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CCM ina Miaka 32 na siyo 50!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kigarama, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Kigarama

    Kigarama JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Oct 23, 2011
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    Kuna jambo linasemwa humu ndani sijui kwa kutiwa chumvi au ni kwa kutokujua. Nchi hii (Tanganyika?) tangu ipate uhuru mwaka 1961 na kufuatiwa na mapinduzi ya Zanzibara mwaka 1964 hatimaye Muungano wa nchi hizo mbili uliozaa Tanzania imepita miaka 50. Tangayika kulikuwa na chama cha TANU na Zanzibar kulikuwa na chama cha ASP.

    Vyama hivi viwili viliungana na kuwa chama kimoja kilichokuja kuitwa CCM hapo tarehe 5/2/1977. Kwa hiyo si sahihi kusema kwamba CCM ina miaka 50 madarakani kwani chenyewe kama chama kina miaka 34 tu tangu kuanzishwa kwake, sasa hiyo miaka 50 ya kutawala Tanzania inatoka wapi? Maana hata Tanzania yenyewe kama nchi ina miaka 47 sasa hiyo 50 ya CCM inatoka wapi?

    Kuna watu wanadai kwamba hili limetokana na miaka ya CCM kuhesabiwa tangu enzi za TANU. Hoja hii huwa inanishangaza sana kwani ni lini tumeanza kuhesabu umri wa mtoto kwa kuchanganya na ule wa wazazi wake!! Nimeileta hoja hii kwani inatumiwa sana na wanasiasa wetu bila kujua kwamba wakija CCM wanakanusha kwamba chama chao hakina miaka 50 na badala yake kina miaka 34 tu. CCM huanza kwa kutumia hoja hiyo ya tofauti ya miaka kujenga hoja kwamba wapinzani ni waongo.
     
  2. BONGE BONGE

    BONGE BONGE JF-Expert Member

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    sure, it iz
     
  3. Bigirita

    Bigirita JF-Expert Member

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    Sijaelewa unataka kusema kitu gani exactly!
     
  4. Songambele

    Songambele JF-Expert Member

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    Mbombo jilipo, mnasoma sana mwishowe kila jambo gumu kwenu.
    Manake hata tanzania haina miaka 50 na tanganyika haikufika miaka 5 ikafa. Yaani sijui tunasherekea nini.
    Mie napita tu!
     
  5. Zak Malang

    Zak Malang JF-Expert Member

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    Magamba yamedumu miaka 50! Mie kwa mfano nilizaliwa 1964, lakini mwaka 1996 nilibadilisha jina kwa lawyer kutokana na sababu zangu. Lakini hata baada ya kubadili jina nilikuwa ni mimi yule yule.

    By the way kama unazungumzia kubadilisha jina kutoka TANU na kuwa CCM mwaka 1977, basi ni miaka 34 sasa, na siyo 32!
     
  6. W

    Welu JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 23, 2011
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    Kwani ccm ilisajiliwa lini? Je viongozi wake walibadilishwa kwa wakati huo? Basi waambie waache kusema ccm chama kikongwe na kimeleta uhuru wa nchi hii.
     
  7. dudus

    dudus JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Oct 23, 2011
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    Exactly Bro! Mijitu ikisimama majukwaani kazi yao ni kujisifia kuleta uhuru wa nchi hii na "maendeleo" lukuki yaliyopo lakini wakati huo huo kwa makusudi hawataki chama chao kihusishwe na kukwama kwa mambo mengi nchini. Je, tukisema umasikini uliotia kambi ya kudumu nchini umeletwa na CCM tutakuwa tunakosea?

    Tukirudi kwenye hoja ya msingi ya mleta mada kwamba CCM ina miaka 32 na sio 50; suppose tumekubali kwamba ina miaka 32 (tena madarakani) then what? Kwamba ni michache sana hivyo ipewe muda zaidi au? Sijaelewa mantiki hasa ya hoja yenyewe.
     
