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Arsene Wenger Manager Bora Kuliko Sir Alex……..

Discussion in 'Sports' started by VoiceOfReason, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Wana Arsenal badala ya kupiga kelele ya kumfukuza Wenger lazima muangalie achievements za Wenger na ni wapi alipowatoa….


    • Wenger alikuja 1996 (Sir Alex alikuwa ana 10 years Head Start) mwaka uliofuata akachukua The Double (FA na Premier League) na hii ni baada ya Arsenal kuwa points 12 nyuma na alishinda akiwa na games mbili mkononi
    • Ameshinda FA Cups 4 Premier Leagues 3 bila pesa ya kutumia sio kwamba alikuwa hataki lakini Arsenal ilikuwa haina pesa

    Je aliwezaje kushinda makombe bila pesa ?

    • Arsenal ilikuwa haijazi uwanja sababu Arsenal ilikuwa inacheza Boring Football ; (mpaka washabiki wengine walikuwa wanaimba, Boring Boring Arsenal na One nill to the Gunners) yaani Arsenal alikuwa akikufunga moja anadefend, Wenger alibadilisha 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 na kuleta mchezo wa kuvutia Highbury hence washabiki kuongezeka na income kuongezeka
    • Arsenal iliuza wachezaji quality kwa kuwanunua kwa bei ndogo ; Anelka pounds 500,000 kutoka PSG na kumuuza 22.3 million pounds baada ya miaka miwili na kwa pesa hizo aliwanunua Robert Pires, Thiery Henry na Lauren to name just a few.
    • Wenger ni Talent Spotter watu kama Henry aliyembadilisha kutoka winger mpaka stricker, Kolo Toure alikuwa midfielder akamfanya defender..., hey isingekuwa Wenger hata George Weah (the African Best World Footballer maybe asingeiona Europe.
    • Timu iliyoweka rekodi ya mechi kumi bila kufungwa kwenye Champions Leageu na kufika fainali ilichukua milion 5 tu kuitengeneza

    Kwahiyo swali linakuja Sir Alex angeweza kufanya hayo akiwa na timu kama Arsenal…???; Maybe NO…..


    • Man United imekuwa na pesa za kutosha kwa kipindi kirefu uwanja wake wa Old Trafford unajaa kila wiki; kwahiyo before Chelsea United ndio timu iliyokuwa ina pesa za kumsajili kila mchezaji wanayemtaka.
    • Pesa walizotumia kumpata Veron; Rud Van Nisteroy na Rio (ambaye walimchukua kwa 30m ingawa leeds walimpata kwa 6m) inaonyesha jinsi huyu babu anavyomwaga pesa, na makosa aliyofanya ya kuwanunua kama kina Jemba Jemba, Taibi ni makosa ambayo Arsenal Could not afford kuyafanya
    • Sir Alex timu iliyompatia manufaa hakununua wachezaji wengi walitokea Academy, alikuwa na bahati ya kwamba wachezaji kama sita wote walipeak at once, (Beckham; Giggs, Scholes, Neville brothersw e.t.c) na sababu amekuwa nao hawa watoto kwahiyo alikuwa anawa-manage kwa udikteta na kwa kuwatisha hence kukorofishana na watu kama kina Jaap Stam.
    • One of the top Signings za United Cantona sio kwamba alimgundua kutoka mbali alikuwepo Leeds na kila mtu alimjua, which means hata kama Arsenal wangemtaka wasingempata kutoka na ubavu wa United kipesa kuliko Gunnerss
    • Ronaldo sio kwamba walipanga kumsajili ni baada ya kwenda kucheza friendly Portugal na alivyowakimbiza kina Rio na Gary Neville, basi wachezaji wa Man United wakamwomba Sir Alex amnunue sababu waliona potential yake.

