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    Topic: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

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    1. #1
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      Default Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Mbele ya Jakaya Kikwete, Joyce Banda alitamka kwamba Ziwa Malawi ni la Malawi kwa asilimia 100.

      JK akatamka kwamba hajawahi kufikiri au kusogeza jeshi na yeye ndiye amiri jeshi mkuu.

      JK hata hakuwa na haja ya kusema kwamba tuiachie suala hilo kamati maana wote tunajua na hata humu JF tumeeleza sana kwamba August 20, 2012, Kamati inayojumuisha mawaziri na wataalamu itakutana huko Mzuzu, nchin Malawi kwa suala hilo.


      August 20, 2012 imefika, na ndiyo leo. Sasa, tukae tayari. Baada ya marais kutoa matamko, hali ya hewa humu imebadilika. Waliokuwa wa kwanza kukejeli ukweli kuhusu Heligoland na kuwasema wenzao wa malawi wameshindwa kabisa kumsema JK ni mmalawi.

      Sasa, membe yuleyule aliyetetewa humu JF ni lazima tutajua leo atatamka nini. Membe aliyesema kuwa mpaka uko katikati ya Ziwa tena kwa mujibu wa Heligoland treaty sasa ni lazima atasema matokeo ya mkutano huo.

      Mnaopitia thread zangu na mliosoma article ya Ansbert Ngurumo jana kwenye TANZANIA DAIMA hatuna tofauti sana. Ngurumo alishangazwa na kitendo cha kishujaa cha Joyce Banda kusema Ziwa malawi ni lote la Malawi kwa asilimia 100 na Kikwete akashindwa kusema asilimia za Tanzania kwa ziwa hilo.

      Ngurumo anauliza, kama tuna asilimia sifuri katika ziwa hilo, sasa hayo majadiliano tunaenda kujadili nini? Tutaendaje kujadili ziwa la watu?

      Ndizo hoja ambao humu mimi nimekuwa nikizitetea bila kutetereka jana, leo na kesho.

      Sasa wakati mawaziri wanakutana huko Malawi leo, tuone ni nini kinaweza kutokea kwa kujikumbusha majibu yetu kuhusu mpaka wa Malawi:

      *****
      MAY 26, 1959
      HANSARD YA BUNGE LIKIWA NA WANACHAMA WENGI WA TANU INASEMA HIVI:

      Article II of the Anglo-German agreement of 1890.
      The description of the southern boundaries of Tanganyika, which include the boundaries of Nyasaland, are as follows:
      'from the point of confluence of the Rovuma River with the Msinje River, the boundary runs westward along the parallel of that point until it reaches Lake Nyasa, thence striking northward it follows the Eastern, Northern and Western shores of Lake Nyasa to the northern bank of the mouth of the River Songwe; it ascends that river to the point of its intersection by the 33rd degree of east longitude'.


      *****
      NOVEMBER 30, 1961:

      Nyerere, then Prime Minister, set out the policies which Tanganyika would not adopt, once independent, towards international treaties concluded by Britain.

      *****
      JUNE 11, 1962:

      HANSARD YA BUNGE LA TANGANYIKA HURU HUKU RASHID KAWAWA AKIWA EXECUTIVE PRIME MINISTER INASEMA HIVI:


      In his reply the Prime Minister, currently Rashidi Kawawa, made three points:
      (i)
      that no part of Lake Nyasa fell within German East Africa;
      (ii) that since the boundary had not been altered by Britain after the assumption of the mandate,
      the Prime minister's statement of 30 November 1961 did not apply; and
      (iii) that whatever the disadvantages to Tanganyika, the Government could not contemplate negotiations with either the Central African Federal Authorities in Salisbury or with Britain. 'If there are to be negotiations on this question', he concluded,
      'they must be with the Government of Nyasaland itself and must wait the attainment by Nyasaland of full independence'.
      *****

      Hivyo, wanaojaribu kutudanganya kwamba Tanzania hatujawahi kulikataa ziwa hili kwa kusema siyo letu wajue kwamba wanaweza kufanikiwa wavivu wa kusoma na uvivu huo wa kusoma usidhaniwe kuwa ni ugonjwa ambao umeshateketeza watanzania wote.

