Adhabu ya Kunyonga Hadi Kufa imepitwa na wakati?

[VoiceOfReason]

NO...., it‘s NOT

Why if I may ask....?, yaani hakuna faida yoyote ya kunyonga watu?

 

[Dr Lizzy]

Why if I may ask....?, yaani hakuna faida yoyote ya kunyonga watu?

Faida gani sasa?!
Aliyeuwawa atarudi?!HAPANA!
Wanaobaki wataogopa kuua?!Kwa kiasi kikubwa HAPANA.

So why bother?!Alambwe mboko kila siku na kazi ngumu/ukosefu wa uhuru ndo adhabu itakayomfaa zaidi.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Yes Mkuu kwahiyo if that the case tuache kutumia hii issue ya determent ya crime ku-justify death penalty.

Hapo tuko pamoko.

Maybe kuna effective way ya kuwafanya wafungwa wawe productive..., yaani kama ina-cost x amount ya kumfunga mtu basi tuhakikishe anazalisha 3x akiwa jela.., huku anapata kibano cha kufa mtu, ili hata akitoka itabidi afikilie mara mbili kabla ya kurudi tena na in case ya watu ambao ni menace to society tuhakikishe they will never taste freedom ever again

I am as pro-life as they come. But when it comes to the issue of first degree murder and capital punishment as its penalty, I am ambivalent about it.

I believe in the sanctity of human life. No human has the right to take another person's life intentionally. Everybody has the right to life and to live. But when a murderer takes away another person's life, that murderer forfeits his or her right to life and to live.

As I have said in previous posts, if it ever happens that my daughter or my father is brutally murdered (knock on wood) by a cold blooded murderer, I think I will have a change of heart. I would not want that killer to breath again.

That is the only way that is going to help me heal my wounds. I can't endure the fact of knowing that that person is still living somewhere. Knowing that he or she is forever gone; that they will never be able to walk the earth's surface again will somehow assuage my pain and help me close that sad chapter of my life.

So to me capital punishment is not so much about deterrence as it is about justice. In my view a cold blooded killer will never be productive. You kill my loved ones; you deserve to be killed also. Period, end of story.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

That is the only way that is going to help me heal my wounds. I can't endure the fact of knowing that that person is still living somewhere. Knowing that he or she is forever gone; that they will never be able to walk the earth's surface again will somehow assuage my pain and help me close that sad chapter of my life.

So to me capital punishment is not so much about deterrence as it is about justice. In my view a cold blooded killer will never be productive. You kill my loved ones; you deserve to be killed also. Period, end of story.

As for the case of healing your wounds am sorry you will be disappointed nothing can and will ever heal your wounds its just learning to live with it.

As far as revenge is concerned you might get what you wanted (although am thinking even that revenge might not be as sweet cause if someone killed four of your loved ones a slow and painfully death they might have suffered more than what this lunatic is going to suffer, what am saying is there are a lot of sufferings which one can get which are more effective than death

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

As for the case of healing your wounds am sorry you will be disappointed nothing can and will ever heal your wounds its just learning to live with it.

I agree. The only way that would heal my wounds is to bring back my loved ones which is impossible. But that doesn't mean nothing should be done. Something has to be done and life has to go on. To help me in that process of moving on with life without my loved ones, I have to know the perpetrator is gone for good.

As far as revenge is concerned you might get what you wanted (although am thinking even that revenge might not be as sweet cause if someone killed four of your loved ones a slow and painfully death they might have suffered more than what this lunatic is going to suffer, what am saying is there are a lot of sufferings which one can get which are more effective than death

Revenge for murder is never sweet. The most important thing to me is that a killer has no right to live. How we are going to take away that right, well, we can debate about it.

But for most death sentences I know, those who are condemned to die don't get killed right away. So they do have ample time for reflection which is in and of itself torturous.

 

[charndams]

Hukumu ya kifo si kwa ajili yao tubali kuwapa peace of mind waliokosewa.. Na tukiwafunga kifungo cha maisha watakuwa wanaTumia nguvu zetu ku ishi (tax)

i totally agree with afrodenzi

 

[charndams]

Faida gani sasa?!
Aliyeuwawa atarudi?!HAPANA!
Wanaobaki wataogopa kuua?!Kwa kiasi kikubwa HAPANA.

So why bother?!Alambwe mboko kila siku na kazi ngumu/ukosefu wa uhuru ndo adhabu itakayomfaa zaidi.

na ukosefu wa uhuru ambao nadhani unafaa zaidi ni kumnyima mkosaji nafasi ya kufurahia O2

 

[Dr Lizzy]

na ukosefu wa uhuru ambao nadhani unafaa zaidi ni kumnyima mkosaji nafasi ya kufurahia O2

Duh...mpaka OXYGEN ambayo hata wewe hulipii unaionea uchungu?!

