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China stealing African Technology

Discussion in 'Jamii Intelligence' started by Rubabi, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. R

    Rubabi Senior Member

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    By ANDREI CHANG

    HONG KONG,

    China has had a number of dealings with South African weapons manufacturers over the past decade, most of which have not resulted in actual weapons purchases. However, several recent Chinese-made military technologies bear suspicious resemblances to their South African counterparts.

    In 2008 China acquired a fourth-generation air-to-air missile equipped with a thrust-vector control engine. The PL-10, or PL-ASR, is comparable to the U.S.-made AIM-9X air-to-air missile, or AAM.

    According to a representative from the South African Denel Group, the PL-ASR is almost a replica of its A-Darter AAM. The Denel representative told the author during an interview in Cape Town that the Chinese had contacted the company in 2001 to explore the possibility of importing fifth-generation A-Darter infrared-guided AAMs, which included a TVC propulsion system and pilot helmet-mounted displays.

    In the end, Denel did not sell the technologies to China, which it regards as its key competitor in selling air-to-air missiles on the African market. Company engineers were therefore surprised to find that the Chinese PL-ASR is nearly identical to the A-Darter in exterior structure, tail engine and even the diameter of the missile body.

    The company strongly suspects that China reverse-engineered its A-Darter AAM after acquiring its technological materials.

    This fits a pattern that China has followed in acquiring military technologies from many sources. When seeking a new technology, China contacts a foreign manufacturer and requests substantial technical information about its product, supposedly with the intent to buy. Instead, Chinese engineers study the materials and imitate the relevant concepts and designs.

    Something similar occurred in the course of China's development of a combat helicopter. In 1996 China and South Africa signed a memorandum to jointly develop a combat helicopter, when China was in the process of building its ZW-10 helicopter.

    After being given a focused inspection of the Rooivalk combat helicopter's subsystems, China wanted to purchase one helicopter from Denel, but the South African company considered the purchase of a single aircraft the equivalent of giving away its technologies. As a result, Denel decided not to sell China the helicopter and the cooperation came to an end.

    Another item that appears to have been copied from South Africa is the optical-electronic pod on China's ZW-9 combat helicopter, which bears a strong resemblance to the Leo-II serial O/E pods produced by the Zeiss Co.

    Technical experts from the Zeiss Co. told the author that about seven to eight years ago Zeiss exported two sets of an earlier variant of the Leo-II O/E pods to China, intended for use on helicopters. According to the source, the Chinese side explained that they needed a large number of this type of O/E pods for civilian helicopters, and therefore would like to purchase two sets initially for testing purposes. The source said the Chinese took no further action after receiving the test pods.

    Currently, both the ZW-10 and the night version, the ZW-9, are equipped with O/E detectors very similar to those on the Leo-II.

    China's interest is not only in the O/E pod technologies used for helicopters. Chinese manufacturers have also engaged in active discussions with South Africa in hopes of acquiring TV video cameras and second-generation thermal imaging cameras used in Denel's Seeker II unmanned air vehicle surveillance system.

    The top military technology that China aspires to acquire from South Africa is without doubt the unmanned air vehicle. China's New Era Group Corp. had several rounds of negotiations with Denel on the possibility of producing in China two types of Denel UAVs, which were on display at the 2006 Zhuhai Air Show, called the Golden Eagle and the Seeker II.

    China hopes to obtain the technologies to assemble these two UAVs domestically. However, according to a source from the Denel Group, negotiations on the UAV deals have come to a halt and the company has decided that unless substantial progress is made on these negotiations, the company no longer wants to spend time dealing with the Chinese.

    Denel had a similar experience in trying to negotiate a deal with Chinese company Norinco for its Mokopa anti-tank missiles. The Chinese company expressed an interest in importing Denel's technologies, but once again the negotiations ended with no result.

    Since 2007 Norinco has attempted to contact the Denel Group again, saying it wants to import the company's G5 155mm howitzer ammunition handling system. But Denel is not eager to enter into an agreement with China on this project; Chinese-made 155mm howitzers already have appeared in quite a number of countries in Northern Africa, including Algeria, Sudan and Egypt.