      Kwa hiyo, hakuna heado of government wa Tanzania yaani kuanzia Nyerere, Kawawa, Mwinyi, Mkapa aliyewahi kusema tuna asilimia hata moja ya Ziwa Malawi.

      Na badala yake hapo juu tumeona Kawawa ndiye mtu pekee aliyesema tuna asilimia ngapi yaani alitamka wazi kwamba hatuna hata tone moja la maji ya ziwa hilo.

      Hivyo, ingekuwa ni ajabu kwa Kikwete kujiunga na timu ya wajinga wanaodhani tuna hata asilimia yoyote ya ziwa wakati hansard hizi hasa ile ya JUNE 11, 1962 inaonyesha Kawawa akilitangaza ziwa siyo letu kwa hata tone moja.

      Naona Kikwete amechoka kuumbuliwa na ushahidi wa hansard hasa kama ulivyotumika juzijuzi kwenye kesi ya Profesa Costa Mahalu.

      Na zaidi ya yote, tusubiri matokeo ya leo kama ambavyo huwa tunakuwa na hamu ya kusburi update za kesi za mahamamani humuhumu JF na tuone ni nani atabadili kauli humu.

      Viva ukweli, viva historian, viva wasio na uvuvu wa kusoma.
      Last edited by Nikupateje; 20th August 2012 at 10:31. Reason: Correction of date of Nyerere 1961 declaration
      Edson, KIDUNDULIMA and kaangwa like this.
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.


    2. #21
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Hilolilijulikana tangu mwanzo na inashangaza kuona viuongozi wetu wanawekeza nguvuzote katika UN Convention. Pengine ni ishara kuwa hata hao wanaotuoongozahawajaielewa vizuri hiyo Convention kwani ndio hiyo hiyo inayosema kuwa mpakautapita katikati ya water body kama hakuna any recognised agreement na ni kwelikuwa katika sakata hili, recognised agreement (kwa Tanzania na Malawi) niAnglo-Germany treaty. Kinsingi ukisoma kwa umakini hata ile article yakisomi yaJames Mayall, ambayo mmoja wetu alikipost hapa JF, utapata weaknesses nyingikatika hoja yetu. Isitoshe, kusema kuwa Tanzania haiwezi kufungwa na mikatabawalioingia wakoloni nayo haingii akilini kwani mipaka tunayoitambua sisi nanchi nyingine zote (Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, DRC, Zambia) ni ile ileilitotokana na Wakoloni.

      Nikiwammoja wa Watanzania ambao wasingeweza kufika Chuo Kikuu kama Tanzaniaisingekuwa na haki ya kutumia maji ya Ziwa Nyasa, ningependa niwasihi viongoziwetu kuwa wakazanie haki hiyo tuendelee kuipata na ikibidi tuingie makubarianomapya ya jinsi Watanzania tunavyoweza kunufaika zaidi na Ziwa Nyasa ambalo mawimbiyake hugusa nchi yetu. Naamini watatuelewa kwani Wamalawi wanategemea sanabandari yetu kupata mahitaji yao yote. Isitoshe, kitendo cha mawimbi ya ziwalile kugusa nchi yetu kinatosha kutujengea msingi wa kujadili mkataba mzuri wa jinsiWatanzania tunavyoweza kunufaika zaidi na maji na rasilimali za Ziwa Nyasa.

      Niborakwenda katika meza ya majadirinao tukiwa na hoja mbadala ili wakati tukiwa nauhakika wa kutofanikiwa katika hoja na mpaka, ni bora tukajikita katikakujadili mkataba bora zaidi ya jinsi tunavyoweza kunufaika na rasilimali zaziwa lile. Kumsema Mtanzania mwenzio eti ni Mmalawi kwasababu amesema ukweli ambaowewe binafasi usingependa uusikie, ni kupungukiwa na hoja. Mungu ibariki Afrika!Mungu ibariki Tanzania!
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    3. #22
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By jogi View Post
      mipaka iliwekwa kwa nchi za Tanzanyika na nyasalanda, ambazo hazipo tunavyoongea, ndiyo maana nchi ya tanzania na malawi zina jukumu la kuutambua utaratibu uliowekwa na UN kwamba nchi zikipakania ziwani, basi mpaka lazima uwe katikati ya ziwa. Tumemaliza.
      Ni kweli mkuu - na katika hali kama hii ya kujichanganya si lazima iwe 50%. Malawi ni nchi ndogo na masikini hata ikiwa 40%(TZ) na 60%(MLW). Na vivyo hivyo kwa ugawaji wa raslimali. Malawi kuchukua 100% ya ziwa haitaleta utulivu pengine kama mpaka ungekuwa upo hata kilomita 10 ndani ya Tanzania ingeeleweka.

