Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

A lesson From Libya.....Watawala wetu,did you get it?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by jmushi1, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Wengi waliokuwa wakifuatilia visa vya Libya mtagunduwa kuwa wengi wetu tulikuwa na misimamo yatofauti kuhusiana na vita hivyo huko Libya vya kumwondoa kanali Gaddafi ambayealikuwa kiongozi wa Jamahiriya chini ya chama maarufu kama "green party."

    Binafsi sikupendelea kuanza kwa vita hivyo.Sababu ni nyingi ikiwemo upotevu wa maisha ya wasiokuwa na hatia hususan kina mama na watoto.

    Na pia niliamini kuwa havikuwa na sababu.However walibya wenyewe hawakuamini hivyo.Ni wazi kuna migawanyiko ya kikabila.

    Hivyo upande wa kina Gaddafi na makabila yaliyokuwa yakimpa sapoti ukazidiwa na makabila yaliyopata msaada wa NATO.

    And so they did what they think it is right for their country,thats what they needed.They know their country better than i do.

    Hata kama analysis yangu ita conclude kuwa ni makosa.Bado haitabadili ile fact kuwa "thats what they want" And "they" means the Libyans.Kwamba what they want is aligned to what NATO wants/mission?hiyo si topic kwasasa.

    Swali kubwa hapa ni kama watawala wetu wamesoma alama za nyakati na kujifunza ama wataweka pamba masikoni kama kawaida.I dont think they wanna do that!

    Sitaki kusema mengi,hiyo ni Libya yao,na ni only Libyans should decide on thow he future of their country should look like.

    Ila sisi tuna haki yaku analyse situation base on how we perceive it.And in the best of our knowledge on the subject matter.

    And we do have different perspectives.

    Ninachofanya hapa ni kutoa ushauri kwa watawala ama viongoziwetu.Kwamba cha msingi ni kuwasikiliza wananchi.

    Ndivyo dunia ya sasa ilivyo.Viongozi wetu mnajuwa kabisa kuwa dunia imebadilika lakini mnajisahau,na kwamba sasa kile jamii inachokitaka kwa wakati huu,itakidai kwa nguvu zote,haijalishi kama wewe utaona kama hakiwafai.

    Nyakati hizi si zile za kuchaguliwa na viongozi mustakabali wa Taifa.Hizi ni zama mpya za nguvu ya umma.Muwe makini watawala na msome alama za nyakati!

    Tulibishana sana humu kwamba walibya wana maisha mazuri sana,tena hata hawana deni,hawadaiwi.Lakini umma wao una mawazo ya tofauti ma unataka ya tofauti?

    Tunajuwa jinsi utawala wa Gaddafi ulivyoijenga Libya na kuwa nchi yenye kutamaniwa hata na mataifa makubwa.Kweli mzeee wa watu alizisimamia rasilimali za Taifa lile vyema.

    Lakini nimegunduwa kuwa jamii nyingi zenye utajiri wa mafuta especially za waarabu,utajiri huo si big deal kwenye madai ya wananchi.

    Wanajuwakuwa upo,wana confidence na utajiri wao,inaonekana hawaamini utaisha karibuni na hivyo wanachojali hao ni demokrasia ya kufanya wanayoyataka na kusema wanayoyataka pia kubadili viongozi wao kwa kadiri wanavyoona inafaa.

    Ukingalia kwa upande wetu sisi ni tofauti kabisa.Tunapigakura kila mara kuchagua viongozi tunaowataka.Sasa hivi wanatuacha tunaongea sana kama tunavyotaka tulakini maendeleo hawatupi.

    Kwa hiyo utaona sisi tunataka maendeleo lakinihatusikilizwi.

    Nimegunduwa licha ya kwamba situation za mataifa yetu ni zatofauti,bado jambo moja ni la kweli,kwamba bottom line of it ni kuwasikilizawananchi.....And give them what they want.