  8. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa mtazamo wa wenye vision fupi wanapata picha hiyo kama ulivyoeleza, lakini ukweli si huo. CCM ni TANU iliyoanzishwa miaka 56 iliyopita na mwasisi yule yule Nyerere. Sababu za TANU kubadili jina na kuitwa CCM ni kutokana mfumo wa samaki mkubwa kummeza mdogo, yaani Afro-Shiraji ilimezwa ndani ya TANU, ili kuwahadaa watu wa Visiwani kwamba chama kipya kimeanzishwa CCM, na janja ya Nyerere kuingiza jina la mapinduzi kutokana na jina la serikali ya mapinduzi Zanzibar.

    Walioanzisha TANU na Afro-Shirazi na kisha kubadilisha jina kuwa CCM ni wale wale na ni serikali ile ile. Ni sawa kama
    Counterpunch comment # 5 alivyosema hapo juu kwamba mtu kwenda kwa Lawyer kubadili jina kwa sababu fulani hakumbadilishi mtu, ila ni jina tu limebadilika lakini mtu anabaki yule yule.
     
  9. dudus

    dudus JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi sio mtaalam wa masuala ya katiba ila hapo kwenye red; Sidhani NCHI ambayo leo hii eneo lake linaitwa TANZANIA ina miaka 50/47 tu! Usahihi ni kwamba NCHI hii imekuwapo tangu mwanzo wa nyakati; tangu hata mwanadamu kuumbwa nchi hii imekuwepo. Hata historia inatuambia mwanadamu wa kwanza aliishi eneo ambalo leo linaitwa Tanzania? Falme, tawala, na hata vyama vitakuja na kupita, majina ya eneo hili (Tanzania) yatakuja na kupita; lakini nchi hii itadumu. Tunachosherehekea leo hii ni "kuzaliwa" kwa DOLA ya Tanzania na sio NCHI ya Tanzania.

    Turudi kwenye mada: Kwanza nashanga kama sio kusikitika kwa CCM kukana na hata kuanza kuwaita "wapinzani waongo" kisa tu wapinzani wamesema CCM imetawala kwa miaka 50! CCM ni "UZAO" wa TANU na ASP ambavyo vimekuwapo tangu hata kabla ya uhuru (yaani tangu kabla ya dola ya Tanganyika na Zanzibar na hatimaye Tanzania kuwepo). Kisheria, CCM ndio "mrithi" rasmi (legal successor) wa TANU na ASP na mikoba yote ya vyama hivyo ilibebwa na CCM.

    Sidhani kama wapinzani wanachoangalia ni JINA kwa maana ya CCM bali majukumu. Hata kama walivurunda baadaye, lakini CCM ndiyo iliyobeba majukumu ya TANU na ASP na kimsingi ni punguani tu atakayekana kwamba CCM inawajibika kwa yote yaliyotokea nchini tangu uhuru. Mbona CCM inahodhi vitegauchumi vingi vilivyoanzishwa kabla ya kuanzishwa kwake (1977) lakini hilo hawalikani?

    Well, hebu tupunguze makali kidogo tukubaliane kwamba CCM ina umri wa miaka 32 kama wanavyotaka wao; Je, hii ina unafuu gani kwao? To me it is even worse!
     
  10. Kigarama

    Kigarama JF-Expert Member

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    You are the great thinker! Mimi hoja yangu kama kweli tunataka kujenga taifa la watu wanaofikiri kwa makini basi ni lazima sisi kwanza tufikiri kwa makini. Tanganyika ilikufa mwaka 1964 kwa kuungana na Zanzibar lakini Zanzibar haikufa. Kwa hiyo hata ile miaka Hamsini tutakayosheherekea mwaka huu sijui ni ya nini hasa!!

    CCM si kwamba TANU ilibadili jina na kujiita CCM kwani kwa wale wenye akili (wasiopenda kujichetua) timamu wanajua kwamba CCM ni zao la kuungana kwa ASP na TANU na wala si matokeo ya TANU kujibadili jina. kama hali ni hivyo kitendo cha sisi kukubali kwamba CCM ina miaka hamsini ndiko kunakosababisha baadhi ya watu wanaona kwamba CCM ni chama kikongwe.

    Tangu kurudishwa kwa mfumo wa vyama vingi nchini ni miaka 19 imepita, lakini ni wangapi wanajua kwamba ni CCM ya 1977-1992 ndiyo inamiliki viwanja na rasirimali zote ilizozimiliki wakati wa mfumo wa chama kimoja na hii CCM ya 1992-2011 haina haki ya kumiliki vitu hivyo? CCM ya 1977 - 1992 ilikuwa ni chama dola (a state Party) wakati hii ya 1992 - 2011 ni chama cha siasa kama CHADEMA na CUF.
     
