazi (na hapo capitalism ndipo inapoingia).

    Kimtazamo wangu nadhani zote ideology mbili zinamanufaa tuwe kama wachina tunachukua mazuri ya communism tunayaweka kwetu na capitalism tunayachukua mazuri tunayadopt venginevyo zote zina mabaya na mazuri yake.
     
  6. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    good point.
     
  7. W. J. Malecela

    W. J. Malecela Tanzanite Member

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    - Kuna maana nyingi sana on Communism, lakini kwa kifupi ninaamini ni a sosio-political ideology ambayo inataka matumizi ya violence kuweza kufikia malengo yake ya kugawanya mali za jamii equally na in the process inakataa kabisa uhuru wa wananchi wake kuabudu dini wanazotaka. Communism can also be a system of classless society.

    - Sasa mkuu kwa haya niliyosema hapa chini, ninajiuliza hivi kweli Communism inaweza kuwa ni a good ideology kwetu wa-Tanzania licha ya Dunia?

    Ahsante.


    William.
     
  8. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Kaka nakubaliana na wewe kabisa na tuko pamoja and that is one of example of the dark side of communism which at the end of the day it leads to the violation of basic human rights.

    Tukija kwa watanzania kimsingi sasa tunachohitaji ni umoja wa kitanzania na mshikamano. Kuanzia rais hadi mkulima wa shambani kule mbeya (as an example). But Tanzania ni nchi changa na inaenda katika transformation ambayo kimsingi tukishikilia mtiriko moja wa kifikra hatutafika mbali.

    Creating a classless society that includes wealth pia ina reduce competition, and incentives to achieve more. Such itatupelekea tuwe nchi yenye maendeleo kidogo and mwisho wa siku tutabakia kulalamika. By allowing classes obivious inaongeza natija ya uzalishaji na specialization kitu ambacho baadae kitakuja kuinufaisha jamii na nchi kwa ujumla. Mfano ikiwa kuna extreme classes ndani ya jamii kuna mechanism za kuipunguza mfanowake katika kipato kuna system of PAYE which implies that ukiwa na kipato kikubwa unalipa kodi kubwa zaidi kuliko ambaye ana kipato kidogo. Vilevile panakuwapo na benchmark kwa wale ambao wako exempt kwenye taxes kama wazee, watoto etc hivyo hiyo inasaidia kupunguza yale matabaka



    Huo ni mtazamo wangu tu lakini!!!
     
  9. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Communism ni mfumo wa serikali ambao state ina plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, kama ambavyo CCM ilivyo shika hatamu ya uongozi, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

    Nyerere said, ujamaa na kujitegemea ndio njia pekee ya kujenga jamii ya watu walio huru na sawa.

    Wakati Marxist-Leninist version yao ya ukommunist doctrine ilikuwa ni ku-advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

    Nyerere alilalia zaidi staili ya Mao ZeDong ya kujenga nchi kwa kutumia madaraka mikoani. Kuweka vijiji vya ujamaa na ma bwana shamba. Kuanzisha Mashirika ya Umma. Kuweka Nyumba kumi kumi, ili kumonitor kila mtu. Kuweka maduka ya ugawaji na nk.
     
  10. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Sawa sawa kamanda but what define a community? to what extent should the state control the economy? Haya maswali ndio yanaovunja communism kwasababu ukisema state iwe inainterve economy unakutana na challenge nyingi mfano serikali ikiwa inadetermine price ya katani au maharage kuna wakulima ambao wamegharimika kwa kiwango kikubwa watashindwa kuuza mazao yao. Likewise wale ambao wanashida ya kuuza haraka watashindwa kuuza kwakuwa state inadetermine kila kitu.

    Na ukija serikalini such system requires a prudent government is Tanzanian government transparent enough to act in the interest of wananchi???
     
