Beregu v Kinana - Hivi kweli tunategemea kambi ya upinzani?

Upupu wa kwanza wa Kiranga

CHADEMA's policy of free education for all ( or at least non-need based full grants) is hardly practical, highly uneconomic and mostly an unfair attempt at statist largesse

Dudu la pili la Kiranga

If a party can nominate someone who can easily be bought, I don't have confidence with that party's maturity and vetting process.

Kioja kingine cha tatu cha Kiranga

The CHADEMA Kilombero constituency candidate is on record saying one does not need anything special to be MP

Uzandiki wa 4 wa kiranga,ona anavyojichanganya

And while I do not outright oppose party switching, I would want at least a vetting and indoctrination period

Upupu wa tano wa kiranga

There are already reports of certain sects of the workers movements announcing it's alienation from Slaa/ CHADEMA in what is perceived as Slaa's move to block their chances.

Kibweka cha 6 cha Kiranga;anajaribu hata kuzipinga tafiti za kitaalam

On the question of a "level playing field" Prof. Baregu fails to make a coherent case. State media news outlet just started giving a fair share of airtime to opposition parties

Kituko cha 7 cha Kiranga;sasa anamdhalilisha Prof Baregu

If this learned star has this mindset I shudder to think what the number of semi-literate candidates will think

Mwisho Kiranga akajitetea hivi

(and I am not a Kikwete fan)









Calling the sun a moon does not make it so, you must tell us the reasoning. I gave mine, you did not give one !
 
Wewe ni mpambe wa mafisadi wa ccm na sasa umezidi kujifunua jinsi ulivyo

Watu mnakuja na blanket statements, nionyeshe wapi nimekuwa mpambe tuelezane vizuri.

Mna validate claims za CCM kwamba upinzani ni watu wa kulialia tu, mbona CCM nimewabonda sana tu na siwasikii kuja kusema mimi ni mpambe wa CHADEMA ?

CHADEMA haiwezi kuwa treated with kid gloves just because it is in the opposition, we have had a multy party system for 18 years now so it is of age. Kama mtoto anaweza kuoa au kuolewa. Msitake kudekezwa mtakuwa tegemezi maisha yote.
 
Kiranga ni mwanaccm na mpenzi mkubwa sana wa Kikwete. Angalia hata hapo juu, amepondea chadema mara tatu ya alivyojaribu kuisema ccm. Uzuri ni kwamba watu wengi wameshamshtukia

Nilishasema hapa, nategemea mengi mapya kutoka CHADEMA kuliko kutoka CCM,CCM imekuwa na muda mwingi sana katika power na ishapata nafasi nyingi za kututoa katika umasikini, imeshindwa kwa kiasi kikubwa.

Sasa kwa kuwa nategemea mengi kutoka CHADEMA na upinzani, ni haki kuchunguza upinzani zaidi, ni wajibu kukipa pressure zaidi ili kiimarike zaidi. Ningetegemea CCM walalmike kwamba ninatumia muda mwingi kukichambua CHADEMA, nisipokichambua sana CCM maana yake sikipendi sana na wala sitegemei mengi ya ajabu kutoka kwake.

Tatizo ni kwamba baada ya ahadi kubwa ya mabadiliko CHADEMA inajionyesha kwamba bado haipo tayari kwa prime time, hata ukiangalia mabango ya uchaguzi tu unaona hilo.

I would rather discuss the issues, based on the piece above and the Buregu / Kinana exchange, mmesikiliza na kusoma au mnakuja kusagia tu ?
 
Watu mnakuja na blanket statements, nionyeshe wapi nimekuwa mpambe tuelezane vizuri.

Mna validate claims za CCM kwamba upinzani ni watu wa kulialia tu, mbona CCM nimewabonda sana tu na siwasikii kuja kusema mimi ni mpambe wa CHADEMA ?

Acha uongo wewe hujawahi kuwabonda ccm

CHADEMA haiwezi kuwa treated with kid gloves just because it is in the opposition, we have had a multy party system for 18 years now so it is of age. Kama mtoto anaweza kuoa au kuolewa. Msitake kudekezwa mtakuwa tegemezi maisha yote.

Hakuna anayetaka kuwa treated na kid gloves hapa, kuna wanaccm kibao hapa (kibunango, kasheshe, etc) wanaiponda chadema na hakuna anayewazuia. Kinachowekwa hapa ni kukuanika unafiki wako kuwa wewe ni fisadi wa ccm kama wenzako tu
 
Nilishasema hapa, nategemea mengi mapya kutoka CHADEMA kuliko kutoka CCM,CCM imekuwa na muda mwingi sana katika power na ishapata nafasi nyingi za kututoa katika umasikini, imeshindwa kwa kiasi kikubwa.