  11. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

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    Hata tanu na asp, hakuna kimojawapo kilizaliwa 1961.
     
  12. W

    Welu JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 24, 2011
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    Ndugu fanya unasafiri kwa COASTER (gari) toka Mbeya kwenda uendako. Unafika Iringa unabadili gari na kupanda HAICE. Mkiwa safarini unaulizwa mwenzetu unaulizwa umetokea wapi? Je jibu lake ni Iringa au Mbeya?
     
  13. Kigarama

    Kigarama JF-Expert Member

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    Ukiulizwa Hiace umepandia wapi utajibu nini??
     
  14. Kigarama

    Kigarama JF-Expert Member

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    hata mimi sijasema kwamba TANU au ASP ilizaliwa 1961.
     
  15. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

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    I know...I was trying to support your argument that, CCM was not born in 1961 (It is not 50 years old).
     
  16. Mohamedi Mtoi

    Mohamedi Mtoi R I P

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    Nimependa sana swali chokonozi lililobeba Mantiki. Ukiulizwa Hiace umepandia wapi utajibu nini? Na pia sioni mantiki ya kufananisha Ccm na utaratibu wa kubadilisha majina unao fanywa kisheria. Mtu akibadili majina habadili asili yake (kama ni mweusi atabaki kuwa mweusi, kama ni mweupe atabaki kuwa mweupe).
    Chama kinaweza kubadili mfumo wake wa kiasili kutokana na nyakati (ujamaa hadi ubepari nk) lakini pia kinaweza kuhuisha hata katiba, sera na mifumo yake kutokana na nyakati.
    Na isitoshe kwa sasa ccm ni jumuiko la makundi tofauti yenye maslahi tofauti tofauti.
     
  17. B

    Bobuk JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Oct 24, 2011
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    TANU + ASP = CCM
    CCM was born 5/2/1977
    2011 - 1977 = 34 years
    CCM baba ya yake ni TANU na mama yake ni ASP.
    Therefore CCM ni chama kipya chenye umri wa miaka 34.
    Ugumu uko wapi wa kuelewa Watanzania?
    Vyama vilivyopigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar ni TANU na ASP respectively
    CCM haipo.

    Kuhusu miaka 50 ya uhuru wa Tanzania Bara (Sic). Hata leo ukienda UN nchi iiliyopata uhuru 9/12/1961
    kutoka kwa Waingereza ni Tanganyika. Hakuna mahali popote UN utakuta nchi inaitwa TANZANIA BARA.
    Mwaka 1964 Tangayika na Zanzibar ziliungana na kufanya nchi inayoitwa Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania (JMT).
    Leo hii ukienda UN nchi yenye kiti ni JMT. Muulize hata Asha-Rose Migiro.
    Hili la nchi inaoyoitwa Tanzania bara ni la CCM na TBC1 tu. Mwaka 1961 kulikuwa hakuna nchi inayoitwa
    Tanzania Bara. Kusema tunasherehekea miaka 50 uhuru wa Tanzania Bara ni upotoshwaji mkubwa wa
    historia ya nchi yetu. Kwa Watanzania tulivyo wajinga tunasubiri MZUNGU aje atuandikie historia ya nchi yetu
    ndiyo tuanze kukariri tena kama makasuku, shame on you!
     
  18. Mpui Lyazumbi

    Mpui Lyazumbi JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi napita tu, lakini ni vema na mleta hoja ukalikuleti vizuri miaka ya CCM
     
  19. Mpui Lyazumbi

    Mpui Lyazumbi JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi napita tu, lakini ni vema na mleta hoja ukalikuleti vizuri miaka ya CCM
     
  20. Japhari Shabani (RIP)

    Japhari Shabani (RIP) R I P

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    nani anaweza kunieleza baada ya kuzaliwa kwa tanzania na ccm nini kilibadilika mbali ya majina.hapa tunazungumzia miaka 50 ya utumwa wa ccm samahani uhuru.
     
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