Topic: Kinyume na Ulaghai: Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar uliridhiwa na chombo halali cha Zanzibar!

My Take:
Madai ya muda mrefu kuwa muungano haukuridhiwa na Wazanzibari hayana msingi. Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar ni halali kwani vyombo halali viliridhia pande zote za Muungano.

Uhalali wake hata hivyo hauzuii Wazanzibar kutaka kujitoa kwani hata leo chombo kile kile kilichoridhia Karume atie sahihi makubaliano ya Muungano bado kipo na kinaongozwa na Dr. Shein.

Wazanzibar wakitaka wakishawishi chombo hicho kuondoa ridhaa yake ili hatimaye Baraza la Wawakilishi lipitishe utaratibu wa Zanzibar kurudi katika status quo ya April 25, 1964.z

By Mzee Mwanakijiji

what?? sijui kama naelewa hoja yako maana inaingia kwenye matatizo zaidi! Tatizo lako ni kuwa ratification haikufanyika "IN" Zanzibar na siyo kwamba haikufanywa na chombo halali cha Wazanzibari? Kwamba, inaweza kuwa ilifanywa "Bara" na Wazanzibari lakini kwa vile haikufanyika "IN" Zanzibar basi ratification haikuwa sahihi? Au unachosema ni kuwa Zanzibar hawakuratify kabisa articles za union ili Muungano uwe kamili?

There you are Mzee Mwanakijiji, sasa tunakaribia ku sail the same boat kwenye hii issue ya ratification.
1. Kwanza lazima tukubali facts kuwa document ya ratification kuonyesha ratification ilifanyika Zanzibar ipo!. Document hiyo iliwasilishwa na Karume katika bunge la Tanganyika mara baada ya bunge la Tanganyika kuuratify rasmi muungano na ni kupitia documents hizo, Tanzania as a union of one nation ikapeleka barua UN kukalia rasmi kiti cha Zanzibar na Tanganyika!.
2. Hiyo document ratification ilipaswa kufanyikia Zanzibar kama ilivyofanyika Tanganyika, lakini hakuna kilichofanyika Zanzibar na badala yake Document iliibukia kwenye bunge la Tanganyika!.
3. Kwa vile ratification inadaiwa ilizungumzwa tuu Zanzibar kwenye kikao cha BLM na kukubaliwa kwa kauli moja!, hakuna kumbukumbu zozote za kikao hicho cha BLM kilichoridhia muungano bali kilichopo ni kumbukumbu ya kauli ya Karume akimweleza Babu ambaye pia ni mjumbe wa BLM kuwa wajumbe wote waliridhia kwa kauli moja!. Ratification hairidhiwi kwa kauli bali kwa maandishi!.
4. Tuseme kuwa ni kweli BLM walifanya kikao cha dharura na kutokana na dharura yenyewe hakuna miniti za kikao hicho, baada ya kauli ile ya kuridhia muungano, process ya ratification ilitakiwa ifuate ndipo document iende UN.
5. Swali ni kama ni kweli Zanzibar haikuridhia ile document ya Karume kuwa waliridhia, ilitoka wapi?.

Samahani jana nilitingwa sana nikashindwa kunalizia, leo na sacrifice to work overtime at the expence of family togetherness ili kuwatumikia wana jf. Hivyo baadaye leo endelea kufuatana nami kule kwenye thread rasmi ya ratification nitakujulishwa na jinsi hao wamerekani wako walivyo danganywa na jumuiya nzima ya kimataifa!. Ratification hufanywa na vyombo halali vikiwa sehemu halali!.

Pasco.

Samahani jana nilitingwa sana nikashindwa kunalizia, leo na sacrifice to work overtime at the expence of family togetherness ili kuwatumikia wana jf. Hivyo baadaye leo endelea kufuatana nami kule kwenye thread rasmi ya ratification nitakujulishwa na jinsi hao wamerekani wako walivyo danganywa na jumuiya nzima ya kimataifa!. Ratification hufanywa na vyombo halali vikiwa sehemu halali!.

Pasco.

