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Abdul-Rahman BABU

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Game Theory, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Hivi huyu naye ndio alifutika kabika kwenye historia yetu? Naona huku wazungu wanamwona one of the greats from Africa

    [​IMG]

    pichani MALCOLM X alipokuja Tanzania akiwa na BABU

    Nakumbuka wakati ni ko secondari nilisoma kile kitabu chake cha AFRICAN SOCIALIST or SOCIALIST AFRICA?

    je kumbu kumbu yenu ni ipi kuhusu BABU?
     
  2. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    GT,
    Babu hatasahaulika just for the fact that he was an intellectual who put his intellect to work. Alijitahidi kuandika vitabu na hivi vitasaidia kuweka historia yake. Unlike Kambona ambaye aliishi Uingereza God knows kwa miaka mingapi. Alishindwa kuandika hata kitabu kimoja tu kuelezea tofauti kati yake na Nyerere. By the way Babu was also a friend so I am a bit biased.
     
  3. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Binafsi nilijua kuwa BABU alikuwa ni mzima sana na alikuwa ana command respect among the leftisthapa UK na London to be specific east end, enzi hizo Labour walikuwa wanachakaza mabenchi ya opposition, enzi za apartheid in SA na Cold war
    Strange enough jamaa wa Caribbean ( wasomi) lakini wanamheshimu sana na michango yake aliyokuwa akiitoa, mind you hata KARL MARX Londion lilikuwa chimbo lake mpaka alipofariki the same applies to other prominent scholars.

    Chavez alipokuja London of course the only chance ya kumuona ilikuwa kumingle na ma socialists wetu hapa ndipo Mbunge mmoja wa Labour ambaye ni leftist Jeremy Corbyn alipoanza kunipa story za Babu

    Sasa why did i remeber him leo? few moments ago nilikuwa natazama BBC NEWS on BBC4 kulikuwa na story ya mwaandishi mwingine maarufu mwenye asili ya Caribbean anaitwa Dereck Walcott ambaye ni playright na poet na bila kusahau aliwahikushinda Nobel prize in Literature sometimes back

    Jamaa anafanana sana na Marehemu BABU

    [​IMG]
     
  4. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Thats very true sijawahi kuona hata kitabu kimoja kilichoandikwa na Kambona. Lakini Babu bwana tembelea duka lolote lile la vitabu watakwambia kama hakijaisha basi watakutolea order

    Inatia kinyaa kuona nchi ambayo zamani tulikuwa tunatoa magwiji left and right tumebakiwa na ZERO!

    Hebu soma hii article sijui iliandikwa lini from Time magazine

    Tangibar - TIME
     
  5. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    GT,
    Thanks for this article. Looking back nashangaa kuona western media wakimpotray Babu as a leftist, a communist. Sikuona tofauti kati ya Nyerere na Babu in the 60's lakini Nyerere always came out as a moderate ( someone we can do business with) The only difference, in my view, ni kwamba Karume did not trust Babu, and having Nyerere choose between the two he chose Karume. But then Babu was exiled on the mainland.
     
  6. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Hapa umesema kitu kimoja muhimu sana.

    Ninaamini katika eneo letu la Afrika ya Mashariki tukiangalia watu ambao walikuwa na uwezo wakujenga falsafa ya msingi ulioongoza dira za maisha yao kuna watu watatu hasa; Nyerere, Babu, na Mazrui.

    Nyerere alikuwa ni mjamaa akiongozwa na nadharai yake aliyojaribu kusynthesize usoshalist na kuufanya uonekane ni wa kiafrika. Babu naamini alikuwa ni more radical than Nyerere lakini zaidi alikuwa ni classical socialist. Mazuri yeye ni yule ambaye aliweza baadaye kufafanua vizuri kile alichoita Urithi wa pande tatu. Kwamba hakuna kitu hasa cha Kiafrika per se bali Mwafrika ni zao la hii "triple heritage) yaani masalio ya Kimagharibi (uzungu-Christianity), Mashariki ya Kati (Arabic - Islam) na Uafrika.

    Lakini naamini Babu ndiye mtu aliyeweza kumchallenge Nyerere intellectually kuliko Kambona. Kwangu mimi kati ya watu tuliowakosa katika utumishi wa umma Tanzania ni Babu (nakumbuka stori moja ilitokeaga aidha New Africa au Africa Now) ndiyo iliniintroduce hasa to Babu. Jina la Babu katika Tanzania lilihusishwa zaidi na intellectual defiance. Upinzani wa Babu dhidi ya Nyerere ulikuwa ni wa kisoma (intellectual opposition) walikuwa wanatofautiana sana kiasi kwamba kwa vile mmoja alikuwa ni Mtawala (Nyerere) the other could not have submitted himself under him.