Sasa kwa kuwa nategemea mengi kutoka CHADEMA na upinzani, ni haki kuchunguza upinzani zaidi, ni wajibu kukipa pressure zaidi ili kiimarike zaidi. Ningetegemea CCM walalmike kwamba ninatumia muda mwingi kukichambua CHADEMA, nisipokichambua sana CCM maana yake sikipendi sana na wala sitegemei mengi ya ajabu kutoka kwake.

Tatizo ni kwamba baada ya ahadi kubwa ya mabadiliko CHADEMA inajionyesha kwamba bado haipo tayari kwa prime time, hata ukiangalia mabango ya uchaguzi tu unaona hilo.

I would rather discuss the issues, based on the piece above and the Buregu / Kinana exchange, mmesikiliza na kusoma au mnakuja kusagia tu ?

Kubali tu ukweli kuwa wewe ni fisadi wa ccm na unawafanyia kazi hapa na ukweli utakuweka huru.
 
Nadhani tunakosea kutegemea wapinzani peke yao watuletee mabadiliko. Mimi naamini kila mtu anao wajibu. Nawaheshimu akina Baregu, Lissu, Slaa, Mbowe ambao wamejiweka mstari wa mbele katika harakati hizi. Badala ya kuwabeza tujiulize tufanye nini tuwasaidie. Samora Machel alianza na wapiganaji wachache ambao tunaweza kuwaita rag tag. Lakini pole pole walijenga harakati hatimaye Msumbiji ikawa huru. Let us give our support and ideas to those who are on the frontline of change in Tanzania.

asante jasusi kwa maelezo yako yenye shibe
 
Baada ya madongo naona umeanza kusoma sasa, lakini hujaweza kuja na critique.

Rudi shule kwanza ujifunze kwamba i'm not JK fan is bungled English.

Sasa wewe huwezi kuandika sentensi ya maneno sita kwa kiingereza, kweli tukutegemee uelewe hilo pande hapo juu na ma concepts ya equanimity, walking the thin line of objectivity? Wewe si utataka barbarism ya "if you are not with us you are with the enemy" wewe ?

Ndiyo maana nasema kazi kubwa.

Kazi kweli kweli kwa baadhi ya Great Thinkers wenye mawazo chanya kama Kiranga
 
Kwa bahati nzuri au mbaya wewe si moderator na huwezi kufanya censorship hapa.

Haya ndiyo mageuzi unayotaka kuleta? Mtu yeyote ambaye hupendi mawazo yake unataka kumnyamazisha kwa nguvu? Vipi kuhusu kulumbana kwa hoja ? Au huna hoja na huwezi kujieleza unategemea kufungia watu, kufungia watu nako huwezi kwa sababu sio mod, basi tabu tupu.

Watu wanataka double standards, standard moja kwao, nyingine kwa wapinzani wao. Mimi nakataa upuuzi huu.

Ukitaka standards za juu dhidi ya mpinzani wako, ni lazima na wewe ukubali kupitia standards hizo hizo. Hatutaki habari za mapenzi na ushabiki, kama wewe ni CCM au upinzani hatujali, tunachotaka ni kutumia wembe ule ule kuchana kote kuwili.

Najua nitajenga maadui pande zote kwa kusema hivi, lakini watu wanaopenda principles wataona mtu unaposimamia principles na kukataa kupinda eti kwa sababu unayemuongelea ni fulani.
Kiranga,
You are a dead hypocrite; that is what we call ranting! For the sake of what? I don't see any point holding water; in politics we say that is "PUMPING STEAM ON SOMEONE ASS".

You are not fare to take on opposition and the ruling part on the same level, in terms of resources it is a sea (ocean) and a stream. CCM have billions if not trillions to use for elections. They have all assets we built together during the single party system. They have taken all. They are using government resources, the first lady is using a government asset (plane) to compaign for her husband. What about opposition? They have done well so far. They have nothing in terms of resources. CCM is a democracy killer.

You're also very wrong to compare Kinana Vs Baregu; you 'd better compare Kikwete Vs Dr Slaa. What I see from all speeches Mr. Kikwete reads what is written by somebody else and never knows what he reads. He contradicts himself from one speech to the other. Slaa makes points, and he goes with pulses and rythm from the CCM; he never exaggerates. What is appalling and biasing, you are failing to point that, the failure of of Mr. kikwete to attend debate (Mdahalo) is because he is not capable of making ponts (Kichwa-maji). He can't stand opposition; he is the worst president we had.