      pia ieleweke Waingereza wamekuwa wakiuyumbisha mpaka kukidhi haja zao za wakati ule. Ni busara kidogo inahitajika kwa nchi hizi 2 na hasa Malawi kulimaliza hili.

      Membe na Lowasa walikuwa wanajibizana na mawaziri wenzao wa Malawi. Lakini hili la matamshi ya ma Rais ni kitendawili - JB "katangaza" vita na JK anasubiri mtu avuke "mpaka" ambao ni ndani ya maji ingawa watu watasema kwa lipi - ni kwa ajili ya wananchi upande wa ufukwe wa Tanzania ambao ziwa nyasa ni sehemu ya maisha yao
      jogi likes this.

    4. #23
      Nikupateje's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By mzamifu View Post
      hoja yako ndugu nikupateje nimeielewa vizuri. hili la kusema watu ni wavivu wa kusoma si kweli kwa wote kwani taarifa kama hizi ni za ndani sana kwani hata katika vitabu vya historia vilivyopo ni vigumu kuzipata. labda kwa kina lowasa na membe walipaswa kutafuta habari juu ya hili ndipo watoe matamko yao.
      labda ungeonyesha mustakbali wa hali hii yaani je, matokeo ya mjadala huu ni tz kusalimu amri? je, wale wakazi waishio ukingoni mwa lake Nyasaupande wa tz itakuwaje maana wengi wanapata kuishi kutokana na hilo ziwa. mimi naona hivi kuwa ikiwa kizazi chochote mwanzo wake wa kuishi ni katika mazingira fulan kama lilivo ziwa nyasa mazingira hayo yanapaswa kuwa ni mali ya kizazi hicho kwa sababu kinyume cha hivo kizazi hicho hakitaweza kuendelea kuishi. kwa mantiki hii ziwa nyasa ni lazima liwe mali ya watu wote ambao wamekuwa wakiishi kando ya ziwa hili tangu kale kabla ya mkataba wa heligoland wa 1890 hadi sasa. nini maoni yako?
      Pamoja na ukweli kwamba Ziwa lote ni la Malawi, ukweli ambao wanaouogopa wanazidi kupungua, haijawahi Malawi kukataza Tanzania isilitumie ziwa lile.

      Ni kigeugeu cha serikali ya Tanzania inapoona kuna maslahi ya kisiasa kwenye ziwa hili ndipo inakuja na hoja kama hizi. Kuna wakati ziwa lilileta mafuriko vijiji kadhaa serikali ikakataa kuwalipa fidia wananchi kwa kigezo ziwa si letu!

      Haijawahi kutokea ajali mle ziwani kama za MV Bukoba, Skagik na zingeni. Lakini meli ya Tanzania ikizama mle ndipo utakaposikia kelele nyingi za kulikana ziwa lile.
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    5. #24
      Nikupateje's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Fortune Samuel View Post
      Hilo lilijulikana tangu mwanzo na inashangaza kuona viongozi wetu wanawekeza nguvuzote katika UN Convention. Pengine ni ishara kuwa hata hao wanaotuoongoza hawajaielewa vizuri hiyo Convention kwani ndio hiyo hiyo inayosema kuwa mpakautapita katikati ya water body kama hakuna any recognised agreement na ni kwelikuwa katika sakata hili, recognised agreement (kwa Tanzania na Malawi) niAnglo-Germany treaty. Kinsingi ukisoma kwa umakini hata ile article yakisomi yaJames Mayall, ambayo mmoja wetu alikipost hapa JF, utapata weaknesses nyingikatika hoja yetu. Isitoshe, kusema kuwa Tanzania haiwezi kufungwa na mikatabawalioingia wakoloni nayo haingii akilini kwani mipaka tunayoitambua sisi nanchi nyingine zote (Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, DRC, Zambia) ni ile ileilitotokana na Wakoloni.

