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CHADEMA na Utata wa kimantiki

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by TandaleOne, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. TandaleOne

    TandaleOne JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Hatuwezi kukubali mabadiliko na kisha kupinga chanzo cha mabadiliko hayo, ukifanya hivyo utajiingiza ktk utata wa kimantiki- ni kauli niliyowahi kuisoma katika moja ya vitabu vya falsafa nilivyowahi kuvisoma.,ni kauli inayotokana na mmoja wa magwiji wa falsafa duniani na waasisi wa somo hillo.,socrates..,ni wazi kuwa alikuwa anamaanisha ni vigumu kwa watu wenye ufahamu wa mambo kupinga mamlaka na nafasi ya JK kama Rais na kisha kukubali kuwa anayo nafasi ya kufanya maamuzi juu ya mchakato wa kikatiba.
    hakika huu ni utata...!
     
  2. Calnde

    Calnde JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Nadhani tuweke ushabiki pembeni tuangalie uhalisia. Katika mchakato huu wa katiba Chadema hawakupinga mamlaka wala nafasi ya

    JK kama raisi. Wanachosema ni kuwa katika mchakato huu amepewa mamlaka makubwa. Sasa mamlaka makubwa ya raisi yanaweza

    yasiwe ishu ili nini matokeo yake? Ikiwa mchakato huu unampa raisi mwisho wa siku uwezo wa kuamua katiba iweje, aweke

    anachotaka na kuondoa asichopenda nini itakuwa maana ya katiba? Hapo yeyote ana haki ya kupinga. Chadema in general

    wamemkubali JK De facto and not De jure hivyo hawawezi wakapinga mamlaka yake completly na ndio maana wameunda kamati

    kuongea nae. Sijaona mgongano wa mantiki hata kidogo hapo.
     
  3. M

    Mbopo JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Hawa jamaa wamekuwa ni waliaji hata pasipostahili. Sheria hii wanayoipinga imetokana na frame work ya sasa ambapo Katiba inatambua mamlaka makubwa ya Rais. Lakini sioni ni kwa namna gani hiyo itaathiri kupatikana kwa katiba mpya kwa sababu maoni ya Tume hiyo hayatakuwa ya mwisho maana kutakuwa na bunge la katiba na hatimaye referendum itakayoamua aina ya mfumo wa uongozi tunaoutaka na certainly, wale watakaokuwa wanaunga mkono na kupinga watapita kupiga kampeni na kuwaeleza wananchi mabaya au mazuri ya rasimu ya katiba. Shida iko wapi?
     
  4. a

    agger New Member

    #4
    Nov 22, 2011
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    tuache ushabiki, ukweli wote upo kwenye hotuba ya mbowe: the president can twist the constitution bail as he wants because of this law passed by CCM & cuf MPs!
     
  5. Mikael P Aweda

    Mikael P Aweda JF Gold Member

    #5
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Chadema siku zote wanapenda amani, hawakuwahi kutafuta vurugu. Wametoa maoni yao Bungeni kwa njia ya hotuba ya msemaji wao - Lissu, hawakusikilizwa.
    Sasa wanajaribu second option, ya kumshawishi JK kwa faida ya watanzania kwamba asisaini mswada huo ili kupata mwafaka wa Kitaifa na kisha kupata katiba ya kitaifa.
    Ifahamike, mchakato huu uliokwishapingwa na wasomi, wanaharakati na chama kikuu cha upinzani hauwezi kuacha kuleta vurugu JK asipowasikiliza. Chadema wanasaka amani. Utata wa kimantiki sijauona.
    Mamlaka ya JK yanayopingwa ni yale aliyopewa na mswada mpya wa mabadiliko ya katiba, siyo mamlaka aliyopewa na katiba hii mbovu.
    JK bado ni rais hata kama urais wake umepatikana kwa njia tata kwa mujibu wa katiba yetu mbovu.
    Huwezi kumkana baba yako aliyekuzaa hata kama baba yako huyo alimbaka mama yako. Huna namna, japo kuwa hupendi ubakaji. Katiba mbovu ndo imeshamweka japo kwa kubaka demokrasia, sasa unapotaka chadema wasiende kumwona Rais, unataka waende msituni kupambana? Hiyo njia hatuipendi kwa faida ya watanzania. Hakuna utata wa mantiki.
     
  6. Shapu

    Shapu JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Nov 22, 2011
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    hata ulivyo present mada yako ni utata, nawe ni mtata!
     