On the question of free education and medicals; this is mostly economical; it depends on the way you think about the Tanzania economy. For your informationTanzania resources are either wasted or underutilized. Since independence in 1961, Tanzania depended its revenue from taxing cigarrettes and beers etc etc; tax collection is very poor. That is an old system; which is decades old. Mr. Slaa will come with an export oriented economy, investors friendly whereby both investors and hosts will benefit. In the world where have you seen a power utitlity company or water company going broke? Only in Tanzania. There are many avenues to tape, and there will be a lot more which I can't tell you here.

On the question of rejects going to Chadema; that is your grave mistakenly idea; Kinana will be the last on to be a reject. Dr Slaa started in Dar Es Salaam, went to Arusha Mwanza and Mara; what you are seeing now even in the media is just a drop in the ocean. The big mouths are beeing shut. When Dr. Slaa touches Mbeya is when you 'll see big wigs comig up for the support of DR Slaa endorsing him. It is going to be a massive movement. When he arrives Iringa Mr. Kikwete will surrender. It is the question of time! You 'll call all these guys and gals rejects?
 

Hizi unazilinganisha na zipi?
Linganisha hizi ambazo umeongea kinafiki tu kuhusu ccm na zile ambazo umeongea dhidi ya ccm
je ni 50/50?

Wewe una mabandiko karibu 4000, na unaleta mabandiko 8 tu ya kuipondea ccm
Peleka unafiki wako kule lumumba na sio hapa kwa great thinkers
 
Hakuna anayetaka kuwa treated na kid gloves hapa, kuna wanaccm kibao hapa (kibunango, kasheshe, etc) wanaiponda chadema na hakuna anayewazuia. Kinachowekwa hapa ni kukuanika unafiki wako kuwa wewe ni fisadi wa ccm kama wenzako tu

Solomon;

Hiyo ndiyo ilikuwa maana yangu;wana JF kama vile Maralia Sugu na Kibunango wamejijengea heshima hapa kwa uimara wao wa kuitetea CCM na sera zake;tofauti na Kiranga au Maggid Mjengwa ambao wanajifanya kama wapo balanced ili hali ukisema maandiko yao huwezi tumia hata nusu dakika kujua standings zao!

Tofauti yangu na Kiranga imejikita hapo tu kwa kutokuwa mkweli kama yeye ni CCM damu damu!
 
Solomon;

Hiyo ndiyo ilikuwa maana yangu;wana JF kama vile Maralia Sugu na Kibunango wamejijengea heshima hapa kwa uimara wao wa kuitetea CCM na sera zake;tofauti na Kiranga au Maggid Mjengwa ambao wanajifanya kama wapo balanced ili hali ukisema maandiko yao huwezi tumia hata nusu dakika kujua standings zao!

Tofauti yangu na Kiranga imejikita hapo tu kwa kutokuwa mkweli kama yeye ni CCM damu damu!

Kiranga yeye anataka tu kuweka vilio vyake hapa (kama kawaida yake) ili ionekane kuwa hakuna anayetaka Slaa au chadema waguswe. Kama ulivyosema, kuna wanaccm kibao hapa wanawabonda chadema na hakuna aliyesema kuwa waache. Tofauti yao ni kiranga ni kuwa, hao wanaccm wako proud na utetezi wao kwa ccm.

Kiranga yeye anataka apate love toka pande zote mbili - Kwa wapiganaji na kwa mafisadi. Ukweli wa watanzania wa leo (hasa wana JF) ni kuwa wengi wao hawapendi wanafiki. Kiranga anakunywa dawa aliyoikoroga mwenyewe.

Mimi sitamuacha mpaka akiri upenzi wake kwa mafisadi au akome kudanganya watu vinginevyo.
 
Kiranga,
You are a dead hypocrite;

Dead hypocrites cannot write

that is what we call ranting!

I equate ranting with making big libelious claim without sufficient supporting evidence

For the sake of what? I don't see any point holding water;

It is possible you do not see the connection you want to see because it is not there.

in politics we say that is "PUMPING STEAM ON SOMEONE ASS".

I call this unnecessary profanity, which tells me someone is frustrated and does not know how to express himself.

You are not fare to

I can never be "fare", I am a person. Fare is what you pay for the service of transportation, did you mean fair perhaps ? Do you really know what yopu are

talking about ? How can I expect you to understand the concepts you claim to put forward when you cannot even articulate yourself in passable language ?

take on opposition and the ruling part on the same level,

The level of development I expect from each of them is the same, so I see no need to have double standards in their examination.

in terms of resources it is a sea (ocean) and a stream.