 

[VoiceOfReason]

i totally agree with afrodenzi

hili swali limejibiwa hapo juu wafungwa wanaweza wakawa productive wakajilisha wenyewe na hata watu wengine.., hata huyo mtu anayehukumiwa kunyongwa kuendesha kesi na kuandaa process mpaka ya kumyonga inatumia cost nyingi sana

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

hili swali limejibiwa hapo juu wafungwa wanaweza wakawa productive wakajilisha wenyewe na hata watu wengine.., hata huyo mtu anayehukumiwa kunyongwa kuendesha kesi na kuandaa process mpaka ya kumyonga inatumia cost nyingi sana

So what kama itagharimu kiasi kikubwa cha fedha katika mchakato wa kumpata na hatia, kumhukumu, na hatimaye kumuua muuaji? Fedha mbele ya haki ya binadamu waliouawa ina thamani yoyote kweli? Sidhani katu!

 

[VoiceOfReason]

So what kama itagharimu kiasi kikubwa cha fedha katika mchakato wa kumpata na hatia, kumhukumu, na hatimaye kumuua muuaji? Fedha mbele ya haki ya binadamu waliouawa ina thamani yoyote kweli? Sidhani katu!

Hii ni response ya mdau mmoja aliesema kwamba kuwafunga hawa watu wanatumia pesa zetu (kodi) na mimi nikamweleza kwamba its not true sababu hata kunyonga kodi yetu inatumika..., Na hapo suala la kwamba kumuua muahilifu itakuwa ni haki imetendeka kwa waliobaki (this is debatable)...

Just a question mtu aliyebaka mtoto wa mtu tumfanyeje?.... tumyonge au na sisi tubake mtoto wake? Cause I can argue kubaka mtoto is as much a serious offence as killing

 

[charndams]

Kwahiyo una-advocate an eye for an eye.., ukitaka mtu mkono na wewe ukatwe mkono? huoni kwamba hapa jamii itapata hasara badala ya kilema mmoja basi watakuwa na vilema wawili?, huoni kwamba ingefaa zaidi kama huyu aliyekata mkono afanyishwe kazi na matunda ya kazi zake yaweze kumtunza aliyemdhuru?

hapa ningekubaliana nawe kama kuna well structured systems za kufanikisha mambo hayo, otherwise mimi na advocate an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. it is simply a fair game where no one is left scorch free having committed brutal murder. imagine merciless killing of albino and brutal mutilation of their body parts......yet the hooligans are left to enjoy free oxygen...i believe no corporal punishment given can ever justify sufficient impact of their actions.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hii ni response ya mdau mmoja aliesema kwamba kuwafunga hawa watu wanatumia pesa zetu (kodi) na mimi nikamweleza kwamba its not true sababu hata kunyonga kodi yetu inatumika..., Na hapo suala la kwamba kumuua muahilifu itakuwa ni haki imetendeka kwa waliobaki (this is debatable)...

I agree. It is a moot point. Some may see it that way and others may see it a different way. And both or all sides of the argument can have excellent points.

Just a question mtu aliyebaka mtoto wa mtu tumfanyeje?.... tumyonge au na sisi tubake mtoto wake? Cause I can argue kubaka mtoto is as much a serious offence as killing

Rape is not the same as murder. Get that one straight. Huwezi kumnyonga mbakaji. Na kumbaka mwanae si sawa kwa sababu mwanae hakufanya huo uhalifu. Adhabu ianze na kuishia kwa yule aliyetenda kosa tu. Kuhusu tumfanyeje...well...inategemea na mengi. Binafsi sina huruma kabisa na wabakaji wa watoto. They deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. And you don't wanna know if it were up to me what I'd do them....

 

[SMU]

hili swali limejibiwa hapo juu wafungwa wanaweza wakawa productive wakajilisha wenyewe na hata watu wengine.., hata huyo mtu anayehukumiwa kunyongwa kuendesha kesi na kuandaa process mpaka ya kumyonga inatumia cost nyingi sana

Haki vs gharama.

Suala 'gharama' (monetary!?) kwenye makosa ya jinai/mauwaji haliepukiki kama unataka kutenda haki. Argument kwamba kuendesha kesi za mauwaji ni gharama kubwa ipo very weak (hasa nikiichanganya na hoja yako ya kuwa adhabu ya kunyona ni ndogo/haitoshi). Kwa nini gharama ni kubwa? (jibu la suala hili litakuonesha uzito wa adhabu ya kunyonga kulinganisha na adhabu nyingine).

