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Balozi huyu Mpotoshaji!!

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Pope, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. Pope

    Pope Senior Member

    #1
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    BALOZI wa Uholanzi nchini, Bw. Karel van Kesteren, amewataka Watanzania kuachana na dhana kwamba watachimba utajiri kutoka ardhini kupitia sekta ya madini.

    Akizungumza kwenye ufunguzi wa kongamano la mwaka la wasomi na watafiti nchini lililoandaliwa na Taasisi ya Utafiti na Tathmini ya Sera za Kuondoa Umasikini (REPOA), Dar es Salaam jana, Balozi huyo alisema dhana ya uchumi bora kutokana na maliasili ni potofu na iliyopitwa na wakati.

    "Nadhani midahalo inayoendelea juu ya sekta ya madini, imetawaliwa na dhana potofu, kwamba mtachimba utajiri kutoka ardhini, badala ya kutengeneza utajiri," alisema Balozi huyo.

    Alitoa mfano wa nchi za Ulaya kama Ayalandi, Uswisi na Ufini na nchi ya Morisi, Afrika, ambazo hazikuwa na maliasili ya aina yoyote, lakini kwa kupitia dhana ya kutengeneza utajiri walipata mafanikio.
    Majira 3.4.2008
    **************************************

    Kimsingi sikubaliani na hoja hii kwani Nchi zinatofautiana kutokana na mtaji walionao, Kuna nchi hazina madini lakini wamewekeza kwenye Viwanda, Kilimo au hata Elimu.
    Sekta ya madini ikitumiwa vizuri inaweza kuwa chachu ya Maendeleo kwani kama kampuni za uchimbaji zikijenga Mabarabara ni wazi kuwa wakulima wataweza kufikiwa na Pembejeo na usafirishaji wa mazao yao kufika mjini ni rahisi zaidi na hii itaongeza Productivity kati ya watanzania ambao wengi wao hutegemea Kilimo, au kusaidia huduma za jamii kama mahospitali, Shule, Visima nk ni wazi maendeleo hayo yatasukuma utajiri.

    Kwa upande mwingine napingana na hoja ya Mh. Balozi.
     
  2. Bowbow

    Bowbow JF-Expert Member

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    Swali rahisi kwa balozi huyu ni Hili: MWILI WOTE UKIWA JICHO SIKIO LITAKAAA WAPI?????
     
  3. Single D

    Single D JF-Expert Member

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    Mabalozi walio na miradi au machimbo ya madini hapa nchini au aidha ni mawakala wa Marais au Mawaziri wa nchi zao katika hii miradi au machimbo ya madini,Nao sasa wameanza kuona tunajua wanatunyonya na kusomba urithi wa ardhi ya vizazi vyetu ndo maana wanaanza kupotosha ukweli.Mpaka kieleweke hatutatulia.
     
  4. F

    Fundi Mchundo JF-Expert Member

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    Hapa uongo uko wapi? Utajiri wa kudumu hautokani na kuchimba madini bali na utafanyia nini mapato yako! Huku ndiko kutengeneza anakozungumzia. Nchi za Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Nigeria na nyingine nyingi ni mifano ya nchi zilizo na utajiri mkubwa wa madini ya mafuta lakini zimeshindwa kutengeneza utajiri na hivyo kubaki duni. Nchi za Singapore, Thailand, South Korea, naam na Mauritius zimefanikiwa kwa kutumia kile walicho nacho kutengeneza utajiri! Nchi za Norway na Dubai ni mifano ya nhi ambazo zimetumia utajiri wao wa mafuta kutengeneza utajiri ambao hautegemei mafuta. Sasa uongo uko wapi aliosema huyu bwana?
     
  5. Bubu Msemaovyo

    Bubu Msemaovyo JF-Expert Member

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    Halafu pia kama kumkumbusha Balozi huyu labda hata Historia haijui, Mataifa mengi ya Ulaya yalikuja Africa kuitawala katika nyanja zote, yaani kuitawala Africa, Kisiasa, Kiutamaduni, Kijamii na Kiuchumi. Dhana nzima ya kuja Africa ilikuwa ni kuiba UCHUMI WETU. Na uchumi huo ilikuwa ni MADINI. Sasa kwakuwa wakati huo hakukuwa na miundombinu mizuri na ya kutosha ndipo tena binadamu aliyetakiwa kusafirisha rasilimali hizi hadi pwani kwa ajili ya kusafirisha kwenda Ulaya ikabidi naye huyu BINADAMU awe ni BIDHAA ya kuuzwa huko ULAYA. Ardhi imeficha kila aina ya UTAJIRI nadhani ana ufinyu wa kuelewa ama alidhani kila linaloongelewa na mweupe ni DHAHABU kwa hapo amenoa stepu. Kama utajiri hautoki ardhini Marekani iko Iraq kufanya nini na kwanini. Uwezo wa huyu Balozi kisiasa nadhani ni 0%
     