    Tatizo la viongozi wa Afrika na kwingineko nikutokuwasikiliza wananchi.Gaddafi angetayarisha mazingira ya kuachia madaraka kwa kuwatayarisha viongozi wazalendo.

    Basi angekuwa amewasikilza wananchi ambao kwa wana amini kuwa makabila mengine pia yanaweza kutawala given that wanachaguliwa kidemokrasia!

    Hapo ndipo alipoharibu kwa kuwaweka wanawe mbele tu ili waje kurithi.Ni kosa kubwa licha ya kwamba nia yake kwa Libya ni njema.

    Hakujifunza na wala kusoma alama za nyakati.Na ndichokinachoendelea nchini mwetu.Kwa kutokuwasikiliza wananchi,viongozi wetu hawazisomi alama za nyakati.

    Wanaweza wakawa wanazitumikia interest ambazo si zawananchi kwasasa na wakajiona kama wako salama kutokana na kuhakishiwa usalama huo na hao wenye interests.

    However historia itawahukumu kwa tofauti.Na hili nikwasababu interest hizo si za wananchi.Na kwasababu wako madarakani.

    Basi wanatumia nguvu hizo za madaraka walizopewa na wananchi vibaya.

    Siku wananchi wakiamuwa,hao wanaowatumikia wata dandia bandwagon ya wananchi,halafu wanajipanga upya.Si wajinga,they are around and they will always be around."The devil will always be on our shoulder."

    Ushauri wangu kwa viongozi wetu ni kwamba,hakuna kitu kibaya kama kuchukiwa kwa kiasi kikubwa na wananchi.Na ni mbaya zaidi kama wakikata tamaa na kuwa desparate!

    Kuna utaratibu ambao umeonekana kwa viongozi wetu ambapo wanaonekana kama hawayatumikii maslahi ya wananchi hata kidogo.

    Je, watanzania wanataka viongozi wao wazisimamie rasilimali zetu na kufanya kama alichokifanya Gaddafi kwa walibya kwa upande wa maendeleo nawalibya wanataka alichokifanya JK kwa watanzania kwenye upande wa uhuru wa habari na mengineyo yenye kuendana na "Demokrasia"?

    Bottomline la kujifunza ni "Give the people what they want"And you will be safe! Ukijidai kuingiza ulufundi wako utaumbuka!
     
  2. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 4
    Trophy Points: 0
    There is no any lesson whatsoever which our descent government has to learn from Libya's events. So said because the political atmosphere in Libya was immensely different from our democratic ambience we've been enjoying for all these 50 years of independence. Gaddafi was an absolute tyrant, a mindless monster and indeed a slayer. He never pondered over handing over power to anyone but only to his henchmen and he centralised the hierarchy for his own gain. His trend is utterly different from ours in which case we have managed to established a sophisticated system of power exchange through democratic elections in each half a decade. So, in my book, while thinking over toppling JK out of power, its nonsense to cite Libya or any Arab springs as an example of inspiration.
     
  3. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Tulia na usome tena hilo bandiko halafu uniambie kama una msimamo huu.Kama utakuwa na msimamo ule ule baada ya kuisoma tena,then nitakujibu hii.
    Lesson ipo...And i am talking a big one.
     
  4. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 4
    Trophy Points: 0
    Sasa unalazimisha nichukue msimamo wako? Basi hukuwa na haja na kuweka bandiko hapa
     
  5. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Msimamo wangu niliokulazimishia ni upi?
     
  6. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Mwita25,

    Kwenye huo upupu uliobandika hapo juu,kwanini hukugusia nahali nzuri ya uchumi waliyo nayo compare to us kama nilivyofanya kwenye first post?

    Kwanini umeshindwa kuushirikisha ubongo wako na kuona kuwa a lesson to learn is simply listening to the people?Umeshindwaje kuona kuwa sisi matamanio yetu ni tofauti na walibya ila lesson ni kwamba "wananchi wasikilizwe?"