      Nikiwammoja wa Watanzania ambao wasingeweza kufika Chuo Kikuu kama Tanzaniaisingekuwa na haki ya kutumia maji ya Ziwa Nyasa, ningependa niwasihi viongoziwetu kuwa wakazanie haki hiyo tuendelee kuipata na ikibidi tuingie makubarianomapya ya jinsi Watanzania tunavyoweza kunufaika zaidi na Ziwa Nyasa ambalo mawimbiyake hugusa nchi yetu. Naamini watatuelewa kwani Wamalawi wanategemea sanabandari yetu kupata mahitaji yao yote. Isitoshe, kitendo cha mawimbi ya ziwalile kugusa nchi yetu kinatosha kutujengea msingi wa kujadili mkataba mzuri wa jinsiWatanzania tunavyoweza kunufaika zaidi na maji na rasilimali za Ziwa Nyasa.

      Niborakwenda katika meza ya majadirinao tukiwa na hoja mbadala ili wakati tukiwa nauhakika wa kutofanikiwa katika hoja na mpaka, ni bora tukajikita katikakujadili mkataba bora zaidi ya jinsi tunavyoweza kunufaika na rasilimali zaziwa lile. Kumsema Mtanzania mwenzio eti ni Mmalawi kwasababu amesema ukweli ambaowewe binafasi usingependa uusikie, ni kupungukiwa na hoja. Mungu ibariki Afrika!Mungu ibariki Tanzania!
      Mkuu point zako ni sahihi kwamba unakubali kwamba hatuna chetu lakini tujenge hoja kwamba walau tuwe na chetu walau mfano asilimia 2 ya ziwa hilo.

      JF ingekuwa na wengi kama wewe basi tungeisaidia nchi kimawazo kuliko wasiotafiti wanavyoropoka humu na kujiita wazalendo. Hivi uliona diplomacy gani inaongozwa na uzalendo ikashinda? Unadhani wamalawi hawana uzalendo? Hatushindanishi uzalendo bali tunashindanisha hoja. Kama huna hoja acha kufanya thread kuwa ndefu. Haya maswali siyaelekezi kwako bali kwa wataalamu wa kuropoka bila kusoma. Heri wewe umesoma paper kadhaa.

      Lakini pia nafeel kukurekebisha hapo kwenye RED. Ukitafakari matamshi ya viongozi wa Tanzania wote na hasa Membe mle bungeni, hakuna kiongozi wa Tanzania aliyetaja UN Convention of 1982 kama kigezo cha kulitetea ziwa hilo.

      Hiyo convention inatajwa na washabiki wenye jazba humu mitandaoni na ambao inawezekana ndiyo wale Kikwete aliosema ni wapinzani waliojawa na jazba. Membe na Anne Tibaijuka wanajua kabisa UN Convetion inavyosema na kamwe hawawezi kukurupuka kwa kuitumia kama wanavyoitumia baadhi humu utadhani walisoma kindergaten za kata!
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    6. #25
      Azipa's Avatar
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      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Sasa, membe yuleyule aliyetetewa humu JF ni lazima tutajua leo atatamka nini. Membe aliyesema kuwa mpaka uko katikati ya Ziwa tena kwa mujibu wa Heligoland treaty sasa ni lazima atasema matokeo ya mkutano huo.
      Punguza munkari mkuu, hakuna aliyesema Heligoland treaty iliweka mpaka katikati ya ziwa Nyasa. Membe kaja na ushahidi wake wa .....sijui 1928 kama sikosei. Sikutaka hata kuuzingatia

      Mimi ni mmoja wa wanaosema Heligoland treaty na British order in council ya 1902 inayohusu mipaka ya British central Africa kama ingetumiwa na viongozi wetu, tungeweza kupata kiasi cha umiliki wa ziwa Nyasa

      Baada ya yote JK ni kilaza halafu Kawawa naye lolote alilosema Nyerere yeye alikuwa mtu wa a-a-a-a-m-i-n-a.

      JK sidhani kama hata anajua mambo ya riparian rights. Tukishindwa kwa mikataba ya wakoloni bado hapo kwenye riparian rights tuna haki ya umiliki wa kiasi cha ziwa


    7. #26
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      ngoja nisubiri kikao kiishe..japo nilishajua upepo unakoelekea
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      I'm Naturaly Evasive..

