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CHADEMA, Vipi Tuuboreshe Muungano?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by zomba, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Ni imani yangu kabisa ya kisiasa, hususan hii tuliyonayo sasa ya vyama vingi, ni kuwa vyama vya upinzani ni chachu ya maendeleo kwa Taifa, upinzani ni wasimamizi wakuu wa madudu yoyote yataefanywa na yeyote awepo katika uongozi wa Serikali. Kwa kuwa CHADEMA kwa kipindi hiki ni chama kikuu cha upinzani nchini Tanzania

    Naomba maoni ya wana chadema vipi Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar uboreshwe?
     
  2. A

    Albimany JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 6, 2012
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    Tuuvuje ndio njia pekee ya kuboresha muungano.

    Nikuffanulie labda hujanifahamu muungano wa undugu wa watu kama ilivyo wakenya na warundi au majirani wengine

    utabakia lakini huu wa kiserekali mwisho wake umefika.

    Wazanzibari hawako tena kwenye hoja za serekali tatu wala kumi hizo zilikua enzi za cuf, lakini sasa enzi za uamsho hautakiwi tena.

    watanganyika musihribu pesa zenu kufanya katiba mpya kwa upande wa zanzibar kwa niijuavyo zanzibar ya sasa muungano kukatika nilazima siku tu haijajuilikana.
     
  3. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Hilo wazo lako nimelisoma na nilishawahi kuli "suggest" kwenye nyuzi moja humuhumu JF. Sijui ndugu zetu wa chama kikuu cha upinzani Tanzania nao wana maoni yepi?
     
  4. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #4
    Jun 6, 2012
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    zomba, Mkuu wangu nitazungumza kama Mkandara na mwanachama kipenzi wa chama cha Upinzani japokuwa mawazo yangu sii lazima yachukuliwe na uongozi wa Chadema.

    Swala la Muungano sii swala la kuzungumzwa na Chadema isipokuwa litazungumzwa na wale wenye kero za Muungano wenyewe. Kwa maana kwamba Kama Wazanzibar wanaona kuna ubaya wa kuungana ni jukumu lao wao Wazanzibar kukaa chini na kulizungumza. Wanao viongozi wao toka vyama bunge na hata rais hivyo kama hawaridhiki na muungano ni swala lao wao kulijadili na kisha kwa kupitia viongozi wao ndipo wanaweza kutukaribisha sisi kujadili maamuzi yao. Chademna kama chama ina viongozi na wanachama wake Wazanzibar ambao kwa kuheshimu katiba ya nchi wamekubali kuulinda Muungano. Kama kuna hila yoyote kwanza tuvunje Baraza la Mapinduzi halafu ndipo tunaweza kuwa na mamlaka ya kujadili nafasi ya Zanzibar ktk muungano na jinsi ya kuuboresha..

    Haiwezekani kabisa sisi bara tukae kuzungumzia Muungano wakati viongozi wao ndio viongozi ktk serikali ya Muungano na wanafanya kazi pasipo kuonyesha kero hizo isipokuwa wanazizungumzia vijiweni. Kama Dr.Shein anaona kuna kero na Mapungufu ktk Muungano na akawakilisha hoja ya Wazanzibar bado sisi tunaweza kukaa nao tukaijadili. Kama baraza la Mapinduzi limekaa na kuona haja ya Zanzibar kujitenga basi hapo tunaweza kulijadili lakini sii Jumuiya ya kundi la watu ambao wanashindwa kuwauliza viongozi wao, wanashindwa kukaa na viongozi wao kuwakilisha hoja zao lakini wanataka majibu yatoke Bara au serikali ya Jamhuri ya Muungano. Hili haliwezekani..


    Na haiwezekani kwa sababu Baraza la Mapinduzi halitaki kuuvunja Muungano maana iikumbukwe ni baraza hili lilofanya Mapinduzi na kuunda serikali ya nchi mpya ya Zanzibar wala sii ile ya Uhuru wa Shamte ilomsimamisha Sultan kama mtawala. Bado kuna vijana wanafikria Zanzibar ya Sultan na uhuru wa Zanzibar ya Sultan kama vile Wazungu wa Zimbabwe wanaofikiria Uhuru wa Ian Smith na Rhodesia. Uhuru ule haupo na ulikufa kutokana na Mapinduzi hivyo ni jukumu la baraza la Mapinduzi kutoa maamuzi.