  11. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Good thread Will lakini umeileta in the wrong platform

    the likely hood ni kuwa ikija kuchanganya hii thread itaondolewa kuipa nafasi episodes za akina Kafulila na Zitto zichukue centre stage

    upand wangu nakushauri utafute hiki kitabu ukishakisoma tafuta timu yako then njoo tufanye mdahalo

    [​IMG]

    peace
     
  12. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Inawezekana kweli kamanda!!! maana wengine tushachoka ni hizo habari!!! Waswahili wana msemo ukiona kwa mwenzio kunaungua kwako kunatekea tuzungumzieni mwelekeo wa nchi na sio mwelekeo wa watu
     
  13. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Good thread Will lakini umeileta in the wrong platform

    the likely hood ni kuwa ikija kuchanganya hii thread itaondolewa kuipa nafasi episodes za akina Kafulila na Zitto zichukue centre stage

    upand wangu nakushauri utafute hiki kitabu ukishakisoma tafuta timu yako then njoo tufanye mdahalo

    [​IMG]

    peace
     
  14. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Hebu tuanze kwa kuangalia Ujima. Ujima ninaweza kusema ni collective work and resposibilities in coming together to build and maintain our communities. Nahii resposibility is between brothers and sisters in solving problems together. Ndio maana Tanzania kila mtu anaitwa NDUGU. Kwahiyo, teyari ujamaa umeonyesha mafanikio fulani ambayo tunayafanya au practice bila ya kujijua.

    Sasa basi, issue ya state kuongoza au panga maisha and/or control economy ni tatizo linalo likumba nchi nyingi sana dunia. Hata Marekani hivi sasa wamekwama, kwasababu wamefika mahali na kuelewa kuwa Serikali inahitajika kufanya maamuzi makubwa ya kiuchumi, kuanzia ngazi ya taifa mpaka kwenye makampuni binafsi. Ndio issue ya bailout inaingia hapa.

    Tanzania, tumeshindwa kwasababu, viongozi wetu wanashindwa kuinforce laws na kuwabana watu ambao wanajibwanyenyesha kwa kutumia udhaifu wa wananchi. Hili ndilo tatizo kubwa katika Nchi Yetu Tanzania. The laws are not inforced.

    Nyerere alianzisha Mashirika ya Umma na viwanda vya Umma. Yoote tumeyauwa kwa kusikiliza IMF. Mchina aligoma kufuata IMF. Kama unakumbuka, kila mtu alifikiria kuwa sasa Wachina wamekwisha. Lakini kila kitu cha Marekani kimetengenzwa Uchina. Sasa wanawapikia hata chakula, CHINISE STORES kila kona Marekani. NYC, system ya usafiri ya treni ni ya City of NY, na City of NY ni Serikali. Lakini sisi tumeua UDA. Wenzetu bado MTA ipo chini ya City of NY.

    Nikirudi kwenye maswali yako, Serikali bado inahitajika katika kufanya maamuzi mengi sana. Kwasababu Tanzania bado inakua, since bado tunakua, basi mtoto sharti aongozwe na mzazi. Kwabahati mbaya , huyu mtoto anaye kua wa Kitanzania, anamiaka ya mtu mzima.

    Nina rafiki mmoja NY ambaye ni mkulima, analima mahindi, Serikali ya Marekani inasema hivi, kama ukishindwa kuuza mahindi yako tusema Walmart, basi, wao watanunua mahindi yako kwa market value ilipo wakati huo, na kukupa extra 6 thousands kwa kuiuzia Serikali chakula. Kwahiyo, Mkulima huyu, hana wasisi na soko, kwasababu anauhakika, mahindi yake yatauzwa. SASA sijuwi kama Serikali ya Tanzania ina ghala la taifa?

    Swali lako la mwisho, ni tamu. Ni kweli kuwa Serikali ya TZ imeshindwa kuweka uwazi, na sababu kubwa ni umaskini.

     
  15. W. J. Malecela

    W. J. Malecela Tanzanite Member

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    - Mkulu Max, with all due respect, how can you describe Tanzania na Communism, ninaona wengi mkisema kwamba tuliiga kutoka China lakini the history iko very clear kwamba Communism ya China origin yake ilikuwa ni only a copy ya the original Cummunism ya Karl Max, ambaye kwa kushirkiana na Fred Engles in the 1800s, walianzisha a modern communism movemment wakiwa na nia ya ku-promote the value of the common man, na hasa to end the misery ya watu under the rule of aristocracies na tyrans. Ideology ambayo baadaye ilikuja kuwa advanced na Bolsheviks under utawala wa Lenin, lakini matokeo yake yakapimwa wakati wa utawala wa Stalin, as a failed one kwa sababu iliishia ku-create a ruling class ambayo nia na madhumuni yake ilikuwa ni kui-eliminate in the first place!