The opposition does not think so, that is why it is contesting the leadership of this country.

CCM have billions if not trillions to use for elections. They have all assets we built together during the single party system. They have taken all. They

are using government resources, the first lady is using a government asset (plane) to compaign for his husband. What about opposition? They have done well

so far. They have nothing in terms of resources. CCM is a democracy killer.

The opposition had all the chance in the last 5 years to raise these issues and did not do so, I am not going to have sympathy to a team that is not ready just

because they are in the opposition.

You're also very wrong to compare Kinana Vs Baregu; you 'd better compare Kikwete Vs Dr Slaa.

Do you even understand that this thread is based on an interview that involved Kinana and Baregu? Do you understand that that is what is being discussed

here? That to make sense of the analysis you actually have to listen to the Baregu vs Kinana exchanges? It does not seem so to me.

What I see from all speeches Mr. Kikwete reads what is written by somebody else and never knows what he reads.

This is not about speech reading contest, if you think so you are greatly mistaken.

He contradicts himself from one speech to the other.

You would do us a great service by starting a thread on this and make a detailed documentation of this. I mentioned before that I am not a Kikwete fan, I may

be able to help you on that as I do not liuke the colloquism displayed by Kikwete.

Slaa makes points, and he goes with pulses and rythm from the CCM;

Seriously ? Pulse and rhythm? Is he also in some CHADEMA band ? Maybe the John Komba of CHADEMA? Are you so superficial so to be impressed by "pulses

and rhythm" ?

he never exaggerates

Except when he is introducing another mans wife as his wife perhaps?

What is appalling and biasing, you are failing to point that, the failure of of Mr. kikwete to attend debate (Mdahalo) is because he is not capable of making ponts (Kichwa-maji). He can't stand opposition; he is the worst president we had.

Dude, did you actually read the piece above? Do you know how to read? Did you not see how I scolded CCM for censorship and obfuscation ?

At the risk of coming off conceited, I quote myself here.Do you know how to read? Can you read this and understand it?

Prof. Baregu went on to talk about the sad cowardice acts of CCM censoring it's candidates. This is pure and simple censorship, however spinned. It looks like either CCM doesn't have much of a record to defend, or is not very confident of it's candidates ability to champion that record, possibly even both. A prominent up and coming CCM cadre was quoted as endorsing this move as " good politics" meaning politics in the negative sense of obfuscation and Machiavellian manipulations. According to him the country is poor, CCM does not have much to show for all it's years in power, a lot of the promises made in 2005 are still unrealized, so it makes sense to refrain from debates. And this guy is one of the rising stars.To him political expediency comes prior to accountability to the people and transparency. If this learned star has this mindset I shudder to think what the number of semi-literate candidates will think. They are probably breathing a sigh of relief and thanking the party bigwigs for not exposing their incompetency. This is not a good look for CCM at all. And all the obfuscation Kinana gave, about the president and CCM candidates needing to go to the people are so transparent, I can see clearly through them. Is CCM this much anti-press, anti-intellectuals and anti-transparency ? What does it fear? Kinana couldn't answer this on the issues and resorted to obfuscation and fluff.

On the question of free education and medicals; this is mostly economical; it depends on the way you think about the Tanzania economy. For your

informationTanzania resources are either wasted or underutilized.

And this is why I do not want to waste any more resources by giving Rostam Aziz's and his ilk's children a free ride.Together with all the people further down that food chain, but who can afford tuition.

Since independence in 1961, Tanzania depended its revenue from taxing cigarrettes and beers

etc etc; tax collection is very poor. That is an old system; which is decades old. Mr. Slaa will come with an export oriented economy, investors friendly whereby

both investors and hosts will benefit.

You are describing the old economy.Nyerere used to wake up early in the morning - sometimes hardly sleeping a lick according to his bodyguards- following the prices of our agro-exports on the BBC. We cannot rely on an export based economy for very long. These resources are diminishing in value (real terms). I expected the opposition to talk about an export/ natural resources based economy, but also a great emphasis on a knowledge economy. I do not see this. We are stuck in the past. The opposition claims to come with serious changes to our governance and economy, but I do not see anything that is much of a difference.

In the world where have you seen a power utitlity company or water company going bloke?

Going bloke ? Seriously? Why don't you stick to Swahili dude? Where did I say I was a CCM fan ?

Only in Tanzania. There are many avenues to tape,

Dude, seriously ? Many avenue to tape? You don't want to go digital ? Still on tape?

and there will be a lot more which I can't tell you here

For real ? I am shocked Mr. Spook

On the question of rejects going to Chadema; that is your grave mistakenly idea;

CHADEMA is mourning one parliamentary seat already because of this fiasco. Is that my "grave mistakenly idea"?