[/QUOTE]
Pasco wa JF haishi vituko

By mgen

daah! Nimeamini! Hata shoga ukimwambia tabia hiyo ya ushoga sio nzuri, ataona nongwa!

hivyo kumbe ndio TABIA ZENU hizo??

By S.M.P2503

Mwisho ningependa kujua tu kwanini hizo documents zilikuwa approved for rease 18.11.1997... je kulikuwa na kesi au nini kilichopelekea kutolewa

Ni utratibu wa CIA ku-classfy documents na kuzi de-classfy baada ya muda fulani kupita typical 25 years. Hii inasaidia kupunguza madhara yanayoweza kutokea pale nyeti zinapotolewa hadharani mapema.

By nderingosha

@ Mwanakijiji.....sorry i didn't offer my take on the ratification matter here..(i did it in the Pasco's thread instead)...My important query to you is....why are you basing your arguments relying on the classified CIA docs??....I ask this because...after reading your attached docs above....i find that the ratification confirmation is based on hearsay (a radio announcement)and talks between Karume and Babu at that time....
After having read some material on the matter(refer my take in the Pasco's thread)...i found that (based on discussions/quotes from academicians/politicians/lawyers/journalists):

• There is no legal evidence (e.g a notice from the gazette) showing the articles of union ratification from the zanzibar side
• However, the Articles of Union are presumed to have been ratified on a corresponding statute called the Union of Zanzibar and Tanganyika Law....This was done solely to rule out any public outcry/queries from the zanzibaris..who might demand about the legality of the matter....This is just my take...

Nderingosha,

To put matters into perspective, Zanzibar of that time was ruled by a Junta cum Dictatorship, cum Revolutionary committee (bunch of few revolutionaries led by Karume snr). Zanzibar of that time did not have neither a functioning Parliament nor a Constitution to speak of. Zanzibar was governed by a Decree only (A decree is a rule of law issued by a head of state). That is , if for example, Karume snr. and his bunch of revolutionaries say/announce on the radio to JUMP, everybody in the Island should obey and ask HOW HIGH. So the ratification of the union in the Zanzibar side came and made under such unfortunate condition(s)...The 'article of the union' was ratified by Karume snr. through the presidential decree No.5 which gave him powers to enter into any agreement on behalf of his country. The 'articles of the union' was also ratified by the revolutionary council, it is believed that some members showed some reservation but Kassim Hanga manged to emotionally convinced them all to agree.

Contrary to popular belief of the Pascolians, the legality/presence of the ratified 'articles of the union' was validated/confirmed by Judge Nyalali commission in 1991.

The revolutionaries of Zanzibar.

A man who lead the revolution Field Marshal John Okello.


Mwalimu Nyerere mixing the soils samples of Tanganyika and Zanzibar to signify the everlasting/unbreakable marriage of the two.

The first union government (Babu included).

The overthrown puppet government of Shamte.

Ismail Jussa one of the neo-Shamtenians prominent anti-Union MP.

By zomba

If 83/17 was a norm in Mainland during and after Nyerere's era, the equation do not tally in Zanzibar, what would be the solution? mass invasion of crusaders.

Did you ever ask yourself why would Nyerere be a "saint"?

nimefuatilia mijadala yako humu,
sitashangaa nikisikia umejinyonga au umejilipua bro!

By mgen

nimefuatilia mijadala yako humu,
sitashangaa nikisikia umejinyonga au umejilipua bro!

Hivi nyinyi ndio mnafanya ,kunyongana na kulipuana kule.....!!!!

By bantugbro

nderingosha,

to put matters into perspective, zanzibar of that time was ruled by a junta cum dictatorship, cum revolutionary committee (bunch of few revolutionaries led by karume snr). Zanzibar of that time did not have neither a functioning parliament nor a constitution to speak of. Zanzibar was governed by a decree only (a decree is a rule of law issued by a head of state). That is , if for example, karume snr. And his bunch of revolutionaries say/announce on the radio to jump, everybody in the island should obey and ask how high. So the ratification of the union in the zanzibar side came and made under such unfortunate condition(s)...the 'article of the union' was ratified by karume snr. Through the presidential decree no.5 which gave him powers to enter into any agreement on behalf of his country. The 'articles of the union' was also ratified by the revolutionary council, it is believed that some members showed some reservation but kassim hanga manged to emotionally convinced them all to agree.