    Lakini tukiangalia maendeleo ya kisiasa ya Afrika ya leo na hali ya kiuchumi ya dunia sidhani kama Nyerere na Babu wangekuwa mbali sana from each other intellectually.
     
  7. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    Babu alikuwa mwanamapinduzi wa kweli according to the role he played kwenye mapinduzi ya Zanzibar, hakutofautiana na Nyerere kifalsafa kwa sababu alikuwa mjamaa wa kweli bali alitofautiana na Mwalimu kwa mtazamo kuwa ni mmoja wa mamaster minder wa mauaji ya Karume.

    Mwalimu alimuona Babu kama threat kwa future ya muungano wetu kutokana na kuwa ni interluctual. Ili muungano udumu kazima rais wa Zanzibar awe yupo yupo tuu kama Hayati Karume (Abedi Amani) na hata mwanaye (Amani Abedi) na ajaye ni mtu kama Khatib au Mwinyi au mwingine yeyote ili mradi asiwe intalectual aweze kupelekwa pelekwa na serikali ya muungano asije akahatarisha muungano.

    Mwalimu Nyerere alimheshimu Babu kama mwanamapinduzi halisi na mjamaa wa kweli.
     
  8. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Babu alishamiri, na kupewa nafasi ya kuongoza, hadi alipotofautiana na Nyerere. Nadhani kiongozi pekee aliyewahi kutofautiana na Nyerere na asiangamizwe ni Mtei. Wengine wote (Kasanga Tumbo, Chief Fundkira, Kassim Hanga, Oscar Kambona, Babu) walikiona cha moto. Kati ya hao, Kasanga Tumbo ndiye aliumizwa na Mwalimu zaidi (Kassim Hanga alitokomezwa na Karume).

    Somo hapa ni hili: Babu hakumwelewa Mwalimu? Na ilikuwaje Mwalimu alikuwa anasema hataki "yes men", lakini hakuvumilia mtu yoyote ambaye si "yes man"?
     
  9. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Mwalimu Moshi,

    Tofauti kati ya Babu na Mwalimu hazikuwa big issue. Nakumbuka wakati wote baada ya mapinduzi ya Zanzibar Babu hakurudi Zanzibar. Nilikuwa namwona kila siku pale Dar kwenye gari yake ya Holden. Baada ya kifo cha Karume Babu na Salim walihusishwa katika mauaji hayo na serikali ya Z'bar ilitaka Babu arudishwe na Mwalimu alikataa. Badala yake alimweka Babu detantion mainland na baadaye akamwachia and I later met Babu in NY akanielezea kuwa Mwalimu saved his life. Nadhani tofauti baina yao zilitokea pale Mwalimu alipochagua kufungamana na Karume badala ya Babu. But then Karume was the power in Zbar na Babu belonged to the opposition. My take is that if Babu had been in Karume's shoes he would have worked smoothly with Mwalimu than it was with Karume, but then that is my own opinion.

    On Kasanga Tumbo, on his return from London he declared to the press that he had been paid 60K Pounds to pindua Nyerere. It wasn't long he was put in detention. I thought he was a fool.
     
  10. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Jasusi,

    Mimi nielewavyo (and I stand to be corrected), Kassanga Tumbo alisimama kupingana na Mwalimu katika Uchaguzi Mkuu (1960 or 1961?) na akashindwa. Hicho ndicho kilimfanya Mwalimu amtokomezee Kasanga Tumbo Sumbawanga kwa miaka 10. Is that not so? I am not quite sure about this part of our History!

    Abdallah Fundikira was also banished to the South for some time, by Mwalimu, or was he not? It was a time when Mwalimu was developing a GULAG mentality, and Sumbawaga seemed to be the perfect place for our very own Gulag.

    Shed some light on these matters, if you can. I would particularly like to know whether anyone else was ever banished to Sumbawanga by Mwalimu.

    Bila shaka ni sahihi kwamba Mwalimu aliokoa Maisha ya Babu. Mwalimu had a deep respect for life. He knew that the old sailor, Karume, would kill Babu if he was returned to Zanzibar. That, unfortunately, does not seem to have been enough to stop the same Mwalimu from handing Kassim Hanga over to sure death at the hands of Karume.