    The source from Denel did disclose that the company has successfully completed a deal with China for its 35mm multirole machine gun. This technology, in fact, was exported to China 10 years ago. China seems to have upgraded this 35mm gun to an air-defense machine gun.

    China's New Era Group Corp. also has been negotiating with Denel for the transfer of African Eagle UAV technologies. The Chinese introductory brochure of the cooperation program claims that the African Eagle UAV is capable of taking a payload of 500 kilograms, which could be six Mokopa anti-tank missiles or two Umbani MK 81 precision-guided bombs. The theoretical combat radius of the African Eagle is 750 kilometers.

    China also hopes to obtain the South African Angel high-altitude and high-speed UAV attacker system. This attacker UAV is capable of carrying precision-guided weapons and attacking targets 1,400 kilometers away. The UAV is also capable of carrying A-Darter AAMs to launch unmanned aerial attacks.

    The Angel attacker and reconnaissance UAV is equipped with aperture radar and is capable of conducting tactical reconnaissance missions. It also can be fitted with Mokopa active laser-guided anti-tank missiles to attack armored combat groups.

    Nonetheless, the source from Denel disclosed that no substantial progress has been made on this project, indicating it may end up as one more failed deal. It remains to be seen whether China's latest explorations with the company will yield technological information it can convert to its own purposes, however.
     
  2. Bantugbro

    Bantugbro JF-Expert Member

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    Tumekusikia,
    Tutalifanyia kazi..
     
  3. M

    Magezi JF-Expert Member

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    this has nothing to do with our weak TPDF
     
  4. Kang

    Kang JF-Expert Member

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    Wachina wanatisha kwa kuphotocopy vitu vya watu.
     
  5. Kivuko

    Kivuko Member

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    Oct 31, 2009
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    I wish Tanzania could at least manage to copy good and useful stuffs from others..,they call it technology transfer right?!
     
  6. M

    Merchant Member

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    Nov 1, 2009
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    Mie na wasiwasi sana hata ile Rada tuliyonunua Uingereza tulitumiwa tu na hawa WaChina tununue ili wao watumie kwa kuwa China marufuku kununua vitu kama hivyo EU au USA. Lile rada nasikia wala halipo au tulibadilishiwa bomu. Haya ni mawazo yangu tu kwa kuwa hivi vi-nchi vyetu vipo corrupt mno na ndiyo rafiki wa China.
     
  7. Bantugbro

    Bantugbro JF-Expert Member

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    baada ya kulifanyia kazi nimegundia kuwa hata hawa wasauzi wanatumiwa na wachina... kumbuka DENEL ni kampuni ya serikali na iko ktk wakati mgumu sana kifedha kwa sasa. Kwa hiyo hakuna offence yeyote, mwandishi wa habari hii hajui kinachoendelea kati ya serikali yake na wachina!
     
  8. K

    Kindimbajuu JF-Expert Member

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    hawa wasauzi ni wazushi na waongo, hawawezi kuwa na technologies kubwa kiasi hicho, amazi wametumia pesa mingi halafu wasi zi- patent. kama kila kitu kingekuwa patented. hata kuuza equipment moja kusinge wawezesha wachina ku copy. nami najishawishi kuwa ndani ya denel kuna mchezo mchafu. ktk dunia ye leo hakuna mtu ana discover kitu akakiacha kina elea tu. hata aliyegundua shape ya kijiko cha chakula ali patent kazi yake ,na ulimwengu unajua kuwa yeyote anayetengeneza kijiko ajue nani ni mwanzilishi na apewe kilichochake.
     
  9. R

    Rubabi Senior Member

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    Wasauzi wana teknologia ya juu sana hasa kwenye silaha hawa jamaa wamenza R&D tangia zamani sana.Wamekwishauza missiles na silaha nyingine mpaka hata ulaya.Kwa mfano missile yao ya umkhonto is one of the best in the world mpaka wa finland ndio wanaitumia kwenye meli zao.
     
  10. Bantugbro

    Bantugbro JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu wa idara,
    Teknolojia ipo na vijana wanachapa kazi kwelikweli! tatizo ni huo ufisadi wa wanasiasa wa kuwapatia wachina BP za bidhaa zao. kwa mfanyakazi wa kawaida hawezi elewa kinachoendelea zaidi ya kulalamikia wachina wezi kumbe ni wakuu wake ndo wanao-arrange picha zote.

