A Tanzanian Renaissance - Mwamko wa Kitanzania

[Companero]

Is this what Africa needs now? Samahani mkuu but your concepts or ideologies seem like zingewafaa wapigania uhuru wetu. Why look at what worked for others 200 years ago when we can look at what's working for them now? Hata kama wenzetu walipitia hizo stage it does not mean it will work for African's in the 21st century. So unless you tell us how it can practically be implimented for us now, all I have learnt from your threads is that Africa is centuries behind other countries. I hope you are open to constructive criticism.

Ndugu natumai unaelewa Kiswahili na Kiswanglish. Ni hivi. Sisi tumeamua kuwaiga. Na wao walishasema kuwa maendeleo ni evolutionary. Hivyo ukishakubali kuiga ina maana unabidi upitie stepu zile zile walizopita - no shortcut to progress hapo. Huwezi kuruka. Utawezaje kutembea kabla ya kusimama au kutambaa? Hivyo once you accept the linear model of development then you automatically accept you are 200 years behind them. That is what Hernando de Soto said in 'The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumph in the West and Fail Everywhere Else' nasi tukakubaliana naya tukamwita kuanzisha Property and Business Formalization Programme (PBFP) aka Mpango wa Kurasimisha Rasilimali na Biashara za Wanyonge Tanzania (MKURABITA). So, what I am saying here is that if you don't want to accept who you are i.e. an African Socialist who has his/her own models of development then keep mimicking/imitating Western Capitalism but don't think you can achieve that without passing through the steps that made them that - these stages including the Renaissance and Enlightenment - and ushered Western Modernity!

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Ndugu natumai unaelewa Kiswahili na Kiswanglish. Ni hivi. Sisi tumeamua kuwaiga. Na wao walishasema kuwa maendeleo ni evolutionary. Hivyo ukishakubali kuiga ina maana unabidi upitie stepu zile zile walizopita - no shortcut to progress hapo. Huwezi kuruka. Utawezaje kutembea kabla ya kusimama au kutambaa? Hivyo once you accept the linear model of development then you automatically accept you are 200 years behind them. That is what Hernando de Soto said in 'The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumph in the West and Fail Everywhere Else' nasi tukakubaliana naya tukamwita kuanzisha Property and Business Formalization Programme (PBFP) aka Mpango wa Kurasimisha Rasilimali na Biashara za Wanyonge Tanzania (MKURABITA). So, what I am saying here is that if you don't want to accept who you are i.e. an African Socialist who has his/her own models of development then keep mimicking/imitating Western Capitalism but don't think you can achieve that without passing through the steps that made them that - these stages including the Renaissance and Enlightenment - and ushered Western Modernity!

Lakini si wewe mwenyewe ulianzisha thread ya neo-socialism? Halafu sasa unasema inabidi tuige the West? Sasa which is which mkuu? Unataka neo-socialism au unataka tuige the West? Maana there is no such thing us neo-socialism in the West.

 

[Companero]

Mwanafalsafa na Nyani, sijui kama mnajua hiyo 'present' tunayoitengeneza sasa iko based on what. Iko based na European 'past'. It is as simple as that. Our present as well as our future at the moment is premised on reaching were Europe is now i.e. it is based on following the steps they followed in the 'past' to be where they are now. Kasomeni sera na programu zetu za Mkukuta na Mkurabita, they are all focusing on catching up with Europe. Now how do you catch up if you are not in the past? Mkielewa hilo mtaelewa what I mean. If you want to be where Europe is now you have to awake the way they awoke - free your society from the tyranny of religion, monarchy and etcetera so that people can think freely and invent without barriers!

Sasa mimi na Mwalimu tunasema kuwa sio lazima tudese European Model kwa kuwa:" We, in Africa, have no more need of being "converted" to socialism than we have of being "taught" democracy. Both are rooted in our own past--in the traditional society which produced us."

Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit - From Nothing Nothing Is Produced!

 

[TanzanianFemale]

I agree with the idea of a Tanzanian Renaissance but it should be a TANZANIAN Renaissance.

 

[Companero]

Lakini si wewe mwenyewe ulianzisha thread ya neo-socialism? Halafu sasa unasema inabidi tuige the West? Sasa which is which mkuu? Unataka neo-socialism au unataka tuige the West? Maana there is no such thing us neo-socialism in the West.

Scandinavia kuna nini? Au sio West?

Hivi hujaelewa bado nachosema? Nasema hivi: if you want to do it their way to it properly but if you/we are who you/we are then you/we can't so better do it our way - the socialism way, albeit, the neo-socialism one!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Mwanafalsafa na Nyani, sijui kama mnajua hiyo 'present' tunayoitengeneza sasa iko based on what. Iko based na European 'past'. It is as simple as that. Our present as well as our future at the moment is premised on reaching were Europe is now i.e. it is based on following the steps they followed in the 'past' to be where they are now. Kasomeni sera na programu zetu za Mkukuta na Mkurabita, they are all focusing on catching up with Europe. Now how do you catch up if you are not in the past? Mkielewa hilo mtaelewa what I mean. If you want to be where Europe is now you have to awake the way they awoke - free your society from the tyranny of religion, monarchy and etcetera so that people can think freely and invent without barriers!