    Conclusion;
    Kwa timu ambayo haina pesa za kumwaga na kupoteza na kwenye hii current atmosphere ambayo wachezaji ni ma-star na ni vigumu kuwa-dictate I will pick Wenger over Sir Alex any day of the Week!!!!! Angalizo; Kuondoka kwa Wenger huenda hata Europe kwenda kila mwaka ikawa tatizo let alone kuchukua kombe.
     
  2. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Wapenzi wa Man United Mpo wapi naomba mje na data za kunipinga au mnakubaliana na mimi?
     
  3. Belo

    Belo JF-Expert Member

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    Uwezo wa Wenger hamfikii kabisa Ferguson labda kwenye mambo mengine na sio football

    Manchester United wanatumia fedha kununulia wachezaji kwa sababu ya umuhimu ya wachezaji wanaowahitaji na kiasi cha pesa unacho .Kweli kuna wachezaji wamenunuliwa kwa pesa nyingi lakini wengi wao wameleta faida kwenye klabu wachezaji kama Ruud Van Nistelrooy,Rooney,Ferdinand pamoja na kununulkiwa kwa fedha nyingi thamani yao inaonekana.Umesahau kuwa kuna wachezaji ambao Fergie kawnunua kwa bei chee na wameonyesha uwezo mkubwa Vidic,Evra,Park,Chicharito,Ronaldo,Van de Sar wamenunuliwa kwa bei chee lakini uwezo wao unaonekana.

    Suala la kukorofishana na wachezaji hiki ni kitu cha kawaida kwa binadamu ,kila mtu ana msimamo wake hata Guardiola alipopewa ukocha Barca alisema wazi hana mpango na Ronaldinho,Etoo lakini still Barca inafanya vizuri.Juzi Denilson na Bertnder wamemlaumu Wenger,pia sijakusikia kwa nini hujazungumzia suala la Wenger kuwapendelea wachezaji wa kifaransa au kwa nini alimnyima Gilberto ukapteni akampa Gallas,then kwa nini Gallas akaondoka Arsenal.
     
  4. Belo

    Belo JF-Expert Member

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    Matatizo ya Arsene Wenger
    1. Anapenda sana wachezaji wa kutoka France(Wafaransa au kutoka Ligue1) wengine hawastahili kuchezea Arsenal,mfano Diaby,Squilaci,Koscielny
    2. Anashindwa kujenga timu ya muda mrefu,kuna kikosi alianza kukijenga kikiwa na kina Fabregas,Sagna,Clich,Gallas,Toure,Adebayor,Hleb,Flamini lakini kwa uzembe wake wachezaji wengi waliondoka akaanza tena kujenga timu sasa Fabregas,Clichy,Nasri,Denilson,Bertnder nao wanataka kuondoka.Kuna wachezaji anakuwa na uwezo wa kuwazuia wasiondoke kwa kuwaongezea mishahara au njia nyingine
    3. Kuna wachezaji wengi walikuwa wazuri kwenye timu zao but walipofika Arsenal viwango vyao vinaanza kuporomoka mfano Rosisky,Arshavin,Chamakh
    4. Ni mbishi kufanya maamuzi ingawa kuna matatizo ya wazi yanaonekana waziwazi baada ya kuumia Vermalen watu walitarajia atanunua replacement hakununua tukafikiri labda Januari nayo hakununua
    5. Hataki kuwapa nafasi wachezaji wazawa,tumeona backbone ya Barca ni wachezaji kutoka Spain,AC Milan wapo kina Gatusso but tangu wameondoka kina Tony Adams timu haina wachezaji wazawa ambao mara nyingi wanakuwa na uchungu kuliko wageni.Kwa mtazamo wangu Ashley Cole ni mchezaji ambae hakupaswa kuondoka Arsenal na huenda leo angekuwa nahodha labda angekuwa anawafokea kiana Diaby,Fabregas na wengine
     