    Zaidi ya DENEL pia Kuna kampuni nyingine za kibinafsi za wasauzi ambazo zinatengeneza silaha, sehemu za ndege za kivita na magari ya kivita.

    tovuti ya DENEL hii hapa http://www.deneldynamics.co.za/home.asp?Page=UmkhontoIR

    Amani.
     
  11. Kang

    Kang JF-Expert Member

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    Nadhani patent za silaha inakuwa ngumu zaidi maana unabidi uanike functionality in public, kitu ambacho hakifai kwa silaha.
     
  12. Kivuko

    Kivuko Member

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    Hicho wanachofanya wachina nikitu cha kawaida sana China,Taiwa,Korea and South East Asia.

    wanafahamu kuwa hawana Utaalamu wa kubuni au kuunda kitu kipya ila wana-UJUZI wa kugezea.

    kwa mfano kwenye "consultancy".mchezo wa makampuni ya kichina mengi ni kutoa Tenders zenye bei nzuri kuliko uhalisia wa soko.Baada ya hapo wanawaachia wale wanaopeleka bids zao kuvuana nguo kwa kupigania ULAJI.

    muda mwingi huchelewesha zoezi zima la utoaji tenda kwa zaidi hata ya miezi sita ili kuendelea kuvuna ujuzi kutoka kwa makampuni yanayowasilisha nyaraka zao za tenda.mwisho wa siku hutoa tenda kwa kampuni moja na nyaraka zinazobaki mali yao.

    so watakuwa na nyaraka za makampuni kibao,lakini watalipa kwa kampuni moja tu.zinazobaki BURE.

    nimeshuhudia wakifanya hivyo kwenye "finance" na "IT" kwa hiyo sidhani kama watashindwa kwenye silaha.

    sometimes you have got to love their persistence,and how they are able to beat others in their own games.
     
  13. R

    Raj Patel Member

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    The title of this thread is misleading. It should be "China stealing Afrikaner Technology" not "China stealing African Technology". Africans have no technology to steal from. The military technology mentioned in the article is a work of Afrikaners not Africans. The only military technology Africans have been able to come up with on their own is spear, bow/arrow and other rudimentary weapons. Certainly not missiles or any other sophisticated modern weapons. Such weapons require advanced knowledge of science and mathematics that Africans do not posses. If you disagree then name few notable African mathematicians and scientists. You would be hard press to find one. For example there are no Nobel prizes in scientific field ever awarded to an African.
     
  14. Ndjabu Da Dude

    Ndjabu Da Dude JF-Expert Member

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    And what exactly does the label "African" mean to you? You'll have to provide a 100% precise and exhaustive definition that takes into consideration all sufficient and necessary criteria of what "African" means to you.
     
  15. R

    Raj Patel Member

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    African means someone native to Africa. Is that precise and exhaustive enough?
     
  16. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    You already know what he means by "African". He is talking about the "raw Africans"...whatever the hell that is ...Lol
     
  17. Kivuko

    Kivuko Member

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    We do have African Natives with extraordinary skills in science and Technology.

    Check here

    http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/madgreatest.html

    You seem to be blinded by our humble life.even Chinese were down than Africans..,one day we will rise and all this nonsense will stop.
     
  18. Kivuko

    Kivuko Member

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    Ever Heard of this guy?David Blackwell
    and this one?
    Frank Nabarro
    and one of the reason you can put Africans down in this forum,
    philip Emeagwali, who is believed to have found the internet in a sense that his work helped many computers to communicate with each other.

    once again don't put us-africans down!we already are,please
     
  19. Kivuko

    Kivuko Member

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    Philip Emeagwali was awarded the Institute of Electronics and Electrical Engineers' Gordon Bell Prize in 1989, considered the Nobel Prize of computing,and he is one of the founding fathers of the internet as you know it.and he is "very" AFRICAN.
     
  20. Ndjabu Da Dude

    Ndjabu Da Dude JF-Expert Member

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    Sorry, but that just isn't good enough. You'll have to explain precisely what you mean by "native" and by "Africa".
     
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