    8. #27
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Pamoja na ukweli kwamba Ziwa lote ni la Malawi, ukweli ambao wanaouogopa wanazidi kupungua, haijawahi Malawi kukataza Tanzania isilitumie ziwa lile.

      Ni kigeugeu cha serikali ya Tanzania inapoona kuna maslahi ya kisiasa kwenye ziwa hili ndipo inakuja na hoja kama hizi. Kuna wakati ziwa lilileta mafuriko vijiji kadhaa serikali ikakataa kuwalipa fidia wananchi kwa kigezo ziwa si letu!

      Haijawahi kutokea ajali mle ziwani kama za MV Bukoba, Skagik na zingeni. Lakini meli ya Tanzania ikizama mle ndipo utakaposikia kelele nyingi za kulikana ziwa lile.
      enzi za ukoloni iliwahi tokea ajali mbaya sana ya kuzama meli Nyasa hadi wenyeji upande wa Tanganyika walitunga nyimbo kadhaa za kuomboleza za kikabila.

    9. #28
      Nikupateje's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Azipa View Post
      Punguza munkari mkuu, hakuna aliyesema Heligoland treaty iliweka mpaka katikati ya ziwa Nyasa. Membe kaja na ushahidi wake wa .....sijui 1928 kama sikosei. Sikutaka hata kuuzingatia

      Mimi ni mmoja wa wanaosema Heligoland treaty na British order in council ya 1902 inayohusu mipaka ya British central Africa kama ingetumiwa na viongozi wetu, tungeweza kupata kiasi cha umiliki wa ziwa Nyasa

      Baada ya yote JK ni kilaza halafu Kawawa naye lolote alilosema Nyerere yeye alikuwa mtu wa a-a-a-a-m-i-n-a.

      JK sidhani kama hata anajua mambo ya riparian rights. Tukishindwa kwa mikataba ya wakoloni bado hapo kwenye riparian rights tuna haki ya umiliki wa kiasi cha ziwa
      Mkuu Azipa,

      Pamoja na kuanza kwa kudhani nina jazba bado post yako naona ina kitu cha kujadili. Kitu kilichoenda shule. Kwanza unasema kwamba hakuna aliyetaja kuitetea Heligoland Treaty. Haya ni mawazo yako ingawa ni sahihi. Mawazo ya serikali yaliyosema na Membe mle Bungeni ni kwamba eti na sisi tuna sehemu katika ziwa hilo:

      {Mheshimiwa Spika,
      Tanzania kwa upande wetu tunasema kuwa mpaka wa kweli kati yetu na malawi unapita katikati ya ziwa hivyo kufanya eneo lote la Kaskazini Mashariki ya Ziwa kati Latitude digrii 9 na digrii 11 kuwa mali ya Tanzania
      kwa mujibu wa mkataba huouo wa Heligoland wa mwaka 1890---Bernard Membe, August 06, 2012
      }

      Unaona sasa dalili za watanzania kujichanganya kwenye diplomacy ya mambo ya kimkataba!

      Tuje kwenye suala lako kwamba kuna alterations zilifanyika ama 1919 ama sijui lini. Kumbuka hizo alteration hazikuwa katika treaty level. Ni kwamba waliamua kuchora ramani na hakuna mkataba wowote uliosimamia hilo. Hivyo Heligoland-treaty haijawa superceded by any further equally bilateral agreement.

      Hoja yako kuhusu Riparian Laws nimesikia wachangiaji kadhaa humu wakiitaja. Kwanza ninawapa pongezi wote mnaoitaja hii kwani inaonyesha kuwa kumbe wapo ambao wanaweza kuitetea nchi kwa kufukua vitabu na si kuropoka kama kindergaten kids.

      Hata hivyo hoja hii ya riparian inabidi tuiafanue vizuri ili wasioijua waielewe. Riparian zone ni eneo linalozungukwa na maji. Riparian laws inatoa haki kwa maeneo hayo kutumika na watu wanaolizunguka.

      Lakini tabu ya riparian law ni kwamba hatuwezi kuitumia kwa sababu kadhaa. Riparian laws ni moja ya English common law. Inakubalika baadhi ya nchi na si nchi zote. Unaposhitaki basi shitaka lako na sheria unayotumia iwe ina jurisdiction kwa yule unayemshtaki.