So basically, what you are saying is we need to copy everything that they did to get where they are now, right?

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Scandinavia kuna nini? Au sio West?

Hivi hujaelewa bado nachosema? Nasema hivi: if you want to do it their way to it properly but if you/we are who you/we are then you/we can't so better do it our way - the socialism way, albeit, the neo-socialism one!

Mkuu sasa lakini wewe mwenyewe umesema kama tunataka kuiga the West which wengi watadhani unaongelea capitalism which is the system we are following now. If you want be specific sema "mimi" na siyo "sisi" na make it clear unaongelea social democracy which is the system wanayofuata Scandinavia. Sasa wewe unasema West which is already generalizing it tujue ipi? Maana during hiyo renaissance ya the West there was no such thing as neo-socialism. Sasa be specific mkuu

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Mwanafalsafa na Nyani, sijui kama mnajua hiyo 'present' tunayoitengeneza sasa iko based on what. Iko based na European 'past'. It is as simple as that. Our present as well as our future at the moment is premised on reaching were Europe is now i.e. it is based on following the steps they followed in the 'past' to be where they are now. Kasomeni sera na programu zetu za Mkukuta na Mkurabita, they are all focusing on catching up with Europe. Now how do you catch up if you are not in the past? Mkielewa hilo mtaelewa what I mean. If you want to be where Europe is now you have to awake the way they awoke - free your society from the tyranny of religion, monarchy and etcetera so that people can think freely and invent without barriers!

Sasa mimi na Mwalimu tunasema kuwa sio lazima tudese European Model kwa kuwa:" We, in Africa, have no more need of being "converted" to socialism than we have of being "taught" democracy. Both are rooted in our own past--in the traditional society which produced us."

Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit - From Nothing Nothing Is Produced!

Mkuu wewe na Mwalimu mnasema mlikaa wote mka come up with this? Au useme nimesoma sehemu na nakubaliana na mtu au watu fulani. The way you put it is as if you came up with the idea na huyo Mwalimu. Na pia what worked in Europe does not necessarily mean it will work for us. Pia bado unarefer kuwa lazima tupitie walicho pitia wenzetu ili mfumo wau utufanyie kazi na sisi sasa during hiyo reneisance walipitia neo-socialism? Unless usi generalize West nzima useme sehemu zipi zilipitia hiyo neo-socialism.

 

[Companero]

Ok. Mwanafalsafa. Let me be specific. Tanzania is copying a liberal democratic model premised on the ideals of liberalism, albeit, metarmophosed into neo-liberalism. However, it is not neoliberalism that brought development to Europe prior to Thatcherism, rather, it was an ideology that came afterward to deal with the social and economic crisis in Europe by cutting down cost both in Europe and in the places where Big European Powers had control through investment and donor funding.

Now neoliberalism is in a major crisis to the extent that some critics believe that it has committed suicide that is why stimulus packages are being unloaded in Euro-America. Yet we are still trying to copy that bailing out without checking out the similarities and differences between Tanzania and Euro-America. We aren't the same.

The development model that brought prosperity in Europe was a mix of the Spirit of Capitalism and the Spoils of Imperialism. We don't have the latter. We have tried to implement the former in vain. Why? Maybe because it is not enough - yes, maybe it is because the two went hand in hand in developing Euro-America that is why we cannot do with one. Yet we can't have both since we are not imperial nor can we be.

In the final analysis we are left to come up with our own model of development that can help us address our situation within our own context. Mwalimu tried but he failed because he mixed to many models. So here were are proposing Ujamaa Mamboleo.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

In the final analysis we are left to come up with our own model of development that can help us address our situation within our own context. Mwalimu tried but he failed because he mixed to many models. So here were are proposing Ujamaa Mamboleo.

I say go right ahead with it coz at the end of the day, guess what, I'll still be right!!

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Ok. Mwanafalsafa. Let me be specific. Tanzania is copying a liberal democratic model premised on the ideals of liberalism, albeit, metarmophosed into neo-liberalism. However, it is not neoliberalism that brought development to Europe prior to Thatcherism, rather, it was an ideology that came afterward to deal with the social and economic crisis in Europe by cutting down cost both in Europe and in the places where Big European Powers had control through investment and donor funding.

Now neoliberalism is in a major crisis to the extent that some critics believe that it has committed suicide that is why stimulus packages are being unloaded in Euro-America. Yet we are still trying to copy that bailing out without checking out the similarities and differences between Tanzania and Euro-America. We aren't the same.

