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Askofu Millingo hawezekaniki?

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Kisanduku, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. K

    Kisanduku Member

    #1
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Kuna mijadala inaendelea kujua kama Askofu Emmanuel Milingo kweli ameondolewa uwezo na Vatican wa kuwapa uaskofu maaskofu wengine.

    Hoja inajengwa kwamba uaskofu hauvuliki na kwamba Katekism ya wakatoliki namba 1583 inasema hivi:

    It is true that someone validly ordained can, for grave reasons, be discharged from the obligations and functions linked to ordination, or can be forbidden to exercise them; but he cannot become a layman again in the strict sense, because the character imprinted by ordination is forever. The vocation and mission received on the day of his ordination mark him permanently.

    Je, tunasemaje sisi wana JF, tupitwe na mjadala mtamu huu?
     
  2. Sipo

    Sipo JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Dec 21, 2009
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    H… Healthy, Hopeful, Humble, Humorous, Hummus eater

    A … Appreciative, Approachable, Activist for global peace & justice

    P … Peaceful, positive, …

    P … Passionate, practical, …

    Y… Youthful, yummy, …
     
  3. Bujibuji

    Bujibuji JF-Expert Member

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    viva 4reva
     
  4. K

    Kieleweke Member

    #4
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Mkuu, sijakuelewa. Au umefurahia hiyo nodno ya katekism. Maana wakatoliki wote waliomo humu JF siwasikii. Au wanaangalia upepo unavyovuma! Jamani wakatoliki tupeni nondo wenzenu.
     
  5. M

    Mbunge wa CCM JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Dec 21, 2009
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    hayo ya milingo ni uthibitisho mwingine kuwa "uliijua kweli, hiyo kweli itakuweka huru"

    milingo yuko huru sasa. mashtaka yote anayotuhumiwa hakuna hata moja lililo kinyume na mapenzi ya Mungu. anaonekana mkosaji mbele za wanadamu wenye majoho ya kichungaji. muhimu kuendeleza utumishi wake kwa Mungu na kwa uaminifu wote.

    hicho kifungu ulichonukuu hapo juu kimo kwenye sheria zilizotungwa na watu, hivyo si rejea ya mwisho wa kila kitu, biblia pekee ndio rejea ya mwisho tunayowajibika kuiheshimu wakristo wote.

    ukitata ya waroma, fuata ya waroma, ukitaka ya Kristo, fuata ya Kristo
     
  6. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 21, 2009
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    Kuwadi at toppest of business!
     
  7. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Milingo anachofanya hakilisaidii kanisa. Alipewa karama ya kuponya akawa chanzo cha kuchukiwa na kupigwa vita.Tunasoma Yesu alijinyenyekeza akawa mtii hata mauti ya msalaba.Yeye kwanini anainua mabega juu na kuanza kupingana na mafundisho ya kanisa katoliki kuhusu useja? Tukumbuke, ukipewa kitu kikubwa utaidaiwa makubwa pia.Sifikirii anachofanya ni sahihi.Ningekuwa mimi, ningerudi katika principles za awali za watu wale watakatifu waliokuwa wanasali na kufunga bila kuchoka.Hii vita anayopigana is very destructive to him as a person kuliko kuliharibu kanisa.
     
  8. B

    Bull JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 21, 2009
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    This is criminal, mafia, political party organise by few white old individual using the name of religioun.

    Ebuondoa huu upuuzi!!!
     
  9. Prodigal Son

    Prodigal Son JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Dec 21, 2009
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    waweza thibitisha hilo??????
     
  10. K

    Kisanduku Member

    #10
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Mkuu, inaelekea kifungu chenyewe umekipitia juujuu. Nakukatalia kwamba kimewekwa na watu. Hebu kiangalie kwa makini. Kifungu hicho kinaendeleza biblia unayoamini inayosema kwamba "Ndiwe Kuhani Hata Milele".

    Tatizo lako umedhani niko tofauti na wewe na hivyo ukasoma harakaharaka. Mimi naona Milingo bado ni Kuhani hata milele hivyo kanisa lake ndilo linajikanyaga.

    Njoo uwanjani tena.
     
