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Central Kenya MPs now back Majimbo

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Alai, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. Alai

    Alai Member

    #1
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    Thats what they are. They are cunning theives and they knew that Kenyans want Majimbo. Now they support it.
     
  2. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Siasa za majimbo bwana! Tazama Nigeria has majimbo made things any better? Given the preveiling ethnic tensions there is a danger majimbo may create more disunity!

    Kani Wananchi wanhitaji majimbo au maisha bora? Is majimbo= maisha bora in resource poor countries?
     
  3. Alai

    Alai Member

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    Why do you have to look at Nigeria while India and USA are all Majimbo countries which are bigger and betterb democrasy? Why do you have to have the to look at the Negative influences? Kibaki has balkanised Kenya tribally. Only majimbo can rescue that. Other Kenyans cant work freely in Kikuyu towns. Try setting up a shop in Murang'a, you will be killed and your shop burned at daytime and the police will not dare come to your rescue. But Kikuyus can freely set up shop and do business in every town in Kenya including my small market, Ahero. Thats selfishness and its only Majimbo which can reverse it.
     
  4. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Hope you dont mean with Majimbo the Kikuyu will have to go back to Kikuyuland- this is the danger of disunity all Kenyans will one day regret!

    In Tz we have Chagga from kilimanjaro who are all over Tz but they live happily and married to other tribes!
    Remember scarcity of land in the central areas and freedom of movement in a free Kenya!
     
  5. Alai

    Alai Member

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    Kenyans will regret nothing. We dont mean that Kyuks have to go back to central. No. We mean that Kenyans will be more equitably governed. Sio wengine contribute nothing to the state coffers and they receive everything. the percentage of the taxes of Kikuyu lands and what they get in return is just not fair to other Kenyans.

    There is nothing like scarcity. Kwani there is only scarcity to them? Even the other 41 Kenyan tribes see scarcity. Thats the jinx of the Kibaki administration. They want other Kenyans to live with them well and they do nothing to live with other Kenyans well. They would rather behead other Kenyans. Thats the most absurd thing in it.
     
  6. Kenyan-Tanzanian

    Kenyan-Tanzanian JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 5, 2007
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    Well, Mzalendo I must say that I admire your spirited campaign for the Central Kenya mafia that has really brought shame and disgrace to the Independence dream of Kenya. Big up.

    Nevertheless look at the issues at hand more closely than the issues in the imagination. It is true as Aldai puts it that our fellow countrymen have established themselves all over the rest of the country but do not tolerate the same from their fellow countrymen.

    What a Majimbo dispensation will realize is not the expulsion of these economic migrants from Central Kenya from the provinces they currently inhabit. La hasha. The regional administrations will ensure that 85% of the tax drawn from their businesses in these provinces (eg Nyanza) remains in Nyanza and does not find its way back to Central province as is the case now.

    Let us take the example of members of this community living in Kitale in the Rift Valley. Instead of them siphoning profit out of the locals of Rift Valley and sending this capital back to Central province, the majimbo administration of Rift Valley province will ensure that these businessmen stay, do business and prosper in Rift Valley but taxes accruing from their success will build Rift Valley for both the migrants and the locals.

    Let us not demonise Majimbo or Ugatuzi as we prefer to call it. Let us demonise the evil people who want to manipulate systems of whichever type to benefit a minority at the expense of the majority occupying the same geopolitical spaces. Human beings, in my view are animals just like biologists tell us, and competition for scarcity of resources should not favor one group at the expense of the other. If this case appears, as is the case with Kenya, one day it will surely explode into a genocidal event and History shall judge us all accordingly.

    Let our fellow countrymen allow the ethics of generosity prevail under the Ugatuzi arrangement. It is the wish of the majority of the citizens of the Republic of Kenya. One province cannot hold seven other provinces hostage with its twisted logic not unless it is ready also to face the consequences of logical human behaviour or misbehaviour when enough becomes enough.

    Prevention is better than cure and dialogue is not the act of talking to yourself....PNU and its people must know this.

    ----------

    Big up Aldai. Ugatuzi, Raila, ODM and the Bomas Constitution tukisonga mbelee.
     
