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Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Nikupateje, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Aug 20, 2012
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    Mbele ya Jakaya Kikwete, Joyce Banda alitamka kwamba Ziwa Malawi ni la Malawi kwa asilimia 100.

    JK akatamka kwamba hajawahi kufikiri au kusogeza jeshi na yeye ndiye amiri jeshi mkuu.

    JK hata hakuwa na haja ya kusema kwamba tuiachie suala hilo kamati maana wote tunajua na hata humu JF tumeeleza sana kwamba August 20, 2012, Kamati inayojumuisha mawaziri na wataalamu itakutana huko Mzuzu, nchin Malawi kwa suala hilo.


    August 20, 2012 imefika, na ndiyo leo. Sasa, tukae tayari. Baada ya marais kutoa matamko, hali ya hewa humu imebadilika. Waliokuwa wa kwanza kukejeli ukweli kuhusu Heligoland na kuwasema wenzao wa malawi wameshindwa kabisa kumsema JK ni mmalawi.

    Sasa, membe yuleyule aliyetetewa humu JF ni lazima tutajua leo atatamka nini. Membe aliyesema kuwa mpaka uko katikati ya Ziwa tena kwa mujibu wa Heligoland treaty sasa ni lazima atasema matokeo ya mkutano huo.

    Mnaopitia thread zangu na mliosoma article ya Ansbert Ngurumo jana kwenye TANZANIA DAIMA hatuna tofauti sana. Ngurumo alishangazwa na kitendo cha kishujaa cha Joyce Banda kusema Ziwa malawi ni lote la Malawi kwa asilimia 100 na Kikwete akashindwa kusema asilimia za Tanzania kwa ziwa hilo.

    Ngurumo anauliza, kama tuna asilimia sifuri katika ziwa hilo, sasa hayo majadiliano tunaenda kujadili nini? Tutaendaje kujadili ziwa la watu?

    Ndizo hoja ambao humu mimi nimekuwa nikizitetea bila kutetereka jana, leo na kesho.

    Sasa wakati mawaziri wanakutana huko Malawi leo, tuone ni nini kinaweza kutokea kwa kujikumbusha majibu yetu kuhusu mpaka wa Malawi:

    *****
    MAY 26, 1959
    HANSARD YA BUNGE LIKIWA NA WANACHAMA WENGI WA TANU INASEMA HIVI:

    Article II of the Anglo-German agreement of 1890.
    The description of the southern boundaries of Tanganyika, which include the boundaries of Nyasaland, are as follows:
    'from the point of confluence of the Rovuma River with the Msinje River, the boundary runs westward along the parallel of that point until it reaches Lake Nyasa, thence striking northward it follows the Eastern, Northern and Western shores of Lake Nyasa to the northern bank of the mouth of the River Songwe; it ascends that river to the point of its intersection by the 33rd degree of east longitude'.


    *****
    NOVEMBER 30, 1961:

    Nyerere, then Prime Minister, set out the policies which Tanganyika would not adopt, once independent, towards international treaties concluded by Britain.

    *****
    JUNE 11, 1962:

    HANSARD YA BUNGE LA TANGANYIKA HURU HUKU RASHID KAWAWA AKIWA EXECUTIVE PRIME MINISTER INASEMA HIVI:


    In his reply the Prime Minister, currently Rashidi Kawawa, made three points:
    (i)
    that no part of Lake Nyasa fell within German East Africa;
    (ii) that since the boundary had not been altered by Britain after the assumption of the mandate,
    the Prime minister's statement of 30 November 1961 did not apply; and
    (iii) that whatever the disadvantages to Tanganyika, the Government could not contemplate negotiations with either the Central African Federal Authorities in Salisbury or with Britain. 'If there are to be negotiations on this question', he concluded,
    'they must be with the Government of Nyasaland itself and must wait the attainment by Nyasaland of full independence'.
    *****

    Hivyo, wanaojaribu kutudanganya kwamba Tanzania hatujawahi kulikataa ziwa hili kwa kusema siyo letu wajue kwamba wanaweza kufanikiwa wavivu wa kusoma na uvivu huo wa kusoma usidhaniwe kuwa ni ugonjwa ambao umeshateketeza watanzania wote.