     
  11. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Mwalimu,
    Nyerere was smarter than that. Alimpeleka Kassanga Tumbo ubalozi London
    na Fundikira was the first Justice Minister. Alikabiliwa na kesi ya "ufisadi" yaani alitumia fedha za wizara lakini akatumia "udini" kusema kuwa alikuwa anaandamwa kwa sababu ya Uislamu wake. Hapo ndipo walipofarakana na Nyerere, lakini sidhani alipelekwa Sumbawanga. Kumbuka huyu alikuwa na heshima kubwa ya uchifu wa Unyanyembe so he had to be treated with kid gloves. I was amazed siku alipofariki Mwalimu kumuona Fundikira on TV akilia kama mtoto mdogo.
    Baada ya Kassanga Tumbo kusema alipewa fedha na Uingereza kumpindua Nyerere aliwekwa detention. Sasa kama alipelekwa Sumbawanga sina hakika.
    Kesi ya Kassim Hanga was a bit different. Yeye alihifadhiwa mainland na Mwalimu, kama ilivyokuwa na Babu, lakini katika njama za mapinduzi ya 1967 alikuwa upande wa Kambona. Nakumbuka ule mkutano wa hadhara ambapo Mwalimu alimwita Hanga mpumbavu and that was the end of him. Actually nasikia Karume alimpigia simu Mwalimu kumkejeli juu ya Hanga kuwa angemsikiliza yeye Karume kwa sababu alimjua Hanga zaidi. So Mwalimu handed him over to Zanzibar.
     
  12. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Wakuu naomba kuweka kidogo hapa,

    1. Ninaamini kuwa Babu alikuwa ni mmoja kati ya best African intellectuals, infact nikiwa College US tulitumia kitabu chake kimoja, kwenye darasa la international politics, kwa hiyoi kweye hili la usomi, alikua ni aliyebobea sana.

    2. Now tatizo langu na Babu, ni uongozi wake kisiasa kwa sababu nina wasi wasi kuwa either hakuna enough history ya records zake, au hazikuwepo kabisa, au mwenye kujua vyema atuweke sawa hapa exactly where are his political leadership records? Alifanya nini kama kiongozi?

    3. Yeye na Mwalimu walikuwa na political standing ya namna gani hasa? Kwa sababu Babu was very much involved na deal nyingi chafu za kisiasa underground, lakini Mwalimu always looked the otherway ni kwa nini hasa?

    - Kwa sababu according to the CIA, Babu aliwahi kuwapeleka wanafunzi wa ukomandoo Cuba, kati ya hao wanafunzi kumi aliowapeleka huko walikuwemo Salim na Mahafudhi, na kwamba nia na madhumuni ya Babu ilikuwa ni one day waje waipindue the then serikali ya Karume, na ni moja ya sababu kubwa sana US waliyoitumia kumnyima Salim, ukatibu wa UN.

    4. Mauaji ya Karume yalipotokea Babu alikuwa ni mmoja wa tuhumiwa kule visiwani, lakini akakimbilia bara ambako Mwalimu, alimmuweka lupango lakini kwa mazingara ya utatanishi sana na baadye alimuachia huru, sasa swali langu ni how Babu aliweza kuwa this lucky? Je alikwua na uadui na kisiasa na Mwalimu au kuna ukweli ambao hausemwi?

    Kwa kumaliza ninaomba ksuema hivi, kwa kweli mimi ni mmoja wa wananchiw aliokuwa disappointed na Babu na Kambona, kwa sababu walipokuwa nje nilisikia sana sifa zao, nikaamini kuwa mawazo ya Mwalimu yanaenda un-challenged kwa sababu watu kama wao hawapo bongo, kwa hiyo siku wakirudi itakua patashika ya Chua ngoma na Juma Mrisho.

    Lakini that was the case, siku walipoamua kuhutubia wananchi Jangwani nilikuwa mmoja wa wananchi wa kwanza pale kiwanjani, lakini hata kabla hawajamaliza hotuba zao, niliona kama wananchi wengine walivyoamua kuwa ni bora kujiunga na maandamano ya Mtikila, yaliyokua yanapita pale kutokea Magomeni kwenda Kariakoo kwa sababu yalikuwa yana-make more sense kuliko hawa wakulu.

    Ndio nikajifunza one thing, kwamba Mwalimu pamoja na mapungufu yake mengi sana yasiyosemeka, alikua ana akili sana huenda kuliko wananchi wote waliokuwepo Tanzania wakati tunapata uhuru, au?
     
  13. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    FMES,
    Babu's fate in the Zanzibar revolution was that of an outsider. Babu was from the Umma party and Karume distrusted him. But Babu was intelligent and an intellectual who could exchange ideas with Nyerere. Have you ever wondered why Nyerere was taken in so much by Salim to the extent he twice wanted to give him the presidency? Kuhusu mauaji ya Karume ni kweli Babu had prior information na nasikia siku anauawa Babu alishinda na redio yake akisubiri taarifa ya habari kutoka BBC. Lakini baada ya mauaji ya Hanga na yule aliyewahi kuwa balozi wetu Marekani (jina linanitoka labda GT atasaidia) Nyerere was reluctant to hand over Babu to the Zanzibar govt na akaamua kumweka kizuizini on the mainland. Salim vile vile hakurudi Zanzibar mpaka baada ya Jumbe kuondoka mamlakani. FMES tofauti kubwa ya Kambona na Babu ni kwamba even in exile Babu alijitahidi kuandika vitabu na makala. Kambona alipelekwa na TANU Uingereza kusomea uanasheria 1958 ili arudi kuisaidia serikali mpya but he did not even finish law school. I met Babu several times in NY nyumbani kwa balozi Rupia. He was a man you could argue with.
     