  7. W

    WATANABE JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Msingi wa kurekebish/kutengeneza Katiba ni maridhiano ya kitaifa kama aliyekuwa mwasisi wa taifa hili na Katina husika alishawahi kutamka kuwa Katiba hii ina mapungufu makubwa kwa kuwa inampa Raisi madaraka makubwa sana kana haja gani ya kufuata hicho unachoita framework? Are there no alternatives? Mbona wadau wengine wa taifa hili walikuwa na opinion tofauti? Kilichokosekana katika huu mchakato ni goodwill, and once there is no goodwill whata can guarantee a better constitution? Machiner ya CCM imefanya makusudi kuua goodwill ya kutengenezwa kwa free and fair constitution kwa kuweka mwanya kwa CCM kuwa na robo atu ya wabunge katika bunge la kutunga katiba. The referendum will be under the same Commision ambayo imekuwa ikilalamikiwa miaka nenda rudi. Kwa kauli zako ni kuwa CCM tukubali ucgakachuaji wa katiba kama ambavyo huwa tunakubali uchakachuaji wa kura zetu
     
  8. m

    mtolewa Senior Member

    #8
    Nov 22, 2011
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    at least hujui unachokisema ama unasema usichokiamini ambao ni unafiki
     
  9. Nyambala

    Nyambala JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 22, 2011
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    As if kuna siku umewahi kuappreciate maamuzi au uwepo wa CHADEMA hahaha ahahaha!!!!!!! Ni ngumu sana kuelewa CDM wanadai nini kama unaongozwa na ideology especially, ideology ya ki-CCM CCM.
     
  10. CHIETH

    CHIETH Senior Member

    #10
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Hata hiyo falsafa yako uliyosoma haijakufanya uelewe jinsi JK wako anavyoongoza hii nchi hovyo hovyo tu. Naomba utumie falsafa yako kuelemisha watanzania wajue wajibu juu ya Katiba mpya.
     
  11. TandaleOne

    TandaleOne JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Kuna wakati ni vigumu kumuelimisha asiye tayari kuelimika.,lakini nitajitahidi hasa kwa wale waliotayari kuelewa uhalisia wa mchakato wa katiba.,naanza kwa utambuzi wa ninaotarajia kuwaelimisha.,nikianza na wewe hasa ktk kauli yako ya JK kuongoza nchi "hovyohovyo" nipe vigezo vikuu vitatu.
     
  12. j

    jigoku JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Iweje raisi atengue hata maoni yatakayokusanywa?iweje yeye awe ndio mwenye mamlaka ya mwisho juu ya katiba wakati katiba ni ya wananchi wala sio ya CCM? na ni vipi wakatae kukusanya maoni kuanzia hapa kwenye mswaada kabla haijawa sheria?maana kukusanya maoni ya wananchi wakati sheria imewekwa itakayo oongoza uchambuzi au uchukuaji wa maoni hayo ni mbovu ni jambo lisilokubalika maana ni sawa na kiini macho tu,hapo lazima yeye na chama chake nndio watakaotutengenezea katiba.Na je watu wengine hamoni au ni ujeuri tu,kwani ni wapi mswaada huo ulijadiliwa?mara baada ya kurekebishwa na kupewa tafsiri ya kiswahili?hata ulipokuwa wa kingereza mmesahau ulijadiliwa miji mitatu tu yaani Dodoma,Zanzibar kule stone town na Dar,je hiyo ndo Tanzania?Tuwe wakweli hakuna cha mgongano wa kifkra wala nini ni ufisadi wa CCM na CCM B walioungana kuendeleza ufisadi na unyonyaji wa wananchi wakiwemo na wanachama wao na wapenzi wa vyama vyao wasio viongozi
     
  13. k

    kiloni JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Unachotetea ni nini hasa!? Ni lini umepata kuona muswada unaopita bungeni ambao chama tawala hawautaki ni lini: Bunge la katiba kwa uwiano wa sasa ni kiini macho kingine!

    Ni Bunge la CCM!! Rais mwenyekiti wa CCM anakuwa na mamlaka makubwa ya kuunda katiba na ayarudishe yale aliyoridhia katika Bunge la CCM. Insanity!

    Udhibiti uko wapi???
     
  14. t

    thatha JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Nov 22, 2011
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    ombi langu kwa rais kikwete,wapokee wanakamati ya cdm kuhusu katiba,muungwana ni vitendo,hutapungukiwa na kitu chochote kwa kukaa nao meza moja sana sana utajiongezea heshima.hata kama kuna mahali walikosea huko nyuma mfano huko bungeni,never mind,wewe ni baba.
     