    Kwa hiyo, hakuna heado of government wa Tanzania yaani kuanzia Nyerere, Kawawa, Mwinyi, Mkapa aliyewahi kusema tuna asilimia hata moja ya Ziwa Malawi.

    Na badala yake hapo juu tumeona Kawawa ndiye mtu pekee aliyesema tuna asilimia ngapi yaani alitamka wazi kwamba hatuna hata tone moja la maji ya ziwa hilo.

    Hivyo, ingekuwa ni ajabu kwa Kikwete kujiunga na timu ya wajinga wanaodhani tuna hata asilimia yoyote ya ziwa wakati hansard hizi hasa ile ya JUNE 11, 1962 inaonyesha Kawawa akilitangaza ziwa siyo letu kwa hata tone moja.

    Naona Kikwete amechoka kuumbuliwa na ushahidi wa hansard hasa kama ulivyotumika juzijuzi kwenye kesi ya Profesa Costa Mahalu.

    Na zaidi ya yote, tusubiri matokeo ya leo kama ambavyo huwa tunakuwa na hamu ya kusburi update za kesi za mahamamani humuhumu JF na tuone ni nani atabadili kauli humu.

    Viva ukweli, viva historian, viva wasio na uvuvu wa kusoma.
     
  2. Njowepo

    Njowepo JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Aug 20, 2012
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    JK akiwa na opposite sex shida kufanya maamuzi yenye mantiki
     
  3. Aleyn

    Aleyn JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Lowassa tulimponda sana humu ndani tena kwa ujinga wa JWTZ wakaamua kumuumbua ingawa wanajua fika JK ni mwehu, sasa Jeshi huo mpaka muulinde.
     
  4. Thomas Odera

    Thomas Odera Verified User

    #4
    Aug 20, 2012
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    Kwa hili mkuu nimekuelewa na sidhani kama kuna haja ya mjadala maana mipaka iliwekwa na Wajerumani na tangu hapo hatukufanya mabadiliko yoyote
     
  5. M

    Mbofu JF-Expert Member

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    Aug 20, 2012
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    jk noumer
     
  6. jogi

    jogi JF-Expert Member

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    mipaka iliwekwa kwa nchi za Tanzanyika na nyasalanda, ambazo hazipo tunavyoongea, ndiyo maana nchi ya tanzania na malawi zina jukumu la kuutambua utaratibu uliowekwa na UN kwamba nchi zikipakania ziwani, basi mpaka lazima uwe katikati ya ziwa. Tumemaliza.
     
  7. gulio

    gulio JF-Expert Member

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    Aug 20, 2012
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    Kukosa misimamo ya chumbani matokeo huonekana nje- awepo jasiri wa kuokoa
     
  8. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

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    Safi sana mkuu kwa kuutua mzigo wa kushabikia uongo tena uongo usio na vigezo na kusimamia ukweli wenye vigezo.
    Mimi nafikiri tuliokwsisha elewa tuanze kuuliza gharama za mikutano ambayo haina tija yaani kujadili mali za watu wakati huna chako hata asilimia moja na serikali yako kupitia Waziri Mkuu Rashid Kawawa mbele ya mbunge Julius Nyerere mle bungeni alitamka kwamba Ziwa si letu hata tone moja.
     
  9. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna UN convention inayokupa haki kwa Ziwa Malawi. UN convetion imeset hiyo ruling kama hakuna any recognised agreement wakati hapa recognised agreement ni Anglo-Germany treaty inayotambuliwa na kumbukumbu za Serikali ya Tanzania.

    Washabiki wa hili mliolikurupukia inabidi tuanze kujadili matokeo ya kukurupuka. Na kwa Membe na Lowasa hili halitaacha kuwa doa kwao kwa safari zao za kisiasa. Wameidanganya nchi lakini wameshidnwa kuidanganya dunia.

    Mimi sina wasiwasi kabisa na matokeo ya mkutano wa leo huko Malawi kwamba watanzania tutapewa ukweli waziwazi kwamba hatuna hata tone moja.

    Niko radhi Moderator anipige life ban kama haitakuw hivyo kwani nimesimamia ukweli na wanaosema tofauti wamesimami uongo ambao karibu wataumbuka ila wasimpomoshee kejeli Membe ambao baadhi wameshaanza kama huyu gulio hapa chini:

     
  10. zumbemkuu

    zumbemkuu JF Bronze Member

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    wee mmalawi unashida sana aisee, unatapatapa kweli, naona unaiwakilisha vyema intelijensia ya malawi hapa tz.
     