    Kama wananchi wa Zanzibar hawakubaliani na maamuzi ya baraza hili basi wafanya nao Arab spring kuliondoa baraza la mapinduzi maana unaanza kwako kusafisha. Pasipo baraza la Mapinduzi hakuna muungano, huyu ndiye mama wa kuwepo kwa Zanzibar ndani ya Muungano. Nimesema sana ya kwamba hata siku moja mtoto hawezi kudai kuvunja ndoa ya baba na mama yake kwa sababu zake yeye. Wala hawezi kudai sheria ktk ndoa ya mzazi wake isipokuwa ni jukumu la mzazi mmoja kuweka madai hayo wala sii mtoto. Na kibaya zaidi ni ujinga ulioje kwa mtoto kudai kuona cheti cha ndoa cha baba na mama yake ili sijui afahamu kitu gani?..Cheti hakikuzaa wewe, kama una mashaka na wazazi wako kafanye DNA wewe mwenyewe pengine kweli wewe sii mtoto wao yaani sii Mzanzibar..
     
  5. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Jun 6, 2012
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    Japo mimi sio Chadema, msimamo wao ulikuwa ni kuwepo serikali 3.
     
  6. k

    kula kulala Member

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    Ndugu yangu Mkandara inaonekana wewe hujafuatilia habari katika nchi yako au hutaki kujuwa wazanzibari walishasema na baraza la mapinduzi lilisema kuwa wameyatoa mafuta katika muungano lakini watanganyika bado wamesikilia kuwa bado ni la muunganondio ukaona kuwa serekali haina la kufanya na ndio imewaachiawananchi wenyewe kudai sasa kwani wao kila wanaloseme viogozi wa bara hawataki kusikia.

    Kilichobaki ni kudai Tanganyika yenu kama sisi huku mkandara wa mkandara
     
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  7. i pad3

    i pad3 JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 6, 2012
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    Pasco solution ni kuvunja Muungano.
     
  8. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #8
    Jun 6, 2012
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    kula kulala

    Unapozungumzia swala la Mafuta una maana gani?... Hivi niulize Madini na gas yanachangia kiasi gani ktk GDP yetu na kuna kipengele kinachosema Tanzania bara na visiwani na kwa asilimia ngapi maana sielewi. Na wanapokaa bunge la Jamhuri huwa kuna matumizi ya visiwani na ya bara au?.. Kudai kwa viongozi wa Zanzibar kwamba mafuta yatolewe ama yametolewa ktk serikali ya muungano ni hoja ambayo aidha itakubaliwa ama kukataliwa.

    Nionyeshe hotuba hata moja ambayo baraza hilo limedai kujitenga kwa Zanzibar maana kusema mnasema sana watu wa vijiweni na ndio maana mihadhara inafanyika misikitini na sii bungeni wala baraza la mawaziri. Referendum tumeizungumza toka lini? mbona bado haijaitishwa na viongozi wenu kaa mlivyopiga kura za kuunda serikali ya mseto - bara tuliwaingilia?..Fanyeni hivyo wala hakuna mtu anayewashika shati wala kanzu. Kumbuka tu kwamba kama baraza hilo linataka kujitenga sidhani kama bara tunaweza kuwa na uthubutu wa kukataa maana wenye dhamana ya Mapinduzi na kuwepo kwa Zanzibar ni wao. Haijafanyika hivyo hata siku moja ila huwasikia CUF kina Maalim Seif, Jussa na wapambe wao ndio wakizungumzia zaidi kuvunja muungano.

    Dr. Shein yule pale muulizeni kama anataka kuvunja muungano. Bilal yupo muulizeni maana hawa ndio watu wenu. Alikuwepo Karume majuzi tena huyu alitaka hadi kuondoa uraia wa baadhi ya watu waliohoji Muungano warudi kwao Comoro maana wazazi wao hawakuukana Ungazija walipohamia Zanzibar. Kama kuna hasid basi yuko chumbani mwenu wenyewe. Bado huoni kama hili ni swala la Wazanzibar wenyewe na maamuzi lazima yatoke kwenu kwanza kabla ya bara au serikali ya Jamhuri kuingilia kati maana hatuna hoja. Sisi tutajadili nini?
     
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  9. Pasco_jr_ngumi

    Pasco_jr_ngumi JF-Expert Member

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    Unawauliza watu wa KANISANI?? hawawataki waislamuuu, aibu tupuuuu........

    kutana na Dr.Slaa, umuulize, sijuwi wamewakosea nn"""???
     
  10. Saint Ivuga

    Saint Ivuga JF-Expert Member

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    Mkandara usishangae ukiitwa kafiri sasa hivi..
     
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  11. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Thubutu!!!!..
     
  12. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Mkandara,

    Kero za "MUUNGANO" zitakuwaje za upande mmoja tu? ikiwa kuna Muungano ina maana kuna pande mbili zilizoungana, au sio? na ikiwa watazizungumza wa Zanzibari tu kama unavyoshauri, upande wa pili wa Muungano ukae kimya tu na kuwasikiliza? sio wakae chini wazungumze wanayokubaliana wakubaliane wasiyokubaliana wakubaliane kutokukubaliana?
     