  5. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Point yangu ni kwamba Arsenal haina uwezo wa kununua wachezaji kama United haina hizo pesa..., United amekuwa akitumia pesa nyingi lakini Arsenal amekuwa akitumia kiasi kidogo cha pesa.., kwa matumizi mazuri ya pesa hadi Arsenal iliweza kujenga uwanja wa Emirates.., Kwahiyo kwa usajili mbovu wa Sir Alex au uwezo mdogo wa kupata undiscovered talent kwahiyo ingekuwa vigumu kwa Sir Alex kumage aliyoweza Wenger Arsenal, Wenger anawapenda wachezaji wa France sababu ndipo alipotoka ni rahisi kuwaelewa kuliko wengine, Kipindi Gilberto yupo mwisho wa siku alikuwa anafunikwa na Flamini.., angekuwa bado mtaalamu asiingeenda Olimpiacos
     
  6. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    1. anapenda wachezaji wa France sababu ndipo lipotoka hence anawaelewa vizuri kuliko wachezaji wa nchi nyingine
    2. Wachezaji hawaondoki kwa uzembe wake bali sababu wanalipwa pesa ndogo wanataka waende pengine walipwe nyingi ila wachezaji wote wanapoondoka Arsenal huwa wanakuwa flops, Henry, Viera, Pires, Hleb to name just a few
    3.Wachezaji inategemea na mfumo wa timu, Wenger alibadilisha mfuno wa Arsenal Kucheza kama Bolton na kuwafanya wacheze kama Barcelona
    4. Kununua wachezaji sio suluhusho la kupata kombe muulize Man City; pia kupata mchezaji anayefaa sio lele mama muulize Ferguson ni makosa mangapi amefanya
    5. Wachezaji wa England ni expensive na overhyped, 16m kwa michael carrick, 12 kwa Crouch na 30m kwa Rio Ferdinand.., kwahiyo kununua England ni overpriced goods
     
  7. Belo

    Belo JF-Expert Member

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    Nazungumzia kutumia fedha kiasi kidogo na kuleta mafanikio yanayoonekana kwa misimu 6 iliyopita sawa ametumia kiasi kidogo but ameleta mafanikio gani?
    Uwanja wa Emirates hilo linajulikana ni fedha za mkopo kutoka Shirika la ndege la Emirates na Arsenal wanalipa deni kidogo kidogo hadi watakapomaliza.Sidhani kama angekuwa na uwezo mdogo wa kusajili angeweza kuwasajili wachezaji kama Evra,Vidic,Ronaldo,Chicharito,Rafael & Fabio.Kwa sasa ukiangalia pia SAF tayari ana timu ya misimu 5 ijayo yenye vijana kama Rafael,Fabio,Jones,Smalling,Chicharito,Pogba,Anderson,Nani,Valencia
     
  8. Belo

    Belo JF-Expert Member

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    1. Sawa ni rahisi kuwaelewa but wengi wao viwango vyao ni vibovu hawastahili kuchezea Arsenal. Diaby,Squilaci,Koscielny hawa hawafai kuchezea Arsenal hata kama wanatoka Brazil.
    2. Wachezaji kama Flamini & Cole Wenger alikuwa anaweza kuwazuia issue ilikuwa kuongeza mshahara ambao Wenger anaweza akaishawishi bodi kutokana na umuhimu wa wachezaji.Kuhusu kuwa flop Henry,Pires& Viera waliondoka wakiwa tayari viwango vyao vimeanza kushuka,wengine kina Hleb,Henry,Flamini walikuwa flop kutokana na kwenye kwenye ligi nyingine zenye mifumo tofauti angalia viwango vya Toure,ACole,Gallas,Upson ambao wamebaki EPL.
    3. Barcelona wanacheza mopira mzuri na wanashinda ,while Arsenal wanajaribu kucheza mpira mzuri na wanafungwa hiyo ndio tofauti
    4. Sawa kununua wachezaji sio kupata makombe but kuna kuna pengo linaonekana linatakiwa lizibwe,baada ya kuumia Vermalen hakuna beki ambae aliweza kuziba pengo lake
    5. Kweli wachezaji wa kiingereza ni bei ghali but ili uweze kushindana kwenye ligi ya nyumbani lazima uwe na wazawa,nimekupa mifano ya Barca,Milan,Bayern,Manu,Chelsea zote zina wachezaji wazawa ambao pamoja na kuwa wengine wana viwango vibovu but wanahimili mikikimikiki ya ligi,na sidhani kama Aston Villa wanaweza kumsajili Daren Bent halafu Arsenal washindwe kumsajili Scott Parker au Gary Cahill
     