      Hapa ni kwamba Malawi na Tazania lazima tuwe wote na comon riparian law, kitu ambacho si sawa maana Tanzania and Malawi are two sovereign states subject to international laws.

      Kitendo cha Malawi na Tanzania kuwa subject to international laws kinaweza kuwafanya baadhi wadhani kwamba kuna kesi kama hizi ziliwahi ku-set precedence ambayo tutaweza kuitumia kushinda suala hili la Malawi.

      Wapo wanaotaja kesi ya Nigeria na Cameron nadhani. Lakini wengi wanaotaja kesi hata kama ni kwa wingin gani, basi chunguza madai yao na utagundua kuwa wanaishia kutaja lakini hawana uwezo kuingia into deep details of the particular case.

      Hakuna kesi hata moja yenye mfano wa Malawi na Tanzania. Kesi nyingi ni kwamba hakukuwa na recognised international treaty na ndipo ruling ikawa na nguvu kufanya mpaka upite katikati au la. Kama agreement ipo na kama inavyosema UN Convention of 1982 basi hakuna sababu ya vikao chilia mbali kesi.

      Malawi wanaweza kabisa kujitetea kwamba mkiwadai riparian right yaani haki ya kutumia ziwa Malawi watauliza je ni lini Malawi iliwahi kumkataza mtanzania kutumia ziwa lile. Mbona mmejenga Mbamba Bay hawakulalamika? Ni kwa sababu wanajua kwamba riparianwise mna haki kutumia ziwa Nyasa.

      Wanachokataa wamalawi kuwawekea ngumu kuchimba mafuta kwenye ziwa ambalo kwa asilimia 100 ni lao, na hawajawakaza mlitumie na nyinyi hamna hata tone moja mnapotambliwa kulimiliki ziwa hilo.
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    10. #29
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By MAKAH View Post
      enzi za ukoloni iliwahi tokea ajali mbaya sana ya kuzama meli Nyasa hadi wenyeji upande wa Tanganyika walitunga nyimbo kadhaa za kuomboleza za kikabila.
      Hapo kwenye BLUE sina hakika unasema wimbo gani lakini nikiwa mtoto enzi nasikiliza Rado Tanzania niliwahi kusikia kipindi cha Nyimbo Zetu wimbo wenye lyrics hizi:

      {Wananchi wa Ludewa tunalilia meli,Wananchi wa Ludewa tunalilia meli, Oyayeh Meli yetu kipendwa, Oyayeh imezama Makonde}

      Sijui kama niko sahihi sana maana nilikuwa nasikia na inawezekana nimekosea spellings za baadhi ya maneno.
      Lakini hata hivyo, huajua tu, uko sawa kabosa na mimi niliposema haijawahi kuzama meli. Hebu tizama post yako hapo kwenye RED ndipo ujue na mimi ninaongelea kipindi gani.

      Hata ule wimbo wa darasa la sita {Mkisi mmoja kavuka Nyasa, kaenda mbali mpaka Nyasaland, akanunua muhogo}. Nadhani ile ilikuwa ni philosophy ya hali ya juu kutufanya tuamini kwamba mpaka wa Malawi uwe wanavyofikiri weng sasa hivi
      MAKAH likes this.
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    11. #30
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      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Mkuu Azipa,
      Malawi wanaweza kabisa kujitetea kwamba mkiwadai riparian right yaani haki ya kutumia ziwa Malawi watauliza je ni lini Malawi iliwahi kumkataza mtanzania kutumia ziwa lile. Mbona mmejenga Mbamba Bay hawakulalamika? Ni kwa sababu wanajua kwamba riparianwise mna haki kutumia ziwa Nyasa.

      Wanachokataa wamalawi kuwawekea ngumu kuchimba mafuta kwenye ziwa ambalo kwa asilimia 100 ni lao, na hawajawakaza mlitumie na nyinyi hamna hata tone moja mnapotambliwa kulimiliki ziwa hilo.
      Hizo riparian rights wakizitambua Wamalawi basi maana yake HAWATARUHUSIWA HATA KUCHIMBA MAFUTA wala kujenga dam humo!