    Ni kivipi ubongo wako umeshindwa kuelewa niliposema kwamba wao walikuwa na hiyo tyranny lakini uchumi wao mzuri na sisi tuna hiyo democratic elections unayoizungumzia na maendeleo ziro na uchumi mfu?

    Umetumia puwa kusoma?
     
  7. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 4
    Trophy Points: 0
    I know who's talking.
     
  8. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Me too,badala ya kusoma bandiko na kuelewa,wewe unabandika kiingereza chako cha dictionary kuelezea upupu!

    Sasa unataka kusema huu si upupu?Swali na hoja ya msingi ni tofauti na upupu wako kwasababu wewe hau chambui unaleta habari tu,kwamba Gaddafi alikuwa hivi ama vile.

    That issue of tyranny every one knows,ndo nyimbo za justification for war,na si maana halisi ya mjadala huu.Mjadala huu ni kuhusu lessons to be learned.

    Wewe ungesema there are no lessons to be learned based on so and so,na si kusema tu eti JK si dictator kama Gaddafi.Angalia na upande mwingine nilosema kuwa mahitaji ya wananchi wa nchi hizo mbili ni tofauti.

    Kinachowaunganisha ni mabadiliko ya duniani kwasasa na utaofauti wa kizazi hiki kipya.

    Sasa nimegundua wewe mtupu tu na kiingereza chako cha ku crame.
     
  9. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 4
    Trophy Points: 0
    This is the other side of you, isn't it?
     
  10. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Jibu hoja,issue siyo mimi and my sides.Cha msingi hapa magamba mna lessons to learn.Msidhani eti kwasababu kuna hiyo mnaita uchaguzi wa kidemokrasia.

    Wananchi wanataka maendeleo na ufisadi kufanyiwa kazi.Mnaposhindwa kutambua kinachotu connect na Libya,Tunisia na hata Egypt ni kimoja,nacho ni listen to the people, or else face the poeple's power,period.

    Wananchi wanataka mabadiliko,usiwachagulie ni mabadiliko gani ni mazuri kwao na yapi ni mabaya.Haswa kwenye upupu wenu wa amani amani....Dunia ya sasa ni uwape wanachotaka.

    Msitulazimishie hiyo mnayodai ni demokrasia,no wonder wengi walisha wahi kuiita "domokrasia"

    Maana zaidi ya domo ni kitu gani?
     
  11. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 4
    Trophy Points: 0
    Mi narudi kwenye thread ya meseji ya CM kule Chit-Chat.
     
  12. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Sikulaumu ukiondoka mkuu wangu,maana sasa hivi ni vitu gani?Honestly,kama uwezo wako wa kufikiri kabla ya kutamka ni mdogo,unategemea nikupe msaada gani na mimi si tabibu?
     
  13. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 4
    Trophy Points: 0
    Lakini na wewe ni vizuri ungekuwa unaendeleza busara zako za siku zote. Haya mambo ya kujificha kwa ID saba saba siyo mazuri sana. Kwahiyo hii ni ID yako ya tano sasa ninayoitambua.
     
  14. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Ha ha ha!Umenichekesha sana mkuu!

    Nadhani kwa vile wewe una multiple id's basi unadhani ni wote?Ninakuhakikishia mimi id yangu ni the same all the time kwasababu sina nia nyingine zaidi ya kuchangia mijadala humu,basi.

    Ningelikuwa nina interests,basi labda ningefanya hivyo.Again,tatizo liko mnaponshindwa kujuwa si kila mtu anayechangia humu kwa sababu zinazofanana.

    Zangu zipi hizo tofauti na hii?Zako zinajulikana kwasababu ya umaarufu wako humu.Kuna ile ya tamwi52,mara sijui mbwa,yani mna vituko mkuu wangu.

    Back to the topic,there is a lesson for sure,niambie why not?
     