  7. Alai

    Alai Member

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    Raila is infact inspecting a guard of honour. Go RAILA go!!!!
     
  8. Kenyan-Tanzanian

    Kenyan-Tanzanian JF-Expert Member

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    Well, Mzalendo I must say that I admire your spirited campaign for the Central Kenya mafia that has really brought shame and disgrace to the Independence dream of Kenya. Big up.

    Nevertheless look at the issues at hand more closely than the issues in the imagination. It is true as Alai puts it that our fellow countrymen have established themselves all over the rest of the country but do not tolerate the same from their fellow countrymen.

    What a Majimbo dispensation will realize is not the expulsion of these economic migrants from Central Kenya from the provinces they currently inhabit. La hasha. The regional administrations will ensure that 85% of the tax drawn from their businesses in these provinces (eg Nyanza) remains in Nyanza and does not find its way back to Central province as is the case now.

    Let us take the example of members of this community living in Kitale in the Rift Valley. Instead of them siphoning profit out of the locals of Rift Valley and sending this capital back to Central province, the majimbo administration of Rift Valley province will ensure that these businessmen stay, do business and prosper in Rift Valley but taxes accruing from their success will build Rift Valley for both the migrants and the locals.

    Let us not demonise Majimbo or Ugatuzi as we prefer to call it. Let us demonise the evil people who want to manipulate systems of whichever type to benefit a minority at the expense of the majority occupying the same geopolitical spaces. Human beings, in my view are animals just like biologists tell us, and competition for scarcity of resources should not favor one group at the expense of the other. If this case appears, as is the case with Kenya, one day it will surely explode into a genocidal event and History shall judge us all accordingly.

    Let our fellow countrymen allow the ethics of generosity prevail under the Ugatuzi arrangement. It is the wish of the majority of the citizens of the Republic of Kenya. One province cannot hold seven other provinces hostage with its twisted logic not unless it is ready also to face the consequences of logical human behaviour or misbehaviour when enough becomes enough.

    Prevention is better than cure and dialogue is not the act of talking to yourself....PNU and its people must know this.

    ----------

    Big up Alai. Ugatuzi, Raila, ODM and the Bomas Constitution tukisonga mbelee.
     
  9. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

    #9
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    Well all that said, given the Majimbo or no majimbo- it is the responsibility of Central govt to collect taxes and use it in underdeveloped areas! The scheme of administrators collecting taxes and 85% utilizing it where is collected is not clear for me!
    60% of GDP in Kenya is generated in Nairobi -should 85% of this income be used in nairobi only?
    In Tz this financial budget regions such as Lind, Rukwa and Ruvuma have been allocated 15 bl Tshs more from Central budget- this to address imbalance!
    Remember undeserved arears may not have many resources- and majimbo may do more harm than good!
     
  10. M

    Mnyalu Member

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    Nov 5, 2007
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    Yaelekea Mzalendo halisi hajui kabisa kuhusu majimbo, yeye anafikiria majimbo maana yake mchaga akae kwao na msukuma akae kwao!Ndio fikra ambayo akina Kikwete waliwapandikiza watanzania wakati chadema ilipokuja na sera ya namna hiyo.Ama anahitaji kupata somo vizuri!ama kujisomea zaidi jinsi utawala wa majimbo unavyokuwa.Nadhani hii njia ya pili ingekuwa mwafaka zaidi,watu wakizoea kutafuniwa sana wanalemaa akili.
     
