Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Bongo haya yatafika lini?

Discussion in 'Jamii Photos' started by Pape, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Sophist

    Sophist JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Mar 26, 2009
    Messages: 1,574
    Likes Received: 622
    Trophy Points: 280
    What's new/worth astonishing?
     
  3. Ambassador

    Ambassador JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Jun 2, 2008
    Messages: 932
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 35
    Don't you see the car is made of gold?
     
  4. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Messages: 3,445
    Likes Received: 25
    Trophy Points: 135
    A car made of gold would consume so much fuel that the price of the car would be nothing in comparison to the cost of running the car.

    Try to weigh a small gold bar, find it's density or something before exposing your ignorance.
     
  5. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0
    fuel consumption has nothing to do with weight! It has to do with the engine assembly! It has to do with the torque needed to run the engine hence a car! for example; heavy trucks uses diesel intead of gasoline/petrol.
     
  6. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Messages: 3,445
    Likes Received: 25
    Trophy Points: 135
    Don't make me do it cause I overdo it !


    Fuel consumption has nothing to do with weight? For real? What type of crank taught you physics and chemistry?

    Do you even know what is energy, what is mass, the laws of conservation of mass-energy? Work? the fundamentals of Physics? Newtonian mechanics? usitake nijivike ualimu bila kutaka.

    If fuel consumption has "nothing to do with weight" why are engineers struggling to find the toughest material with the lightest weight for fuel economic automotives?

    Hebu ona hapa Green Cars "VW Introduces Fifth Generation Polo; Weight Down, Fuel Consumption Down
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/03/vw-introduces-f.html

    Labda inaweza kukusaidia usiji expose tena kama hivi in the future.

    Eti mtu aandiriki kusema "fuel consumption has nothing to do with weight" angalia ukubwa wa tank la lori kubwa na wa pikipiki tu utaelewa/

    Fuel consumption has nothing to do with weight

    I cant get over that.

    Umempiku mpaka MaxShimba kwa kutoa some of the most ridiculous statements humu JF.
     
  7. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0
    bwana wewe, weight has nothing to do with fuel consumption! we can talk about tourque. also about the green car its all about pollution 'emission', upo? kasome tena! achana na maxshimba....unamuonea tu! pumba ni zangu, we kwann unachungulia thread zangu?
     
  8. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Messages: 3,445
    Likes Received: 25
    Trophy Points: 135
    Let me break it down to you in simple physics.

    1) If you can agree that work is required to move weigh/ mass (I will use mass since it is the more fundamental of the two).

    2) If you can also agree that the more mas one has, the more work will be required to move that mass

    3) If you can equally agree that the more work is required to move the increasing amount of mass, the more energy will be required to increase the amount of work

    If you can read these three premises and agree with each, you have agreed with a demonstration of the direct proportionality of energy, work and mass

    Fundamentally, you need more energy, to produce more work, to move more mass.

    Equally, you can use less energy, to produce less work and move less mass.

    Hizo habari za engine technology, ni innovation za hizi fundamentals.Ni kama hapo nilipokwambia kwamba ma engineers wanajaribu kutafuta materials zilizo tough sana lakini nyepesi ili ku maximize efficiency. Mtu yeyote anayejua basic physics atajua machine haina efficiency 100%.

    Usitake kusema "weight has nothing to do with fuel consumption" kwa kubase kwenye innovation za engine.Innovations za engine haziwezi ku defy fundamental laws za physics tatu hizo nilizokupa hapo juu, zinaweza kusaidia kupunguza makali kwa kiasi fulani tu, lakini kuna point inafikia hata hizo innovation zinachemsha.

    Kama ingekuwa kweli kwamba weight has nothing to do with fuel consumption kwa nini tunahita

    Hebu ona hapa watu wenye shule zao wanavyosema

    "Factor of Two: Halving the Fuel Consumption of New U.S. Automobiles by 2035"


    Particularly angalia "Option #3: Reduce vehicle weight and size pp 15

    Ona chart ya fuel consumption / weight kwenye page 19

    Uitaka kuelewa fundamental scientific experiments lazima ufanye under constant conditions. Sasa tafuta gari moja lenye uzito tani 20, halafu lingine lina uzito wa tani mbili, weka mafuta sawa, lita 50.Halafu endesha yote pamoja ndipo utajua kama weight has nothing to do with fuel consumption or not.

    Au labda huelewi gravity ya maneno "has nothing to do with". One can say that the whistle you may whistle on your car for example, has nothing to do with fuel consumption, but the wight has everything to do with fuel consumption.Now that does not mean to say that the engine cannot be tweaked to offset this.But to say that fuel consumption is all about the engine technology and nothing about the weight is absurd.Mtu akikuuliza hiyo engine ina support nini utajibuje? Si ina support weight ya gari? Na weight ikiongezwa hiyo nyongeza itakuwa na effect gani on energy consumption?