  14. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    1.
    Sawa sawa.

    2.
    Hapa sijakupata mkuu?

    3.
    Kwa nini hakupelekwa kwenye sheria kama weingine?

    4.
    Je unamuongelea Balozi Foum?

    5.
    Ni kweli lakini why mpaka Jumbe alipotoka kwenye power?

    6.
    Sawa sawa.

    7.
    Lakini was he not a criminal mkuu? Maana hebu tuwe wakweli yeye na kina Seif Bakari, nani alikuwa na makosa kweli kisheria?
     
  15. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    As we reflect on Babu a true Communist or Socialist (whichever yuo prefer to address him), one question comes to mind.

    If Nyerere, Babu and even Salim had strong socialistic ideas and they were able to sell them to Tanzanians, who were the anti socialism in Tanzania and which ideology did they stand for?

    If we had Feudalists, Petty Bourgeoisie or Capitalists politicians, where are their ideas, policies and philosophies? how did they try to sell us an alternative product from Ujamaa?

    Since Ujamaa is practically dead, what is the new policy or drive of those who were anti-Ujamaa? If it is free market economy, how are they selling the idea to Wananchi?

    I am worried that not only we have lost a pack of idealists but we are failing to groom new intellectuals or idealists regardless of political following!

    FMES,

    On Nyerere appetite to ohave Salim to be the President, is simply because Salim is a Nationalist, similar to Sefu Hamad, and being a Nationalist, is close to be a Mjamaa. I think if Sefu would not have tripped out of CCM, he could have been a president of Zanzibar and possibly Muungano!
     
  16. Kuhani

    Kuhani JF-Expert Member

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    Kunyoosha rekodi za Historia zinazowekwa humu, Hamad haku "trip out of CCM." Alifukuzwa katika mazingira ya kutatanisha.

    "Mei 1988, Maalim Seif alifukuzwa uanachama wa CCM na wenzake sita kwa kwenda kinyume na maadili ya chama chini ya Mwenyekiti wa kikao hicho, marehemu Baba wa Taifa, Mwalim Julius Kambarage Nyerere.

    Mei, 1989, Bw. Seif aliwekwa kizuizini kwa tuhuma za kupatikana na nyaraka za siri za serikali. Hata hivyo, alishinda kesi hiyo katika mahakama ya Rufaa Tanzania."


    Imeripotiwa na Mwinyi Sadallah
    IPPMedia
     
  17. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Duh! basi utakuwa kijeba kweli kweli.....
     
  18. Lusajo

    Lusajo JF-Expert Member

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    Uwe na respect man! hao ndio wanaleta michango ambayo tungeikosa kabisaa, hapa JF pangekuwa mahali ovyoo sana kama sio watu walioishi muda mrefu kuchangia, ndio maana huwa napenda kuingia hapa kwa sababu michango yao ina make sense na wana busara.
     
  19. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    There you go again Bwana Kuhani, unakimbilia kusahihisha kitu bila kujua kuwa nilichoweka hapo ilikuwa ni kutumia kauli tata (ambiguos)!

    Do you think sijui kuwa alifukuzwa kutoka CCM?

    Kwa kuwa wewe ni mtaalamu wa lugha nitakufafanulia maana yangu ya kutumia neno tripped out na kumuweka Sefu kuwa wasifu wa ku-tripped out na sio kusema he was tripped out of CCM!

    Jiulize kama Waziri Kiongozi, mjumbe wa Kamati kuu na Halmashauri kuu pamoja na kuwa nafikiri mkuu wa oganaizesheni au fedha, ilikuwaje Sefu akafukuzwa CCM? alifanya nini yeye binafsi akajikwaa na hivyo kufukuzwa au tuseme walifanya ni ni wakahakikisha anajikwaa na kufukuzwa?

    Ushanielewa na matumizi yangu ya makusudi ya Sefu tripped out and not Sefu was tripped out?
     
  20. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    Rev.Kishoka,

    ..kwa kweli wanasiasa na hao mnaowaita intellectuals wananiboa kwelikweli.

    ..the fact kwamba watu kama hao have some prominence in our country, is the reason for our being underdeveloped.

    ..kwanini nchi hii haina inventors? kwanini hatuna enterpreneurs? kwanini hatuna industrial captains? kwanini hatuna enviromentalists?

    ..nchi imejaa wanasiasa kila kona. ghrrrrrr!!!!!

    NB:

    ..Maalimu Seif angekuwa na subira akamsaidia Sheikh Idris Abdul-Wakil Nombe nina hakika angekuja ukwaa Uraisi wa ZNZ, na baadaye Muungano.
     
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