    - Sasa kwa mantiki hii ina could I be wrong nikisema kwamba Tanzania tulikuwa tuna copy ideology ambayo ilikuwa doomed tayari, kwa sababu sio siri kwamba Capitalism ilikuwepo kabla ya Communism, ambayo ilianzia in the 1700s wakati Adam Smith kwa mara ya kwanza alipoweza kui-define in terms of intellectualism, wakati Communism ilianza in the 1800s. Na sidhani kama nitakuwa mbali na ukweli nikisema kwamba Karl Max na Engles, walikuwa wanajaribu ku-invet ideology ambayo ingaweza kuwaondoa tyrans na aristocracies ambao walikuwa ni the results ya Capitalism ambayo Smith alii-define in the 1700s as the market forces of supply and demand, competition, profit motive in guidng and regulating the economy.

    - Sasa hivi ni kweli tuneelewa exatcly what Mwalimu copied form China's Communism, maana sio siri kwamba chairman Mao was un-educated man, ingawa alikuwa a very intellingent individual, lakini aliweza kufanikiwa one thing nacho ni control of anarchy, ingawa alishindwa many times aliweza kufanikiwa kuanzisha equality among his people, ingawa pia sio wananchi wote waliofaidika nayo.

    - Sasa does this expalins kwa nini Tanzania tulishindwa? Kumbe tulikua tunaiga ideology ambayo ilikuwa doomed kabla hata hatujai-copy?

    Ahsante.


    William.
     
  16. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Will,

    unajua fika this sh*t is too deep kwa watu humu

    hutofika kokote nayo..wenzio wanataka issues za akina Kafulila na Zitto
     
  17. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Communist na Capitalism ni ubishi wa Kuku na Yai kilianza kipi?..
    Communist wanasema KUKU na Capitalist wanasema ni MAYAI - Waafrika kazi yetu kuuziwa vifaranga kama pale InterChic, kisha tunajiingiza ktk ubishi huo..
     
  18. T

    Tom JF-Expert Member

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    Capitalism, Communism au Ujamaa na kujitegemea si dawa kwa Tanzania. Dawa kubwa kwetu ni kujipatia UONGOZI unaoweza kusimamia na kuinua kiwango cha uzalishaji mali hadi kuleta maisha bora na maendeleo kwa watu iwe kwa kutumia Capitalism, Communism ama Ujamaa na Kujitegemea. Idiology zote zinaweza kuwa tuned na jinsi muda uendavyo.
    Idiology zote hizo ni nzuri tu lakini ni kuangalia mazingaira yetu yanalalia wapi. Ili mradi CCM ina power zote licha ya kutokua na UONGOZI BORA sioni kwa nini walishindwa kutupeleka kwenye Ujamaa na Kujitegemea.
     
  19. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    - Bob facts zipo wazi, Capitalism ilianza au kutambuliwa rasmi in the 1700s, na Bwana Smith, huku Communism ikianzishwa rasmi na Karl pamoja na mwenziwe Engles in the 1800s,

    - Na Communism ilikuwa ni rebellious against mabwanyenye waliokuwa the product ya Capitalism, sasa mjadala wa kuku na mayai unatokea wapi hapo mkuu? mbona kama facts ziko wazi!

    Respect.


    FMEs!
     
  20. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu:

    Pure capitalism na pure communism zina-exist kwenye theory tu. Nchi yoyote ikijaribu kufuata pure capitalism, watu watauana mitaani. Na nchi yoyote ikifuata pure communism, maisha yatakuwa dull, competition itakufa, kutakuwa hakuna innovation na viongozi watakuwa miungu wa kutoa hotuba za masaa matatu (fikra sahihi).

    Kiuchumi, nchi kama Tanzania haitakiwi kuwa na dira yoyote hile. Kinachotakiwa ni kutumia heuristic approachies.

    Peace

    Z10
     
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