Kama ukitaka kuangalia gharama (na sio haki), kuna kesi nyingi tu za kijinai hata zisingepaswa kusikilizwa kabisa mahakamani ama wakosaji kufungwa (kuepuka gharama). Lakini bado kesi zinafanyika na wanaotiwa hatiani wanapewa adhabu ili kutoa haki kwa pande zote.

 

[charndams]

Hii ni response ya mdau mmoja aliesema kwamba kuwafunga hawa watu wanatumia pesa zetu (kodi) na mimi nikamweleza kwamba its not true sababu hata kunyonga kodi yetu inatumika..., Na hapo suala la kwamba kumuua muahilifu itakuwa ni haki imetendeka kwa waliobaki (this is debatable)... Just a question mtu aliyebaka mtoto wa mtu tumfanyeje?.... tumyonge au na sisi tubake mtoto wake? Cause I can argue kubaka mtoto is as much a serious offence as killing

kunyonga is not costly as compared to feeding,medical cover and amenities accrued to a life sentence hooligan. pia huwezi kufananisha kubaka na kuua. aliyebakwa ana uhai na kupitia rehabilitation maisha yatakuwa sawa. aliyebaka ndo anastahili life sentence, viboko na kazi ngumu ili liwe funzo kwake na watu wenye tabia kama yake.

Imagine babamtu anauliwa na ndo bread winner kwenye familia-meaning familia nzima itaadhirika physically, psychologically and spiritually.

 

[charndams]

siionei uchungu ila ninachosema ni kwamba mkosaji alimnyima mwenzie oxygen ambayo yeye hailipii, iweje basi na yeye aruhusiwe kuifurahia ilihali anaionea uchungu mtu anapoitumia?

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Haki vs gharama.

Suala 'gharama' (monetary!?) kwenye makosa ya jinai/mauwaji haliepukiki kama unataka kutenda haki. Argument kwamba kuendesha kesi za mauwaji ni gharama kubwa ipo very weak (hasa nikiichanganya na hoja yako ya kuwa adhabu ya kunyona ni ndogo/haitoshi). Kwa nini gharama ni kubwa? (jibu la suala hili litakuonesha uzito wa adhabu ya kunyonga kulinganisha na adhabu nyingine).

Kama ukitaka kuangalia gharama (na sio haki), kuna kesi nyingi tu za kijinai hata zisingepaswa kusikilizwa kabisa mahakamani ama wakosaji kufungwa (kuepuka gharama). Lakini bado kesi zinafanyika na wanaotiwa hatiani wanapewa adhabu ili kutoa haki kwa pande zote.

Point yangu ya kuhusu gharama imekuja pale watu waliposema kwamba kunyonga kunapunguza cost (mimi nikasema process nzima mpaka kufikia mtu kunyongwa ni gharama sana sababu huwa wanahakikisha mtuhumiwa anapata utetezi mzuri sana ili kuhakikisha kwamba haki inatendeka na sio kumyonga mtu ambae hana hatia (kwahiyo point yangu pale ilikuwa kwenye ku-justify death penalty tusiweke suala la kwamba inapunguza cost).

Na issue ya kwamba Death Penalty haitoshi mimi naona ni ndogo lakini State na Society inaona ni kubwa na itakuwa ni pigo kwa state ikija kubainika kwamba aliyenyongwa halikuwa hana hatia (na hii imeshatokea before) na bado nina-argue kwamba kifo sio ultimate na the worse punishment (ingekuwa hivyo watu wangekuwa hawajiui). Hata mimi nikipewa a choice either nipate a quick death (kunyongwa) au nikae maisha yangu yote yaliyobaki kwa mateso nitachagua kunyongwa...

 

[charndams]

EA JUDGES ROOT FOR DEATH PENALTY (DAILY NATION TUESDAY JULY 26,2011)