  6. F

    Fundi Mchundo JF-Expert Member

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    Bubu Msemaovyo, inaniuma kutofautiana na wewe lakini kwenye hili inanibidi. Mfano rahisi wa anachokisema huyu balozi ni madini yetu ya Tanzanite. Faida kubwa kutokana na haya madini si kwenye kuyachimba bali ni kwenye vito kama heleni,mikufu n.k. vinavyotengenezwa kutokana nayo. Mwingine ni pamba. Mkulima wa kisukuma hata afanye nini hatapata faida anayopata mtu kama Armani na wenzake wanaobuni nguo zinazotokana na pamba hiyo! Hiki ndicho anachozungumzia, Mkuu. Nakubali kuwa sehemu kubwa wa utajiri wa nchi za ulaya ulitokana na dhuluma lakini wao walitumia yale waliyoiba kwetu kutengeneza utajiri ambao umewafikisha hapo walipo. Hizi extractive industries zina mwisho wake na si mbali kama tunavyodhani. Ni kuhusu hiki ndio anatuonya ili tuwe waangalifu. Hajakosea huyu bwana. Ametoa changamoto kwetu na badala ya kumrushia mawe inabidi tuifanyie kazi.
     
  7. Bubu Msemaovyo

    Bubu Msemaovyo JF-Expert Member

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    Nashukuru kwa hisani yako ya kutofautiana nami JF tuna elimishana.
    Kama wenzetu hawa wanauwezo wa kutengeza uchumi nje ya rasilimali basi wamwambie Mmarekani aondoke Iraq anakosakanya "wese" yaani mafuta. Kwetu sisi ardhi ni kila kitu. Uchumi wetu sisi Waafrika uko CHINI tunaukalia kila siku. Wakati tunataka kuinamisha chini tuusakanye huyu Bwana anakuja na Slogani nyingine tusiangalie chini Bali tuutengeneze alete vitendea kazi tutengeneze.
     
  8. F

    Fundi Mchundo JF-Expert Member

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    Ni hiyo picha ndiyo inayoleta matatizo!:)

    Hawawezi kutuletea bila sisi vitendea kazi bila sisi wenyewe kutambua umuhimu wake. Hivi hata siku moja tunajiuliza hayo mashimona mahandaki yatakayabaki baada ya madini kwisha tutayafanya nini? Hakuna atakayetutoa hapa tulipo bali sisi wenyewe.
     
  9. Bowbow

    Bowbow JF-Expert Member

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    Fundi, Good analysis.
    Lakini bado tunasahau kuku na yai nani alianza. Kama alikua anastress kuenda hatua moja mbele yaani processing ya madini kuwa vito kama mkufu n.k nadhani isingekuwa na shida bali yeye anasema hakuna chochote kutokana na rasimali hizo. Hivyo tuende kulima ama kujenga viwanda kama wao.
    Kuna kitu kwenye uchumi wanakiita Comparative advantage whereby the country will specialise in producing the goods which that country has comparative advantage and import the goods which It has comparative disadvantage. sasa sisi tunayo advantage kwenye madini. so bado hoja yake haina msingi kwa maoni yangu
     
  10. F

    Fundi Mchundo JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona sioni aliposema hivyo?

    Hizi nchi alizotelea mifano hazitegemei viwanda kama kweli hiyo ilikuwa ni nia yake. Nchi za Ireland na Finland zilikuwa ni nchi masikini (relatively) lakini ni kuwekeza kwenye knowledge industries ndiko kulikowatoa walikokua. Nchi ya uswisi pamoja na viwanda ni uwekezaji wao kwenye financial services ndiko kulikowagomboa. Nchi ya Mauritius walianza na viwanda lakini sasa wanashift kwenye service na financial industries.

    Kama tunayo hiyo comparartive advantage kwenye madini kama unavyodai basi tuitumie to the fullest. Tuanze kuweka mikakati itakayohakikisha kuwa tunabakia kuwa na hiyo advantage. Hiki hakifanyiki bali tunakazania kuchimba na kuuza. Mtazamo kama huu sio sustainable.