  9. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Yaani in short kwa pesa United ambazo wametumia na wanapata kwa miaka zaidi ya 20 kushinda Champions league mbili ni kwamba wameflop kulinganisha na returns, hayo majina yote unayoyataja hao wote wachezaji walikuwa wanajulikana ndio sababu anaspend pesa nyingi kuwachukua, tofauti na Arsenal analeta watu wasiojulikana hence kutumia pesa kidogo ni sawasawa na kama una pesa za kununua Ferrari wewe unanunua pijo...., Sir Alex amekuwa na pesa nyingi sana za kutumia kila akitaka tofauti na Wenger
     
  10. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo ni kwamba ukianza kumuongeza mshahara mchezaji mmoja kila mtu atataka aongezewe hence pesa wages zinakuwa overboard.., Flamini alijifanya kuondoka yupo wapi sasa..., Kuhusu Cole asingeweza kushindana na Chelsea kwa pesa ambazo wanamlipa.

    Issue ni kwamba Arsenal walikuwa wanacheza mpira BORING na walikuwa wanafunga bao moja tu na Kudefend enzi za George Graham.... Huu mpira mtamu wa Arsenal ni Kazi ya Wenger na bila kufanya hivyo uwanja ungekwa unabaki mtupu hence kutokuwa na pesa zozote..., Arsenal haikuwa mbali sana na jirani zao Tottenhum; lakini baada ya Wenger kuja wamepiga hatua kubwa na ameweza kubadilisha mfumo mzima

    Hivi unadhani Scott Parker anacost tshs ngapi...., Wenger mwenyewe alishasema waingereza wapo Overrated na hawana kiwango kivile they are just hyped.

    Na lazima ujue hakuna kazi ngumu kama kupata beki mzuri hivi hata United akiumia vidic na Rio au Chelsea Terry akivuja au kuumia unadhani itakuwaje..., alafu akisajili Top defenders wengi ili mmoja akiumia mwingine azibe pengo, huwezi ukaleta top player ukamuweka bench asubiri nafasi yake. Kuumia ni bahati mbaya ambayo inaweza kumcost mtu yeyote
     
  11. Belo

    Belo JF-Expert Member

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    Nafikiri title ya thread yako ingekuwa Wenger anajua kutumia fedha vizuri kuliko Ferguson
     
  12. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa England kazi ya manager ni kununua wachezaji pia na sio kufundisha tu mpira; sasa basi tukija kwa Ferguson:
    Veron, Taibi, Djemba Djemba, Michael Carrick, Owen (kwa pesa alizotumia); Swali linakuja kwamba huenda usajili sio strong point ya Sir Alex; na kama unatimu ambayo haiwezi kumwaga pesa za kupoteza Sir Alex is not your Man; Na labda kina Bergamp Scholes Neville wote wasingetokea Academy maybe huyu jamaa anageflop.
     
  13. Gang Chomba

    Gang Chomba JF-Expert Member

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    wenger ni sawa na mkia wa Mbuzi...haustiri uchi wala haufukuzi Nzi.

    Ktk makocha vilaza niliopata kuwaona Wenger ndie kinara wa Vilaza.

    Hebu jiulize tangu timu imepata uwanja mpya na kuwa na pesa je ina mafanikio gani?

    well mtoa mada anajaribu kusema eti kwa kubadili mfumo toka 4-5-1 mpaka 4-4-2 basi Arsenal ilianza kucheza mchezo wa kuvutia mpaka washabiki wakarudi tena na kumiminika uwanjani...