  11. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa inawezekanaje mtu anayewakilisha vyema akawa ametapatapa? Fafanua!
     
  12. jogi

    jogi JF-Expert Member

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    Nani walichora ramani hii hapa! Ambayo malawi pia wanaijua. Kauli ya kawawa sio point of reference kwani hata nyerere alitamka kuwa tuna eneo ziwa nyasa, na nyerere ndiye alikuwa amiri jeshi mkuu. Kama kweli unatumia akili, tuonyeshe hiyo treaty inayosomeka Tanzania kwa upande mmoja na malawi kwa upande wa pili. Hiyo treaty imejifia siku nyiiiiingi, ndio maana wanyasa wakitapatapa baada ya kubadili jina la nchi na kuwa malawi wanajaribu kuwa-fool na kulazimisha ziwa liitwe malawi. KENGE HASIKII KIPIGO MPAKA DAMU ZIMTOKE MASIKIONI.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mwamanda

    Mwamanda Senior Member

    #13
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    Si kweli kwamba mipaka haikubadilika wajerumani walifanya marekebisho mwaka 1919 walitoa ramani nyingine inayoonyesha mpaka ukiwa katikati ya ziwa na serikali inayo ramani hiyo waingereza baada ya vita vya pili vya dunia walichapisha ramani inayotambua mpaka katikati ta ziwa la nyasa hivi ni vielelezo vinavyothibitisha. kuwa wakoloni wote wawili walitambua mpaka katikati ya ziwa.
     
  14. Duduwasha

    Duduwasha JF-Expert Member

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    Kwenye huo Mkutano Je Watakuwepo hao Wakoloni? Germany na British?
     
  15. Lyimo

    Lyimo JF-Expert Member

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    Yani kweli waafrika ni wachovu sana na hatuna uhuru kamili, hata maswala ya mipaka tutasubiri mataifa makubwa yaje yatuamulie.
     
  16. Duduwasha

    Duduwasha JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]

    Hii Kitu
     
  17. Duduwasha

    Duduwasha JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Duduwasha

    Duduwasha JF-Expert Member

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  19. mzamifu

    mzamifu JF-Expert Member

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    hoja yako ndugu nikupateje nimeielewa vizuri. hili la kusema watu ni wavivu wa kusoma si kweli kwa wote kwani taarifa kama hizi ni za ndani sana kwani hata katika vitabu vya historia vilivyopo ni vigumu kuzipata. labda kwa kina lowasa na membe walipaswa kutafuta habari juu ya hili ndipo watoe matamko yao.
    labda ungeonyesha mustakbali wa hali hii yaani je, matokeo ya mjadala huu ni tz kusalimu amri? je, wale wakazi waishio ukingoni mwa lake Nyasaupande wa tz itakuwaje maana wengi wanapata kuishi kutokana na hilo ziwa. mimi naona hivi kuwa ikiwa kizazi chochote mwanzo wake wa kuishi ni katika mazingira fulan kama lilivo ziwa nyasa mazingira hayo yanapaswa kuwa ni mali ya kizazi hicho kwa sababu kinyume cha hivo kizazi hicho hakitaweza kuendelea kuishi. kwa mantiki hii ziwa nyasa ni lazima liwe mali ya watu wote ambao wamekuwa wakiishi kando ya ziwa hili tangu kale kabla ya mkataba wa heligoland wa 1890 hadi sasa. nini maoni yako?
     
  20. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

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    Kama mtoto wa darasa la tatu anaelewa kwamba makubaliano treaty na kuchora ramani ni vitu viwili tofauti, na wewe huelekei akili yako kukaribia uelewa huo, basi hakuna ajabu juzi Waziri wa Elimu aliposhambuliwa kwamba wanafunzi wanachaguliwa Sekondari wakiwa hawajui kuandika.

    Tuiombee kwa Mungu JF ili iweze kuondokana na janga hili la uvivu wa kuelewa, maana unaweza usiwe mvivu kusoma lakini ukawa mvivu wa kuelewa.
     
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