    Si lazima tutengeneze vito ili tuwe na utajiri endelevu. la hasha. Tunaweza kuchukua mapato tunayopata kutokana na hayo madini na kuyawekeza kwenye maeneo ambayo tunadhani ni more sustainable kuliko huo uchimbaji. Mfano Dubai kutumia utajiri wao wa mafuta kujiimarisha kama trading country na nchi ya kitalii. Sisi tungeweza kuhakikisha kuwa mapato yote tunayopata yanachangia kwa kiasi kikubwa kwenye sekta ya elimu kwa mfano. Hiki hatufanyi ndiyo maana anatuasa.
     
  11. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Huyo Balozi amesema kweli ,ila ukweli unauma ,nchi za ulaha hazina rasilimali kama tuliyonayo sisi ila wameweza kutengeza utajiri kutokana na ufunuo wa mawazo yao ,wanakuja hapa wanchimbisha wanapeleka kwao warudi kutuuzia au suvyo huoni kama hapo wametengezeza utajiri ,hata hawa wachimbaji wadogo wadogo bado wamewarahisishia kazi ,matajiri wa huko hawana hata haja ya kuja hapa ,tunachimba tunawapelekea au sivyo bado tupo katika ile ile njia ya utumwa ila utumwa wa sasa umekuwa advance zaidi auna haja ya kuwatuma machifu kuwakamata watu na kuwawekea minyiroro ,jamani hiari yashinda utumwa na wao ndio sasa watautumia msemo huo.
    Mwiba.
     
  12. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #12
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    *************************************
    [/QUOTE]

    I suspect ulikuwa una skive darasa la Economics. Balozi yuko right 100 % and if you need to know why niulize nikupe somo
     
  13. mbarikiwa

    mbarikiwa JF-Expert Member

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    Well, huyu Balozi amesema anachokiona. Serikali yake inafadhili Watanzania kwa mamia kila mwaka kwenda kusoma nchini kwake; anashangaa tuna madini lakini hatuwezi kufadhili Watanzania wengi kama nchi yake kwenda kusoma nje ya nchi.
     
  14. Pope

    Pope Senior Member

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    I suspect ulikuwa una skive darasa la Economics. Balozi yuko right 100 % and if you need to know why niulize nikupe somo
    [/QUOTE]

    Mheshimiwa sana si unijubu kwa hoja inawezekana kwenye Sekta ya Uchumi unaona zaidi ya upeo wa Macho yangu!! Mi tangu nianze ni "Zeros and Ones" tuu sasa nielimishe kwa hoja ndugu.
     
  15. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo pekee, kama unaweza kuliita hivyo, la balozi ni kwamba hakukaa na zile talking points zao za kila siku zilizo safe political correct, amesema ukweli, which is sometimes not desirable in diplomacy and the politics of political correctness.

    I think our country would benefit from more straight talk like this.

    Wasaudi wenyewe wameshaanza ku diversify uchumi wao kutoka kuwa tegemezi kwenye mafuta tu.Somo kutoka kwa balozi ni kuwa maliasili mara nyingi si sustainable, zinaisha, sasa ukitegemea maliasili zikiisha utafanya nini? Inabidi tuwe creative tusiwe tegemezi wa maliasili, maliasili yetu kubhwa iwe akili.Inaonekana wabongo hatushughulishi akili tunataka kupata utajiri kwa kutumia maliasili tu.

    Kwa mfano, na sitaki kuchukua mfano wa mbali, hapo Botswana tu wanafanya mpango kuacha kupeleka almasi ulaya uncut, wanaanzisha kituo kikubwa sana cha kukata almasi kwao kitu ambacho kitasababisha wapate faida maradufu.Sasa hawa ingawa wanachimba madini lakini wanatumia akili, tena wanatumia faida kuimarisha sekta nyingine.
     
  16. M

    Mugishagwe JF-Expert Member

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    Kumbuka Holland pekee inaongoza kwa misaada kwa Tanzania na Mkapa alikuwa nao karibu sana .Kumbuka hawa jamaa ndiyo wana mzungu mwenzao anaiwakilisha Tanzania , na yeye ana jenga Hotel sasa Tanzania na anautangaza Utalii kwa kumpa Leopard Tours biashara and in return ni commission kubwa .Sasa fungueni macho na masikio mtajua haya yote .Wezui hawa na wanaona sasa tunawakaba koo wanataka tuachie wazidi kuiba .Angali makampuni ya Holland yalivyo tapakaa Tanzania utajiuliza mwenyewe .
     
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