      Sijaona panaposema riparian rights ni kwa matumizi/ni applicable ndani ya nchi tu. Ukisema hivyo unapoteza hata maana ya riparian rights

      Hey, inasemekana Wamalawi wamegundua uwepo wa mafuta kwenye bonde la mto Shire hivi juzi tu hapa. Labda watatuliza njaa zao lakini kama na sisi tutaonesha msimamo

    12. #31
      idawa's Avatar
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      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Pamoja na ukweli kwamba Ziwa lote ni la Malawi, ukweli ambao wanaouogopa wanazidi kupungua, haijawahi Malawi kukataza Tanzania isilitumie ziwa lile.

      Ni kigeugeu cha serikali ya Tanzania inapoona kuna maslahi ya kisiasa kwenye ziwa hili ndipo inakuja na hoja kama hizi. Kuna wakati ziwa lilileta mafuriko vijiji kadhaa serikali ikakataa kuwalipa fidia wananchi kwa kigezo ziwa si letu!

      Haijawahi kutokea ajali mle ziwani kama za MV Bukoba, Skagik na zingeni. Lakini meli ya Tanzania ikizama mle ndipo utakaposikia kelele nyingi za kulikana ziwa lile.
      mkuu hapo nipo njia panda.!!

    13. #32
      jogi's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Kama mtoto wa darasa la tatu anaelewa kwamba makubaliano treaty na kuchora ramani ni vitu viwili tofauti, na wewe huelekei akili yako kukaribia uelewa huo, basi hakuna ajabu juzi Waziri wa Elimu aliposhambuliwa kwamba wanafunzi wanachaguliwa Sekondari wakiwa hawajui kuandika.

      Tuiombee kwa Mungu JF ili iweze kuondokana na janga hili la uvivu wa kuelewa, maana unaweza usiwe mvivu kusoma lakini ukawa mvivu wa kuelewa.
      Naona unataka wewe ueleweke bila wewe kuwaelewa wenzio, lazima uelewe, nasema lazima uelewe kuwa anayechora ramani anafungwa na ukweli, kinyume chake wahusika wanaweza kuilalamikia hiyo ramani, jambo ambalo malawi hawajalifanya, na kukaa kimya maana yake ni kukubali.
      Ni rahisi zaidi popo kuwa ndege, kuliko ndizi kuwa tunda

    14. #33
      Nikupateje's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Azipa View Post
      Hizo riparian rights wakizitambua Wamalawi basi maana yake HAWATARUHUSIWA HATA KUCHIMBA MAFUTA wala kujenga dam humo!

      Sijaona panaposema riparian rights ni kwa matumizi/ni applicable ndani ya nchi tu. Ukisema hivyo unapoteza hata maana ya riparian rights

      Hey, inasemekana Wamalawi wamegundua uwepo wa mafuta kwenye bonde la mto Shire hivi juzi tu hapa. Labda watatuliza njaa zao lakini kama na sisi tutaonesha msimamo
      Soma vizuri Riparian rights halafu compare it with international bilateral treaty uone kwamba hiyo si hoja kabisa.

      Kuhusu wamalawi kuzitambua kumbuka nao ni wasomi na rais wao aliitwa Doctor kabla ya uhuru, ingawa ni udoka kama huu wa migomo ya hapa Tanzania.
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    15. #34
      MAKAH's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Hapo kwenye BLUE sina hakika unasema wimbo gani lakini nikiwa mtoto enzi nasikiliza Rado Tanzania niliwahi kusikia kipindi cha Nyimbo Zetu wimbo wenye lyrics hizi:

      {Wananchi wa Ludewa tunalilia meli,Wananchi wa Ludewa tunalilia meli, Oyayeh Meli yetu kipendwa, Oyayeh imezama Makonde}

      Sijui kama niko sahihi sana maana nilikuwa nasikia na inawezekana nimekosea spellings za baadhi ya maneno.
      Lakini hata hivyo, huajua tu, uko sawa kabosa na mimi niliposema haijawahi kuzama meli. Hebu tizama post yako hapo kwenye RED ndipo ujue na mimi ninaongelea kipindi gani.