    Sasa mi najiuliza ni bora ya 4-5-1 ambayo soka lilikuwa bovu lakini mafanikio ya vikombe yanaonekana au 4-4-2 ambayo hakuna kimombe wala bilauli?

    mkumbuke jamani kuwa mafanikio ya timu sio pesa.
    Mafanikio ya timu ni Vikombe.

    Naomba kuwasilisha hoja.
     
  14. Belo

    Belo JF-Expert Member

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    Taja wachezaji alionunua Wenger na SAF na taja waliofanya vizuri na walioflop tulinganishe
     
  15. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Toka lini uwanja mpya na pesa ikawa mafanikio;
    Tokea timu kama Leeds United, Ipswich, Chelsea Before Abramavich; Portsmouth..., kuwa karibu na kwenda under administration sababu ya kutumia pesa ambazo haina, now imetokea kwamba United sababu ya Glory Hunters wengi wanajaza uwanja wao na mapato yao yamekuwa mengi kwa kipindi kirefu hence uwezo wa kupewa second chance hata ukisign flops na uwezo wa kuwalipa massive wages..., Luxury ambayo timu nyingi haina

    Arsenal ilkuwa inacheza Boring Football Wenger akaibadilsha; na Arsenal imeshinda makombe mengi under Wenger kuliko under mtu yeyote yule Arsenal pamoja na kuvunja rekodi ya all season unbeaten..., makombe sio lele mama tangu premier league ianze ni Blackburn; Chelsea, United na Arsenal pekee walioweza kuchukua kombe

    Mafanikio ya Timu na Makombe pamoja na Building a Team from Point A to B; kuna mafanikio gani kwa timu kama blackburn kuchukua kombe msimu mmoja kwa kutumia pesa nyingi bila kujenga long term success..., kuna mafanikio gani kwa timu kama Portsmouth kushinda FA cup and few seasons after to go under?, Wenger is the Best thing to happen to Arsenal na mfano wa how teams should be run wewe hapa unacheka sababu unaangalia kwenye TV lakini impact ya kuspend beyond means huenda ikaicost timu for future generations...., waulize leeds baada ya kuspend beyond means kwa kuwachukua kina Oliver Dacourt and how that is costing them now au Ipswich kwa kuwanunua kina Finidi George
     
  16. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Wenger

    Thiery Henry; Pires; Kolo Toure; Anelka; Flamini; Freddy L; wote au aliwanunua kwa peanuts na kuweza kuwauza kwa massively pesa nyingi sana Usisahu timu iliyocheza Final na iltumia 5m kuitengeneza; na mtu kama Sol Campbell alimpata bure

    Ferguson

    30m kwa Diego Forlan; Alan Smith; Louis Saha na David Bellion
    28.1m kwa Veron
    Djemba Djemba na Kleberson Hopeless
    30m kwa Rio Ferdinad ambaye Leeds walimpata kwa 6m kutoka newcastle just a few years previously

    Conclusion

    Maybe angemba hizo pesa za Rio Wenger angeweza kutengeneza timu 6 kama ile iliyocheza na Barcelona France
     
  17. Pianist

    Pianist JF-Expert Member

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    ndugu muanzisha thread nadhani hizi link zitakusaidia Alex Ferguson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Arsène Wenger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    labda kama unazumgumzia mafanikio kwa muda ambao makocha hao wamefanya kazi uingereza peke yake.
    Ferguson ameweza kuibadilisha Man U kuwa timu tajiri zaidi duniani na kuwa na mashabiki wengi.
    Upande wa kusajili, unapaswa kujua yeye ni manager, kuna scouts ambao kazi yao ni kutafuta wachezaji na kumshauri yupi wa kumnunua.
    Katika timu ya Man U, unaweza kuona 'age layers' kwenye kikosi cha kwanza; layer ya kwanza Rio, Giggs, Gary, Scholes etc, layer nyingine Rooney, Fletcher, Nani, Gibson etc na nyingine Welbek, Da silvas, De laet, Jones. Hiki ni kitu ambacho Ferguson ameweza kumaintain kwa muda mrefu akiwa manager, Wenger ameshindwa kabisa.
     