  15. p

    politiki JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Sep 2, 2010
    Messages: 2,313
    Likes Received: 32
    Trophy Points: 145
    mushi umeshashinda mkuu kwani hoja ulizojenga hapo juu hazijibiki. binafsi sioni tofauti yeyote ya msingi ukiondoa issue ya kwamba jk amekuwa raisi kwa miaka 6 na Gadhafi alikaa miaka 42 principal they are the same here is why:

    Gadhafi ameua watu wasio kuwa na hatia na Kikwete pia ameua watu wasio na hatia tofauti yao ni idadi ya watu tu.
    Gadhafi alikandamiza demokrasia ndani ya nchi kama vile JK anavyofanya hapa kwetu kuzuia mikutano na kutumia dola kwy chaguzi.
    Gadhafi alitumia wanawe kuibia nchi na Kikwete anafanya hilo hilo kwa kumtumia Ridhwani kuibia nchi.

    SOMO KUBWA KWA TANZANIA NA AFRIKA KWA UJUMLA NI KWAMBA UKITUMIA MABAVU KUTAWALA NCHI KAMA CCM ILIVYOFANYA ARUSHA JUA
    KUWA NA WEWE KAMA YALIYOMFIKA GHADAFI YATAKUKUTA YALE YALE ULIYOWAFANYIA WENGINE UTABULUZWA KWENYE CONCRETE
    KAMA VILE ULIVYOWABURUZA WENZAKO KWENYE CONCRETE HUKO ARUSHA KWA KISINGIZIO CHA KULINDA USALAMA. MSJIONE KWA KUWA MMEZINGIRWA NA MABODY GUARD NA POLISI NDIO MKAJIONA MKO SALAMA, JIULIZENI WANAJESHI NA POLISI WOTE WALIOKUWA WANAMZINGIRA GADHAFI WALIKUWA WAPI WASIMSAIDIE BOSI WAO WAKATI ANABURUZWA KWENYE CONCRETE NDIO HAPO MTAPATA JAWABU.
     
  16. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Jun 3, 2008
    Messages: 11,544
    Likes Received: 131
    Trophy Points: 160
    Mwita25 my dear,
    CCM wakisikia kwamba unasema hivi!!!? Lol
     
  17. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Oct 22, 2011
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Messages: 16,047
    Likes Received: 38
    Trophy Points: 145
    Na ubabe ubabe tu!Huwa wanalevvwa na madaraka halafu mbongo zao zinakuwa kama na ganzi flani hivi!

    JK aliona watu waliokuwa wamemzunguka Gaddafi?Na maisha yake na wanawe ndani ya Libya?

    Na aliona dakika zake za mwisho za maisha yake?Pamoja na wanawe?Aliamini yangetokea hayo?Anaamini hayawezi kuwatokea?

    Si walishawahi kukutana wakiwa ndani ya hizo securities zao za hali ya juu na wapambe wamewazunguka na hivyo kujiona kama hawagusiki?

    Usiposikiliza wananchi ukalevywa kwa saluti unazopigiwa ukajiona Mungu mtu,basi matokeo yake kwenye dunia ya sasa ni kama haya yalowapata kina Gaddafi na Mubarak.

    Ganzi inawafanya wanashindwa kusoma alama za nyakati.

    Sasa eti mtoto wa rais kawafukuza waandihi huko kwenye hoteli Mwanza ili alale yeye.

    Mambo kama hayo ni kama nchi haiendeshwi kwa sheria na katiba.

    Watu hawajawachaguwa viongozi wa taifa masikini ili waishi kama mabwanyenye na au mabeberu.

    Kama ingewaingia akilini,basi wangegunduwa kuwa kwenye dunia ya sasa madaraka ni kitu cha kuwa nacho makini sana.

    Ni dhamana tu,unaweza ukaja ukachomolewa usiamini.
     
Loading...