Contrary to popular belief of the pascolians, the legality/presence of the ratified 'articles of the union' was validated/confirmed by judge nyalali commission in 1991.

the revolutionaries of zanzibar.

a man who lead the revolution field marshal john okello.


mwalimu nyerere mixing the soils samples of tanganyika and zanzibar to signify the everlasting/unbreakable marriage of the two.

the first union government (babu included).

the overthrown puppet government of shamte.

ismail jussa one of the neo-shamtenians prominent anti-union mp.

thanks kanisanian

Written by Nahisi kichefuchefu nikikumbuka muungano // 08/07/2012 // Habari, Vidio // 2 Comments


Jee hii kweli Ni JAZBA kwa ‘Mzanzibari anapozungumza atafuata haki alizopewa kwenye dini yake kukidai kilicho chake na asidhulumiwe kama asivyotakiwa yeye kumdhulumu mwengine?????
Jee hii ni JAZBA kwa ‘Mzanzibari kuwazinduwa WAZANZIBARI wangine wasikubali kudhulumiwa kama kiongozi wao mtume Muhammad [S.A.W] alivyowataka Waislam [wazanzibar 99% waislam] wasikubali kudhulimiwa ikibidi hata kuupoteza uhai wao kwa ajili ya mali au hata ardhi iliyo yao??
Jee hii ni JAZBA ‘Mzanzibari kuwaelekeza wengine kuwa wasiwe tayari kuendelea kuona nchi yao/ardhi yao waliokirimiwa na muumba inaendeleya kuwa ni milki ya mwengine asiye kuwa wao bila ya wao kuwa na nguvu nayo na maamuzi ya nini wanataka kufanya juu yake??
Jee hii nayo pia ni sawa kuita JAZBA kwa viongozi wa dini waliominiwa na wengi miongoni mwetu wanapofanya kuwakumbusha waumini wao kuwa ni bora kwao kifo kuliko kuishi kwa kuiridhiya dhulma ndani yake??
Jee pia huwa ni JAZBA Mzanzibari anapowaelekeza Wazanzibari wengine watakuwa wao wamejidhulumu iwapo watabaki katika dhulma na hali ya kuwa wameitambuwa DHULMA hiyo na wanaishi ndani yake???
Jee na haitakuwa dhulma kwa Mzanzibari kusimama na kuwaambiya wale wanaodai kupingana na dhulma iliyopo miongoni mwao waache kufanya hilo eti tu kwa sababu ya amani bandia pasipo na amani ya nafsi na ya kweli moyoni mwa Wazanzibari?
AU LABDA TUAMBIZANE HASA NI IPI JAZBA TUISEMAYO HAPA AMBAYO TUNAIPIGIYA CHAPO KUWA IMECHUKUWA NAFASI KULIKO VILE TUPENDAVYO INGEKUWA??
NA CHEMA ZAIDI TUNGEAMBIZANA NI KIPI HASA KILITAKIWA KUFANYWA AMBACHO PIA HATUKUWAONA WENGINE KUKIFANYA KABLA KUWAJAZA WAZANZIBARI ILIYOITWA JAZBA??
nawasilisha karibu nitatapika kichefuchefu kishanizidi cha MUUNGANO huu!

Bonyeza vidio

http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la...ba-ifuate.html Mbona maoni hayaonyeshi hivyo. wanaokataa Tanganyika ni CCM.