  15. b

    bubukapoka Member

    #15
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Sikulaumu,ni uelewa wako mdogo tu:A S 465:,wanachokifanya CDM kinamantiki na kitakusaidia sio ww tu bali hata vitukuu vyako
     
  16. Mundali

    Mundali JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Shida iko hivi:

    1. Tunajiwekea taratibu ambazo hatuzifuati, (mfano sheria ya uchaguzi ya mwaka 2010) je tutaweza kuleta katiba yenye usawa?

    2. Mchakato wa sheria ya mabadiliko ya katiba haukufuata kanuni za bunge (yaani ulirudishwa kufanyiwa marekebisho bila ruhusa ya bunge), na ukalazimishwa na CCM usomwe kwa mara ya pili kinyume na kanuni ya 86 ya bunge. Spika akatumia kofia yake ya ujumbe wa CC ya CCM kuwezesha uvunjifu huu wa kanuni za kudumu za bunge.

    3. Kama walitumia wingi wa wabunge wa CCM kulazimisha kupitishwa kwa muswada huo, na wanatumia urais kuufanya uwe sheria, itashindikana vipi kuwa na tume yenye utii kwa CCM?

    4. Bunge maalum la katiba litatokana na wabunge waliopo (zaidi ya 75% CCM), wajumbe wa baraza la wawakilishi (zaidi ya 50% CCM), na wateule wengine 116 wa rais toka kwenye asasi mbalimbali na taasisi za kidini. Kwa hesabu rahisi sana bunge maalum la katiba tayari lina wajumbe 65% wanatokana na CCM, na kwa kuwa tumejionea wenyewe jinsi wanavyoshikamana linapokuwa ni suala la chama, twtegemea pia kuona katiba mpya yenye kufanana kimantiki na katiba iliyopo.

    5. Kura ya maoni itasimamiwa na tume ya uchaguzi (iliyotumia karatasi zinazofutika kunakili matokeo ya uchaguzi 2010), ambayo watendaji wake wote ni wateule wa rais, ambaye ndiye atatoa mapendekezo ya mwisho kabla ya kura ya maoni, nadhani tutakuwa na katiba ya rais.
     
  17. Mundali

    Mundali JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Nov 22, 2011
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    1. Maisha bora kwa kila mtanzania (Umeme masaa 24 nchi nzima, elimu bora kabisa kidato cha nne ufaulu 150%, mtihani wa hesabu jibu ni "B", Vyuo vya elimu ya juu Laptop 1 kila mwanafunzi, kila mkulima kakopeshwa trekta, kila mvuvi kakopeshwa boti ya kisasa na vifaa vya kuvulia, Gesi, mafuta bei poa).
    2. Ari Mpya Nguvu Mpya Kasi Mpya (Semina elekezi Ngurdoto, Buzwagi, TRL, RICHMOND, DOWANS, ...................)
    3. Ari Zaidi Kasi Zaidi Nguvu Zaidi (Semina elekezi Dodoma, JAIRO & washkaji zake, ........................ )


    NEED WE SAY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. K

    Kelvin mwalukas Member

    #18
    Nov 22, 2011
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    kwa kuongeza; ukimsikiliza jk juzi akiongea na wazee dar, anasema muswada uko km ulivyo kwa sababu za kikatiba na hakuna mahali alipoipindisha, waziri wake wa katiba nae anamtetea kwa hoja hiyo hiyo.
    Sa tujiulize jk kapewa mamlaka yote hayo kupitia katiba ipi? Iliopo? Mbona ndiyo inayopingwa kwaba ni mbovu? Tutapataje
     
  19. GeniusBrain

    GeniusBrain JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Mie niliyajua tu haya kuwa lazima mumlambe viatu JK ili awatimizie ya kwenu , na hili limetimia sasa. Mnakaribishwa ikulu kunywa chai haina shida na kama mnataka kumuona Rais , ila muswada lazima usainiwe hakuna kipingamizi na sheria mli bugi step wenyewe.
     
  20. K

    Kelvin mwalukas Member

    #20
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Katiba ni mali ya watanzani, na sio rais na waziri wake. Kuruhusu raisi awe na mamla makubwa kwenye mchakato huu ni tusi kubwa kwa wtz, ni sawa na kumwambia mama mzazi kwamba unaweza ukamzaa, kwan katiba ndio inayo muweka raisi madarakani.

    Jk na waziri wake wanadai muswada huu wa katiba umeundwa kwa misingi ya katiba iliyopo na hakuna mahali imevunjwa, hivi 2tawezaje kupata katiba mpya bora kwa misingi ya katiba hii mbovu iliyopo sasa?

    Ni vyema jk akawackiliza chadema. They have a point!
     
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