  18. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu kazi ya manager England ni kusajili pia yeye ndio anakuwa na Last say sio kama spain na mafanikio ndio tunaangalia kwenye Big leagues sio Scotland alikotoka Alex au Japan alipokuwa Wenger.

    Man United ilikuwa tajiri na following yake ilikuwa kubwa, mkuu tangia zamani hasa baada ya Munich Disaster wachezaji karibia wote walipokufa ile sympathy iliwaongezea following so nothing new hapo mkuu alichofanya ni most successfully na longest serving manager of Man U.

    Wenger ameshindwa kumaintain nini?? Ofcourse Wenger asingeweza kuwanunua kina Veron; au Kina Rooney ambao kila mtu alikuwa anajua uwezo wao hence pesa yao kuwa kubwa..., Mkuu hapa tunaangalia achievements kulinganisha na resources used.., Sir Alex kapewa muda wa kutosha kwenye timu as well as Funds za kutosha kutumia anavyopenda na kupewa uwezo wa kusema na kufanya anachotaka (na sababu kuna group kubwa la kina Giggs lililoanzia tokea academy) imekuwa rahisi kumsikiliza sababu ni kama baba yao tofauti na siku hizi crop of players ambao hawasikilizi..., Therefore maybe technic ya kumage ya Kina Special One na Wenger ya kuwa rafiki na wachezaji na kuwasikilizia works easier kuliko udikteta wa Sir Alex.., currently ni vigumu kufanya kazi
     
  19. Pianist

    Pianist JF-Expert Member

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    Kitu alichokifanya Ferguson kuchukua kombe scotland ni kama vile Benitez alivyochukua kombe Spain na
    valencia, au hapa Bongo timu zaidi ya Watani wa Jadi ichukue kombe, you must give Credit to that.
    Imagine Flamini na Hleb wasingehama Arsenal, imagine nyuma yao acheze Fabregas , kukamilisha diamond awepo RVP, Arsenal ingetisha sana zaidi. Hakuna siginificant age layers Arsenal zinazoleta matumaini ya sasa na future.
     
  20. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    tukianza kuimagine..., basi ngoja tuimagine
    Imagine Jap Stam asingehama United; na hapa haikuwa sababu ya pesa bali personal issues.., Flamini na Hleb walikuwa wanataka pesa zaidi kwahiyo they had to go.., you can not break the banks kwa sababu ya kuwaridhisha baadhi ya wachezaji, pamoja na hao kuondoka Arsenal has been consistently in the Top Four..., Jambo ambalo inabidi kumpa pongezi Wenger kwa kuweza kufanya hivyo bila ku-break the banks..., kumbuka timu kama Liverpool na Man City pamoja na kuspend zaidi ya Arsenal lakini Arsenal inaperform zaidi yao...

    Hakuna mchezaji aliyewahi kuondoka Arsenal sababu ya personal issues...., Wenger alipofika Arsenal alikuwa kuna alcoholics kama kina Tony Adams.., lakini man management yake aliweza kubadilisha kabisa drinking culture ya Arsenal.

    Arsenal inawalipa wachezaji wake mishahara midogo kulinganisha na other top four teams lakini Wenger thats why wachezaji wengi wanaondoka lakini the Guy being a Genous anaendelea kuwaleta wengine

    Jamani lazima tumpe credit mtu aliyeweza kumleta Henry from brink of extinction na kumsaidia George Weah; ......... jambo ambalo Sir Alex sidhani kama anaweza kujivunia., yeye huwa anawasajili wachezaji ambao kila mtu anakuwa ameshawajua
     
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