  13. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Kwanini zaidi alichosema au alichofanya mpaka iwe hivyo?
     
  14. M

    MTK JF-Expert Member

    #14
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    Kutokana na ukweli kwamba miongoni mwa watanzania wakiwemo Watanganyika na Wazamnzibari; kuna watu wanaohoji au kuwa na wasiwasi kuhusu uhalali wa uwepo wa muungano, hakuna jinsi ya kuuboresha bali kwa watawala kukubali ukweli huo and put the UNION to the ultimate test; A REFERENDUM period.then kwa kuwa msingi wa demokrasia ni wengi Wape basi matokeo ya referendum hiyo ndio itakuwa hatima ya muungano na wala sio swala la watawala kuwa stubborn for the sake of being stubborn kwamba hakuna kuujadili muungano la hasha, inawezekana muungano umekuwa obsolete kwa mitazamo na maoni ya watu kwa wakati huu; may be the purpose for which the union was created in the first place has been served and now it is time to move on in a new dispensation!! kwa hiyo kama muungano uliundwa kwa manufaa ya watu wa nchi mbili hizi basi sasa ni wakati muafaka kuwapa fursa walengwa waamue hatima yake.
     
  15. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa mtazamo wangu watu wa kanisani wanautaka sana muungano na ndiyo maana unaona makanisa yanachipua kama uyoga kila kukicha huko Zanzibar.

    Slaa si mtu wa kanisani, alilishindwa zamani sana, kuna mtu wa kanisa anaefanya tunayoyasikia kwa Slaa?

    Chadema wana mikuki miwili iliyowakalia usoni hawajui wachomwe na upi, chadema muungano ni mwiba kwao na wanajuwa uwepo wa muungano maana yake hawatashika madaraka hata wafanye nini. Wengi wao ni wakristo na kanisa linautaka sana muungano, sasa wanachadema watafata kanisa au watafata chama?

    Ndio maana mpaka sasa hakuna mwanachadema anaekuja humu na msimamo wa chadema kama chadema kila mmoja anakuja kivyake vyake.
     
  16. CAMARADERIE

    CAMARADERIE JF-Expert Member

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    Huu muungano haukuwa na ridhaa ya wananchi. Shurti sasa ridhaa hii itafutwe
     
  17. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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  18. Steven Robert Masatu

    Steven Robert Masatu Verified User

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    mwiba

    nina swali kwako, upo upande upi chadema or ccm? siki hizi nakuona umebadilika kabisa.
     
  19. p

    politiki JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Hivi sasa muungano kiini macho unaelekea kufa ccm watake wasitake cha msingi hapa ni stay ahead of curve, why??

    kwanini chadema inabidi ibadili sera yake ya serikali tatu kwa sababu the facts have changed on the ground kwahiyo

    ni lazima chama kibadilike kwa kadri hali inavyobadilika ili kwenda na wakati na ukweli uliopo.

    Ukiangalia alichokisema mzee hassan nasor moyo na anachokisema Tundu Lissu ni sawa sawa ingawa stahili yao ni

    tofauti wote kwa pamoja wanasema yale makubaliano ya awali ya muungano yameshavunjwa kwahiyo kuna haja ya

    kuja na aina nyingine ya muungano na kwakuwa katiba ya sasa ya zanzibar imeifanya kuwa nchi huru kwa mujibu wa

    Lissu kwahiyo kuendelea kungangania serikali tatu itakuwa ni kupoteza muda kwani hakuna tena mazingira ya awali

    ambayo yangeruhusu hali kwani huwezi kuwa na serikali ya muungano wakati una nchi huru ndani yake leo hii Texas

    haiwezi kujitangaza kuwa nchi huru ikawa na rais wake huku ikijitangaza kuwa sehemu ya marekani haiwezekani.

    kwanini serikali ya mkataba ??.

    mazingira yamebadilika kwenye ground wazanzibari wameamka wanataka nchi yao na chadema ni lazima ibadilike

    ku reflect reality kwa kukubali muungano wa style ya Eurpoean union ambapo nchi huru zimeungana zikiendelea

    kushirikiana ktk mambo fulani fualni kama fedha na kadhalika na hazina serikali moja ya one size fits all.

    chadema msichelewe katiba mpya ya zanzibar imefuta mazingira ya mawazo yenu ya awali yatoka mwaka 1992

    kwani sasa si mwaka 1992 tena ni mwaka 2012 mambo yamebadilika msiwe kama ccm ambayo bado inaendelea

    kungangania mawazo ya mwaka 1964 yameshapitwa na wakati hayo.
     
  20. GHIBUU

    GHIBUU JF-Expert Member

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