      Hata ule wimbo wa darasa la sita {Mkisi mmoja kavuka Nyasa, kaenda mbali mpaka Nyasaland, akanunua muhogo}. Nadhani ile ilikuwa ni philosophy ya hali ya juu kutufanya tuamini kwamba mpaka wa Malawi uwe wanavyofikiri weng sasa hivi
      Tuko pamoja mkuu. Nimegundua sote ni wadau wakuu wa ziwa Nyasa. Mungu atuepushie awape busara viongozi wetu wa nchi hizi mbili. Wamelipuuza sana eneo hili na wanakuja vuta shuka wakati kumekucha!!

    16. #35
      Anyisile Obheli's Avatar
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      Quote By jogi View Post
      mipaka iliwekwa kwa nchi za Tanzanyika na nyasalanda, ambazo hazipo tunavyoongea, ndiyo maana nchi ya tanzania na malawi zina jukumu la kuutambua utaratibu uliowekwa na UN kwamba nchi zikipakania ziwani, basi mpaka lazima uwe katikati ya ziwa. Tumemaliza.
      jamii inahitaji watu wenye mtazamo na akili kama zako siyo wale waliopo kufanya siasa na kwa mambo yasiyohitaji siasa
      jogi likes this.

    17. #36
      Nikupateje's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By jogi View Post
      Naona unataka wewe ueleweke bila wewe kuwaelewa wenzio, lazima uelewe, nasema lazima uelewe kuwa anayechora ramani anafungwa na ukweli, kinyume chake wahusika wanaweza kuilalamikia hiyo ramani, jambo ambalo malawi hawajalifanya, na kukaa kimya maana yake ni kukubali.
      Hebu peleka hizo ramani zako kwenye mazungumzo ya leo uone kama mawaziri wako hawatarudi na maneo tofauti kama Jakaya Kikwete alivyoruka mita mia alipoona joto ya jiwe ya Joyce Banda mbele ya viongozi wengine wa SADC.

      Unadhani JK hakuwasikia Membe, Sitta na Lowasa wakitamka waliyotamka? Unadhani hakuwa na uwezo wa kuyatamkia hapahapa kabla hajaenda Msumbji kwamba hakuna cha vita?

      Chezea kitu inaitwa ukweli uone cha moto. Penye ukweli confeidence hujitenga. Watu hawajadili ramani, wanajadili mikataba.
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    18. #37
      sembuli's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      hansard za bunge ni kukmbukumbu za kila siku (kumbukumbu za ukweli na za utata na za uongo uliokawia kubainika). ndio maana
      1: kauli ya liwalo na limo imo ktk hansard
      2: ripoti ya kamati ya mwakyembe ambayo leo kundi la lowasa linadai si ya kweli nayo ipo ktk hansard
      3: uongo wa mwigulu nchemba kuhusu vurugu za ndago nazo zipo hansard.
      Therefore hata kauli ya kawawa sitashangaa kuwapo hansard na japo ni uongo.

    19. #38
      Azipa's Avatar
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      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Soma vizuri Riparian rights halafu compare it with international bilateral treaty uone kwamba hiyo si hoja kabisa.

      Kuhusu wamalawi kuzitambua kumbuka nao ni wasomi na rais wao aliitwa Doctor kabla ya uhuru, ingawa ni udoka kama huu wa migomo ya hapa Tanzania.
      Riparian rights na bilateral treaties ni vitu viwili tofauti. Vinginevyo weka ushahidi hapa unaoonesha bilateral treaty inaweza kufuta riparian rights!!!!

    20. #39
      Nikupateje's Avatar
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      Default Re: Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

      Quote By Azipa View Post
      Riparian rights na bilateral treaties ni vitu viwili tofauti. Vinginevyo weka ushahidi hapa unaoonesha bilateral treaty inaweza kufuta riparian rights!!!!
      Hiyo hoja ya kufuta kwenye RED ni ya nani?
      .."ni heri Dr. Willibrod Slaa ashinde na aingie Ikulu, kuliko Tundu Lissu kushinda ubunge na kuingia Bungeni"......Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, Oct. 2010.

    21. #40
      Azipa's Avatar
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      Quote By Nikupateje View Post
      Hiyo hoja ya kufuta kwenye RED ni ya nani?
      Unaposema nisome international bilateral treaty nicompare na riparian rights kwa dhumuni gani?

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