  11. B

    Babuyao JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Ee, anakuwa mlei kwa maana kwamba anaondolewa haki na wajibu za kiaskofu, lakini kwa kuwa uaskofu wake imeweka hiyo alama (character) hawezi kuwa mlei kamili. Anakuwa mlei kwa kuwa hafungwi tena na wajibu na haki za kiaskofu. Lakini anakuwa si mlei kamili kwa sababu ana hiyo character ya ordination ambayo haifutiki. Kwa hiyo kwa kifupi anakuwa kama popo vile: si mnyama si ndege. Ndiyo maana katekisimu inasema "he cannot become a layman again in a STRICT SENSE".
     
  12. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Dec 21, 2009
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    The Catholic Church, like bisexuals, wants tio have it both ways.

    1. They want to have it so that, someone vetted and approved by the Catholic church is practically, to borrow a mafiosi term "made" for life.

    2. They also want to maintain the power to revoke the status of that very someone who is "made" for life.

    They cannot eat their cake and still have it, it is against the laws of physics.

    You either refrain from eating your cake and save it, or you eat it and lose it forever.

    In wanting to have the bishops "made" for life, and at the same time wanting to revoke their powers, the Catholic church is engaging in reconciling the irreconcilable.

    The church has to make up its mind, are ordained bishops "made" for life or reproachable?
     
  13. Msanii

    Msanii JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Kanisa la Roma au kanisa la Yesu Kristo?
    SHTUKA
     
  14. M

    Mdanganywa JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 21, 2009
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    Walishindwa kufanya hivyo kwa maaskofu wa makanisa yaliyojitenga ya mashariki na sasa wameamua kupatana kwa kitu kinaitwa Ecumenism. Milingo itakuwa hivyohivyo!
     
  15. K

    Kisanduku Member

    #15
    Dec 21, 2009
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    Babuyao,
    Naomba majibu kwa yafuatayo:

    1: Milingo akisalisha misa je divai na mkate havitageuka tena kuwa mwili na damu?
    2: Akipadrisha, akitoa uaskofu, au kipaimara, je sakramenti haimpati huyo anayepewa?
    3: Akiungamisha je Mungu haondoi dhambi za yule mmungamishaji.

    NImekuuliza wewe nikiamini ni mkatoliki. Maswali haya yamejikita kwenye imani ya ukatoliki na wasio wakatoliki ni bora wasikilize sisi wakatoliki tukitafuta majibu haya. Tunajua wengine hamna imani kabisa na hayo hivyo tunaomba wenye imani na niliyoyaulza watujibu kuliko kusema Millingo sasa si askofu tena kana kwamba Yesu tayari ameshamvua ukuhani ambao aliahidi kumpa milele bila kujali dhamb atakayofanya hapa duniani.
     
  16. B

    Babuyao JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2009
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    Kwa kuwa amekuwa mlei (kisheria) matendo yote anayoyafanya ya daraja takatifu (la kiaskofu) yatakuwa valid kwa sababu ya character ambayo haifutiki LAKINI yatakuwa illegal na yasiyotambulikana na Kanisa. Kumbe akisoma Misa mbele ya Kanisa Misa hiyo haitambuliwi kama Misa halali hata kama katika undani wake itakuwa valid. Akipadirisha au kutoa uaskofu wale waliopewa wanahesabiwa ni walei Tu mbele ya Kanisa (au wenye daraja la nyuma kabla ya huyu jamaa kuwapa hili la sasa) hata kama katika undani wake watakuwa wamepata daraja husika kama alifanya kile ambacho Kanisa hukifanya kwa uhalali wa sakramenti. Kumbe hawatatambuliwa kama ni mapadri au maaskofu, matendo yao watakayoyafanya yatakuwa hayana effect mbele ya Kanisa.
     
  17. M

    Mbunge wa CCM JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2009
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    kuna watu wengine mtu anaweza hata kusema kuwa hawana haja ya kuchangia.

    hivi wewe unasema milingo ni kuhani milele??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!, neno milele unajua maana yake???

    mwanadamu kama wewe atakayekufa kitambo kidogo na kuoza awwe kuhani milele?????

    kumbe ndio maana hata mjasiriamali rwakatare bado ana waumini!!!!!!!!!!
    inasikitisha sana!

    ndugu kwa msaada tutani, rejea tena maelezo uliyonukuu kwenye kitabu cha waebrania yanayohusu ukuhani wa milele (mfano wa melkizedeki), uone kuwa hakuna mwanadamu yoyote mwenye sifa zilizoko hapo bali yesu mwenyewe!!!!!!!!!!

    ila unapaswa kuwa makini kuelewa maana ya "mfano wa melkizedeki yule mfalme wa salem", ukishindwa kuelewa tena , kwisha habari yako!!!!!!!
     