  11. M

    Mnyalu Member

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    Central Government imeprove failure...tusiwe waoga kubadilika, hasa hasa kwa kuangalia mifano Chanya...mchangia aliyetoa mifano ya India na Marekani..(ugomvi wa Nigeria hauhusiana na kuwa na sera ya Majimbo) Kwa ufipi hakuna Jimbo Tanzania(ukichukulia kwa mfano wa kanda ambazo tunazo sasa) lililo masikini, ni kwamba tu resourse zilizopo hazijatumiwa ipasavyo ama kuvumbuliwa.. Nani amekwambia Mikoa ya kusini ni masikini?kuna nishati umeme ambayo ikiboreshwa yaweza toa huduma maeneo ya jirani,hata majirani kwa zetu ,wanatoa korosho bora ambazo zina uwezo wa kushindana kwenye soko la dunia...Serikali kuu iko mbali mno na ndio yachukua ng'ombe wote,linaamua kupeleka linapotaka... serikali za mitaa ziko kama vivuli tu,wanapangiwa vijipesa vinavyokuwa na masharti kutoka serikali kuu, wakati hao wanaopanga hayo masharti hawajui hata mahitaji halisi ya wanachi huku chini.....Viva Raila na Majimbo yako!Fanikisha Kenya, naamini CHADEMA WATAKUJA NAYO TENA 2010.
     
  12. Kenyan-Tanzanian

    Kenyan-Tanzanian JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Nov 5, 2007
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    Nashukuru kwa kuongeza sauti yako kwenye choir hii ambayo tunaimbia majimbo kama namna ya serekali inayoweza leta tofauti fulani itakayoboresha maisha ya wananchi wengi zaidi Kenya na hata Tanzania.

    Mzalendo. Sio ukweli kwamba Nairobi inaleta 60% ya GDP ya Kenya. Ukweli ni kwamba thirty percent yatoka Nairobi lakini 70% inatoka mikoa mingine haswa Coast (tourism) and Rift Valley (agriculture). Ya msingi ni hili. California inacontrol taxes asilimia 65 na inatuma 35% kwa Federal government Washington DC. Vile vile Florida inafanya hivyo. Iji iwepo that Florida ni maskini zaidi kuliko California basi Federal government washington DC itatuma hela zaidi Florida kuliko ile itatumwa California. Undugu wa jimbo hizi mbili utatokana na wanaCalifornia kuelewa bayana kwamba kaka zao Florida wanahitaji zaidi (affirmative actions).

    Why build another airport in Nairobi or Coast province when there are two big ones there already? Why not build Kenya's next airport in North eastern province where there is none? Federal systems of government call for brotherhood and unity through cooperation rather than unity through coercion.

    Who said that the Unitary system of government has benefited Tanzania or Kenya for that matter? Why dont we try other options. It is only fools who dont change their minds. If something is working then there is no need to fix it. But if it isnt working then fixing it we must.

    I urge you Mzalendo to engage the Bomas Draft of the Republic of Kenya which is available from Raila's website below this page. See how the constitutional experts in Kenya framed the majimbo administration. Read it and see what we mean when we say that the lion's share will be controlled by the jimbos and the lion's share of the federal government in Nairobi shall go to the jimbos in urgent need most. JF cannot offer sufficient space to conduct a detailed exegesis of the 780pages draft constitution.

    One day, and it will come, when CCM is defeated in a humiliating way by forces of a united Opposition in Tanzania and Majimbo is introduced, Tanzanians will wonder why it had not been there from the beginning. However for Kenyans we have reached that crucial crossroad where Nigeria reached and opted for majimbo; where India reached and opted for Majimbo; where Brazil reached and opted for Majimbo; where South Africa reached and opted for Majimbo and where all economies of a certain size must opt for federalism or lose the gains so far made.

    Majimbo is an idea whose time has come in Kenya.
     
  13. Kenyan-Tanzanian

    Kenyan-Tanzanian JF-Expert Member

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    Mzalendo nimesaka hii document ya NEPAD ambaye iliifanyia Kenya Peer Review mwaka jana. Isome especially kijisehemu kinachodili na mambo ya siasa. Hata hawa wakaguzi walikubali siasa za Kenya ni za rangi ya kikabila na coalitions za kikabila. Kabila moja haiwezi kukandamiza zingine huku ikitaka izidi kuungwa mkono kana kwamba hao ni familia ya kifalme.

    http://www.nepad.org/2005/files/aprm/APRMKenyareport.pdf
     
  14. J

    Judy Senior Member

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    Go Raila go n let them see the real agwambo/tinga
     
  15. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Nov 11, 2007
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    Siri ya kufanikiwa sii tu majimbo- ni hard work, discpline in work, uadilifu (less corruption) na good leadership.
    Majimbo should not replace these values!
     
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