The development model that brought prosperity in Europe was a mix of the Spirit of Capitalism and the Spoils of Imperialism. We don't have the latter. We have tried to implement the former in vain. Why? Maybe because it is not enough - yes, maybe it is because the two went hand in hand in developing Euro-America that is why we cannot do with one. Yet we can't have both since we are not imperial nor can we be.

In the final analysis we are left to come up with our own model of development that can help us address our situation within our own context. Mwalimu tried but he failed because he mixed to many models. So here were are proposing Ujamaa Mamboleo.

Ok mkuu nakuelewa. I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions because it is the way we learn. Umesema we are trying to copy the West but we are not like them, right? And then you say we must copy the renaissance of the West? Then ukaongezea ukasema we must copy what they went through step by step because it is a process. Sasa mkuu don't you think this is contradictory kidogo? We must copy there past but we can't copy their present? And won't copying their past eventually lead us to their present?

 

[Zakumi]

Wandugu hebu niambieni watu wangapi walileta hiyo European Renaissance, wangapi walikuwa wanasoma magazeti kati ya hao - na wangapi walikuwa wanasoma Biblia na Mavitabu?

Companero:

Malizia hasira zako hapa hapa. Msije mkajaribu kuingia msituni na kulazimisha renaissance kwa mtutu wa bunduki. Nyie wana mapinduzi mkishindwa hoja hamchelewi kushika bunduki.

 

[Companero]

Mkuu wewe na Mwalimu mnasema mlikaa wote mka come up with this? Au useme nimesoma sehemu na nakubaliana na mtu au watu fulani. The way you put it is as if you came up with the idea na huyo Mwalimu. Na pia what worked in Europe does not necessarily mean it will work for us. Pia bado unarefer kuwa lazima tupitie walicho pitia wenzetu ili mfumo wau utufanyie kazi na sisi sasa during hiyo reneisance walipitia neo-socialism? Unless usi generalize West nzima useme sehemu zipi zilipitia hiyo neo-socialism.

Usiweke maneno kwenye mdomo wangu. Mwalimu sio wa kwanza kusema hicho na sio wa mwisho. Hivyo sina haja ya kusema hivyo unavyodhani ni sahihi mimi kusema. Ufahamu huo hauna hatimiliki - hasa kwetu Wajamaa.

I haven't said they passed through Neo-Socialism, I was just asking you if that Capitalism is is Universally Western. In general, I am talking about the Rise of Modernity, Capitalism and Imperialism in Europe - the old Europe of the Renaissance/Englightenemnt Project & Industrial Revolution -as aptly captured below vis-a-vis Africa below by Ngugi wa Thion'go:

When Vasco da Gama set foot at the Cape in 1498, it was part of the general period of what has come to be known as the European renaissance, the founding moment of Capitalist modernity and Western bourgeois ascendancy in the world. It was also the beginnings of the wanton destruction of many city civilisations along the coasts of Africa, East Africa in particular. In 1994 Nelson Mandela as the first black president of the Republic of South Africa at a meeting of the OAU in Tunis recalls the destruction of
Carthage by the generals of an earlier empire and says: “where South Africa appears on the agenda again, let it be because we want to discuss what its contribution shall be to the making of the new African renaissance. Let it be because we want to discuss what materials it will supply for the rebuilding of the African city of Carthage.”​

...This brings us back to the words of the great African sage
who, as he stood in Tunis hearing in his mind the words of the Roman general who sentenced the African city of Carthage to death, refused to moan about the death and past loss, but instead, he lets its memory carry him on new waves of optimism. ‘All human civilisation rests on the foundation of the ruins such as those of the African city of
Carthage,’ Mandela said, recalling no doubt all the ruins wrought on the psyche of the continent by the more contemporary empires of European modernity. Then he issues the call:​

‘One epoch with its historic task has come to an end. Surely another mustcommence with its own challenges. Africa cries out for a new birth. Carthage awaits the restoration of its glory.’​

Surely with his life Nelson Mandela has earned the right to issue that call to the youth of Africa.​

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[MwanaFalsafa1]

O.k. basi tupe mfano where that neo-socialism worked. So far you are loading us with material but you have not shown a practical way from which it could work for Tanzania. Una explain tu what your theory is but bado sioni how it can practically work for Tanzania.

 

[Companero]

Companero:

Malizia hasira zako hapa hapa. Msije mkajaribu kuingia msituni na kulazimisha renaissance kwa mtutu wa bunduki. Nyie wana mapinduzi mkishindwa hoja hamchelewi kushika bunduki.

Mimi sio mkombozi. Hakuna wakombozi. Watu hujikomboa wenyewe. Wao ndio huamua kuleta mapinduzi. Wanamapinduzi tunafuata tu matakwa yao.