  18. K

    Kisanduku Member

    #18
    Dec 22, 2009
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    Kama ni mtihani ume-pass with honors. Umenipunguzia kazi kuwaelimisha wana JF. Hukukosea hata nukta na mimi niliuliza makusudi. Congratulations.

    Sasa tuanzie hapo. Hivyo ndivyo makanisa ya mashariki yalivyoanza yale tunayoyaita Orthodox. Kwamba upadri wao, uaskofu wao na sakramenti zao hazikutambulika kwenye kanisa. Tena baadhi yao ni kutokana na kutofautiana kiimani. Mfano kuna kanisa walitengana kwenye mtaguso wa Chaledean nafikiri. Kutokana na fundisho la kiimani.

    Kwa Millingo siyo hivyo. Milingo hana ugomvi na imani au doctrine yoyote ya kanisa Katoliki. Yeye ana ugomvi na suala la kuoa tu. Kila kitu kinabaki palepale. BIkira Maria ni yuleyule hana matatizo naye. Kanuni ya imani ni ileile.

    Hivyo Millingo na wafuasi wake tatizo lao ni moja tu, useja. Kwamba mapadri wangeruhusiwa kuoa tena sheria waliyojiwekea basi asingekuwa na tatizo.

    Umesema kwamba upadrisho na uaskofu anaotoa Millingo ni valid yaani halali lakini tu haukubaliki ndani ya kanisa. Milingo hana shida ya kukubalika ndani ya kanisa. Analijua hilo na Vatican wanalijua hilo.

    Kinahotokea kwa Milingo ndivyo ilivyokuwa yale makanisa ya Orthodox ambayo leo tunahangaika kuwaita "Makanisa dada". Milingo akipata wafuasi hakuna atakayeshindwa kuita kanisa lake kanisa dada hapo mbeleni.

    Milingo ni tofauti na Father Nkwera au Martin Luther. Hawa wawili hawakuwa na maaskofu wa kuurithisha uaskofu kwenye vikundi vyao. Ndiyo maana wakatoliki wanawatazama walutheri kwa jicho tofauti na wakatoliki wa mashariki. Kwamba walutheri hawana apostolic succession au hawana maaskofu halali lakini wanakubali wa-Orthodox wana maaskofu halali lakini hawakubaliki kanisani kama Milingo na wenzake wasivyokubalika.

    Martin Luther yeye alikuwa ni padri tu hivyo yeye na wenzake alipokufa walikosa kuirithisha ile sakramenti ya daraja ambayo Milingo tayari ameishaitoa kwa zaidi ya watatu ambao na watairithisha kama Orthodox walivyofanya baada ya ile inayoitwa Great Schism.

    Padri Nkwera akifa basi labda atokee askofu apadrishe mtu mwingine ndani ya kikundi cha wanamaombi. Vinginevyo kikundi hicho kinaweza kikose mtu mwenye daraja takatifu kama padri au askofu. Ndiyo maana kuna mmoja alitoa wazo humu tukamcheka alipoleta hoja kwamba Milingo ampe uaskofu padri Nkwera ili kikundi chake kipata mapadri milele.

    Hiyo ndiyo effect ya uaskofu ambao ni ukuhani milele haufutiki. Milingo na hicho kikundi chake tunapaswa tukitahadhari kwa kukiangali kwa jicho hilo la future kuliko kushabikia kwamba sasa wamemaliza kana kwamba yanayotokea Vatican hayajui na kuna mtu wa kumfundisha.
     
  19. K

    Kisanduku Member

    #19
    Dec 22, 2009
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    Mungu alilifanya taifa lake lishiriki ukuhani wa Yesu. Hivyo hata mlei nashiriki ukuhani huo achilia mbali Askofu. Cha kurekebisha katika kauli yangu ni neno ushiriki wa ukuhani lakini kila kitu kinabaki vilevile.
     
  20. K

    Kisanduku Member

    #20
    Dec 22, 2009
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    Hivi Melkizedeki anaishi upande gani wa dunia hii maana kwa upeo wako inaelekea bado yu hai!!
     
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