Judges from three East African countries have rejected calls to abolish death penalty.
No one had a right to kill and offenders should suffer the same fate, said the judges on Monday.
The judicial officers from Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda are attending a three-day meeting on death penalty at Silver Springs Hotel in Nairobi.
"It should be an eye for an eye so that two of us have an eye each. Abolitionists favour more rights for the offender than those of the victim.
"A person who plans to take away my head simply because I have no hair for financial gains does not deserve to live," Uganda's principal judge Yorokomu Bomwine said.
He said justice should be for the victim and offender. "As an opinion leader in my community, a person who takes away the life of another in such brutal manner should be paid in same way," Mr Justice Bomwine said.
British High Commissioner to Kenya Rob Macaire, Penal Reform International (UK) project manager Jacqueline Macalesher, Mr Livingstone Sewanyana of Foundation for Human Rights Initiative and International Commission of Jurists (K) official George Kegoro had pushed for death sentence abolition.
Mr Macaire urged Kenya and other countries in the region to formally abolish death penalty.
But Mr Justice David Musinga said an opinion poll showed 75 per cent of Ugandans wanted death sentence to remain and the same applied in Kenya.
Mr Justice MJ Emukule stated: "There's a discontent between what we say in this room and what an ordinary person living in Korogocho thinks."
Former Tanzanian Chief Justice Augustine Ramadhan concurred and asked: "Are we going to extend abolition even in cold blood murders?"
Lady Justice Philomena Mwilu questioned who those fighting for abolition of death penalty represented.
"Whose right to life…? He has taken away my life. Why should I keep his? We should send a message killing is wrong. You should not go about killing people and get away with it." Justice Mwilu said.
She said the life of offenders should not be protected more than "other persons." But Uganda's Commissioner-General of Prisons Johnson Byabashaija called for substitution of death penalty with long sentences.

 

[charndams]

Point yangu ya kuhusu gharama imekuja pale watu waliposema kwamba kunyonga kunapunguza cost (mimi nikasema process nzima mpaka kufikia mtu kunyongwa ni gharama sana sababu huwa wanahakikisha mtuhumiwa anapata utetezi mzuri sana ili kuhakikisha kwamba haki inatendeka na sio kumyonga mtu ambae hana hatia (kwahiyo point yangu pale ilikuwa kwenye ku-justify death penalty tusiweke suala la kwamba inapunguza cost).

Na issue ya kwamba Death Penalty haitoshi mimi naona ni ndogo lakini State na Society inaona ni kubwa na itakuwa ni pigo kwa state ikija kubainika kwamba aliyenyongwa halikuwa hana hatia (na hii imeshatokea before) na bado nina-argue kwamba kifo sio ultimate na the worse punishment (ingekuwa hivyo watu wangekuwa hawajiui). Hata mimi nikipewa a choice either nipate a quick death (kunyongwa) au nikae maisha yangu yote yaliyobaki kwa mateso nitachagua kunyongwa...

hahahahahahah!!!!!subutu yako!!!!!!!!!!!! i swear huwezi kubali kunyongwa, utaprefer life sentence

 

[VoiceOfReason]

kunyonga is not costly as compared to feeding,medical cover and amenities accrued to a life sentence hooligan.

Process ya mpaka mtu kuja kunyongwa ni kubwa sana..., alafu tunaweza tukafanya gereza likawa productive yaani kuhakikisha kwamba mfungwa kama alazalisha 2x basi matumizi yake ni x yaani tuhakikisha kila wanachokula wanakizalisha na surplus inapatikana

pia huwezi kufananisha kubaka na kuua. aliyebakwa ana uhai na kupitia rehabilitation maisha yatakuwa sawa. aliyebaka ndo anastahili life sentence, viboko na kazi ngumu ili liwe funzo kwake na watu wenye tabia kama yake.

Mkuu hivi ulishasikia watu waliobakwa mpaka maisha yao yote hawawezi kumsogelea mwanaume?, hivi hujasikia watu waliobakwa mpaka kila siku wanapata nightmares na kujiona wachafu hadi kujiona worthless....? mkuu kuua mtu ni kwamba yule unayemuua ni kwamba pale anakuwa ameondoka effect inabaki kwa ndugu na jamaa wakati kubaka unaweza ukaleta machungu ya lifetime kwa muhusika pamoja na ndugu zake. Alafu hatujui psychological damage huenda abuse unazomfanyia huyu mtu kama ni mdogo akiwa mkubwa unaweza ukasababisha na yeye akawa katili hence kuua watu

imagine babamtu anauliwa na ndo bread winner kwenye familia-meaning familia nzima itaadhirika physically, psychologically and spiritually.

Mkuu kwani kunyonga ndio kutamrudisha huyo bread winner?, lakini psychological damage ya kumbaka mke au mtoto wa mtu unaweza ukamfanya asitake kuguswa na mwanaume tena au kama ni mtoto achukie tendo la ndoa.., na kama ni mke wa mtu just imagine effect atakayokuwa nayo mme wake na watoto...? Pili ndio maana nikasema njia nzuri labda ni kumfilisi aliyentenda hayo mauaji au kumfanyisha kazi na profit kwenda kwa waathirika