watuwengi watanganyika wengi wanaosema kuwa muungano ukivunjika wazanzibar watauwana watapigana unguja na wapembaa hili halina msingi wowote sababu
zanzibar kuna dini moja kuu watu itakuwa vigumu kupigana sababu wanaunganishwa na kitu kimoja
zanzibar kuna makabila mfano alshirazi mahamumi bakhresa mazerui lyafi lakini hakuna mzanzibar yoyote yule anae jivunia kabila bali wote husema mm niu mzanzibar
zanzibar juu ya kuwa na siasa chafu watu huwa hawapigani na kuuwana bali polisi ndio hupiga watu ikiwa mchana au usiki usiku hutowa watu majumbani na kuwapiga mikwaju wengine kuwanajis
wazanzibar sasa wamejuwa adui wao anatokea wapi na nani sasa wameungana na imekuwa bolisi ni adui wao wa dhahir mbaya wa zanzibar sasa ni muungano kutumilia polisi
KWA UPANDE WA TANGANYIKA
wanachinnjana na kukatana vichwa mfano kuwa kina nasari jeshuwa
maandamano wanauwana na kutowana changoo
dini sensa ni mfano mdogo tu
nekta kunafukuta kwa hiyo mukijitowa kibanzi jichoni nyinyi muna boriti jichonii sasa wazanzibar waende tuu muungano hauna nafasi tena kwao sasa kama nyinyi munahisi wazanzibar baada ya kuvunja muungano watagombana basi mukae mukijuwa WATANGANYIKA MUTAPIGANA NA KUUWANA

hizi telex message baina ya CIA operative in Zanzibar Calluci na CIA head office ni maoni yake kuhusu hali ya utata kuhusu muungano, wao walishindikiza Tanganyika kuichukua Zanziabr kwa muungano.
sasa hizi ni telex message za mawasilano kuhusu njama nzima za kuimaliza zanzibar
sio legal documents za muungano
muungano huu uliridhiwa na Tanganyika pekee yao
zanziabr hawakufanya hivyo kimaandishi waliridhia kwa kauli tu
na uhakika wa muungano huu ni ile hati waliyo saini nyerere na karume ambayo picha yake huwa tunaiona mara nyingi
sasa mujiulize kwa nini ili hati haipo ? why why

jengine kuna picha ya kuchanganya mchanga ..kwa nini nyerere alichanganya ule mchanga peke yake? jee karume aligomea? jee alikua hataki kuwa msaliti wa kuuza nchi yake? akili ya kawaida shughuli kama ile ingekuwa marais wawili wa nchi mbili wanachanganya mchanga pamoja kuashiria mwanzo mpya na muunagano
lakini mhhh utata mtupu

By Bantugbro

Nderingosha,

To put matters into perspective, Zanzibar of that time was ruled by a Junta cum Dictatorship, cum Revolutionary committee (bunch of few revolutionaries led by Karume snr). Zanzibar of that time did not have neither a functioning Parliament nor a Constitution to speak of. Zanzibar was governed by a Decree only (A decree is a rule of law issued by a head of state). That is , if for example, Karume snr. and his bunch of revolutionaries say/announce on the radio to JUMP, everybody in the Island should obey and ask HOW HIGH. So the ratification of the union in the Zanzibar side came and made under such unfortunate condition(s)...The 'article of the union' was ratified by Karume snr. through the presidential decree No.5 which gave him powers to enter into any agreement on behalf of his country. The 'articles of the union' was also ratified by the revolutionary council, it is believed that some members showed some reservation but Kassim Hanga manged to emotionally convinced them all to agree.

Contrary to popular belief of the Pascolians, the legality/presence of the ratified 'articles of the union' was validated/confirmed by Judge Nyalali commission in 1991.

The revolutionaries of Zanzibar.

A man who lead the revolution Field Marshal John Okello.


Mwalimu Nyerere mixing the soils samples of Tanganyika and Zanzibar to signify the everlasting/unbreakable marriage of the two.

The first union government (Babu included).

The overthrown puppet government of Shamte.

Ismail Jussa one of the neo-Shamtenians prominent anti-Union MP.

kwa nini karume is standing far away from this historic event.....kwa nini yeye kama rais wa zanzibar na nyerere rais wa tanganyika wasichanganye huo mchanga pamoja?
jawabu ni kuwa hakuridhia ila hakuwa na jinsi....jeshi la tanganyika lipo zanzibar 'kulinda mapinduzi'
angekataa angeondolewa
na haya kwa nyerere sio ajabu..mnakumbuku binaisa? yusuf lule? tito okkelo ? na hata rafiki yake obote alipomrejesha mara ya pili...
karume hakuwa na jinsi hata ukimungalia kule nyuma ya hio picha unamuona alivo kosa raha