    Just like how you need to feeed more food (fuel) to the horse carrying the heaviest load (weight/mass) you neeed to use more fuel for the heavy mass. This is fundamental phisics.

    Kama unataka kubisha rudi ubishe.
     
  9. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Messages: 11,397
    Likes Received: 186
    Trophy Points: 160
    Bluray,
    Uko sawa mkuu. Swali rahisi ni kwa nini kwenye mlima, gari linatumia mafuta mengi zaidi?

    Na wewe unayebisha, hebu kasome Kinetic Energy na Static Energy? Unafahamu forumula ya Friction inategemea nini? Ina uhusiano gano na hizo Kinetic&Static Energy?

    Mkuu, kama gari limesimama na uzito wake ni mkubwa sana, ina maana linakandamiza sana barabara na hapo ili lianze ku-move, kinetic energy inahitajika kubwa sana ili kuiotoa static energy ambayo inategemea sana na uzito wa gari. Sasa ili hii ifanikiwe, gari inabidi lianze kuchoma mafuta mengi zaidi.

    Kama huyu bwana anachosema ni sawa, basi engine za magari makubwa na madogo, zote zingelikuwa sawa na hii kitu iitwayo HORSE POWER isingelikuwepo duniani. Na anaweza kuwa sawa tu, kama Work ni sawa na Zero yaani no movement. Hapo kweli ukubwa wa Engine hauna maana yoyote. Vinginevyo mkuu, mass, velocity(distance and time) ni factors kubwa sana.

    <DL><DD>[​IMG] </DD></DL>where m is the MASS of the object and v is the object's VELOCITY. W is work which means Work Energy.
     
  10. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0
    Guys,
    Naona Blueray na Sikonge mnaanzisha ubishi, the thing is scientifically we dont account on a so called 'weight' but 'torque', the more weight means more 'torque'.

    Well, why some cars of average weight still consume lots of fuel? why dont we talk of their engine performance? as sikonge said "a car consume more fuel when going up a hill' its true', does this relate to weight or torque? Obvious is 'torque'

    Other factors which contribute to high fuel consumption are "under inflated tires, dirty air filters, bad oxygen sensor, out of date tune up(fuel system tune up) and a hard driving conditions".

    When I say 'torque' I mean 'msukumo', its ok that K.E = 0.5M(V square), but where is this energy comes from? During combustion process; chemical energy is converted to mechanical energy.

    Pressure generated inside the cylinder pushes pistons, pistons are connected to connecting rods, connected rods are mounted on the crank shaft. On the other side the crank shaft is mounted on by a 'fly wheel' which store energy and release the same during 'idle' stroke! Finally power is transmitted to the propeller shaft and to the tyres!

    The more torque needed to move a car from one point to another the more work is to be done by the engine.

    Fuel is consumed in the cylinders during combustion to produce a desired torque when a piston moves from the Top Dead Centre to Bottom Dead Centre (compression stroke), it also depends on the number of cylinders in the engine. The less the torque the less the number the cylinders and vice versa.

    Engine performance (efficiency) also contributes to the high fuel consumption! Its true that automobiles engineers are trying to make lightweight cars to reduce fuel consumption because less torque will be needed to run the cars hence less fuel consumption (economic reasons) and the reduction of CO2, NOx, etc, but where to find these light weight materials? How to dispose them? eg. Nano cars.

    And about the green car; I wanna ask you some questions!! In your opinion; are electric cars green? Why? Don't you think that the problem is being shifted from the tail pipe to the power plants? Which car will you prefer 'electric car or diesel/gasoline car'? Why?

    For your information; I don't argue with you guys! Sorry if any! I wonder if your background is not HKL (no offence).

    In case you need any information kindly please PM.

    Enjoy!


     
  11. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Messages: 3,445
    Likes Received: 25
    Trophy Points: 135
    Umeshindwa kuwa muungwana na kukubali kwamba umeflunk simple phisycs. Zaidi ya hapo una dig a deeper grave kwa kuja na habari ndefu bila kukubali the basics kwamba under constant conditions, energy work and mass are directly proportional.

    Nishakwambia between engine efficiency and mass, which is the fundamental part of this equation, ubishi tu sasa unaanza ku shift discussion into what is a green car bila hata ya kujibu maswali fundamental uliyoulizwa hapa.

    Kubali hilo kwanza kabla ya lengthy discourses on torque and all that fancy footwork with no goal.