 

[Companero]

O.k. basi tupe mfano where that neo-socialism worked. So far you are loading us with material but you have not shown a practical way from which it could work for Tanzania. Una explain tu what your theory is but bado sioni how it can practically work for Tanzania.

Ndugu what part of 'toward' don't you understand in the call 'Toward Neo-Socialism'? By the way, did I say it is my theory? In Ujamaa, theories are collectively developed, collectively owned and collectively implemented!

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Ok mkuu nakuelewa. I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions because it is the way we learn. Umesema we are trying to copy the West but we are not like them, right? And then you say we must copy the renaissance of the West? Then ukaongezea ukasema we must copy what they went through step by step because it is a process. Sasa mkuu don't you think this is contradictory kidogo? We must copy there past but we can't copy their present? And won't copying their past eventually lead us to their present?

Ndugu what part of 'toward' don't you understand in the call 'Toward Neo-Socialism'? By the way, did I say it is my theory? In Ujamaa, theories are collectively developed, collectively owned and collectively implemented!

Ok mkuu jibu post yangu ya hapo juu nadhani uliiruka bahati mbaya then tume malizana mkuu. If we agree nitaku support if not I will wish you all the best in your quest.

 

[Companero]

Ok mkuu nakuelewa. I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions because it is the way we learn. Umesema we are trying to copy the West but we are not like them, right? And then you say we must copy the renaissance of the West? Then ukaongezea ukasema we must copy what they went through step by step because it is a process. Sasa mkuu don't you think this is contradictory kidogo? We must copy there past but we can't copy their present? And won't copying their past eventually lead us to their present?

Gosh, that is not what I am saying! I am simply using a Fanonian Sarcasm and Nyanian/Ngabuan Rhetoric to explain my 'either or' point: If you want Tanzania to be like - or to be - Europe just let them do it for you for they are the ones who know how to be Europe for that is who they are BUT if you really want to be Tanzania then do it the Tanzanian way because that who you are - HIVYO NDIVYO ULIVYO. And as far as I am concerned to be a Contemporary Tanzanian is to be Neo-Socialist (Mjamaa Mamboleo).

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Gosh, that is not what I am saying! I am simply using a Fanonian Sarcasm and Nyanian/Ngabuan Rhetoric to explain my 'either or' point: If you want Tanzania to be like - or to be - Europe just let them do it for you for they are the ones who know how to be Europe for that is who they are BUT if you really want to be Tanzania then do it the Tanzanian way because that who you are - HIVYO NDIVYO ULIVYO. And as far as I am concerned to be a Contemporary Tanzanian is to be Neo-Socialist (Mjamaa Mamboleo).

Mkuu unaongea kwa passion sasa na si hoja. Wapi nimesema nataka kuwa kama West? Wewe si ndiyo unataka neo-socialism which kwa maneno yako mwenyewe ni system ya Scandinavia which is in th West. Na umeshasema as far as you are concerned kuwa Mtanzania ni kuwa neo-socialist which means it is your opinion so it's not a matter of fact. How does it make me any less Tanzanian then you if I don't believe in Neo-Socialism. Useme tu ndivyo ulivyo wewe.

 

[Companero]

Ok mkuu jibu post yangu ya hapo juu nadhani uliiruka bahati mbaya then tume malizana mkuu. If we agree nitaku support if not I will wish you all the best in your quest.

Nadhani nimeijibu hiyo post kabla ya kupata hii. Kama kweli tunataka kufika huko walipo Europe kwa kufuata modeli zao kwa kutumia 'a linear evolutionary develpment model' na 'history by analogy' basi lazima tuangalie modeli zao za zamani na tuone kama kweli zinaweza kuigwa. Kwa mfano Hernando de Soto yeye anaamini kuwa tukitengeneza mfumo wa umiliki wa kisheria wa mali kama ulivyotengenezwa huko Ulaya na Marikani miaka 200 basi tutaweza kuwa na mitaji hai inayoweza kuzalisha kwa kutumia tu hati ya kumiliki hizo mali kupata mikopo na kadhalika. Sasa swali ni je hii ni kweli maana hiyo mifumo ya Ughaibuni haikuja tu kutoka mwezini - ilihusisha kunyanganya watu mali zao na kuwatengenezea uzio na kadhalika. Je, na sisi leo tufanye hivyo kwa jamii zinazomiliki rasilimali kama ardhi kwa pamoja? Na hata tukifanyahivyo je hizo hati kweli zitaweza kutumika katika mifumo ya kisasa ya soko kuleta hiyo tija hasa katika kipindi hiki ambacho hiyo mifumo ya soko hasa soko la hisa na mikopo iko hoi bin taabani? Hivi ni lazima tuangalie huko Magharibi ili tuendelee?

'We must stop looking to the West were the Sun sets and start looking to the East were the Sun Rise' - Robert Gabriel Mugabe