Kinana will be the last on to be a reject.

Last on to be a reject? What are you saying here?

Dr Slaa started in Dar Es Salaam, went to Arusha Mwanza and Mara; what you are seeing now even in the media is just a drop in the ocean. The big mouths are beeing shut. When Dr. Slaa touches Mbeya is when you 'll see big wigs comig up for the support of DR Slaa endorsing him. It is going to be a massive movement. When he arrives Iringa Mr. Kikwete will surrender. It is the question of time! You 'll call all these guys and gals rejects?

I suggest you take some language lessons or write in Swahili.

"It is the question of time" indeed, so why don't you shut up and wait for time to be the revealer ?
 
Hizi unazilinganisha na zipi?
Linganisha hizi ambazo umeongea kinafiki tu kuhusu ccm na zile ambazo umeongea dhidi ya ccm
je ni 50/50?

Wewe una mabandiko karibu 4000, na unaleta mabandiko 8 tu ya kuipondea ccm
Peleka unafiki wako kule lumumba na sio hapa kwa great thinkers

Nimekwambia hizi ni chache tu za karibuni, ukienda nyuma utakuta zaidi.

Nimekuuliza wewe zako za kubondea CHADEMA ili kutuonyesha uko neutral ziko wapi?

Au unaweza kukubali kwamba huna na wewe ni CHADEMA fanboy ?
 
Kenya walianzisha FREE EDUCATION tangu mwaka 2008. Kwanini isiwezekane kwetu? Ukiziba mianya ya wizi wa fedha za serikali, ukapunguza utiriri wa mawaziri, ukafuta kazi za Ukuu wa Mikoa na ukachukua kodi za makampuni ya madini utapata fedha za kutoa ELIMU bure.

Tumepata taarifa kwamba wizi wa fedha za serikali mwaka uliopita ni zaidi ya 700bn/=. Hizo tayari ni zaidi ya nusu ya bajeti ya Elimu.

Ukipunguza mawaziri toka 61 hadi 20, ukafuta ma RC utaponya kiasi gani? Ni fedha nyingi sana.

Kiranga anataka CHADEMA waseme kama watu wenye serikali. Unataka waseme wamefanya nini kwenye Elimu? Hawajaanza kutawala bado.
 
Kenya walianzisha FREE EDUCATION tangu mwaka 2008. Kwanini isiwezekane kwetu? Ukiziba mianya ya wizi wa fedha za serikali, ukapunguza utiriri wa mawaziri, ukafuta kazi za Ukuu wa Mikoa na ukachukua kodi za makampuni ya madini utapata fedha za kutoa ELIMU bure.

Tumepata taarifa kwamba wizi wa fedha za serikali mwaka uliopita ni zaidi ya 700bn/=. Hizo tayari ni zaidi ya nusu ya bajeti ya Elimu.

Ukipunguza mawaziri toka 61 hadi 20, ukafuta ma RC utaponya kiasi gani? Ni fedha nyingi sana.

Kiranga anataka CHADEMA waseme kama watu wenye serikali. Unataka waseme wamefanya nini kwenye Elimu? Hawajaanza kutawala bado.

Elimu bure kwa wote itawapa hata watoto wa mamilionea wanaoweza kujilipia a free ride katika nchi isiyo na resources, hatuwezi kukubali hili. Hiki ndicho nilichosema hapo juu. Umesoma nilichoandika mazee? Sijasema kwamba kuna watu kibao wanahitaji msaada na it's only right wasaidiwe? Nisichotaka ni hii habari ya kutaka kuleta blanket free education without qualification ya need based situation.

Sijasema nataka CHADEMA waseme wamefanya nini katika elimu, nilitaka waseme wangefanya nini vizuri zaidi, hawajasema hilo.
 
I can never be "fare", I am a person. Fare is what you pay for the service of transportation, did you mean fair perhaps ? Do you really know what yopu are talking about ? How can I expect you to understand the concepts you claim to put forward when you cannot even articulate yourself in passable language ?

"Fare" enough. But since when was "Yopu" part of the English vocabulary?
 
"Fare" enough. But since when was "Yopu" part of the English vocabulary?

That is a genuine typographical error, if you have a QWERTY keyboard you will see O comes before P, I must have pressed both O and P instead of O alone while replying to a multitude of posts .

I take it that you lack any substantive input other than this unspirited nitpicking ? I saw a pattern of butchering the English language and advised accordingly, surely you do not want to pass a chance to exchange views on the issues for a typo now, do you ?
 
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