    Ningekuelewa ungesema "weight is not everything when it comes to fuel consumption, there is also engine design and efficiency" which is totally different from "weight has nothing to do with fuel consumption" inaonekana either hujui physics or hujui Kiingereza.I suspect there is a high chance pia hujui vyote viwili.

    Unakimbia mawe hapa halafu unasingizia kulala?
     
  12. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0
    Anyway, thanks! I appreciate you. Kumbe wewe ni Mr. Politician. Ndio tatizo letu wabongo, siasa na maendeleo wapi na wapi? We endelea kuosha kinywa. Unabaki na 'so called basic physics' wakati watu tunapeta na 'innovation', kwa mtazamo huu hatutoendelea ng'o!
     
  13. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Nov 19, 2009
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Messages: 3,445
    Likes Received: 25
    Trophy Points: 135
    See, hujalala wala nini, unakimbia mawe tu.

    Innovation, innovation utaiweza wewe? Kabla ya innovation inabidi uelewe the basics, sasa kama proportionality ya energy, work and mass inakushinda kuielewa, au huna uungwana wa kukubali kwamba ulichemsha utaweza innovation kweli wewe?

    Wacha maneno hayo wewe, unataka kuleta innovation ya a fuel efficient engine kwa kusema "weight has nothing to do with fuel consumption"? Ndipo unapoanzia innovation yako hapo?

    Nimekupa mpaka link yenye ma charts ya relationship ya weight na fuel consumption, ubishi tu, unaleta mambo ya torque wakati hata torque yenyewe ni function ya mass.Unajiaibisha tu, bora ukalale kweli sasa.

    Unafurahisha kweli wewe.
     
  14. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Messages: 11,397
    Likes Received: 186
    Trophy Points: 160
    Mkuu,
    Kaka yangu ni Fundi Mchundo wa magari. Alikuwa akirudi likizo, alikuwa akinipa shule hadi ninaielewa hasa. Mie nilipokuja kufanya Fizikia, nilipitia pia hayo mambo ya P, T,and V.

    Unafahamu nilipokuwa secondary, nilikuwa nikisikia mahesabu ya Integrations na kuona ile alama ya S, sikuwa ninaelewa kuwa ni SUM of. Kwamba hata vitu kama hizi Processor, RAM, HDs etc ni kwamba party zake zote ziko INTEGTARED na wewe unachukua tu na kubandika kwenye mother board.

    Hayo ndiyo matatizo ya kutokufahamu BASIC ya mambo. Mkuu unaonekana ENGINE unafahamu inafanya kazi vipi ila MSINGI wake HUNA. Katika mambo ya Structure design, kama majengo, daraja, tunels etc, huwa tunaanza kwa kuweka mahesabu ya weight yote itakayotakiwa kubebwa na beams, then colums and last Foundations. Ukishapata Total loads unaanza kudesign sasa party zote za hilo jengo. Ukimaliza unakuja kumalizia foundation za jengo na hapo unaangalia je UDONGO w sehemu hiyo utaweza kuhimili uzito wa jengo? Kama hapana, inabidi kuboresha udogo au kujenga PILES foundations.

    Sasa kwa kutumia mfano hapo juu, mwenzetu naona unadesign kwanza UDONGO wa chini ya nyumba, na baadaye msingi na mwisho unamalizia columns na beams. Mungu bariki umesomea magari maana ungelisomea UJENZI, ungeliuwa watu kwenye majengo yako yote.

    Mass na Velocity ndiyo basic ya GARI lolote lile. Ukishapata uzito wa gari fulani utakuwa huu, na litakwenda kwa speed fulani, ndiyo unakuja kwenye kuamua ukubwa wa Engine uwe wa kiasi gani. Hapa hiyo torque yako ni vitu vya ndani sana na vya baadaye kwenye designing. Ukishapa hizo data, ni kama kwenye ujenzi, unakuja sasa kutumia kuangalia huu uhusiano wa Pressure, Temp and Volume ([FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]pV = [​IMG]RT) ambazo zinakuja kuleta hizo torque yako.[/FONT]

    Unajua faida ya kujua BASIC ya mambo ni nzuri sana. Zamani na nafikiri hadi sasa vijijini, unakuta mashine ya kusaga unga ina gurudumu moja kubwa sana linazunguka. Mwanzo sikujua lina faida gani hadi kaka yangu akaniambia linasaidia kutunza speed iwe constant ya uchomaji mafuta kwenye pistons za engine. Hivi karibuni watu wamelikumbuka tena hilo gurudumu na wameanza kuliweka tena kwenye engine za FORMULA 1. Mwanzo niliposikia KERS, sikufahamu wanamaana gani. Hadi nilipoamua kuitafuta na kukuta kumbe ni gurudumu lilelile linatunza Energy na jamaa akikata kona, hizo torque zinarudishwa kwenye magurudumu na gari linaongeza speed kwa kasi sana (Kinetic Energy Recovery System).

    Sababu zinazosababisha kutumia mafuta mengi ni sawa na zipo nyingi hata kuwasha heating kwenye gari au kuwasha AC, kutembea gari likiwa na madirisha yako wazi. Pia kama ndege, kuna speed fulani ukiipita, unaanza kujenga wind resistance kuwa sana sana ambayo ukipunguza haiwi kubwa kiasi hicho. Ndiyo maana akina Bugatti Veyron wanakula sana mafuta wanapokwenda 300 na kitu per hrs. Kumbuka pia muundo wa gari yaani AERODYNAMIC inaongeza utumiaji mafuta (Coanda Effect)..............

    Definition of TORQUE: (moment of force) is the tendency of a force to rotate an object about an axis,fulcrum, or pivot. Just as a force is a push or a pull, a torque can be thought of as a twist. Torque has dimensions of force times distace.
    [​IMG] , Where E is the energy, &#964; is magnitude of the torque, and &#952; is the angle moved (in radians).
    Hii ni sawa kabisa na ile formular ya WORK niliweka ambayo ndiyo BASIC ya vitu vyote kijana MBISHI. Kubali tu ulichemsha na sisi tumeamua kula na wewe sahani moja. Umebanwa kama mjusi kwenye mlango hihihiiiiiiiiihiiiiiii :) AU hujui kuwa tofauti ya MASS na Force ni moja tu kwamba MASS tuna-consider gravitation force (Newtons)??


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG][/FONT]
     
  15. Pengo

    Pengo JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Messages: 581
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Somo la leo limenikumbusha miaka ya 80 nikiwa ....Jamani nimeburudika sana kwani humu kuna watu wajuzi wa mambo haswa,endeleeni kutupa uhondo.Mwaisho nawapongeza wote mliochangia mdahalo huu kwa hakika mmeleta mapinduzi,sasa tujitahidi kujenga Tanzania yetu na tuache majungu.Mungu ibariki Tanzania Mungu ibariki JF
     
  16. N

    NEMA Member

    #16
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Jun 22, 2009
    Messages: 16
    Likes Received: 0
    Trophy Points: 0
    Jee kuna ukweli kuwa hiyo gari ni made out of gold? Nadhani imepigwa rangi ya gold tu...
     
  17. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0

    Asante!
     
  18. Limbani

    Limbani JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Messages: 1,394
    Likes Received: 31
    Trophy Points: 145
    Bora mkuu umekubali yaishe, lakn mjadala umekuwa mzuri tumepata shule nzuri ya physics
     
  19. Pape

    Pape JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Messages: 5,536
    Likes Received: 13
    Trophy Points: 0
    nimeamua kukaa kimya kwasababu hawa jamaa (Bluray na Sikonge) wenyewe bado wapo katika 'basics' hawataki kupiga stepu mbele! wanang'ang'ania hapo! na mimi naongelea 'maendeleo' kamwe hatuto elewana! najua 'basics' zipo lakini dunia ya sasa kwanini tung'ang'anie 'basics' wakati wenzetu wanasonga mbele? unajua watu wengi hasa wabongo wanapenda 'kumeza' mambo yaliyoandikwa miaka hiyo! sio vibaya ila 'twendeni' na wakati!
     
  20. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Nov 20, 2009
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Messages: 11,397
    Likes Received: 186
    Trophy Points: 160
    Pape,

    Kwa nini ukae kimya? Mbona tumekuja kwenye hiyo torque yako na tumekuthibitishia kuwa Torque(times Radian)=Work=Energy. Energy ni jina BASIC. Ukifahamu nini maana ya ENERGY, hutabisha tena kuwa tunaongelea kitu kilekile bila ya wewe mwenzetu kufahamu. Maadamu kwenye torque kuna force, basi MASS ni factor kubwa sana katika hili maana gravitation force iko constant. Kingine ni hiyo distance na kwa sababu kitu kinazungukua katika axis, basi angle yake ambayo inabidi uiweke kwenye RADIAN nayo inakuja kuwa muhimu sana. Umeelewa kijana wa Torque?

    [​IMG]

    Nilipokuandikia ile formula ya E naona hukuelewa maana zake. Kumbuka pia kwamba kama hapo juu, radius nayo ina umuhimu sana. Ndiyo maana unaona kuwa [​IMG] ikiwa inatafasiriwa na radius pamoja na Force.

    Ngoja nikuonyeshe maana ya Torque na uhusiano wake na Force (Mass x Acc.) na labda baada ya hapa utaelewa nini maana yake.......

    [ame]http://www.5min.com/Video/What-is-Torque-174069119[/ame]
     
Loading...